Baked Big Three

[6erWebb]

A week ago a good friend had a pretty horrible garage fire. The whole building was leveled except for a couple carcasses of fantastic project cars.

I went over to assess today and it was every bit as bad as he described. He then told me, after speaking with his insurance agent, that he was keeping nothing. The pirate in me became instantly curious and began looking around for anything of any worth. One thing specifically I had my eye on was his 70th anniversary snap on box full of tools from Snap-On, Mac, Matco, and of course a few off brand and some craftsman.

All I was able to salvage of course were things like wrenches punches and the like. Pictures are below..

I have many questions about the effects the fire had on the tools, how it effected the hardness being the greatest. Im a student in an aviation tech program and was introduced to rockwell hardness testing a while back but Im thinking this test requires a given number to measure against. However when trying to bend them by hand The smaller ones felt pretty strong (the larger thicker tools still have some of their coatings).

Id like to hear some ideas on coatings, anodizing or even plating of a sort like gold or nickel.. anyone who knows me gets the gold.

Reason behind all this trouble is that the man who allowed me to pirate his catastrophe has been my teacher for over ten years. He taught me how to work on my first truck with these very wrenches and it was almost sentimental to dig them out of the crumpled box.

To many it may seem like too much trouble to make them usable again but to me the tools are old friends.

So, please feel free to share some ideas on the plating and such and enjoy the pictures.

-Webb

 

[Steevo]

Wow, that was a hot fire!

 

[sk farmer]

while they may have sentimental worth they are really scrap iron. fires do some funky stuff to iron and i doubt anything you do to them will back to users. the finish is gone, corrosion has alreay taken a toll and depending on the how hot they wre and how they cooled they will more than likely be very soft or very brittle.

 

[hickmlg09]

Damn that must have been a pretty hot fire!!

 

[Murphy4570]

Yeah that's all junk. Those all got VERY hot to burn off the chrome plating on all of those tools. The metal is likely soft now, and will round off if used.

You can probably re harden the punches if you want by heating and dipping into oil or something, but saving any of that would honestly be a whole lot of work.

Obviously his insurance is paying for everything, so it's not like you can take all that and try and warranty any of it. tool warrantys don't cover fires.

 

[kiatech]

If it was craftsman people would be screaming warranty.

 

[Sureshot]

Try them on something and see what happens. If they fail use them for drawer and door handles, or any other creative idea you or GJ can come up with.

 

[91bronc300]

Wire wheel 'em then eBay 'em.

 

[6erWebb]

Well Ive already used some of the heavy sockets and the bigger wrenches and nothing bent or cracked...

Oh and I did get to use the big snap on brass punch and talk about solid. The fire was friday, which burnt the corrosion resistant coating off everything and of course it rained yesterday, hence the corrosion.

 

[SCscoutguy]

I actually know a guy that this happened to with his truck brand tools and the tools were still ok after the chrome loss as far as hardness. He put them into blast cabinet and then spray painted them all with black rustoleum and still uses them.

 

[6erWebb]

^^Now thats reassuring, Id love to do something funky like gold plate the mac line wrenches since I have a whole set. Just dont know what that gold would be like on the hardware surfaces.

Im taking some to school tomorrow and tempering a couple little wrenches will be on the bill. I think Il just update this thread kind of like a resto project.

 

[woody 73]

Some years back I picked up a few used tools that were cleaned up and painted, not paying to much money I started to use them and as soon as I applied a lot of torque they all snapped ; I am thankful it was only two or three tools and not a large tool lot.

 

[srmofo]

Can you get anyone to check the hardness of them with one of those little gauges?

Then just compare it to another good wrench. You'll at least have a ball park that way

 

[6erWebb]

Theres an idea, I could even buy just one, assuming the level is the same in all sizes of wrench, and check the hardness myself.

One of my coworkers at the school's hangar used to run the cnc? machine that made wrenches for snap on manufacturing. He did say something about ways to bring the hardness back, Ill find out tomorrow.

 

[PoolGuy444]

Just curious, does he know how the fire started?

 

[justanengineer]

Not sure I'd go around inquiring about plating or repairing wrenches that are technically stolen, on the internet or in reality.

 

[matt1977]

Must have been one hell of a fire for the matco wrenches to melt into a puddle! thank god for insurance.

 

[Fyrme]

Not sure I'd go around inquiring about plating or repairing wrenches that are technically stolen, on the internet or in reality.

This probably isn't true. With something like this, the insurance co. has written them off as a total loss and will be paying a demo crew to clean up the site and take it all to the dump. This guy is simply taking out the trash. Now if the home owner got a big fat check for the tools and turned around and sold everything on eBay, that might be a problem.

 

[FlatBlackBlaze]

The same thing happened to us in august,All of out tools and equipment were in a huge fire. All of our stuff will be replaced but I tried to salvage as much as i could. Evaporust,electrolysis,wire wheels,rust removers and heat temper techniques will be your friend.. trust me.

 

[Brad54]

The tool box took the brunt of the fire... and the shock of the water.
I can't say one way or the other if the fire changed the temper of the tools...and without seeing them, we can't say if the finish of them actually burned off, or if it's just very dull from the heat--heat oxidizes metal, and chrome.

I'd throw them in a vat of molasses for a week, take 'em out and see how they look. If you're really **** about it, you might try buffing them again to see if some of the finish comes back.

I'd be curious to see what temp tool steel needs to reach before it loses its temper, and then figure out what the temps were inside that box.

-Brad

 

[FlatBlackBlaze]

The tool box took the brunt of the fire... and the shock of the water.
I can't say one way or the other if the fire changed the temper of the tools...and without seeing them, we can't say if the finish of them actually burned off, or if it's just very dull from the heat--heat oxidizes metal, and chrome.

I'd throw them in a vat of molasses for a week, take 'em out and see how they look. If you're really **** about it, you might try buffing them again to see if some of the finish comes back.

I'd be curious to see what temp tool steel needs to reach before it loses its temper, and then figure out what the temps were inside that box.

-Brad

The Chrome on my wrenches and sockets were tarnished from the burnt plastic holders and the wrench racks. I was able to polish the Chrome and do some electrolysis to remove the rust feom the interior of the sockets. Clean up everything and use it till it breaks. If it does, then So what you saved em from the dump.right?

 

[6erWebb]

Not sure I'd go around inquiring about plating or repairing wrenches that are technically stolen, on the internet or in reality.

The insurance man said and I quote "Throw them away, well get you new ones."

Must have been one hell of a fire for the matco wrenches to melt into a puddle! thank god for insurance.

The wrenches themselves are still in one piece the puddle is some sort of aluminum that was lying in the box for some ungodly reason.

Just curious, does he know how the fire started?

He says to the best of his knowledge he was doing a little rust repair, grinding. He went inside to do some parts searching and by the time he smelled it it was too far gone to save alone, then of course the fire trucks couldnt find the correct driveway (we live in a rural area between hills). So the only explanation is sparks from the grinder. The place was prime though, all wood building. Gas bottles here and there for welding. He also had an office attached full of guns and ammunition..

I'd throw them in a vat of molasses for a week.
-Brad

WAT! molasses? Ive never heard of this..

I keep saying the smaller ones look worse. Ill try to get another picture for comparison but, the 29mm still has the chrome albeit a bit discolored but the 5/16 Im messing with right now seems hard to tell if it has any coating anymore.. But it sure did shine up.

 

[TwoInch]

the chrome should still be there. it will be discolored though.

 

[Engineer61]

Aluminum melts at about 950 F, so the fire got things at least that hot.
This temperature would temper most of the hardness out of the tools; maybe any impact sockets, extensions etc that are manufactured softer would still be ok. If the tools got heated more (1650 F or so for Cr-Mo, and I don't know how to tell from the info given so far) then if the water hit them they would have re-hardened and be very hard and brittle until tempered again. If the water didn't hit them, they would be as soft as they can get. Not really usable due to softness they would deform under pressure and wear quickly.

 

[CWP1616L]

Those tools are fine. In order to soften steel, the steel must be brought to 1600F and kept there for several hours. Then after that, the steel has to be brought down in temp very slowly, from 50F - 100F per hour. The only way to do that is in a controlled environment like an oven. Air cooling is too fast to anneal steel; especially steel with special alloys in it.

 

[GarageEnvy]

Wire wheel 'em then eBay 'em.

List them as rare "re-forged" limited edition series. They're collectible.

 

[N.I.]

Aluminium alloys melts anywhere between 450 and 650 degrees celcius. I would highly doubt that you reached the annealing temperature of steel which is approx. 725 degrees.

What you will have done is overaged the tempering of the tools, which results in a gradual reduction in strength.

Their reduction in strength will depend on the actual temperature they are exposed to, the duration they are exposed to it and the size of the tool.

The hex bit sockets would be more susceptible to a reduction in strength as they have less material and therefore would heat up faster.

The tools will not be brittle, but the chancess are that they will have softened slightly.

What you could do for instance, is stick a bolt in the vice and take the open end of one of the wrenches and apply a force on the end and judge how much it spreads. Then take an equivalent which hasn't been burned and apply a similar force. If there is no noticable difference in how much they spread, then they will be grand.

 

[scouting]

Just throwing a suggestion out there, but if you have an old 4 wheel drive (old enough to have two separate shifter levers on the transfer case) then large wrenches make the coolest shift levers. Can't take credit for the idea, saw it on pirate 4x4, but it looks incredibly cool. I'm actually keeping my eyes peeled for some old wrenches for the scout.

 

[shocksandstrutz]

If all else fails, build you a little display case adn mount it up on the wall. Free BIG name wall art. It'll always be a conversation piece, plus you'll be able to keep the memories of using those tools. Don't pitch them...theres always something to use them for.....coat racks...TP holder.....drawer pulls....etc

It's up to your imagination

 

[supra90turbo]

Sell them on Ebay as "chocolate" wrenches. We know it works for diamonds!

 

[andywander]

If it was me, I'd either blast or wire-wheel them, coat them with a little CLP, and use them.

If they are no good, I'd find out soon enough.

 

[Steinmetz]

One word: "carburized".

Make sure that the insurer has no issues with you taking property that is part of an insurance claim.

 

[jzt]

Similar thing happened to an acquaintance. His Snap On dealer advised him to break a few burnt tools tools every week and turn them for warranty.

 

[ev88f]

X2 on the molasses. Leave them in there for a while and let it take care of all the rust. You might find most of the chrome is still under there

 

[2oolhound]

I'm sure snap-on's tempering process is a little more sophisticated than heating cherry red and quenching in cold water. Most tempering today is extremely hitech in oil or gases under varying stringent temperature levels in a vacuum chamber. I think the tool steel process starts around 750'. It may be affordable to do a batch of select items back to tool steel grade.

Those are just too cool to throw away. Good you got to them before the scrapyard salvagers found them.

Here's a place near you:

http://www.midsouthmetallurgical.com/vacuum-heat-treating-services-tennessee.html

 

[camarotoolman]

Put oil on them and use em, you don't have anything to loose now.

 

[6erWebb]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I said earlier I worked with an ex snap on factory worker. Well I took a few wrenches and things to him today. His opinion was that the tools got effin hot but theyre fine. We basically just used them and compared them to non burnt wrenches of the same brand and size and almost no difference (save for appearance) could be found! By the way he told me the quenching process at snap on was about 400 degrees for a number of hours.

Oh and on the stolen wrenches subject, I heard today four hours after he allowed me to rummage the clean up crew was there and trashed everything. Its all at the scrap yard now.

SO, I threw two or three in the bead blaster we have at school, after reading up on nickel plating, and... well heres where Im at now.

-Webb

 

[91bronc300]

Oh and on the stolen wrenches subject, I heard today four hours after he allowed me to rummage the clean up crew was there and trashed everything. It's all at the garages of the clean up crew members now.

Those cleaned up really nice! Hope they work good for you.

 

[6erWebb]

^^Funny you say that. It was all crunched on the trailer when he got home and saw them cleaning up so I dont think they got anything. But there was a pair of SWEET landcruiser built axles I was going to be given as well. Anyways last time I was at the scrap yard they went to there was an old jeep with some really nice 38 inch bogger tires, about 2" of tread! And of course it was in the section of yard youre not allowed to buy from but the guy running the "magnet crane" said he was grabbing the tires before the day was over...

So youre right, theres probably something good at someones house tonight. Pretty sure I got all the good tools though.

 

[91bronc300]

^^Funny you say that. It was all crunched on the trailer when he got home and saw them cleaning up so I dont think they got anything. But there was a pair of SWEET landcruiser built axles I was going to be given as well. Anyways last time I was at the scrap yard they went to there was an old jeep with some really nice 38 inch bogger tires, about 2" of tread! And of course it was in the section of yard youre not allowed to buy from but the guy running the "magnet crane" said he was grabbing the tires before the day was over...

So youre right, theres probably something good at someones house tonight. Pretty sure I got all the good tools though.

You win some you lose some. Having a bunch of mac and snap on for only the price of bead blasting all of it is a pretty good day