Bathroom remodel question.

[Keyblazer]

Our ‘90s master bath is aging like milk.
It’s white tile.
I’m planning to rip out the tile, shower stall back to what’s under it myself and refinish/resurface with travertine or similar.
Then get a new glass shower surround made to fit.
I’d like to drop the step into the shower to
The minimum.

However, when we did the kitchen counters, that were also white tile, it was all concrete and chicken wire under the tile about 1-2” thick.

Currently looks like this… excuse the mess!



The tiles on the back wall of the shower are actually loose, at the top and flex when pressed!

I’d like to drop this step to the minimum.

I was planning to leave the bath tub as it is, because it’s still in good shape.
But the tile is real thick around the top of it.
I don’t know what’s under it yet.


Any suggestions or advice?

 

[mike93lx]

Buy a big Sds max rotary hammer and a respirator.

And shut the water off before starting demo

 

[Keyblazer]

Thanks, and you got it...
I might chip out a section of that bath surround first to see what Im up against.
Any suggestions on the rotary hammer?

Also, there is no access to the plumbing for the bath tub!
I was thinking to put an access hatch in this side of the tub surround..

 

[mike93lx]

I recently did a big multi bathroom demo with tons (literally) of concrete and lathe.

My combo was a cheap jackhammer (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BX68HD7H?tag=atomicindus08-20) a cheap Sds max (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CH4D9HX4?tag=atomicindus08-20) and my Bosch bulldog sds plus (recip saw shape).

I used the jackhammer for floors, base of the shower and breaking the tub, and the Sds max for most of everything else.

Some big pry bars help too. I had a few from gutster on hand

 

[WildBill]

I would recommend against using travertine in a shower, I know its trendy and looks cool but its crazy porous and can be hard to seal/clean. I hate dealing with it and have ripped some out that was only 3-4 years old because the owners hated it.

You could probably get away with a Harbor Freight SDS max for just doing one job, and they will exchange it no problem if it breaks.

https://www.harborfreight.com/11-amp-1-916-in-sds-max-type-variable-speed-rotary-hammer-59100.html

 

[PCustoms]

Before you spend money on a rotary hammer, just hit a few tiles ( in a dry area ) with a hammer.

My bet is tile and drywall or maybe backer board. Rotary hammer would be more work then it's worth.

 

[mike93lx]

An access door for the tub plumbing would be prudent, if you are using material that isn't easily cut and patched later on

 

[Keyblazer]

Im seeing lots of people doing this Schluter system for the shower... what does everyone think?

 

[mike93lx]

Schluter makes great stuff and is my go to. It's not cheap, but it works great

Wedi is another good brand.

 

[starquestMM]

Not a fan of tile in a shower for longevity and maintenance reasons. Cultured marble panels and bottom pans seem like a much better solution. Master bathroom in current house has a cultured panels and a base plate from the 90s and they still look good. I'll I've had to do for it is new silicone.

 

[mike93lx]

Before you spend money on a rotary hammer, just hit a few tiles ( in a dry area ) with a hammer.

My bet is tile and drywall or maybe backer board. Rotary hammer would be more work then it's worth.

Even for just the floor, or peeling the tile off the wall, a rotary will be worth it. Using prybars and hammers for this is unnecessarily hard on the body, and the price of admission for a rotary is very low

 

[flat350]

Maybe it's regional thing but most drop in tubs like your's we set with the rolled lip of the tub just proud of the tile and finished off with your caulk of choice. Setting it below the tile leaves you with an area that will trap all sorts of garbage, just my opinion.

 

[Keyblazer]

I'm listening....
Keep the ideas and advice coming..

 

[acer66]

Perfect time to get a Bosch sds hammer drill that fits your budget and I would use Schluter etc.

Following since I also want to do something similar.

I will go the no shower curb route since I did that for a friend who got wheelchair bound and I myself am not getting younger at least not physically.

Floor heating for sure too.

 

[Keyblazer]

Thanks,
Planning to be out of this house in 18m, so want to do a nice clean job with no extra cost... ROI is good on bathroom, and current look is not good!

 

[acer66]

Oh, a very good deep clean, fresh caulk and paint it is then.

 

[75gmck25]

It's going to be hard to fix that shower without fixing the entire shower/tub combo, and a good looking job won't be cheap. I have some input below on using Schluter products, but it might be a moot point if you want to keep a tight budget.

Schlüter Kerdi is an excellent system to use for the floor and walls under the tile. They offer shower pans in various designs and slopes, and you can trim them down to fit just about any shower size.

If you want zero or near-zero entry, the recommendation is to notch the floor joists under the shower and recess the plywood subfloor enough so that when you add the pre-sloped shower pan and tile it will be even with the bathroom floor. If you have to cut joists quite a bit you might have to sister the joists to keep the floor rigid.

You can get a Schluter linear drain and put it near the back wall so that the water drains in that direction, but the linear drains are fancier and higher priced than a standard center drain. We decided to go with a short curb and use a center drain, so ours is not zero entry.

We also have a bathroom where we used a Kohler cast iron shower pan. It looks good, but since they are sized to replace a standard bathtub (usually 30"x60") they only come in a couple sizes. With the tiled shower (that I described above) we made the shower about 32-33" deep and 48" wide, and it is a really comfortable size. The size of the 30"x60" pan and shower is also fine, but you don't have the same elbow room, especially if you use a glass door.

 

[PCustoms]

I'm listening....
Keep the ideas and advice coming..

Scrub, fresh caulk and let the next guy demo/reno the whole thing

 

[mike93lx]

Curb less adds a lot of cost and complexity. You can do really low curbs but if you are really thinking wheelchair, it might as well be a mountain

 

[Bert_]

18 months? I can't see doing anything other than cleaning it and using it.

Maybe I'd remodel it if I didn't like it and was planning on being in the house for the next 30 years!

 

[Gozo]

I’ve done a very similar project a few years back. You’ll find LOTS of things that will need attention; more that you’d think on first (and second or third) look.
Browse through some posts on johnbridge.com forum.
On the Schluter stuff: I used lots of the membrane, pan, trim, and a few other bits of their waterproofing system. Worth the expense in my opinion. YMMV
Edit: Missed the part on the 18 months. Yeah, in that case, I’d agree with a thorough cleaning and not put too much major work into it.

 

[cgrutt]

If you want a curbless shower you'll need to either raise the entire floor or recess the shower to create the drain. Schulter makes good stuff but it's pricey. There are a ton of resources on the Schulter site that can provide ideas and/or how to videos. Their preformed pans take alot of guess work out of the process and can be trimmed to different configurations. As far as demo I'd see how easily it comes apart with hand tools before investing in an SDS Max you may be able to pull alot of it apart with much of the tiling in place if it was originally installed on cement or fiberboard. If you're building for wheelchair access read the ADA recommendations for clearances etc. You'll also need to add handrails etc.

 

[PCustoms]

18 months? I can't see doing anything other than cleaning it and using it.

Maybe I'd remodel it if I didn't like it and was planning on being in the house for the next 30 years!

Yep, to reiterate anything you do now has a very high chance of being redone by the buyer

 

[nmk_61802]

For 18 months, I’d have someone come in and paint it. I had a friend who had a painting contractor paint his shower in a 70’s house with glazed tile with some special paint the contractor suggested. It lasted 8-10 years until the drywall behind the tile gave out this year and he had it remodeled.

Doubtful you’ll get by just popping tiles off. If they come off that easy likely substrate is water damaged. Otherwise they will probably rip portions of substrate off with it.

 

[b.lucky]

As stated above, unless for wheelchair access I would not go curbless. Water WILL make it out to the rest of the floor.
Sold my house in Seattle this year. Listened to the wise advice from the agents and spent the money on fresh paint and staging. Made all the difference in the world.

 

[Max]

We used Schluter for the tile in our kitchen and two bathrooms. It worked well and looks great.

 

[dcg9381]

Not a fan of tile in a shower for longevity and maintenance reasons. Cultured marble panels and bottom pans seem like a much better solution. Master bathroom in current house has a cultured panels and a base plate from the 90s and they still look good. I'll I've had to do for it is new silicone.

If your structure is stable, tile is great. It's still a pain in the *** to install, but the tiles will be fine.

Modern epoxy grout is another big plus.

I've used slate in showers and it's worse than travertine. Took a "risk" and pre-coated the tiles in polyurea and I've had no issues. No longer flakes, looks "brighter" and it's not porous anymore.

For shower pans, I build them out of fiberglass and resin. I'll bond wood in there to create the "curbs" that I want.''

18 months though? That's a whole different equation.

 

[gahrajmahal]

Not a fan of tile in a shower for longevity and maintenance reasons. Cultured marble panels and bottom pans seem like a much better solution. Master bathroom in current house has a cultured panels and a base plate from the 90s and they still look good. I'll I've had to do for it is new silicone.

18 months? I can't see doing anything other than cleaning it and using it.

Maybe I'd remodel it if I didn't like it and was planning on being in the house for the next 30 years!

I agree with the others, clean it to sell, not replacing anything unless it’s hideous or broken, but…

If you want to do this job you will find out the lower parts of the shower where the water hits the tiles and backing might just crumble out. The upper parts will be attached like breaking out of prison. I use a pick axe to help pry the whole backing, mortar and tile off the studs in one piece. You will probably find that the floor joists and lower wall joists have rot in them and may need to be replaced or sistered with new pressure treated studs. Then I would choose solid surface panels and pan every time. The labor and material costs for tile are too high, plus the next buyer probably won’t like what you chose.

 

[bugnut]

For 18 months i'd do this.

I am a schluter fanboy it worked for me, and I would do solid stone panels no grout caulk at corners on my next bath remodel.

 

[mike93lx]

If the tiles are already loose and spongy, it will only get worse. And unless that 18 months is a hard number, it can easy turn into much longer.

I'd do the reno and enjoy it for the rest of the time I am at the house. Control the costs and get back out of it whatever you can

 

[acer66]

If the tiles are already loose and spongy, it will only get worse. And unless that 18 months is a hard number, it can easy turn into much longer.

I'd do the reno and enjoy it for the rest of the time I am at the house. Control the costs and get back out of it whatever you can

Good catch, I did not see the loose tile situation which might change my approach but that also depends on if the op’s house is on the more high end side and how hot the market is.

But I also have seen a few bathrooms like that in homes in expensive areas.
Talking to the owners it went most of the like this.
Yeah we are going to update the bathroom sometime down the road, yeah right, but we wanted the house and did not care.

Anyway loose tiles could also mean when demoing it that there will be most likely a can of worms next to a possible substantial can of whoop *** so be prepared for that.

The “curbless” wheelchair accessible shower I installed did not need any work on the framing.

Old 3 piece out new one in.

It had a very low lib just above the tiled floor and the water was handled with a foam threshold she could be rolled over.
She was washed by a caretaker so there was a lot water going a lot of places.

She never complained that the bathroom floor was getting flooded.

Good luck to the OP.

 

[Keyblazer]

When I say the tile is loose, I dont think its rot, altho I do feel there is some issues with the base.
It looks like the back wall of the shower, the tile has become detached from the backer... let me have a close look at it...

The house it in Cali, so value is there...
Wife says she wants it updated, so THAT IS THAT....

 

[manwithtools]

Wife says she wants it updated, so THAT IS THAT....

Happy spouse = happy house!

 

[mike93lx]

I waited years to do some significant renovation work on my last house that ended up getting done shortly before we sold it. As soon as the work was completed, all I could wonder is why the hell I hadn't done it sooner and been able to enjoy it.

 

[dcg9381]

Here are a few that I've done. This one is a pre-cast base shower pan. This is probably the easiest if the framing is precise about dimensions.





This was one that I had contracted for me. Pan work is the only thing particular contractor does. The construction method of building a fiberglass "pan" is pretty common around here, I've done enough fiberglass work that I was comfortable with it. Once installed, you block off the plumbing drain and fill it with water for 48 hours - 1 week to make sure it doesn't leak. I think around here it cost about $400 all in for the pan, but our labor rates are low here. His work is much more precise and pretty than mine, but it all gets covered with tile in the end.






This was my latest "remodel". I decided to do the fiberglass work myself.. This was replacing a tub with a shower and a entry low threshold. I put an angle cut on the 2x4 threshold to make sure water stays in where it drops off the glass. The 2x6 or 2x8 blocking is for a "handicap rail".



Latest one. I took a "builder grade" shower and made it fancy mid-construction. I added the shelving (all fiberglasses in). Added 3 temperature controls and 2 diverter valves for a total of 5 shower heads (one is in the ceiling). Why? 'Cause it looks fancy for the amount of cost/work involved and it was a "potential resale" issue for me. We never use more than 2 heads.

 

[Keyblazer]

Well, I guess I’m in now…
Got up and looked closely at the back wall…
Tile is detached from the cement board to probably 2/3-3/4 the way down…
I pressed on it, and I can hear grout falling down between as I flexed the tiles…


Grout is disintegrating…



So I gently pulled on it and a whole row came off.


So I guess I’m committed now.

I’m not doing anything more until after thanksgiving as we are having guests.

We already have two vanities that we were given by a friend, who bought them for a remodel they never did…
Not exactly our style but good quality, and will work..

 

[dcg9381]

That shower is screwed... Expect to replace the backerboard. Wouldn't shock me if there is damage to the framing.... I'd flag that as a big "resale issue" as there is no telling how much damage is under it. You'll be in there, so might as well do the shower valves too - hopefully not soldered in copper.

That vanity is beautiful.... Bet you end up with a fantastic bathroom after you're done.

 

[Keyblazer]

This was our guest bathroom, that we did 5 years ago...
Converted to a walk in for my aging parents to use more easily when they visited.
Before:




Demo.

 

[Keyblazer]

Then the rebuild...

 

[Keyblazer]

End result:










We love it.
So I was thinking given what I know, and the similar style of the 2x Vanities we already have, I'd go with a similar vibe...
We've had a few issues with the shower unit and sink, where the hammered copper dark finish is easy damaged by normal shower cleaning products, so that was a lesson.
I'm thinking we go with plumbed in body sprays etc...