battery powered lawnmowers

[Sumboodie]

And you do not breathe in the pollution a gas powered mower produces and there is also less noise and vibration.

Lets say i get 5 years out of the EGO before having to replace batteries. in those 5 years i would have spent on replacing belts every year.

Cost me 80 for the pto belt. $120 for oil, sparkplug and filter. plus any other maintenance i need to do. 200x5 is $1000. Plus $6 a gallon and i fill a 5gallon tank every mow of 4 acres....

new set of 6 batteries at 179 per battery $1079.00 would be my only maintenance besides sharpening the blade.

I will take my chances replacing batteries

What kind of mower do you have that a belt costs $80 and an oil change is $120? That's got to be a big diesel tractor. 5 gallons of oil at $20 a gallon and a $20 filter?

 

[dchawk81]

What kind of mower do you have that a belt costs $80 and an oil change is $120? That's got to be a big diesel tractor. 5 gallons of oil at $20 a gallon and a $20 filter?

I dunno I've been thinking about making a brush hog attachment for my semi truck.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

You've been with Toro for 26 years, stick with Toro. I couldn't be happier with my Toro 60V self propelled. And it looks like a regular gas mower, not a space ship.

ah yes, the "it better look like a truck" bit of EV trucks is strong in other equipment, too. lol. trucks are form via function. engine and radiator gotta go somewhere. skateboard design means the EV trucks "look like trucks" purely to make buyers feel good. same for battery mowers.

And you do not breathe in the pollution a gas powered mower produces and there is also less noise and vibration.

i feel like I'm getting punked every time I see someone mowing with an E-GO mower. if I'm going for a walk, I can hear a gasser before I see it. I'm within a few hundred feet before I can hear the E-GOs.

Funny how this popped up in my suggested videos last night....
I am invested in the M18 line too

they're around $1k at my local Ace.

Well, his only real complain is the lead acid batteries crapping out after a year which does not sound normal.

lead acid batteries should never exist in deep cycle applications where lifespan matters. in a UPS, they're supposed to be changed every THREE years. the only other way is if they're in a forklift and can be equalized, and their water refilled. still shouldn't go under 50% DoD.

High load, long run time………that might be hard on the batteries……….NOT hard to believe.

Kinda like the early days of battery powered tools with Nicad batteries……..they worked, but not well and the batteries were junk by today’s standards. Nickel metal were not much better.

aside from energy density, part of what killed NiCad batteries was a lack of proper charging tech. electronic controllers were expensive then. NiCad can last for thousands of cycles if managed properly. charge 'em till they're warm to the touch? maybe 500-1000. oh, and the whole cadmium thing.

If I can't discharge them beyond 50% then they are **** batteries and I have no use for that ****. That's old battery technology being used in a new high tech high priced piece of equipment. Shame on Ryobi for using that ****.

wrong tech. they should've never sold that mower with lead acid.

I've done the math for the Ryobo zero turn mower, which uses 4 sealed lead acid batteries that allow up to 3 acres cut per charge.

What I determined is that the batteries would have to last me 6 years beforing replacing them in order to break even with the cost of gas for the same 6 years. But that was well before gas prices spiked. Battery prices were probably a bit cheaper too.

If we assume $800 to replace the batteries, then I'd end up using $800 in gas in about 4 years at current pricing. And since the mower is capable of about 3 acres cut per charge, the batteries would have to be seriously degraded for me not to be able to cut my 1 acre property on a single charge.

Mowers that use Lithium batteries are obviously a different story since those batteries are much more expensive.

that 3 acres per charge is at near 100% DoD, aka battery killer usage. call it 1-1.5 acres if you want the batteries to last. another great example of the marketing department making a product look bad. kinda like someone telling you a truck gets 20MPG and tows 20k lbs. that's an OR! not AND!

Lithium is actually cheaper per usable Wh than Lead Acid.

 

[brianh]

So life states from 5 to 10 years. now they state it can last longer if the batteries are conditioned properly and fully discharged before charging. I thought it was bad for a lithium battery to fully discharge? or am i wrong?

The battery has a management system it will get to usefull discharge and cut power. They do not run flat.

 

[rick carpenter]

About 6 weeks ago I bought the Ryobi 21" self propelled and have been really happy with it. I have a sizeable drainage gulley in the front that I have to cut and the self propelled really helps. I was surprised that when you hit an area of thick grass it kicks up to another speed. The bagger does better than my Cub Cadet mower does. Batteries last a good long time to, but having 2 is nice. Got it on sale at big orange with 2 40v batteries included and my military discount too. Just wanted to throw that to the mix.....

I bought the same one a few months ago. This mower has slots onboard for two 40v 6ah batteries, but only draws off the one on the right. We have a third battery and my yard needs all three. I wish the tires were a little more aggressive though, my yard is pretty hilly.

 

[Methodical]

?????

 

[Methodical]

Yep, Its called click bait.. and most people take the bait.

They want views and replies and subs to make money.

This ain't one of them.

 

[Methodical]

He said it right up front that with enough power storage (batteries) he felt it was a decent mower and purchase. He said the motors on the blades could be better power wise but otherwise he was pleased with it. That is until the batteries degraded to the point the two acres mowing range reduced from two acres to barely a 1/2 acre.

Which renders it useless in my book unless Ryobi can convert to new battery technology.

 

[Methodical]

The EV would be a dream, if only the batteries would hold up more

The blew it trying to make a few extra bucks.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Let’s get the pricing right ???


“The EGO POWER+ 52" Z6 Zero Turn Riding Mower is a ZTR like nothing else out there. Featuring Peak Power+ technology, it combines the power of up to 6 EGO 56V ARC Lithium Batteries | the same battery technology powering all EGO products, making it the World's First Platform Compatible Rider.”

The larger EGO batteries are $550 ( $600 retail) each and the 52” mower takes 6 batteries.

the ZTR can take 6, it comes with 4, last i checked. every pair of those 12Ah batteries is 2 horsepower-hours. so 6 of them gets you 6 horsepower for an hour, or 3 horsepower for two hours, or 2 horsepower for 3 hours. i think that way of looking at it makes more sense.

So life states from 5 to 10 years. now they state it can last longer if the batteries are conditioned properly and fully discharged before charging. I thought it was bad for a lithium battery to fully discharge? or am i wrong?

either end of the extremes is "not great". But based on what we've learned from tesla (who i'd argue is the leader in battery tech/management), staying out of the top 10% is more important than staying out of the bottom 10%. E-GO seems to agree, their batteries auto-discharge if you let them sit too long. I generally charge mine right before use (or the night before) then store them at whatever they run down to. the 7.5Ah batteries I have will run my string trimmer for weeks without recharging.

The battery has a management system it will get to usefull discharge and cut power. They do not run flat.

careful - batteries generally do not have the ability to disconnect themselves from the load, the load disconnects itself from the battery. so if you build your own tool, it's on you to make your tool protect the battery. otherwise you could run it down to death.

 

[brianh]

the ZTR can take 6, it comes with 4, last i checked. every pair of those 12Ah batteries is 2 horsepower-hours. so 6 of them gets you 6 horsepower for an hour, or 3 horsepower for two hours, or 2 horsepower for 3 hours. i think that way of looking at it makes more sense.



either end of the extremes is "not great". But based on what we've learned from tesla (who i'd argue is the leader in battery tech/management), staying out of the top 10% is more important than staying out of the bottom 10%. E-GO seems to agree, their batteries auto-discharge if you let them sit too long. I generally charge mine right before use (or the night before) then store them at whatever they run down to. the 7.5Ah batteries I have will run my string trimmer for weeks without recharging.

careful - batteries generally do not have the ability to disconnect themselves from the load, the load disconnects itself from the battery. so if you build your own tool, it's on you to make your tool protect the battery. otherwise you could run it down to de

the ZTR can take 6, it comes with 4, last i checked. every pair of those 12Ah batteries is 2 horsepower-hours. so 6 of them gets you 6 horsepower for an hour, or 3 horsepower for two hours, or 2 horsepower for 3 hours. i think that way of looking at it makes more sense.



either end of the extremes is "not great". But based on what we've learned from tesla (who i'd argue is the leader in battery tech/management), staying out of the top 10% is more important than staying out of the bottom 10%. E-GO seems to agree, their batteries auto-discharge if you let them sit too long. I generally charge mine right before use (or the night before) then store them at whatever they run down to. the 7.5Ah batteries I have will run my string trimmer for weeks without recharging.

careful - batteries generally do not have the ability to disconnect themselves from the load, the load disconnects itself from the battery. so if you build your own tool, it's on you to make your tool protect the battery. otherwise you could run it down to death.

Actually most lithium battery packs do have power management. Maybe some no name e bay or Amazon stuff do not. I have built my own packs For projects and used readily available bms to protect from over discharge.

 

[jshillin]

I've had the EGO self propelled with the 7.5AH battery for over a year now. I got it on sale for a good price and have no regrets at all. I use it to trim areas in my lawn that my ZT won't get to and an area inside of a fence for one of the other lawns I mow.

 

[CSRPenFab]

Damn you EGO! I saw this new stripe roller "coming soon" on ACME. Now you can get those MLB stadium like lawn stripes in your front yard! I may get this just because I've got a few OCD Lawn ayeholes on my street. They'd be "green" with envy when I do the front yard in a double tartan pattern!

 

[gmcgeo]

Damn you EGO! I saw this new stripe roller "coming soon" on ACME. Now you can get those MLB stadium like lawn stripes in your front yard! I may get this just because I've got a few OCD Lawn ayeholes on my street. They'd be "green" with envy when I do the front yard in a double tartan pattern!

they make these for all mowers, and universal kits too.

 

[andyvh1959]

Just ask Wilie Coyote about his experiences with ACME products.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Actually most lithium battery packs do have power management. Maybe some no name e bay or Amazon stuff do not. I have built my own packs For projects and used readily available bms to protect from over discharge.

i'm not saying there's no BMS on-board, but that there's no relay in the pack, they rely on the tool to not draw power when instructed.

 

[CSRPenFab]

they make these for all mowers, and universal kits too.

Yes, I am aware of that. I'd been looking at one from Big League Lawns, but it ruined the folding/stow feature of the EGO. I like how in 5 seconds I can fold the handle and store the mower upright in a small footprint in my shed. The roller from EGO looks like it's easy on/off vs. bolt on like the others.

 

[gmcgeo]

Yes, I am aware of that. I'd been looking at one from Big League Lawns, but it ruined the folding/stow feature of the EGO. I like how in 5 seconds I can fold the handle and store the mower upright in a small footprint in my shed. The roller from EGO looks like it's easy on/off vs. bolt on like the others.

Got ya.

 

[brianh]

i'm not saying there's no BMS on-board, but that there's no relay in the pack, they rely on the tool to not draw power when instructed.

But there is, all my ryobi packs and makita cut power along with the BMS that I have bought for my own battery packs. If manufactures did not do that the older tools that do not have cutouts but still can fit a newer battery would be killing them all the time. Next time a tool shuts down take a voltmeter to the battery output.

 

[andyvh1959]

The 18v batteries for my Ryobi definitely have BMS on the control boards. I had three Ryobi batteries that suddenly would not charge anymore. So I drilled some strategic holes through the cases to access the positive and negative side of the battery pack. Used my variable power supply to apply a direct 20v "jump" to the battery pack to trick it back into accepting the charger input. They've all been working fine since then. Instead of spending more $$ to buy more batteries and scrap the old ones I spent less than $40 on a power supply and revived all the batteries.

 

[brianh]

The 18v batteries for my Ryobi definitely have BMS on the control boards. I had three Ryobi batteries that suddenly would not charge anymore. So I drilled some strategic holes through the cases to access the positive and negative side of the battery pack. Used my variable power supply to apply a direct 20v "jump" to the battery pack to trick it back into accepting the charger input. They've all been working fine since then. Instead of spending more $$ to buy more batteries and scrap the old ones I spent less than $40 on a power supply and revived all the batteries.

Good idea I will try that on the next one that will not take a charge anymore.

 

[acer66]

The 18v batteries for my Ryobi definitely have BMS on the control boards. I had three Ryobi batteries that suddenly would not charge anymore. So I drilled some strategic holes through the cases to access the positive and negative side of the battery pack. Used my variable power supply to apply a direct 20v "jump" to the battery pack to trick it back into accepting the charger input. They've all been working fine since then. Instead of spending more $$ to buy more batteries and scrap the old ones I spent less than $40 on a power supply and revived all the batteries.

Can you elaborate a bit more on that please?

 

[u3b3rg33k]

But there is, all my ryobi packs and makita cut power along with the BMS that I have bought for my own battery packs. If manufactures did not do that the older tools that do not have cutouts but still can fit a newer battery would be killing them all the time. Next time a tool shuts down take a voltmeter to the battery output.

today at work I pulled the trigger on my M18 fuel hydro hex driver. the lights came on, but the tool did not move. I hit the battery button, and it flashed the 0-25% bar.

i'm trying to think of what kind of switch you could put in the battery that wouldn't have enough voltage drop to need a heatsink/substantial amount of cooling/wouldn't run down the battery AND passes high amps. not sure what it is. an my M18 leaf blower will kill a 12.0Ah battery in <15 min which is something like 55 amps, and all the SSRs I have in the 30A+ range have massive heatsinks. most transistors have a voltage drop just shy of a volt, which adds up to heat.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm not sure what it is.

 

[Kezorm]

most transistors have a voltage drop just shy of a volt, which adds up to heat.

This could be the case with a BJT, but they aren't used in motor control. For low voltage, high current stuff like this, MOSFETs are used. MOSFETs behave like resistor when on, they don't have saturation voltage like BJT. On resistances can be in the single digit milliohms. Yes, this still can amount to significant power dissipation at high current, but manageable without massive heatsinks.

 

[Max]

This could be the case with a BJT, but they aren't used in motor control. For low voltage, high current stuff like this, MOSFETs are used. MOSFETs behave like resistor when on, they don't have saturation voltage like BJT. On resistances can be in the single digit milliohms. Yes, this still can amount to significant power dissipation at high current, but manageable without massive heatsinks.

Absolutely correct!

 

[u3b3rg33k]

This could be the case with a BJT, but they aren't used in motor control. For low voltage, high current stuff like this, MOSFETs are used. MOSFETs behave like resistor when on, they don't have saturation voltage like BJT. On resistances can be in the single digit milliohms. Yes, this still can amount to significant power dissipation at high current, but manageable without massive heatsinks.

in the pictures i've seen of the M18 battery boards, there's no mosfets big enough to switch full pack current, nevermind having them sit there driven on for months on end. I did find anecdotal evidence that if you run the batteries "flat", if they are charged not on a communicating charger, the BMS will not reset to a state that allows the tools to operate off them. that requires momentarily connecting them to the charger for it to communicate with the BMS.

 

[White Shadow]

that 3 acres per charge is at near 100% DoD, aka battery killer usage. call it 1-1.5 acres if you want the batteries to last. another great example of the marketing department making a product look bad. kinda like someone telling you a truck gets 20MPG and tows 20k lbs. that's an OR! not AND!

Your math if flawed. Even if you account for an allowable 80% DoD, then we're talking amost 2.5 acres of actual cutting on fully charged batteries. With my 1.1 acre property, there's about 35,000 sq.ft. of grass to cut. That said, I'm quite sure that the original lead acid batteries wouldn't degrade to the point that I couldn't complete a cut on my yard on a single charge for at least 10 years, at which point the batteries would most likely be done with their useful life anyway.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Your math if flawed. Even if you account for an allowable 80% DoD, then we're talking amost 2.5 acres of actual cutting on fully charged batteries. With my 1.1 acre property, there's about 35,000 sq.ft. of grass to cut. That said, I'm quite sure that the original lead acid batteries wouldn't degrade to the point that I couldn't complete a cut on my yard on a single charge for at least 10 years, at which point the batteries would most likely be done with their useful life anyway.

DoD on lead acid is 50% tops if you want a battery to last. maybe 20% for SLA. 80% DoD is li-ion numbers.

 

[White Shadow]

DoD on lead acid is 50% tops if you want a battery to last. maybe 20% for SLA. 80% DoD is li-ion numbers.

Tell that to Optima or Odyssey....or any other AGM battery makers for that matter.

"What is the DoD of AGM battery?


80%

While a popular choice for deep cycling, as an AGM battery has a depth of discharge (DoD) of 80% versus a standard flooded battery which has a DoD of 50%, it is also a popular choice for starter batteries. This is because it has low internal resistance and can provide high current loads quickly."

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Tell that to Optima or Odyssey....or any other AGM battery makers for that matter.

"What is the DoD of AGM battery?


80%

While a popular choice for deep cycling, as an AGM battery has a depth of discharge (DoD) of 80% versus a standard flooded battery which has a DoD of 50%, it is also a popular choice for starter batteries. This is because it has low internal resistance and can provide high current loads quickly."

but at at substantially lower cycle life at 80% DoD than at 50% DoD. there's no free lunch here.

 

[mdim]

Been really happy with my Ego mower. Their chainsaws are hot garbage (blew up 2 of them in 10 minutes) but the rest of their tools, including the mower have been really good.

 

[White Shadow]

but at at substantially lower cycle life at 80% DoD than at 50% DoD. there's no free lunch here.

Disagree. They are designed to deep cycle. And besides, even if we went with your 50%, it wouldn't be an issue for anyone with a property like mine. I'd need less than 1/3 of the pack to cut my lawn every week.

And common sense should obviously tell us that anyone with a large lawn isn't going to use an electric zero turn to cut his lawn.....at least not a consumer grade zero turn. There are commercial grade electric mowers, but they are big $$$$

 

[67CarGuy]

I've got a Ryobi 40V push mower, used it for the last 4 years or so. My previous lawn was a 15 minute job, barely made a dent in the battery. Now I've got a larger yard, takes all of a 2.6Ah and some/most of a 5Ah battery to cut. But no complaints, really - although for some reason the 'fresh cut grass' smell just isn't as strong as with a gas mower...

While I prefer a walk-behind over a push mower, I can use the exercise, and nobody is making me run, so I'll keep with it until I get a bigger yard with the next house...

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Disagree. They are designed to deep cycle. And besides, even if we went with your 50%, it wouldn't be an issue for anyone with a property like mine. I'd need less than 1/3 of the pack to cut my lawn every week.

And common sense should obviously tell us that anyone with a large lawn isn't going to use an electric zero turn to cut his lawn.....at least not a consumer grade zero turn. There are commercial grade electric mowers, but they are big $$$$

AGM still has lower cycle life at 80% DoD than 50%. it WILL shorten their life. it's not about "design", it's a lead acid chemistry thing. sure, you can put in thicker plates ($$$) and more water, but then you're looking at a forklift battery you can equalize and water. AGM is not that. AGM cannot be watered by joe homeowner, and equalizing/desulfating destroys them by venting the water.

 

[jrsavoie]

What kind of mower do you have that a belt costs $80 and an oil change is $120? That's got to be a big diesel tractor. 5 gallons of oil at $20 a gallon and a $20 filter?

A lot of OEM belts are that expensive depending on where you buy them. Some are worth the money

 

[jrsavoie]

The 18v batteries for my Ryobi definitely have BMS on the control boards. I had three Ryobi batteries that suddenly would not charge anymore. So I drilled some strategic holes through the cases to access the positive and negative side of the battery pack. Used my variable power supply to apply a direct 20v "jump" to the battery pack to trick it back into accepting the charger input. They've all been working fine since then. Instead of spending more $$ to buy more batteries and scrap the old ones I spent less than $40 on a power supply and revived all the batteries.

Do you have DeWalt batteries.
I have a new 20 volt or flex volt battery here that never worked or only worked once or twice. I would send it to you if you wanted it.

Otherwise we are taking it to Lowes for recycling

 

[White Shadow]

AGM still has lower cycle life at 80% DoD than 50%. it WILL shorten their life. it's not about "design", it's a lead acid chemistry thing. sure, you can put in thicker plates ($$$) and more water, but then you're looking at a forklift battery you can equalize and water. AGM is not that. AGM cannot be watered by joe homeowner, and equalizing/desulfating destroys them by venting the water.

Disagree. I have a CTEK smart charger that had a desulfation mode for AGM batteries. I've used it on some older batteries and it actually did a good job.

And of course life cycle changes with deeper DoD, nobody is debating that. The fact remains that a one-acre yard (pretty typical across much of the country) or smaller will be absolutely no problem whatsoever for an electric zero turn mower, even as far as battery life. Again, my lawn can be cut using 1/3 of the pack's capacity. Like I said, no problem whatsoever.

 

[andyvh1959]

Do you have DeWalt batteries.
I have a new 20 volt or flex volt battery here that never worked or only worked once or twice. I would send it to you if you wanted it.

Otherwise we are taking it to Lowes for recycling

There is an adapter to use the Dewalt battery in the Ryobi products. So I'm game for it.

 

[andyvh1959]

Can you elaborate a bit more on that please?

Just look up jumping a Ryobi 18v battery on Youtube, easy to find the instructions to drill a few holes in the battery to access each pole of the battery pack.

I drilled the holes, got access to the positive and negative poles, then applied 20v from my power supply to get the battery pack charged up past the minimum sensed voltage to get the charger to output to the battery pack through the normal contacts. All the batteries are working again.

 

[jrsavoie]

There is an adapter to use the Dewalt battery in the Ryobi products. So I'm game for it.

Are you willing to pay shipping? Or would you happen to be anywhere between Indianapolis and Rockford?

Message me with your address. And we can work something out.