Basement toilet rough in

[joe_pinehill1]

We're finishing a bathroom in our basement that the builder did a three point rough-in. I had the plumber that the builder used do the 5-pt rough-in, setting the toilet flange, set shower pan, shower valve, supply lines. Question on the toilet flange , should I fill the area under the flange with mortar and place screws with nuts in mortar so nuts cure in the concrete? I think the mortar is need to give a smooth surface to tile up to the flange.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I don't know what a 3 point or 5 point roughin are, but that flange appears to be sticking up too far from the floor and it does need to be anchored by more than just being glued to the drain pipe. Will you be installing tile or some other finish floor that will take up the gap?

 

[larry4406]

Basement bath I like to have a 4” stub up for toilet with concrete poured tight to PVC.

Run finish floor tight to stub up perimeter. Flush cut stub up to top of finish floor. Use insert type closet flange which glues to inside diameter of 4”. Then drill and set closet flange bolts (I think at the day job they skip this).

 

[joe_pinehill1]

I don't know what a 3 point or 5 point roughin are, but that flange appears to be sticking up too far from the floor and it does need to be anchored by more than just being glued to the drain pipe. Will you be installing tile or some other finish floor that will take up the gap?

In my area 3 point is the waist line for Shower, toilet and sink are stubbed out. 5 point includes the water lines.

 

[joe_pinehill1]

Basement bath I like to have a 4” stub up for toilet with concrete poured tight to PVC.

Run finish floor tight to stub up perimeter. Flush cut stub up to top of finish floor. Use insert type closet flange which glues to inside diameter of 4”. Then drill and set closet flange bolts (I think at the day job they skip this).

the photo may look deceiving. The top of the flange is set for the tile we picked plus thin-set line

 

[The Cobbler]

looks like some long tapcons would bite in to the existing concrete ,then mix up some grout and fill in the voids.
Is that framed wall the back wall for the toilet? if so I would have oriented the flange 90° so the closet flanges are captive

 

[mike93lx]

the photo may look deceiving. The top of the flange is set for the tile we picked plus thin-set line

Flange should be on top of the finished floor

 

[PCustoms]

the photo may look deceiving. The top of the flange is set for the tile we picked plus thin-set line

Should have waited to glue that in...

 

[Fav Onefour]

Should have waited to glue that in...

It is amazing how often that happens.
The plumber is done so he's happy.
If the trades all got together on the finished product things would be a lot easier.
In the end we want it done right. Why not just do the sequence properly so it's easier.

 

[mike93lx]

It is amazing how often that happens.
The plumber is done so he's happy.
If the trades all got together on the finished product things would be a lot easier.
In the end we want it done right. Why not just do the sequence properly so it's easier.

Considering the wrong height was being shot for, I don't think changing the order of operations would have mattered

 

[PCustoms]

It is amazing how often that happens.
The plumber is done so he's happy.
If the trades all got together on the finished product things would be a lot easier.
In the end we want it done right. Why not just do the sequence properly so it's easier.

Assuming the plumber isn't coming back to set the toilet, he probably should have communicated with the OP better.

If he is coming back to set the toilet, he should have known better.

 

[wssix99]

This isn't a big deal. I had the same situation with a cast iron flange, so couldn't come back and glue it after the fact...

1) If the flange isn't glued, just pop it off, add the mortar back, grind as necessary and then glue the flange.

2) If the flange is glued, just put mortar underneath. Then use some sacrificial toilet mounting screws and move them back-and-forth in the flange slots to make sure those areas are clear of mortar. When dry, you can just come back with clean screws and they can slide to adjust like normal. Once the mortar is dry, I'd also add some long Tapcons through the mortar and solid concrete just to make sure everything is solid.

 

[larry4406]

Bottom of toilet flange sits on finished flooring.

RTFM.

 

[PCustoms]

Bottom of toilet flange sits on finished flooring.

RTFM.

If the toilet isn't installed, where is he supposed to do his reading?

 

[The Cobbler]

Bottom of toilet flange sits on finished flooring.

back in the days when bathroom flooring was 1/4" underlay & sheet vinyl flooring, the flange was set on the sub floor . as floors got thicker that is no longer the case. actually there's a fair bit of wiggle room on where the top of the flange sits.

 

[larry4406]

back in the days when bathroom flooring was 1/4" underlay & sheet vinyl flooring, the flange was set on the sub floor . as floors got thicker that is no longer the case. actually there's a fair bit of wiggle room on where the top of the flange sits.

Yes - double wax rings, spacer flanges, etc.

In a modern world, one sets the flange based on the spec’d floor allowance vs a guess.

 

[mike93lx]

Yes - double wax rings, spacer flanges, etc.

In a modern world, one sets the flange based on the spec’d floor allowance vs a guess.

Yeah, no reason to do anything but the right way on new work

 

[T444e]

Yes - double wax rings, spacer flanges, etc.

In a modern world, one sets the flange based on the spec’d floor allowance vs a guess.

Or leave a long stub then cut flush once the flooring is installed and use a slab collar. Don't have to worry about floor thickness.

 

[larry4406]

Or leave a long stub then cut flush once the flooring is installed and use a slab collar. Don't have to worry about floor thickness.

Post 3

 

[CraigStu]

Guys, read post 5. The flange height is set to match the chosen tile thickness.

 

[PCustoms]

Guys, read post 5. The flange height is set to match the chosen tile thickness.

I think we all read post five..

How do you set tile underneath a pre-glued flange and have everything be flush / touching?

 

[mike93lx]

Guys, read post 5. The flange height is set to match the chosen tile thickness.

We know. That is the wrong height. It should be on top, not flush

 

[larry4406]

Guys, read post 5. The flange height is set to match the chosen tile thickness.

Reread Post 5 - he writes “top of flange”

Bottom of flange sits on the finished flooring.

 

[joe_pinehill1]

I lik

This isn't a big deal. I had the same situation with a cast iron flange, so couldn't come back and glue it after the fact...

1) If the flange isn't glued, just pop it off, add the mortar back, grind as necessary and then glue the flange.

2) If the flange is glued, just put mortar underneath. Then use some sacrificial toilet mounting screws and move them back-and-forth in the flange slots to make sure those areas are clear of mortar. When dry, you can just come back with clean screws and they can slide to adjust like normal. Once the mortar is dry, I'd also add some long Tapcons through the mortar and solid concrete just to make sure everything is solid.

I like option 2. I could drop the flush head Tapcons in the flange and pour the mortar around them, and let the mortar set with Tapcons in the flange.

 

[PCustoms]

@joe_pinehill1 stupid question, have you verified that is actually glued in?

 

[joe_pinehill1]

@joe_pinehill1 stupid question, have you verified that is actually glued in?

Yes it’s glued

 

[joe_pinehill1]

If any are tracking this thread, an update. Work travel has gotten in the way of progress. I finished the shower tile last weekend. The floor is next. I was going to use Oatey's PVC spacer rings. Once my wife picks the tile this week, I'll use one or two rings to take the top of the flange about 1/4 inch from the finished surface. Pour concrete under the flange, add Tapcons to secure the flange and install the toilet.

Has anyone glued the flange extenders in place. I see videos people using silicone, maybe with an existing flange that has 10 years of wax on it, silicone is the way to go. But with new flange, I don't see any reason not to glue all together.

Im happy with the shower tile, still need to grout. I used a 4.5 inch diamond hole saw for the shower valve cut out, along with a plywood template as a jig.

 

[Codyboy]

Is there any way to cut out the glued in flange , install the tile and do it correctly?
I wouldn't want a stacked up make due solution.

The last time I had to deal with a toilet flange it had lead and bent over the top or something like that. It was a long time ago. Probably went away when lead roof jacks did. Idk.

However I'm interested in this because I'll be installing a toilet flange in the new shop soon.

The floor tile is installed and the 4" sch 40 stub is sticking out. I know I'll have to cut off the stub (i have an inside cutter) and glue in the flange.
I know there are different types of flanges and don't know which one to get or how to install it correctly. Just glue , or glue and concrete screws?

 

[mike93lx]

Is there any way to cut out the glued in flange , install the tile and do it correctly?
I wouldn't want a stacked up make due solution.

The last time I had to deal with a toilet flange it had lead and bent over the top or something like that. It was a long time ago. Probably went away when lead roof jacks did. Idk.

However I'm interested in this because I'll be installing a toilet flange in the new shop soon.

The floor tile is installed and the 4" sch 40 stub is sticking out. I know I'll have to cut off the stub (i have an inside cutter) and glue in the flange.
I know there are different types of flanges and don't know which one to get or how to install it correctly. Just glue , or glue and concrete screws?

Glue the fitting and screw down the flange.

 

[mike93lx]

Misunderstood... 1/4" above the finished floor sounds right.

 

[joe_pinehill1]

Final follow up. Tile work is finished. I used GoBoard for the shower alcove, and RedGuard on the concrete floor. All the fixtures are installed. For the toilet, I ended up using a Fernco waxless seal. I like Fernco products. This seal allows you to feel the seal is going into the flange and engaging. It had enough play to take out my out of level flange. Shower doors I sub'ed out to a local installer, $1500 for CR Lawrence Bristol hardware and 3/8 glass.

We passed Final Inspection this morning. My wife just needs to pick the vanity light, and mirror. It was a fun project.

Wax Free Toilet Seal | Fernco - US

Wax Free Toilet Seal Features A strong and flexible to sustain a positive seal Ideal for wall carriers and floor mounts Accommodates floors raised above the toilet flange by up to 3/4" Maintains a gas tight seal even when minor movement occurs Fast, easy installation for a long-term solution Spe

www.fernco.com

 

[duneslider]

I have been doing tile since 1999 and I can count on 1 hand the number of times a toilet flange had flooring go underneath it. They have always been set so they are touching the floor and are screwed down. Cut the tile around it and be done with it. Most thick wax rings will make up the difference just fine and if the flange is abnormally low because the flooring is extra thick add a spacer and call it a day.

 

[joe_pinehill1]

I have been doing tile since 1999 and I can count on 1 hand the number of times a toilet flange had flooring go underneath it. They have always been set so they are touching the floor and are screwed down. Cut the tile around it and be done with it. Most thick wax rings will make up the difference just fine and if the flange is abnormally low because the flooring is extra thick add a spacer and call it a day.

thats basically what I did. I did a dry layup of the first three courses. Determines where the tile over the flange would lay. Then made a template out of 1/4 in plywood for a 7.5 inch diamond hole saw. Cut the hole in the tile and the hole lined up perfectly.

 

[duneslider]

thats basically what I did. I did a dry layup of the first three courses. Determines where the tile over the flange would lay. Then made a template out of 1/4 in plywood for a 7.5 inch diamond hole saw. Cut the hole in the tile and the hole lined up perfectly.

Looks nice! That's big money for a diamond holesaw that size!

 

[joe_pinehill1]

Looks nice! That's big money for a diamond holesaw that size!

it wasn't expensive. I looked on Amazon, and they had an option to buy "used-like new" for $45. For one hole, I thought why not. I drilled while my wife dripped water from the hose. I didn't feel like trying free hand with a grinder and diamond wheel and crack tiles.

Its for sale! I'll probably list it on FB Marketplace for $25, and also the 4.5" I bought for the shower valve.