Too bad you couldn't sell bags of popcorn in computer land! Pay pal accepted!
While we're at it, why not start a "Best Ratchet" part two thread?
Best Ratchets?
- Thread starter HFlashman
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plinker
Well-known member
The advent of the internet in particular certainly has changed things as far as what you can get, no doubt there.
I have not really followed what has been going on with Craftsman since Stanley bought them, Have not bought or broke anything recently so not really an issue to me, I do have quite a number of their tools, FWIW. The somewhat local Ace has a decent stock last I saw.
S-K went bankrupt, I bought a number of repair kits for future supply, Ideal then bought them, so support continues for most items.
Armstrong being dropped bugs me, Apex will replace broken items with Gearwrench, so that is something, but it's not quite the same.
Regardless of anyone's narrative/opinion, at the end of the day everyone will buy what they need & want from where ever they feel like getting it, and the world continue to spin slightly tilted.
mudflap
Well-known member
ssdave
Banned
Only on Garage Journal are Gedore, Koken, Toptul or other obscure manufacturers stuff common. Yes, you can get them through the internet. In the real world, there's not a lot of them out there, and not a lot of places to buy them. I've never seen anything made by any of those three, except in pictures on here. If you're a GJ devotee, and buy things unseen based on posts you see, Gedore is an option. For me, it's a non-starter; I have a hard time thinking it's a good deal to buy some unknown imported tool, sight unseen, when I know exactly what US made one meets my needs. I guess I'm just not much of a tool guy in that sense. I can readily see and buy SK, Proto, and Snap-on; and know that I can trust them to do what I want them to. There's huge quanties of them available; if I can't find one for sale to look at, I can sure find a friend that has one in his toolbox that I can see. And, if I use the same magic internet that I would have to use to get Gedore, I can find them used but excellent condition for much less than the unknown Gedore item. So, I'll continue to be stuck in the 20th century, buying quality USA made stuff, instead of obscure and hard to find (for me) import stuff.
Trying to be as subjective as possible so heres my 2 cents. Im not going to elaborate as this post would become a mile long but just know this is what I consider the best having owned many expensive brands.
Chrome handle comfort. 2-Way tie between Cornwell and Nepros.
Comfort grip comfort. Snap-On (also the only one user replaceable).
Ratcheting action. Snap-On.
Lightest back drag (important in very tight quarters). Koken
Thinnest head (matters more than you think). Matco.
Best flex. Nepros (constant tension Teflon pad-doesn't get floppy).
Best locking flex. Matco (Only design that can be unlocked and used as a standard flex.)
Best quick release. Nepros.
Best choice of options. Snap-On. Matco isn't far off, just lacks a QR line-up.
Best sealed. Snap-On
Most problematic. Matco (ratchet too fast & lever has a tendency to flip on it own-minor annoyance)
Conclusion? This is too confusing. Buy a cordless and a few Matco (thinnest head) for when cordless wont fit.
Chrome handle comfort. 2-Way tie between Cornwell and Nepros.
Comfort grip comfort. Snap-On (also the only one user replaceable).
Ratcheting action. Snap-On.
Lightest back drag (important in very tight quarters). Koken
Thinnest head (matters more than you think). Matco.
Best flex. Nepros (constant tension Teflon pad-doesn't get floppy).
Best locking flex. Matco (Only design that can be unlocked and used as a standard flex.)
Best quick release. Nepros.
Best choice of options. Snap-On. Matco isn't far off, just lacks a QR line-up.
Best sealed. Snap-On
Most problematic. Matco (ratchet too fast & lever has a tendency to flip on it own-minor annoyance)
Conclusion? This is too confusing. Buy a cordless and a few Matco (thinnest head) for when cordless wont fit.
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Wamsutta
Well-known member
Even less back drag than a Cornwell 30 tooth? My Cornwell feels like it has next to no back drag at all. Almost feels gearless.
Koken zeal ratchets almost feels like there are no teeth, its that light. After several years of using them (almost 5 years now) they are still going strong.
Compared to a Cornwell TR3 1/4 ratchet, Koken wins for least back drag. Hell, I would say it has the least out of all ratchets period.
It's not one you will use all the time in the full time auto world, but it has its time and place and I recommend you at least get the 1/4 version for those jobs where you need something to tighten up in a confined space.
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Musicinabottle
Banned
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I see a a lot of used ratchets so I'll limit my comments to what I see in the used ratchet market. 99% of the Snap-on Ratchets I find used function just fine. Some of them may look really bad with their high shine chrome finish gone but they still work. The Craftsman RHFT ratchets are another brand that stand the test of time. Rarely do I find one that's not working smoothly.... Although I bought one frozen up a few weeks ago, soaked it in transmission fluid and now it's smooth as new.
dtnel
Active member
A Ratchets a ratchet. If it works and gets the job done and ur happy with it regardless if you got bent over by the tool truck guys (grab ur ankles), have craftsman, Titan, knock offs, gearwrench and many other brands as I do they all work the same. I do break the smaller cheaper 1/4 drive ones more often though. I often grab to small of a ratchet thinking I can put my horsepower behind it....
Just remember....... ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥
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Just remember....... ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥
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Al Borland
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Most of those "Rude Words" in my area were based on the attitude of the local Cornwell driver.
Also it was common to parody the name of EVERYTHING in the shops, so Chevy made a "Shove-ette", Mercury made the "Mistake", Ford had the "Exploder" and the "FISO"
AceofSpad3s
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I submitted for the copyright and soon you'll have to pay me royalties to say it like the birthday song. Get it in while you can still afford it.
WWheeler
Well-known member
All depends on what I'm doing. A different job to do often requires a different 'best ratchet'.
All that said, Snap-on comfort grips, roto head or swivel, tend to be my go-tos.
All that said, Snap-on comfort grips, roto head or swivel, tend to be my go-tos.
I am not suggesting anything written above is wrong or incorrect. But I'd bet if you got a trade industry tech from a country in Europe to write the same list, it would be very different. What I've noticed being a member outside the US is that what's regarded as 'best' depends greatly around what is popular and readily used by the mainstream in industry. We can only judge what we know & are familiar with. For some techs around the globe Snap On is a boutique product hard to source and find factory support. Not so much here in Australia (we have SO trucks that visit dealers etc) but a German mechanic for example would have far fewer reasons to buy Snap On ratchets than those who stand on US soil.
anndel
Well-known member
I love my Snap-ons.
ssdave
Banned
That's a big part of it. Hard to use what you can't buy. I can readily get Snap-on and Proto, new and used. Can get used Craftsman, SK easily; if Stanley B&D gets their act together can probably get Craftsman again in the future (other than the current chinese ones). Can get Carlyle at NAPA. But, getting Hazet, Stahlwille, Koken, Gedore, or similar would take effort, and seeing before buying would be near impossible. Then, getting rebuild kits would be another endurance test. That greatly influences what I own and use. After the brands that I've mentioned above, all I have readily available is a few Chinese Dewalts at the local ranch store, and the Chinesium flavor of the month at the discount auto parts houses. So, I go with SO and Proto and a few used older USA brands that I've accumulated over time.
pilotmotor
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I only have experience with us made ratchets , I have dozens and dozens of them I collected over the past 35 years. SK PROTO WILLIAMS SNAP ON ARMSTRONG MAC CRAFTSMAN MATCO CORNWELL ect . snap on dual 80's and matco 88 are the best ( smoothest , least back drag , thinnest head , most comfortable grip) of what I have.
Look at the "tool truck equivalent" thread to see who really makes what and you'll understand which core designs are the best . I just bought two gearwrench 120xp to try and they seem very nice so far. These are my only non us ratchets so far
Look at the "tool truck equivalent" thread to see who really makes what and you'll understand which core designs are the best . I just bought two gearwrench 120xp to try and they seem very nice so far. These are my only non us ratchets so far
davethorik
Well-known member
I thought the Snap-on locking flex could be unlocked too?
There are almost too many provincial assumptions to unpack in that first sentence, Here are two.
First, your corner of US is not the world
Second, what is "obscure" to you may be "common" to someone with different or wider experience. They may also find things that are "common" to you, "obscure." (Example: before GJ I had never heard of the following hotly discussed tool brands: Cornwell, Matco, Wright, Armstrong, SK, Proto.)
Please define "the real world."
I'm curious why the qualifier "imported." Would you buy an American made tool sight unseen? What's the difference between buying an American made tool sight unseen based on hearsay, and buying a German, Taiwanese, Australian, Egyptian, etc. tool sight unseen based on hearsay?
Many Proto ratchets are actually Facom "palm control" designs, made by USAG in Italy.
http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/i...d_Proto®-Standard-Length-Round-Head-Ratchets/
http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/i...-8d0c-b76251d65aba_Proto®-Flex-Head-Ratchets/
That is the (wonderful, better than any previous time) world in which we currently live and hopefully will continue to nurture. Are those Proto ratchets "US" or "import" tools to you?
To me they are simply very good ratchets, but too shiny.
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I'm not sure why you are singling him out. It clearly explains his points in that post and even followed up his opinion in another post. He likes the ratchets he likes because he knows the brand or can put his hand on one before the purchase.
I agree with him. I can go to people I know who repair equipment and vehicles and look at their tools. You won't hardly find any imports. They are an older crowd so you won't see them buying tools from Amazon, EBay, etc. If I have a choice between an import and an USA ratchet, I'm picking the USA one. Not because the USA is better but because more than likely I know the brand or have used the ratchet. I'm more comfortable buying USA than imports. Plus it's my money and I'll spend it how I want.
ssdave
Banned
JBH,
I agree with you that my preferences are colored by where I live. I understand my corner of the USA is not the world; my experiences apply uniquely to me, not to someone in Australia, China, Taiwan, Singapore, or Europe. Or even in Los Angeles or Houston; their environment is entirely different than where I live. It's a 3 hour drive for me to get a tool from HF; I can get a Snap-on tool within 500 feet of my work or 1/2 mile from my house.
Where Gedore, Toptul, Koken, etc are common and a person can get them easily, see them, try them out; most people will prefer and use those in preference to something that they may have a hard time getting. I presume brands like SO or SK or Proto would not be generally available where the above mentioned ones are commonly available. In that case, the Proto and SO would probably be "imports". I don't expect someone in Germany to actively seek out a Proto or SK or Wright tool to use in preference to a locally available Hazet or Stahlwille one. I would expect them to heavily favor the locally availbable tools over usa "imports".
I would easily buy USA made SO or Proto sight unseen; I have a high degree of confidence in the quality level I will receive. I do make sure the Proto I buy are US made. I have had less than satisfactory experiences ordering unknown, imported brands unseen; even with internet references and reviews. Many of the reviewers standards are obviously different than mine. One such example is the gearwrench ratcheting screwdriver with removable extensions. I ordered one based on great reviews here, and it is a clumsy, low quality piece of excrement compared to the Craftsman, SO, and MAC ones I own.
I haven't personally seen or used the Facom Proto ratchets, so have no knowledge base to compare them. I guess, based on your internet review as "too shiny", I should reject them, and since they're from Italy, classify them as imports. Really, I don't care; i have adequate Proto ratchets of other design without them anyway.
I know there are a lot of people that buy stuff on the internet, based on amazon reviews or forum posts, or such. I'm just not as comfortable doing that, as I haven't had good luck with it.
But, as stated by myself and others, use what you prefer, and buy them how you like to. There's a lot of choices out there, and the success of many different brands shows there's a market for them. There's a lot about ratchets that boils down to personal preference. If my preferences are different than yours, that's no surprise.
I'd also recommend buy what you see and know; it's good to have things in your hand and see how they work rather than just going from written descriptions and pictures. If that is Gedore, or Koken, or similar and they work for you, go for it.
BTW, I like shiny over the matte chrome on tools, regardless of where the're made. They're easier to wipe clean after use. But, that's a personal preference. I know a lot of others prefer the matte; for reasons of durability, not getting worn looking, and non-slip surface. I guess that's why manufacturers make both.
I agree with you that my preferences are colored by where I live. I understand my corner of the USA is not the world; my experiences apply uniquely to me, not to someone in Australia, China, Taiwan, Singapore, or Europe. Or even in Los Angeles or Houston; their environment is entirely different than where I live. It's a 3 hour drive for me to get a tool from HF; I can get a Snap-on tool within 500 feet of my work or 1/2 mile from my house.
Where Gedore, Toptul, Koken, etc are common and a person can get them easily, see them, try them out; most people will prefer and use those in preference to something that they may have a hard time getting. I presume brands like SO or SK or Proto would not be generally available where the above mentioned ones are commonly available. In that case, the Proto and SO would probably be "imports". I don't expect someone in Germany to actively seek out a Proto or SK or Wright tool to use in preference to a locally available Hazet or Stahlwille one. I would expect them to heavily favor the locally availbable tools over usa "imports".
I would easily buy USA made SO or Proto sight unseen; I have a high degree of confidence in the quality level I will receive. I do make sure the Proto I buy are US made. I have had less than satisfactory experiences ordering unknown, imported brands unseen; even with internet references and reviews. Many of the reviewers standards are obviously different than mine. One such example is the gearwrench ratcheting screwdriver with removable extensions. I ordered one based on great reviews here, and it is a clumsy, low quality piece of excrement compared to the Craftsman, SO, and MAC ones I own.
I haven't personally seen or used the Facom Proto ratchets, so have no knowledge base to compare them. I guess, based on your internet review as "too shiny", I should reject them, and since they're from Italy, classify them as imports. Really, I don't care; i have adequate Proto ratchets of other design without them anyway.
I know there are a lot of people that buy stuff on the internet, based on amazon reviews or forum posts, or such. I'm just not as comfortable doing that, as I haven't had good luck with it.
But, as stated by myself and others, use what you prefer, and buy them how you like to. There's a lot of choices out there, and the success of many different brands shows there's a market for them. There's a lot about ratchets that boils down to personal preference. If my preferences are different than yours, that's no surprise.
I'd also recommend buy what you see and know; it's good to have things in your hand and see how they work rather than just going from written descriptions and pictures. If that is Gedore, or Koken, or similar and they work for you, go for it.
BTW, I like shiny over the matte chrome on tools, regardless of where the're made. They're easier to wipe clean after use. But, that's a personal preference. I know a lot of others prefer the matte; for reasons of durability, not getting worn looking, and non-slip surface. I guess that's why manufacturers make both.
78C-10
Banned
Snap On
ssdave
Banned
Okay,
I'm willing to step away from being provincial for a while. I want to order an "import" ratchet. Snap-on doesn't make it, but Koken does, and it looks a lot like the Snap-on ones in other sizes. It's a 2774P-5/16HF. I can't find one for sale in the US, or for that matter on a website with an english interface. It might seem I'm being provincial, but in actuality, my command of the Japanese language is zero.
So, for an unwashed heathen like me, can anybody show me how I'd order this tool in this great new world of global economy? For extra credit points, how would I warranty it or get parts for it once I manage to purchase it?
I'm serious now, this is not a facetious post. I'd buy this ratchet from SO if they made it, but Koken is the only one that I've found that does. I've been to Franks Tools, and he doesn't list it.
I'm willing to step away from being provincial for a while. I want to order an "import" ratchet. Snap-on doesn't make it, but Koken does, and it looks a lot like the Snap-on ones in other sizes. It's a 2774P-5/16HF. I can't find one for sale in the US, or for that matter on a website with an english interface. It might seem I'm being provincial, but in actuality, my command of the Japanese language is zero.
So, for an unwashed heathen like me, can anybody show me how I'd order this tool in this great new world of global economy? For extra credit points, how would I warranty it or get parts for it once I manage to purchase it?
I'm serious now, this is not a facetious post. I'd buy this ratchet from SO if they made it, but Koken is the only one that I've found that does. I've been to Franks Tools, and he doesn't list it.
It can. The personal preference is the location and operation of the locking mechanism.
Amazon.jp or whatever their Japanese url is is probably a good start..
But seriously, which is better? Snap On, Harbor Freight, or some ratchet handmade in a limted production run of 3 by a blacksmith from iron he mined himself in the rural mountains of Minnesota only produced between 1963-1965? Judging from these threads its a toss up.
Mr Ratchet
Well-known member
I would have said Armstrong Maxx locking flex but, Armstrong is no more. That leaves the Matco Locking flex as the best ratchet. I like my SO and Gearwrench ratchets too but Gran the Armstrong first in 3/8" and 1/2" drive first. 1/4" goes to my Matco long handle ratchet for first choice.
I have a theory:
Every single one of these "Which is better...?" Threads for any item sold by both Snap On and Harbor Freight is useless.
Someone inevitably offers Snap On as the best with no hard proof yielded from controlled, repeatable testing. Someone counters that HF is 70% as good at 20% the cost, and therefore better. Eventually someone mentions "warranty" and it really spirals oit of control.
Bonus points on the uselessness of the thread if Craftsman also once sold a USA made version of the tool.
Until all the fan boys get some real stress and durability testing equipment and can offer up some legitimate data validating their claims all these "Best tool" threads should be sent off to a forum of their own. Preferably without search engine optimization to save the whole world time.
Every single one of these "Which is better...?" Threads for any item sold by both Snap On and Harbor Freight is useless.
Someone inevitably offers Snap On as the best with no hard proof yielded from controlled, repeatable testing. Someone counters that HF is 70% as good at 20% the cost, and therefore better. Eventually someone mentions "warranty" and it really spirals oit of control.
Bonus points on the uselessness of the thread if Craftsman also once sold a USA made version of the tool.
Until all the fan boys get some real stress and durability testing equipment and can offer up some legitimate data validating their claims all these "Best tool" threads should be sent off to a forum of their own. Preferably without search engine optimization to save the whole world time.
Not really. The detent is tiny to the point where you can basically flick it with your finger and it relocks.
Sorry, but the only other notable country I ignored was Germany, and that's because their ratchets are junk. They're just finally playing catch-up 15 years later by leaving the era of clunky 30 tooth and 20tooth mechanisms. I didn't mention them because they aren't the best at anything.
Facom is better but again I don't consider their round heads the best at anything.
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plinker
Well-known member
We'd have nothing to talk (argue) about then.
On a more serious note,
If ANSI standards are used, most all ratchets would pass. I imagine that ANSI is more of a guideline though ("meets or exceeds" is a common phrase when ANSI standards are mentioned).
I doubt any one here is going to pony up for the number of ratchets and the sample size needed to even do some form of lab test. Someone on youtube testing ratchets isnt exactly going to cut it.
IMO, the best thing a person can do is be an informed buyer and research what you want to buy. I do it and am rarely disappointed with what I end up with. This applies to anything as well, not just tools.
There is nothing wrong with 30 tooth ratchets when they perform well amd are priced right like Ko-ken Zeal are.
Hazet on the other hand is waaaaay too pricey for their basic ratchet, back drag is no where near comparible to most fine tooth of Ko-ken.
Corndoggeh
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- Apr 2, 2016
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I'm an outlier on this forum it seems! I prefer the square-ish handles of the older RP Craftsman ratchets because I maintain a better grip than round handles. The newer Craftsman RP ratchets have sharper corners and actually hurt my hand where the rounded corners on the older Craftsman ratchets do not when I actually put some force on them. However, for round handles I definitely like the Snap-on F-70-M I have since the upper "ring" is right where my ring finger is so I have better control of it. I also hate comfort grips as I tend to get oil, dirt, and grease on my tools whenever I use them and hate having to try them wipe down covering them in gunk.
I think I only have 6 tools in my box that are comfort grip, some extendable HF ratchets and some pry bars. Everything else is a metal handle.
I think I only have 6 tools in my box that are comfort grip, some extendable HF ratchets and some pry bars. Everything else is a metal handle.
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Ha, I thought I was the only one.
. I just can't grip those round-ish handles, an I also don't like grips on my ratchets. I gave up on my Snap-on Dual 80, and sold it. My fav ratchet for the last 4 years was the thin profile 84 tooth ratchet Craftsman ratchet in the top pic. At the bottom is their 120 tooth ratchets and they have had a lot of use lately, and so far i'm really enjoying ithem.I'm not loyal to any one brand, or to what anyone thinks. I use tools and build projects to confirm my own opinion about them, and test the quality based on how efficient the job gets done. If I'm doing a job and I have to fight the tool instead of the tool working for me, that tool will not be in my toolbox.
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Diesel Mercedes
Well-known member
The one you can afford, myself being a broke boy, a harbour freight roto head is a cool deal.
I don't own a single Snap On ratchet out of the 40 or so I have but I really would like one of the new colored hard handle XL 1/2" Dual 80 flex heads just cause they really look badass. But them ratchets are like $3 friggin hundred bucks here which is hard to justify. Many good posts above putting context into these 'best' threads & how useful or useless they really are. I think some proper testing of all these 'best' ratchets would have many eating crow and thinking twice before they lay down the big fact claims about them. Until that day perception really IS reality.
I too like the Craftsman RP handles. I just never could get along with the gear. Must have warranted a dozen in the last 20yrs.
I agree with you on the comfort grip too. Never could get along with them. I have 1 long 3/8” flex-head with a comfort grip but I find I only use it when I have to.
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I didn't mind the grip on the RP Craftsman either. I could hold it without it spinning around in my hand. My gripe is I think the gear is weak. In a short handle, they were fine (not with a cheater pipe). The long handle ones I could strip the teeth out fairly easily. I have an Allen long flex 1/2 that uses the same gears and I know not to use it to break loose lug nuts. I think it's 17" long.
I still use Craftsman occasionally but it's the older 32 teeth model. I like a handle with knurling the best.
I still use Craftsman occasionally but it's the older 32 teeth model. I like a handle with knurling the best.
kythri
Well-known member
Do you use a lot of 5/16" bits? Just curious, I don't really see those around a bunch...