Ball joint removal tool

[AC-WC]

Have a lower control arm that I can't release from the ball joint. Beat with 4 lb hammer w/no luck. Need to save the ball joint/seal. If you had a choice between this style-https://www.harborfreight.com/tie-rod-and-pitman-arm-puller-63684.html
or this style https://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-forged-ball-joint-separator-99849.html
which would you recommend?

 

[Walkers]

What is the vehicle?

 

[cgrutt]

I used the second one to replace front end on wife's Mercedes and son's BMW it worked surprisingly well but might tear boot on old joint. Loosen nut on top of ball joint but leave it attached, hit back of tool to get it into place put pressure on the joint. You still may need to whack side of control arm with it under tension to get it to release. Once it pops remove tool, take the nut off and it should drop right out. Note this just separates the control arm may need a separate tool to replace the ball joint. What car are you working on?

 

[AC-WC]

2012 Dodge Journey FWD.

 

[cgrutt]

Didn't watch but hopefully this helps.

 

[AC-WC]

2012 Dodge Journey FWD.

Should have explained a little better-did the RH side reasonably easy, beat a couple of times and it dropped right off. The LH is just being a pistol. Not sure how well the seal will do if I put heat on the arm-transferring the heat to the seal. Yes, used liquid wrench on it a few weeks ago and more when working on it. Original arms, 135,000, surface rust, not crusty bad. Surface cracks on the rubber joints so just wanted to do preventive maintenance before anything got bad.

 

[AC-WC]

Didn't watch but hopefully this helps.

Yeah I watched that one and I hit it so hard it was leaving marks on the old arm and still didn't come off.

 

[Wamsutta]

2012 Dodge Journey FWD.

They're saying that's a JC body code. They recommend this tool.

 

[Schurkey]

Tie Rod and Pitman Arm Puller

Amazing deals on this Tie Rod And Pitman Arm Puller at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-forged-ball-joint-separator-99849.html
which would you recommend?

Neither. Both of them are piss-poor knockoffs of the tools provided by Gearwrench, sold under multiple other brand-names such as OTC and NAPA. I got mine as part of a set from NAPA--it was part of their "loaner-tool" program. I liked it so much I told them I was keeping it. The original 2011-ish KD branding and part number (41690) were warrantied about 8 or 10 years after purchase with a NAPA-branded set, same part number. Photos are of the original, KD-branded set.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TDCCHW/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Lube the pressure screws before use.

 

[whateg01]

Why do you need to save the ball joint? This isn't a rare car. Save the headache and but a new ball joint.

 

[tak1313]

The video shows the "hit the stud" method, but did you try the "two-hammer hit the knuckle where the stud is captured" method?

I know some use the "one hammer and hit the knuckle where the stud is captured" method, but I have found it works much better using two for whatever reason. Hold one heavy hammer on one side, then strike the other side probably has something to do with a stationary mass supporting the knuckle point against a moving mass kinda thing.

 

[Kasal]

You may find a Puller Bar more useful.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

You may find a Puller Bar more useful.

You'll never break it free with one of those, but they are good for downward tension while wracking the knuckle with a hammer.

 

[tak1313]

Found a short vid of the hammer the knuckle process. This vid shows the tie rod. If you are doing the LCA, I believe you have to "unload" the knuckle by using a jack to push up against the tire/wheel/rotor a little.

https://youtu.be/LDsci-izhhc?si=_8MMbSse9syRH3FQ

 

[2ndGearRubber]

For a DIY person, without powerful air hammers, a Dodge journey ball joint would absolutely **** to replace. Those saying "just replace" probably haven't looked at the design of the knuckle. That said, if the joint is loose or compromised, safety first.

To pop the ball joint from the taper in the lower control arm, you need to be pulling the arm downward, not pushing the knuckle up. Your only resistance pushing the knuckle up is the bushings in the arm, and the strut. When pulling the arm down, you eventually bottom out the travel of the strut, meaning your knuckle can travel no lower. Place a long prybar or similar in a manor to push down on the arm. Don't need crazy force, just tension. Then whack the control arm taper with your 4lb sledge hammer.

Prying/popper tools typically will just destroy the joint if they're actually used to separate the joint on their own. Used for light tension, like the pry bar, they can be acceptable to use.

 

[Hohn]

For a DIY person, without powerful air hammers, a Dodge journey ball joint would absolutely **** to replace. Those saying "just replace" probably haven't looked at the design of the knuckle. That said, if the joint is loose or compromised, safety first.

To pop the ball joint from the taper in the lower control arm, you need to be pulling the arm downward, not pushing the knuckle up. Your only resistance pushing the knuckle up is the bushings in the arm, and the strut. When pulling the arm down, you eventually bottom out the travel of the strut, meaning your knuckle can travel no lower. Place a long prybar or similar in a manor to push down on the arm. Don't need crazy force, just tension. Then whack the control arm taper with your 4lb sledge hammer.

Prying/popper tools typically will just destroy the joint if they're actually used to separate the joint on their own. Used for light tension, like the pry bar, they can be acceptable to use.

BJs are hard to do without a "powerful air hammer" so as a DiY, I own one. The problem is controlling it! It gets extra tricky when the LCA is aluminum and much softer than the hammer's bit.

I've never done a Journey, but I'd suggest a salad bar approach-- a bit of heat, a bit of vibration, some gently prying. Vibration always seems the ultimate solution, but whacking with a hammer tends to get tiring and hurt some parts.
An air hammer applied near the joint with something to distribute the impacts (a flat steel bar) always seems to help. I've had BJs just fall apart after 20-30 seconds of air hammering.

 

[tak1313]

You'll never break it free with one of those, but they are good for downward tension while wracking the knuckle with a hammer.

I bought one of these a few years ago to put downward pressure on control arm. It's an OTC 6007, and you use it with a prybar, versus the Draper version. Because it's essentially a giant thick S hook, it stores easily in the tool chest.

The big side goes around the control arm (obviously), and the prybar goes through the small side.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I bought one of these a few years ago to put downward pressure on control arm. It's an OTC 6007, and you use it with a prybar, versus the Draper version. Because it's essentially a giant thick S hook, it stores easily in the tool chest.

The big side goes around the control arm (obviously), and the prybar goes through the small side.

Those work pretty good. I have the Astro J shaped arm thing that does something similar was well.

Usually that my preference, but I still use my otc hook too.

 

[RTM]

I bought one of these a few years ago to put downward pressure on control arm. It's an OTC 6007, and you use it with a prybar, versus the Draper version. Because it's essentially a giant thick S hook, it stores easily in the tool chest.

The big side goes around the control arm (obviously), and the prybar goes through the small side.

Dang

I tried to create one of those back in the 80s to take apart a ball joint on a Fiat 128. I didn't have anything in house rigid enough to do the job. Ended up buying a tool, took a few days to arrive.

Nice to know someone makes one, now that I don't need it.

 

[Walkers]

Surface cracks on the rubber joints so just wanted to do preventive maintenance before anything got bad.

So you are just wanting to remove the ball joints just to do what, clean them and put them back in?

 

[Hohn]

just noticed that Astro is using a class 12.9 screw on their Goliath BJ tools. I was always told as a younger engineer that 12.9 is no-no for any application where it isn't in a continuous oil bath. Hydrogen embrittlement. I wonder if @Astro_Pneumatic_Tools really feels the 12.9 is needed? A sudden screw fracture could be dangerous. That said, these tools aren't exposed to man fatigue cycles so perhaps the embrittlement potential is a non-issue.

Unsolicited design feedback: drop down to 10.9 and go up to a larger acme thread if needed.

 

[Astro_Pneumatic_Tools]

just noticed that Astro is using a class 12.9 screw on their Goliath BJ tools. I was always told as a younger engineer that 12.9 is no-no for any application where it isn't in a continuous oil bath. Hydrogen embrittlement. I wonder if @Astro_Pneumatic_Tools really feels the 12.9 is needed? A sudden screw fracture could be dangerous. That said, these tools aren't exposed to man fatigue cycles so perhaps the embrittlement potential is a non-issue.

Unsolicited design feedback: drop down to 10.9 and go up to a larger acme thread if needed.

Nah. It meets 12.9 for hardness and yield strength, it's not a 12.9 bolt off the rack. It's 100% the right part for the job, we have many years worth of R&D on these. If it were maybe 1/2" or 5/8" thread we'd worry more about fracture, but it's just not seen in 1-1/8" coarse thread.

 

[ctandc72]

If your knuckle is loose from the strut (like in that video) and it's flopping around and you just need to separate the ball joint, why not just use a pickle fork?

Me personally, if I'm that deep into a front suspension with a good bit of age / miles on it, I'm putting in ball joints while I'm in there. They are cheap and you can get the installer, if you don't have one, for free (rental) from the local auto parts store.

 

[Milton Shaw]

It makes a difference how the ball joint is loaded. Is it in tension or compression. If it is tension then a pickle fork will work. If it is compression you have to support the control arm to unload the joint and then try to get the pickle fork to break it free. I have worked on both kinds and you have to study the suspension to determine how to unload the joint.

 

[tak1313]

Dang

I tried to create one of those back in the 80s to take apart a ball joint on a Fiat 128. I didn't have anything in house rigid enough to do the job. Ended up buying a tool, took a few days to arrive.

Nice to know someone makes one, now that I don't need it.

This is Garage Journal. Need is not a factor in acquiring tools. When I got mine, I didn't need it - just wanted it "in case" so I wouldn't have to wait for it if the need actually arose (since it's not available locally).

 

[P0234]

You'll never break it free with one of those, but they are good for downward tension while wracking the knuckle with a hammer.

That's what has always worked for me, get something to pull it down with force and hit the knuckle with the hammer. I usually leave the nut on the balljoint too (just enough to catch it when it pops).

 

[Steve_P]

just noticed that Astro is using a class 12.9 screw on their Goliath BJ tools. I was always told as a younger engineer that 12.9 is no-no for any application where it isn't in a continuous oil bath. Hydrogen embrittlement. I wonder if @Astro_Pneumatic_Tools really feels the 12.9 is needed? A sudden screw fracture could be dangerous. That said, these tools aren't exposed to man fatigue cycles so perhaps the embrittlement potential is a non-issue.

Unsolicited design feedback: drop down to 10.9 and go up to a larger acme thread if needed.

Huh? Do you have a BSME? Who told you such nonsense? This is nonsensical, especially for a phosphated screw.

 

[Hohn]

Huh? Do you have a BSME? Who told you such nonsense? This is nonsensical, especially for a phosphated screw.

I’ve picked up a thing or two working as a professional ME for 15 years. Hydrogen embrittlement is a real thing in class 12.9 screws.

https://steelimage.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Hydrogen-Embrittlement-of-Grade-12.pdf
Here too
Even when used with a zinc phosphate coating, our engineering standards forbid using 12.9 where it isn’t covered by an oil bath.

I raised the question and Astro answered affirmatively so I’m satisfied with that.

But acting like I’m making stuff up and that hydrogen embrittlement of 12.9 threaded screws is “such nonsense” makes you, not me, look ignorant.

 

[Ricky Joe]

I use my trusty CG-270 puller for ball joints. I have yet to find one that could resist its charms of persuasion.

 

[Steve_P]

We all drive cars for hundreds of thousands of miles with zinc electroplated grade 8 or class 12.9 screws. And we have for 60+ years. And yet I'm betting no one here has ever had an HE fastener failure. Or know anyone that has. You have a better chance of being struck by lightning than having a screw fail from HE.

Modern (30+ years) auto factory assembly equipment in a "metric plant" is held together with almost nothing but blackened class 12.9 SHCS. I never saw one screw fail that wasn't torn out by a robot malfunction.

Consider that aircraft aren't held together with grade 5 screws because they're scared of HE. You use the class or grade of screw required, and not downgrade for fear of HE. You can do a post plate bake if it's a concern.

But suggesting to use a softer screw, in a press, isn't how things work in reality.

 

[mark-NJ]

A good old pickle fork won't work? Hard to believe.

 

[428PI]

Usually just wack the spindle with hammer right at ball joint taper will break it lose. If it doesn't you need bigger hammer or bigger arm.

 

[AC-WC]

Update-rented a puller set from the parts store. One puller was already broken Tried the separator style but couldn't get it underneath the boot Last one worked!
3 bolts but took forever to reinstall, ended up breaking my torque wrench, it was only 40 yrs old , then the ball joint threads somehow got stripped and had to rethread them. I don't use my tap and die set often but when I do it's desperate!
Last pic is the reason I replaced the lower control arms. Cracked rubber and some separation from the rubber/steel.

 

[whateg01]

Well, good job. I still don't see the reason for trying to save a ball joint if it doesn't pop easily.

 

[AC-WC]

Well, good job. I still don't see the reason for trying to save a ball joint if it doesn't pop easily.

It's not the cost of the ball joint it's the labor on the Journey. You have to take the entire brake assembly off. For me it would likely be 2-4 hrs each side.
Cgrutt posted the youtube link above.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Well, good job. I still don't see the reason for trying to save a ball joint if it doesn't pop easily.

Guess you've never done a dodge Journey front ball joint eh?

Not a very DIY friendly ball joint.

 

[kudakev615]

then the ball joint threads somehow got stripped and had to rethread them

seeing that you pressed directly against the threads on the stud of the ball joint, theres your answer. if you thread the nut back on the stud so that it sits flush and then press against that, it helps minimize the chance of damaging the threads

 

[Hohn]

Nice work, OP.