The test was done cutting the shank of the drill. Quality drills will have the shank tempered much softer than the cutting edge so that a chuck can bite into it. If the shank was as hard as the cutting edge then it'd almost certainly be harder than the chuck jaws and the chuck would wear out very quickly resulting in more and more spun drills. If you've ever had to take a file to the shank of a drill to remove a burr you'll have noticed that it doesn't feel like hardened tool steel despite the cutting edges being upwards of 65 Rockwell C.
Best dikes competition
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RoundedNut
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Yep, this was a reasonable test. Cutters like the heavy duty ones like the one PF tested (except for the Milwaukee) are meant to cut nails screws, etc. up to piano wire. They don't cut copper cleanly.
Pic below is a Tsunoda cutter with narrower, mirror honed bevels that I used for copper and nothing harder.
I have even narrower, flush beveled cutters for plastic, eg zip ties. Got some CS Osborne upholstery pliers on a lark because of how crude they were, like they haven't changed since the 1800's. Wouldn't ever consider getting cutters from them.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
If you watch the video carefully you'll notice that he used an M42 COBALT drill bit. That's way over the top.
neophyte
Well-known member
These actually look like they could cut piano wire just fine, although it might affect the jaws just enough that cutting fine copper stranded wire would be a problem afterward.Yep, this was a reasonable test. Cutters like the heavy duty ones like the one PF tested (except for the Milwaukee) are meant to cut nails screws, etc. up to piano wire. They don't cut copper cleanly.
Pic below is a Tsunoda cutter with narrower, mirror honed bevels that I used for copper and nothing harder.
I have even narrower, flush beveled cutters for plastic, eg zip ties. Got some CS Osborne upholstery pliers on a lark because of how crude they were, like they haven't changed since the 1800's. Wouldn't ever consider getting cutters from them.
Most of the better cutters I have including Knipex and Facom will actually cut fine stranded wire just fine, even if rated for piano wire.
It is just a bunch of tests for cutting hard stuff. They are meaningful no matter what. As far as I am concerned, I never use any pliers to cut nails or drill bits. For anything really sacrificial, I just use a hacksaw or a mini hacksaw. None of the tests represent any real life experience I had or will have. So arguing whether the tests make sense or not does not make sense.
bwringer
Well-known member
An awful lot of you seem to have missed the entire point of attempting to cut drill bits and screws.
The idea was to make the pliers fail and see how they failed. It was an easy way to test to destruction using cheap, familiar objects.
Absolutely no one expects them to be able to snip through drill bits, and of course no one really tries to use them in this way.
Cutting nails is somewhat abusive, but it is a common real-world use. Cutting screws just ups the ante because they're harder than nails, and will often damage the cutting edge; this use is not all that common, but it does happen.
The idea was to make the pliers fail and see how they failed. It was an easy way to test to destruction using cheap, familiar objects.
Absolutely no one expects them to be able to snip through drill bits, and of course no one really tries to use them in this way.
Cutting nails is somewhat abusive, but it is a common real-world use. Cutting screws just ups the ante because they're harder than nails, and will often damage the cutting edge; this use is not all that common, but it does happen.
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seber
Well-known member
Sorry, the brand is long gone. They have blue handles. I would guess they are Diamond brand as that was the favored brand of the hardware store I frequented.We're all waiting to learn what brand they are.
I've cut many nails with NWS Fantasticos; no issue, jaws still perfect except for some plating missing. I used to like Channellock until I discovered NWS and Knipex here; no comparison unless you can't afford another $20 for a plier. I still love my Channellock linesman, but that's it.
Al Borland
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Okay, I'm confused.
Usually it's ME abusing tools. Dykes and wire cutters are for wire. Snips for sheet metal and bolt cutters/Linesman pliers for bolts, nails, etc.
Am I in an alternate universe? Does Spock suddenly have a beard?
Usually it's ME abusing tools. Dykes and wire cutters are for wire. Snips for sheet metal and bolt cutters/Linesman pliers for bolts, nails, etc.
Am I in an alternate universe? Does Spock suddenly have a beard?
neophyte
Well-known member
Most nails nowadays are round, whichbis a type of nail called a “wire” nail, because the nails are made out of wire.
There are “cut” nails, which are usually rectangular in cross section, and which are referred to as “cut” nails, because the nails are punched and formed out of a sheet of steel, or formerly wrought iron.
The “cut” nails, and “Wire” nails, are usually both soft enough that a pair of dykes will cut them, although “cut” nails are more likely to cause issues, since the square corners can dig more into **** cutting jaws.
Both types of nails are also available in a hardened form for use in masonry, and some other materials, are those should probably not be cut with regular diagonal cutters.
Average screws and bolts you find in hardware stores are also usually fine to cut with dykes, if the bolt/screw will fit, since these are usually unhardened, and really soft. The exception being drywall screws and similar.
There are higher grade bolts which shouldn’t be cut with dykes, but those are less vommon outside machine and automotive use.
The major issue with cutting bails etc. with dykes, is over time it can slightly dull the **** cutting edges enough that the dykes will no longer cut fine stranded wire or other really soft metals.
For really soft materials, you should probably have been using cutters meant for really soft material, which typically are not your average hardware store cutters. ( They may work, but this isn’t the material average hardware store cutters were made for).
Flush and Semi flush cutters should really not be used for anything other than the mildest steel wire, or soft metals like copper, but I’ve seen semi flush cutters sold for trimming steel nails.
Sheet metal snips are generally made for cutting sheet metal, but plenty of people use them for cutting wire fence type material, and expanded metal.
Thank God there are four or five people in this thread with a slight amount of intelligence.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
Unless you’re an electrician.
Then the diags are for everything, snips are for the tinners, and linemans are for everything else.
anndel
Well-known member
I use my dikes to cut wire and cotter pins but not nails. That's what the mini-bolt cutters are for. I have Knipex, SO, Channellock and Klein dikes and my go to most of the time are my Channellocks.
neophyte
Well-known member
Snap-On gas a video showing the production of their pliers.
It looks like Snap-On uses an automated cold forging process, rather than the more common hot forging process.
I believe this is what Facom/Bost use to produce their pliers as well.
I don’t know whether this would cause the difference in test results.
Channellock appears to hot forge their pliers from production videos I’ve seen.
Klein also seems to hot gorge their pliers.
I believe this is what Facom/Bost use to produce their pliers as well.
I don’t know whether this would cause the difference in test results.
Channellock appears to hot forge their pliers from production videos I’ve seen.
Klein also seems to hot gorge their pliers.
Paul_The_Builder
Well-known member
I agree. I used to really like Project Farm, and I still do, but I think his "tests" are getting worse and worse.
Its like getting a group of SUV's, and them dropping a wrecking ball on them and whichever one crumples the least is the "winner". I mean I guess that shows which one is "strongest", but it doesn't really have much bearing on the real world usage and reliability of it... but it does generate youtube views.
The pressure meter was interesting... but how much pressure you have to apply to cut something that's bigger than what the cutters are designed to cut is not particularly useful information. Cutting various hardnesses of steel and seeing the damage that it does to the cutting knives is the most useful piece of information in the video IMO.
I clicked on the video because I wanted to see some real world comparisons like which diagnosis cuts #6 copper with the least effort or which cutter holds up the best after a couple hundred cuts. I mean I could have seen him trying them on piano wire but 16p nails and deck screws. Why?
There is no way you are going to cut thru a large nail with a Channellock linesman pliers. Or at least have them survive for more than a few cuts. NWS Fantasticos will do it all day. They are not made for cutting copper wire- they're basically baby bolt cutters like the Knipex Cobolt. Knipex and NWS rates their cutters for piano wire size, etc. Quality pliers can go beyond cutting copper wire.
GrantCee
Well-known member
^^ This.
I have a pair of Fujiya 700N diagonal cutters. They're rated for 2.5mm piano wire and 4.0mm steel wire. I've used them to cut nails, cotter pins, and heavy field fencing. Quality tools will do things like that. I have other cutters to handle soft copper wire.
(You just know the Snap On fanatics crying about the test not being "fair" would be singing a very different tune had the SO pliers "won"...)
But can you get your Fujiya warrantied when your blade gets nicked from cutting hardened wire. My guess is no. While my snap-on driver will simply hand me a new pair. My daily drivers are Klein d2000 lineman and diagonal and I have put them both thru more abuse than I ever thought they would take but they have held up extremely well. I have tried a coworkers knipex and they are nice but so were my Klein’s when they were new and he can’t cut thru anything my Klein’s won’t. Toughest thing we cut thru is #2 CCS (copper clad steel). Not cutting that with diagonals I’ve tried. My point is there is different pliers for a reason.
Do your Klein D2000-48 diagonal cutters have some pivot play? I recently returned a new Klein D2000-48 with poor pivot play after cutting couple Senco Angled/Finish 15-Gauge nails and a soft steel wire.
My daily drivers see a lot of use so yes there is some play in them but they still cut #6 and #2 copper which it’s main job for me so I haven’t replaced them yet.
My D2000 have not seen a lot of use, but even on new ones there was a pivot play and blades are not aligned and overlap eachother.
I have a brand new pair sitting in my electrical bag at home I’ll check them when I get home and post pics if I can.
Thank you, shawhite!
My new D2000 also lacked side-to-side play, but after cutting some nails / wires, the pivot play and overlap became unacceptable.
When you squeeze the handle, do the cutters overlap?
Because even on a new one, the cutters will overlap, when the handle is squeezed.
Xcursion88
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NO...
The justification of tool trucks is the #1 the service it provides.
Tools brought to your work place, warranted on the spot if needed, selection
#2 quality that will last if used properly. That's the key.
The SO pliers in the above video are NOT made for cutting drill bits, nails or screws. They're made for making nice cuts in copper wire that will last a long time. Do they feel good in tje hand as well? To each their own on that...but you get the point.
On a side note...
I don't quite understand why the world is chock full of negative Nancy's just looking for a moment to pounce on some one's or some thing's good reputation.
Oh well
The justification of tool trucks is the #1 the service it provides.
Tools brought to your work place, warranted on the spot if needed, selection
#2 quality that will last if used properly. That's the key.
The SO pliers in the above video are NOT made for cutting drill bits, nails or screws. They're made for making nice cuts in copper wire that will last a long time. Do they feel good in tje hand as well? To each their own on that...but you get the point.
On a side note...
I don't quite understand why the world is chock full of negative Nancy's just looking for a moment to pounce on some one's or some thing's good reputation.
Oh well
The new cutters do not over lap even if I bear down on the handles. As you can see the beaters over lap and the handles don’t line up. I have always had good service life from Klein but every company falls from grace sooner or later
Sort of. . .
'Dike" is a nickname derived from the combination of Diagnal & cutters. Dikes.
A dike is also an embankment as you pointed out, but that's not the context here.
In the context of this thread, pliers. . .
Diags or dikes is jargon used especially in the US electrical industry, to describe diagonal pliers.
In the United Kingdom and Ireland, diagonal pliers are commonly referred to as snips or nippers, and inCanada, Australia and New Zealand they are often referred to as side cutters.
Xcursion88
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You're missing the point...
When we take the word Dike/****..
No matter topic...
Both spellings are used globally.
Handyandy23
Well-known member
The destruction testing part of it seems a little useless, but I think there is some value in measuring how much force it took to cut the nails. That should be somewhat indicative of which pliers will require the least force to cut something in a real world application.
Not that there's a right or wrong brand, but this kind of reinforced my appreciation of the Channellocks. They performed well with a low cutting force required, they are on the cheaper end, they are made in USA, and I can buy them locally at Canadian Tire off the shelf for less than half the price of the Knipex on the shelf above it. That's nothing against the Knipex, but for my DIY uses and abuses, the CL offer value that's hard to beat.
Not that there's a right or wrong brand, but this kind of reinforced my appreciation of the Channellocks. They performed well with a low cutting force required, they are on the cheaper end, they are made in USA, and I can buy them locally at Canadian Tire off the shelf for less than half the price of the Knipex on the shelf above it. That's nothing against the Knipex, but for my DIY uses and abuses, the CL offer value that's hard to beat.
Mine was overlap with pivot play, brand at HD has small pivot play and cutters overlap.
The message I received from Klein: " Per our product engineer, what you are describing is normal. "
I tied rebar for over a decade. Said rebar usually sets on a #9 wire chair of some type. A good rodbuster can cut these chairs all day long with regular #9 Kleins (not the D2000's, just the regular ones) when he uses the proper technique. Place the cutters where you want the cut; bear down on the cutters as you rapidly bend the chair. It takes a few tries to get the technique down but it works every time.
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