Barbed fittings and poly pipe leak help

[600SL]

I recently had a hydrant installed near my shop. I ran ~200 ft of 1" poly well pipe to the hydrant, with a T to the shop. The hydrant and T fittings were installed by the guys that did my trenching. The end at the house was left nu-connected for me to connect later. If I recall when the guys were installing the fittings for the hydrant and T, they heated the poly line with a torch toe get them in. Now it's time for me to connect the other end of the tube to the house. At my end the barbed fitting just slides into the poly tube with very little effort, no need to apply heat. I installed 2 worm clamps staggered as they did and tightened them by hand as much as I could with a nut driver but it still leaks. It does seam like if I get a 1/4" drive ratchet on the clamp I may be able to stop the leak, but I dont want to over stress the clamp. So my question is what can I be doing wrong or are there better clamps or sealants I should use. As you can see from the pictures I only have one shot to get this right as I cant cut the tubing any shorter.

 

[PCustoms]

That looks like a pex fitting, it's is not meant to go in the black poly pipe.

 

[PCustoms]

Woops, zoomed in and saw that elbow is thread x barb and not crimped to the white pipe. Not sure what that is meant for, but it's the wrong size. Maybe a pex x male pipe installed "backwards"?

Too bad the black pipe is so short coming though the wall, seems like you may want it longer....

 

[alfadan]

Should not just slide in. I don't know **** about pex fittings, but if that's a pex barb, may not be appropriate for poly pipe.

 

[rayra]

What the others have said, wrong fitting. Their torch work was likely to get it pliable enough to jam the right-sized barbed fitting in the other end.

 

[600SL]

Fitting going into the black pipe is the barbed end of this one. The threaded side goes into a FNPT to pex male adapter. Non of that is leaking only the barb into the well pipe.

Water Source 3/4 in. x 1 in. Yard Hydrant Elbow HE7501NL - The Home Depot

Water Source Yard Hydrant Elbow is designed for ground hydrant installation. Solid brass design meets federal low lead regulations.

www.homedepot.com

 

[600SL]

Should not just slide in. I don't know **** about pex fittings, but if that's a pex barb, may not be appropriate for poly pipe.

See post #6

 

[600SL]

What the others have said, wrong fitting. Their torch work was likely to get it pliable enough to jam the right-sized barbed fitting in the other end.

See post 6

 

[dogdog]

Fitting going into the black pipe is the barbed end of this one. The threaded side goes into a FNPT to pex male adapter. Non of that is leaking only the barb into the well pipe.

Water Source 3/4 in. x 1 in. Yard Hydrant Elbow HE7501NL - The Home Depot

Water Source Yard Hydrant Elbow is designed for ground hydrant installation. Solid brass design meets federal low lead regulations.

www.homedepot.com

the first Q/A on your link says

Qoes barb fit 1 inch pex or 1 inch well pipe?
by
|Jun 7, 2023
1 Answer
Answer This Question
A: No, I thought it did. Threw my box away and I'm stuck with it now.
by
|Apr 4, 2024

 

[BillK]

Try a different brand fitting. Not sure about plumbing fittings but some newer "offshore" automotive fittings are just plain made wrong and wont seal or fit properly. Maybe call the guys that ran the line for you and ask them what they use ??

 

[600SL]

Try a different brand fitting. Not sure about plumbing fittings but some newer "offshore" automotive fittings are just plain made wrong and wont seal or fit properly. Maybe call the guys that ran the line for you and ask them what they use ??

I think I will give that a try next. I know where the original fittings came from because I went down to pick them up. Same place the well pipe came from. But the fitting that is leaking came from Home Depot and was about 1/2 the price.

If that doesn't work, I am considering a clamp like these. The smallest one should be the right size for my well pipe and the description for firm hoses looks good.

 

[Bondo]

they heated the poly line with a torch toe get them in.

Ayuh,...... With all of the black poly to barb fittings I've used, the poly is heated to soften it so the clamps will tighten into/ onto the poly,....

 

[600SL]

Ayuh,...... With all of the black poly to barb fittings I've used, the poly is heated to soften it so the clamps will tighten into/ onto the poly,....

I was assuming they heated them just to get them in. So you are saying they heated them to get the hose to seal better. I can give that a try. But can you answer this. Should the fitting slip in easy, I mean there is some friction but a 8 year old kid could push it into the hose.

 

[Bondo]

I was assuming they heated them just to get them in. So you are saying they heated them to get the hose to seal better. I can give that a try. But can you answer this. Should the fitting slip in easy, I mean there is some friction but a 8 year old kid could push it into the hose.

Ayuh,..... It should take minimum pressure to push the fitting in,....

Heating it just before the clamps are tightened allows it to conform, 'n seal,....

 

[600SL]

Ayuh,..... It should take minimum pressure to push the fitting in,....

Heating it just before the clamps are tightened allows it to conform, 'n seal,....

Sound like I'm ready to just heat up and clamp. I know they used a torch but they were way out in the yard will a heat gun work?

 

[Bert_]

Poly and fittings are available in iron pipe size and also copper tube size. Make sure you're fittings and pipe are the same.

 

[Bondo]

Sound like I'm ready to just heat up and clamp. I know they used a torch but they were way out in the yard will a heat gun work?

Ayuh,..... My corded Milwaukee does the job, just fine,....

 

[BillK]

I think I will give that a try next. I know where the original fittings came from because I went down to pick them up. Same place the well pipe came from. But the fitting that is leaking came from Home Depot and was about 1/2 the price.

There you go, you get what you pay for. I dont think that type of pipe is "flexible" enough for clamps to really do the job. Go buy the correct fitting and be done with it.

 

[mikedodge]

There should be some force to the barbed fittings. It's probably not the right type.

 

[cgrutt]

With that stub being so short I'd be a bit leary of damaging it with torch. I'm not a pro but my understanding is they heat the pipe to help get the barbed fitting in not so clamp tightens sufficiently to stop a leak. There should be some effort to insert the barbed fitting you want the barbs to expand the pipe a little and cut into it (slightly) to make seal. My guess is you have the wrong fitting or it was not made to correct spec. I'd try another fitting preferably from different brand to see if it's a tighter fit before risking damaging that short stub.

Also make sure you are using the heavy duty worm clamps and if you use two reverse them so you have a gear on each side of the fitting.

 

[PCustoms]

As others have said, don't use a torch because you can't really cut this back when it doesn't work.

That's the wrong fitting, plain and simple.

Do you have any scrap of the black pipe? Take it to the store, preferably where you bought the pipe from, and get the fitting.

 

[alfadan]

The barb end just looks too short for a poly pipe fitting. Usually they are long enough to get two hose clamps side by side. Makes me wonder if pex barbs are smaller in diameter than those for poly pipe. The end may be deformed too, and they didn't leave you any slack.

A heat gun works great, I wouldn't use a torch but I'm sure guys do all the time.

 

[600SL]

New fitting on order from the same company that sold me all the other fittings. Have to have it shipped from VA so it will be a few days.

 

[PCustoms]

New fitting on order from the same company that sold me all the other fittings. Have to have it shipped from VA so it will be a few days.

You sure you have 1" poly pipe and not 1 1/4"?

 

[600SL]

The barb end just looks too short for a poly pipe fitting. Usually they are long enough to get two hose clamps side by side. Makes me wonder if pex barbs are smaller in diameter than those for poly pipe. The end may be deformed too, and they didn't leave you any slack.

A heat gun works great, I wouldn't use a torch but I'm sure guys do all the time.

The one I have really is too short for 2 hose clamps. The second clamp ends up being half off the barb. Hopefully the new one I have on order will have longer barbs. It will be a few days before I'm ready to install as it had to be shipped in from VA. I will be using a heat gun.

 

[600SL]

You sure you have 1" poly pipe and not 1 1/4"?

Hose ID is 1", OD is 1.25" +/- 0.020", OD of the fitting on the barbs is 1.020". If I had to get a 1.25" fitting in it I would need and Oxy Acetylene touch.

 

[PCustoms]

Hose ID is 1", OD is 1.25" +/- 0.020", OD of the fitting on the barbs is 1.020". If I had to get a 1.25" fitting in it I would need and Oxy Acetylene touch.

That seems to be an odd pipe size....

 

[pcmeiners]

Do you have real hose clamps as in the link? Too short, chisel out the cement. Just finished mine, which is like yours. I put a small amount of Teflon pipe dope on the barb surface, then some Teflon tape, then a thin coat of the dope on the tape. Used a real pipe clamp as linked, no leakage 120 psi. Only one of these quality bands are needed

CyOeIO | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for CyOeIO at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[600SL]

That seems to be an odd pipe size....

It's kind of oval shaped from being in the coil. Consequently the +/- 0.020"

 

[PCustoms]

It's kind of oval shaped from being in the coil. Consequently the +/- 0.020"

1" poly is listed as 1.315" OD on the link I found.

 

[cgrutt]

Looks like new fitting has enough barbs to get two clamps on it. That's what I'd do anyway. Hopefully it fits properly.

Looking back on your pic and link to Product it doesn't look like same fitting. I'm counting three barbs in pic but five on the pic in link. If it came from Home Depot it wouldn't surprise me if they had the wrong product in bin or somebody returned the wrong fitting if it was boxed. Curious how this turns out keep us posted and good luck!

 

[rlitman]

...I will be using a heat gun.

It's still easy to overdo it with a heat gun. When working with poly pipe outside, I'll fill a thermos with boiling water and dip the pipe ends in that, though that's more because I don't own a cordless heat gun than anything else.

I'm all for making the job easier, but remember that you're making a full pressure water connection INDOORS. There's a huge risk of flooding if you do this wrong.

The one I have really is too short for 2 hose clamps. The second clamp ends up being half off the barb. Hopefully the new one I have on order will have longer barbs.

Hopefully. I wouldn't trust a pressurized poly fitting with just one hose clamp. I've had issues with connections like that coming off my irrigation pump, and that's lucky to hit 40 PSI. In fact, I wouldn't trust this indoors with two worm clamps. As leary of poly as I am, I'd be using two Oetiker stepless clamps, at least 90 degrees apart. It looks like the 31.6mm size would fit (349759).

Your poly is weirdly sized, but I would see if the stainless clamps sold for 1" PEX would fit over it. They might be too tight to make this possible (I'm not sure how good your measurements are), but if you can get them to fit, that would be even better, and Oetiker style clamps made for PEX are readily available at Home Depot and such.

 

[600SL]

It's still easy to overdo it with a heat gun. When working with poly pipe outside, I'll fill a thermos with boiling water and dip the pipe ends in that, though that's more because I don't own a cordless heat gun than anything else.

I'm all for making the job easier, but remember that you're making a full pressure water connection INDOORS. There's a huge risk of flooding if you do this wrong.


Hopefully. I wouldn't trust a pressurized poly fitting with just one hose clamp. I've had issues with connections like that coming off my irrigation pump, and that's lucky to hit 40 PSI. In fact, I wouldn't trust this indoors with two worm clamps. As leary of poly as I am, I'd be using two Oetiker stepless clamps, at least 90 degrees apart. It looks like the 31.6mm size would fit (349759).

Your poly is weirdly sized, but I would see if the stainless clamps sold for 1" PEX would fit over it. They might be too tight to make this possible (I'm not sure how good your measurements are), but if you can get them to fit, that would be even better, and Oetiker style clamps made for PEX are readily available at Home Depot and such.

Exact OD measurements of the pipe range from 1.272" to 1.327" due to the oval shape of the pipe from coming off the spool. Pipe is labeled "Poly Water Pipe ASTM D2239 PE 4710 cNSF" That all I can read out of the 5" cutoff I have. I actually trust a worm clamp to carry more clamping force that the Oetiker style. Of course I have no data on that but that's my gut feel. Interesting that in the picture of the Home depot fitting they show 6 barbs. But the one I received only has 4. The new one I ordered has 7 barbs in the picture. Hopefully it will have 7 barbs when it arrives.

 

[600SL]

Looks like new fitting has enough barbs to get two clamps on it. That's what I'd do anyway. Hopefully it fits properly.

Looking back on your pic and link to Product it doesn't look like same fitting. I'm counting three barbs in pic but five on the pic in link. If it came from Home Depot it wouldn't surprise me if they had the wrong product in bin or somebody returned the wrong fitting if it was boxed. Curious how this turns out keep us posted and good luck!

Ha, Exactly I counted 6 including the one at the base but the one I got only has 4 including the base. The new one I ordered shows 7 barbs including the base. Hopefully when I receive it will look like the picture.

 

[rlitman]

Exact OD measurements of the pipe range from 1.272" to 1.327" due to the oval shape of the pipe from coming off the spool. Pipe is labeled "Poly Water Pipe ASTM D2239 PE 4710 cNSF" That all I can read out of the 5" cutoff I have. I actually trust a worm clamp to carry more clamping force that the Oetiker style. Of course I have no data on that but that's my gut feel. Interesting that in the picture of the Home depot fitting they show 6 barbs. But the one I received only has 4. The new one I ordered has 7 barbs in the picture. Hopefully it will have 7 barbs when it arrives.

Measuring the oval isn't helpful. If you have a pair of calipers, measure the wall thickness (using just the knife edge tips of your calipers), and then push in something conical to get an OD measurement of the now round end.

There are many styles of Oketiker clamps. The step style (one or two ear) like this are only good for exterior irrigation use, though are technically about equivalent to worm clamps.

The stepless style (below) have a FAR stronger clamping force than worm clamps, and don't have a dead zone under the saddle. Worm clamps aren't rated for PEX, specifically because of that dead zone. For poly, if you want a re-usable clamp, you're going to need to find a T-bolt clamp, because again, worm clamps are not appropriate.

I've had good luck with these on 1" poly:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B096TVLR2F?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[larry4406]

I’m my area, we use 3 quality hose clamps on barbed water lines like those.

Outer 2 clamps same orientation. Middle clamp opposite direction.

I can’t recall what sequence they tighten them.

 

[600SL]

I’m my area, we use 3 quality hose clamps on barbed water lines like those.

Outer 2 clamps same orientation. Middle clamp opposite direction.

I can’t recall what sequence they tighten them.

I could never get 3 clamps on my barbed fittings unless I used the narrow ones or the Oetiker style. I'm hoping the new fitting will be longer but I don't thing it will be 3 clamps longer.

 

[Nthill93]

Get some poly pipe pinch clamps like in post 35 and the tool.

 

[rayra]

weird that they'd sell the pipe and not the fitting fitting.

 

[600SL]

Looks like new fitting has enough barbs to get two clamps on it. That's what I'd do anyway. Hopefully it fits properly.

Looking back on your pic and link to Product it doesn't look like same fitting. I'm counting three barbs in pic but five on the pic in link. If it came from Home Depot it wouldn't surprise me if they had the wrong product in bin or somebody returned the wrong fitting if it was boxed. Curious how this turns out keep us posted and good luck!

Received the new fitting today. It will not go in without a fight. It will need to be heated to insert it. Funny thing is the new fitting looks just like the picture from Home Depot. I believe it is just like your say, someone returned the wrong fitting and it was but back into the wrong stock.