BD1
Well-known member
That's some real talent. It's hard to choose what I like the best.
Maybe you should go into making SURF BOARDS next.
Maybe you should go into making SURF BOARDS next.
Blacksmithing Projects Journal
- Thread starter DoghouseForge
- Start date
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Thanks again for the compliments on the woodwork. I look forward to each batch because whats learned from the previous only stands to make the next higher quality and more efficient.
Aggie, I decided just to leave the "bookmatched" board as is. I agree that straightening the seems would be fairly simple, but the secondary grains are slightly off within the boards line up so its just not worth the extra time to repair it. It's still a really cool board as is...just gives me a reason to make another one with the right direction to start with instead of cutting it up mid way through. Dont you worry! Im joining that damn club!
Knife Building update (Warning Contains Science Content)
Here's a photo of where I left you with the knives since this is a fresh page.
So tonight I have half of the current knife projects to post on. There is some brief science content but mostly just an update on the forged blanks that were picture in the previous posting.
ok, It was buried on the bottom of a long! page a while back, but I asked the board for some advice on what to do to keep the blades from cracking during the hardening cycyle. Most notably the actuall quench...
Well, Mr. Road was kind enough to post a PDF link on the subject of "Quench Cracking" and it proved exactly the resource needed to solve the problems mystery.
What was happening was I would get a knife ground and ready for the hardening phase. The knife would be heated in the forge, temp checked against non magnetic, and when critical temp was reached it was submerged or differentially quenched in water (W-2 steel requires water not oil)
Once I pulled the cooled blade out of the quench medium there would be one or two small cracks in the blade. Could be in the cutting edge or the spine, but it wasnt limited to a certain thickness. These cracks would go completly through the blade and basicly ruin the knife, and the HOURS of work already devoted to it. Some could be ground out and the blade reshaped, but it was a loss no matter which way you looked at it since these blades could not be sold or gifted with the known defects in the heat treating cycle.
My initial theory was that the steel was being shocked too suddenly and in turn cracking the blade...
This is an exampe of "cant see the forrest through the trees"...
While reading the report Aggie posted it was made clear where my error was coming from.
"Quench cracking" is absoluty the name for what was happening, but its a very misleading term because it should really be called "quench tearing"...
From the knife making journey so far we have learned that when metal heats it expands...and in order for something to tear it must first split, and then pull away from itself...If the molecular change occuring during the rapid cooling is a condensing of the molecules(hardening or compacting) then it would therefore be impossible for the steel to tear at that point because the molecules are moving in the opposite direction...
So...the only time the molecules are moving away from one another is during the reheat process...as the metal heats it expands and that expansion is what is needed to facilitate the tearing or cracking.
Upon further testing it was discovered that the areas that would split/crack were the areas directly under the forge jets... So these areas were being heated to rapidly for the metal to handle and in turn it would pull apart under the forces of the rapid expansion....
easy fix right? just go drop around $1500 on a heat treating kiln and problem solved...
I do not have resources to drop on an investment like that at this point in the knife making journey but Im damn sure not gonna quit working on the solution...
If the root areas affected by the spliting were under the forge jets then I hypothesized that I could control the expansion by not letting any areas come in direct contact with the flame jets... In order to accomplish this I used some scrap 14 guage steel and the sheet metal brake to bend a 90 in it. this piece went into the front of the forge and pushed up onto the firebrick sill just inside the main door. With it in place the heat could pass around the sides and radiate thorugh the metal barrier, but not directly flood the firebrick. The knives were placed flat on the firebrick and the PSI running the forge was dropped to 3psi... while it used to take 1 minutes to bring a blade up to critical it now took 10-12min behind the baffle.
Ok, almost done with the metallurgy...
If you go back to post number (147) you will find all the charts on the heat treating tolerances of W-2 steel...
I basicly blew this part off -
Preheating
1200-1250° F
Preheat time in furnace is ¾ Hr. per inch of thickness
I didnt think it mattered then, but now i realize what the time and heat comparison numbers are for...
If the minimum preheat time from 0 deg. up to 1250 deg. is 45min/inch of thickness then an 1/8" of thickness can take no less than - 5.625 minutes to span the same range....
So with this last batch all the knives were treated in this approach, and Im happy to announce that 8 for 8! were hardend successfully.
Flat Ground and ready to harden
heres the pic of the test baffle...I am going to be making a nice bolt on version for the next round of knives.
Aggie, I decided just to leave the "bookmatched" board as is. I agree that straightening the seems would be fairly simple, but the secondary grains are slightly off within the boards line up so its just not worth the extra time to repair it. It's still a really cool board as is...just gives me a reason to make another one with the right direction to start with instead of cutting it up mid way through. Dont you worry! Im joining that damn club!
Knife Building update (Warning Contains Science Content)
Here's a photo of where I left you with the knives since this is a fresh page.
So tonight I have half of the current knife projects to post on. There is some brief science content but mostly just an update on the forged blanks that were picture in the previous posting.
ok, It was buried on the bottom of a long! page a while back, but I asked the board for some advice on what to do to keep the blades from cracking during the hardening cycyle. Most notably the actuall quench...
Well, Mr. Road was kind enough to post a PDF link on the subject of "Quench Cracking" and it proved exactly the resource needed to solve the problems mystery.
What was happening was I would get a knife ground and ready for the hardening phase. The knife would be heated in the forge, temp checked against non magnetic, and when critical temp was reached it was submerged or differentially quenched in water (W-2 steel requires water not oil)
Once I pulled the cooled blade out of the quench medium there would be one or two small cracks in the blade. Could be in the cutting edge or the spine, but it wasnt limited to a certain thickness. These cracks would go completly through the blade and basicly ruin the knife, and the HOURS of work already devoted to it. Some could be ground out and the blade reshaped, but it was a loss no matter which way you looked at it since these blades could not be sold or gifted with the known defects in the heat treating cycle.
My initial theory was that the steel was being shocked too suddenly and in turn cracking the blade...
This is an exampe of "cant see the forrest through the trees"...
While reading the report Aggie posted it was made clear where my error was coming from.
"Quench cracking" is absoluty the name for what was happening, but its a very misleading term because it should really be called "quench tearing"...
From the knife making journey so far we have learned that when metal heats it expands...and in order for something to tear it must first split, and then pull away from itself...If the molecular change occuring during the rapid cooling is a condensing of the molecules(hardening or compacting) then it would therefore be impossible for the steel to tear at that point because the molecules are moving in the opposite direction...
So...the only time the molecules are moving away from one another is during the reheat process...as the metal heats it expands and that expansion is what is needed to facilitate the tearing or cracking.
Upon further testing it was discovered that the areas that would split/crack were the areas directly under the forge jets... So these areas were being heated to rapidly for the metal to handle and in turn it would pull apart under the forces of the rapid expansion....
easy fix right? just go drop around $1500 on a heat treating kiln and problem solved...
I do not have resources to drop on an investment like that at this point in the knife making journey but Im damn sure not gonna quit working on the solution...
If the root areas affected by the spliting were under the forge jets then I hypothesized that I could control the expansion by not letting any areas come in direct contact with the flame jets... In order to accomplish this I used some scrap 14 guage steel and the sheet metal brake to bend a 90 in it. this piece went into the front of the forge and pushed up onto the firebrick sill just inside the main door. With it in place the heat could pass around the sides and radiate thorugh the metal barrier, but not directly flood the firebrick. The knives were placed flat on the firebrick and the PSI running the forge was dropped to 3psi... while it used to take 1 minutes to bring a blade up to critical it now took 10-12min behind the baffle.
Ok, almost done with the metallurgy...
If you go back to post number (147) you will find all the charts on the heat treating tolerances of W-2 steel...
I basicly blew this part off -
Preheating
1200-1250° F
Preheat time in furnace is ¾ Hr. per inch of thickness
I didnt think it mattered then, but now i realize what the time and heat comparison numbers are for...
If the minimum preheat time from 0 deg. up to 1250 deg. is 45min/inch of thickness then an 1/8" of thickness can take no less than - 5.625 minutes to span the same range....
So with this last batch all the knives were treated in this approach, and Im happy to announce that 8 for 8! were hardend successfully.
Flat Ground and ready to harden
heres the pic of the test baffle...I am going to be making a nice bolt on version for the next round of knives.
Last edited:
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Im going to skip the details of the next few steps since they have been covered in earlier post, so if you need info on differential hardening or on the tempering cycles look back a page or 3 and it should fill in the gaps.
I choose to continue with the differential hardening for the larger knives and went with a more tradtional hardening for the smaller knives. These came out great. Had some minor warp in the prototype fish fillet, and some warp in the traditional straight Chefs knife (my fault for laying it uneven on the firebrick)
Home they came for the double temper cycle...i was hungry after all the tiring grinding I did while working the horseshow...
Theres always room for totts, and hell yes Im going to eat mine naploeon!
Tempered and back for the finish grinding
Before I could get started on the final edges and finishes I needed to address the warp in the chef and fillet knife.
The chef knife is extremely thin ground at the tip and even though is was heated slowly enough not to crack the thinner tip was heated first and was able to droop when I lifted the blade out of the forge...I tried to straighten it but I have found that once the metal changes the molecular spacing enough to stretch or bend; it goes right back to the shape you started with as soon as you harden it.
heres an example:
notice the even bow to the blade in the left hand photo and the right hand is after I did some tuning on it. not 100% but a third tempering cylcle should give me the last bit i need.
The tuning method is pretty easy but takes alot of patients. NO RUSHING and only try to tweak it after its been tempered.
Use a flat plate (I choose aluminum 1/8" because it transfers heat well)
a handfull of washers and a C-clamp or two.
Just locate the apex of the warp and mark it with a soap stone. Then stack washers evenly spaced off of the apex mark.
Use the c-clamp on the center mark and tighten it enough to hold everything in place.
lastly use the propane torch and heat the apex mark (DO NOT HEAT IT HIGHTER THAN THE 550DEG YOU TEMPERED AT)
once its warmed up compress the c-clamp and overcorrect the bend slightly.
Let it cool and then unclamp, asses the warp and repeat again. each round you will gain a little memory back and eventually it will hold straight.
Once I build or buy a heat treating oven I am going to introduce a second normalization to my process. This will occur after the main grinding and before the hardening phase. The general reset that the normalization gives the molecular make up of the steel removes stresses caused buy uneven grinding and forging. These stresses are what cause the warping in the blades. If you harden after the normalization there is no unven pressures to react with and you maintain a straight blade.
So at this point everyone was finish ground and sanded up to 300 grit. I will finish sanding them up to 800 and then various buffer rouges after the handling., but any higher before than handle fitting and glue ups is basicly a waste.
Unfortunalty the handle party will have to wait untill this weekend to start and probably will take me untill next weekend to finish...Im going full out on these with brass bolsters, brass end caps, multi layerd handles, multiwood handles, and three hidden tang handles...one of which is a drop point hunter/skinner with a brass guard, bubinga, walnut, and mule deer antler handle. The hunter blade needs some hand filling work to set the crisp lines at the top of the bevels edge but after thats done and the handle is finished it should be one fancy knife!
Heres the handle mock ups as they were left Sunday night...
this brass guard will be ground into an oval but i needed the pre-milled slot so this ones getting sacrificed.
What a journey so far!
Thes first knives I made were - forged, shaped, ground , hardened(ish), tempered(ish), handled, and polished...
These knives are - forged, normalized, cut, shaped, ground, pin holes drilled, preheated, hardened/differentialy hardened, tempered, tempered, uninterupted cooling 3 hours, tweaked, finish ground, handles preped, handles cut and fit, pins cut and fit, assembled, finish shaped, and blade finished....
If you add the second normalization i plan to start doing thats - 20 steps! compared to the 7 steps we started with...
Feels good to be moving forward!
JP
Have a good rest of the week...
I choose to continue with the differential hardening for the larger knives and went with a more tradtional hardening for the smaller knives. These came out great. Had some minor warp in the prototype fish fillet, and some warp in the traditional straight Chefs knife (my fault for laying it uneven on the firebrick)
Home they came for the double temper cycle...i was hungry after all the tiring grinding I did while working the horseshow...
Theres always room for totts, and hell yes Im going to eat mine naploeon!
Tempered and back for the finish grinding
Before I could get started on the final edges and finishes I needed to address the warp in the chef and fillet knife.
The chef knife is extremely thin ground at the tip and even though is was heated slowly enough not to crack the thinner tip was heated first and was able to droop when I lifted the blade out of the forge...I tried to straighten it but I have found that once the metal changes the molecular spacing enough to stretch or bend; it goes right back to the shape you started with as soon as you harden it.
heres an example:
notice the even bow to the blade in the left hand photo and the right hand is after I did some tuning on it. not 100% but a third tempering cylcle should give me the last bit i need.
The tuning method is pretty easy but takes alot of patients. NO RUSHING and only try to tweak it after its been tempered.
Use a flat plate (I choose aluminum 1/8" because it transfers heat well)
a handfull of washers and a C-clamp or two.
Just locate the apex of the warp and mark it with a soap stone. Then stack washers evenly spaced off of the apex mark.
Use the c-clamp on the center mark and tighten it enough to hold everything in place.
lastly use the propane torch and heat the apex mark (DO NOT HEAT IT HIGHTER THAN THE 550DEG YOU TEMPERED AT)
once its warmed up compress the c-clamp and overcorrect the bend slightly.
Let it cool and then unclamp, asses the warp and repeat again. each round you will gain a little memory back and eventually it will hold straight.
Once I build or buy a heat treating oven I am going to introduce a second normalization to my process. This will occur after the main grinding and before the hardening phase. The general reset that the normalization gives the molecular make up of the steel removes stresses caused buy uneven grinding and forging. These stresses are what cause the warping in the blades. If you harden after the normalization there is no unven pressures to react with and you maintain a straight blade.
So at this point everyone was finish ground and sanded up to 300 grit. I will finish sanding them up to 800 and then various buffer rouges after the handling., but any higher before than handle fitting and glue ups is basicly a waste.
Unfortunalty the handle party will have to wait untill this weekend to start and probably will take me untill next weekend to finish...Im going full out on these with brass bolsters, brass end caps, multi layerd handles, multiwood handles, and three hidden tang handles...one of which is a drop point hunter/skinner with a brass guard, bubinga, walnut, and mule deer antler handle. The hunter blade needs some hand filling work to set the crisp lines at the top of the bevels edge but after thats done and the handle is finished it should be one fancy knife!
Heres the handle mock ups as they were left Sunday night...
this brass guard will be ground into an oval but i needed the pre-milled slot so this ones getting sacrificed.
What a journey so far!
Thes first knives I made were - forged, shaped, ground , hardened(ish), tempered(ish), handled, and polished...
These knives are - forged, normalized, cut, shaped, ground, pin holes drilled, preheated, hardened/differentialy hardened, tempered, tempered, uninterupted cooling 3 hours, tweaked, finish ground, handles preped, handles cut and fit, pins cut and fit, assembled, finish shaped, and blade finished....
If you add the second normalization i plan to start doing thats - 20 steps! compared to the 7 steps we started with...
Feels good to be moving forward!
JP
Have a good rest of the week...
Last edited:
Amitygravel
Well-known member
Great stuff JP
Are you pre heating your quench oil before quenching any blades ?
Just sticking a heated rod into it before any blades will help reduce warping.
Another trick I use on big bowie or combat style knives is after finishing the rough grind is take a propane torch to heat past the blue color from one end to the other of the blade and let cool slowly. Really big blades I'll do this a couple times.
I think it reduces any stress in the blade from heat build up during grinding. Which in turn lessens warpage during the quench.
Craig
Are you pre heating your quench oil before quenching any blades ?
Just sticking a heated rod into it before any blades will help reduce warping.
Another trick I use on big bowie or combat style knives is after finishing the rough grind is take a propane torch to heat past the blue color from one end to the other of the blade and let cool slowly. Really big blades I'll do this a couple times.
I think it reduces any stress in the blade from heat build up during grinding. Which in turn lessens warpage during the quench.
Craig
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Thanks Craig!
I dont use oil because its a water hardening steel but i havent tried heating the pan.
Im going to be building a heat treatment oven and will be adding a normaliztion round after the initial grind. Like you have discovered the heating releases the stresses and eliminates the warp.
Basicly a full heat soak version of what you are doing with your torch.
JP
Amitygravel
Well-known member
Jp
You do realize you have to document the oven build for us of course ? !
Even though you are using W-2 , you CAN oil quench.
I do it with W-1 and my friend does his W-2 blades in hydraulic oil. As well as 5160 , 1095 and Damascus.
Give it a try.
Are you using a brine solution ?
You do realize you have to document the oven build for us of course ? !
Even though you are using W-2 , you CAN oil quench.
I do it with W-1 and my friend does his W-2 blades in hydraulic oil. As well as 5160 , 1095 and Damascus.
Give it a try.
Are you using a brine solution ?
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Quick little photo update tonight...
I had to pull a couple knives from the big order to get a return client some last minute valentines day gifts for her boyfriend.
Lucky dude...he got the huge butcher block and matching laminate knife for christmas and now he's going to be adding these two into the collection.
Here's the general prep/utility knife with the Bacote wood handle and brass pins, and the wide blade paring knife with the mixed exotic laminate i made from the serving board trimmings. the Bacote knife is 4.75"x1" in blade length and the pairing knife is 3.75"x.75" ... the larger is pushed towards cleaning meats like chicken and beef, while the pairing is very thin ground for delicate work like tomatoes and julienne prep work.
Pics of the process are posted in the previous update...
The Bacote turned out sick!
one lesson learned...with these really dense woods the normal sealer I use is to thick and basicly stays pemanently tacky...so I sanded everything back down again and switched to Teak oil...that worked really nicely.
Im excited at how cool the laminate came out, but its a delicate little B***h so if you make some like this plan to cut your scales a little thicker than you need and work the thickness off with the belt sander later..
Its the little things that make me happy when thes knives are finished...just enough to show its past life but not enough to be overpwering on such a small !thin! blade...
put some late nights in this weekend to finish these in time for shipping tomorrow, but its worth it...Bummer is now im down two for the store order but Ill forge them out this week.
Have a great week, the doghouse is gonna be stupid busy with farrier work but hopefully I can finish a couple more by the weeks end...
JP
I had to pull a couple knives from the big order to get a return client some last minute valentines day gifts for her boyfriend.
Lucky dude...he got the huge butcher block and matching laminate knife for christmas and now he's going to be adding these two into the collection.
Here's the general prep/utility knife with the Bacote wood handle and brass pins, and the wide blade paring knife with the mixed exotic laminate i made from the serving board trimmings. the Bacote knife is 4.75"x1" in blade length and the pairing knife is 3.75"x.75" ... the larger is pushed towards cleaning meats like chicken and beef, while the pairing is very thin ground for delicate work like tomatoes and julienne prep work.
Pics of the process are posted in the previous update...
The Bacote turned out sick!
one lesson learned...with these really dense woods the normal sealer I use is to thick and basicly stays pemanently tacky...so I sanded everything back down again and switched to Teak oil...that worked really nicely.
Im excited at how cool the laminate came out, but its a delicate little B***h so if you make some like this plan to cut your scales a little thicker than you need and work the thickness off with the belt sander later..
Its the little things that make me happy when thes knives are finished...just enough to show its past life but not enough to be overpwering on such a small !thin! blade...
put some late nights in this weekend to finish these in time for shipping tomorrow, but its worth it...Bummer is now im down two for the store order but Ill forge them out this week.
Have a great week, the doghouse is gonna be stupid busy with farrier work but hopefully I can finish a couple more by the weeks end...
JP
Last edited:
aggierailroad
Well-known member
Looking more and more pro every time. Good work.
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
I like it!
I was a little bummed that they didnt show him forging those leaves...They are nice!
I didnt advertise the roses with valentines coming...the fact that lots of guys make them brings the value down and the price you have to list at to be competitive isnt even close to worth the time...
JP
cdrewferd
Well-known member
I just caught up. You make some very nice looking knives and cutting boards. Do you have a website up yet by chance?
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
https://www.etsy.com/shop/DogHouseForge?ref=si_shop
QUOTE=cdrewferd;3742750]I just caught up. You make some very nice looking knives and cutting boards. Do you have a website up yet by chance?[/QUOTE]
Here's the store link.
And thank you!!!
JP
QUOTE=cdrewferd;3742750]I just caught up. You make some very nice looking knives and cutting boards. Do you have a website up yet by chance?[/QUOTE]
Here's the store link.
And thank you!!!
JP
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Got three more knives finished this week.
A mesquite burl pairing knife and mesquite Cheese Cleaver that are headed to mesquite texas... I like this guys style...
and a couple for the brooke pottery order collection.
To start there is the "fish Filet" knife. Aside from the cool blade design I wanted to make this one a solid handled knife or "hidden tang"
My reason for this was its such a light blade that a full tang would throw the balance way to the rear of the knife. Its also a very fine tuned knife and being light fit the bill.
Ziricote Pen turning blank out of the $1 bin at wood craft...
some brass bar stock and a brass bolster. Its alot of bling for a filet knife, but if your gonna buy a filet knife specificly for fish and pay this much for it your gonna want some bling.
Got the tang and blade insertion tuned to the bolsters pre milled slot. This is cheating a little because I didnt hand make the bolster, but dont you worry. Plans are already under way to have lengths of flat bar milled in sections so I can create whatever shape bolster I want in the future.
A brass end cap really seemed like a nice touch so I ground some flat bar into a general circle, drilled an 1/8" hole through it and into the **** of the handle, and then assembled it with a brass pin and epoxy. Once its ground and polished you cant see the pin markings even if your looking for it.
assembled and ready for epoxy
I didnt have a clamp to evenly press the end cap into place and hold the seem tight so I improvised...
after it cured for a day i ground everything into agreement...(take your time with the brass so you dont get it to hot and break your epoxy joint)
So we will take a quick break from the filet and move over to the Mesquite Pairing knife.
At the request of the client I aquired some mesquite wood. The cheapest option for me was to bid on an auction lot and cross my fingers...Bam! I got lucky and won all this mesquite burl for $12
Basic steps as seem so far for this one
A little grinding and buffing later...
and the filet and pairing knife were ready for sealer
Heres a quick look at the Cheese Cleaver and then the finished Filet and Pairing knives...
I actually finished this cleaver a few weeks ago but was waiting for the other mesqite wood to finish the order. Best kinda client out there..."i dont care how long it takes as long as its the materials we selected in the end"
he wanted clean mesquite for the cleaver
ok, Im gonna get the second section written up and should have it posted in a few minutes.
A mesquite burl pairing knife and mesquite Cheese Cleaver that are headed to mesquite texas...
I like this guys style...and a couple for the brooke pottery order collection.
To start there is the "fish Filet" knife. Aside from the cool blade design I wanted to make this one a solid handled knife or "hidden tang"
My reason for this was its such a light blade that a full tang would throw the balance way to the rear of the knife. Its also a very fine tuned knife and being light fit the bill.
Ziricote Pen turning blank out of the $1 bin at wood craft...
some brass bar stock and a brass bolster. Its alot of bling for a filet knife, but if your gonna buy a filet knife specificly for fish and pay this much for it your gonna want some bling. 
Got the tang and blade insertion tuned to the bolsters pre milled slot. This is cheating a little because I didnt hand make the bolster, but dont you worry. Plans are already under way to have lengths of flat bar milled in sections so I can create whatever shape bolster I want in the future.
A brass end cap really seemed like a nice touch so I ground some flat bar into a general circle, drilled an 1/8" hole through it and into the **** of the handle, and then assembled it with a brass pin and epoxy. Once its ground and polished you cant see the pin markings even if your looking for it.
assembled and ready for epoxy
I didnt have a clamp to evenly press the end cap into place and hold the seem tight so I improvised...
after it cured for a day i ground everything into agreement...(take your time with the brass so you dont get it to hot and break your epoxy joint)
So we will take a quick break from the filet and move over to the Mesquite Pairing knife.
At the request of the client I aquired some mesquite wood. The cheapest option for me was to bid on an auction lot and cross my fingers...Bam! I got lucky and won all this mesquite burl for $12
Basic steps as seem so far for this one
A little grinding and buffing later...
and the filet and pairing knife were ready for sealer
Heres a quick look at the Cheese Cleaver and then the finished Filet and Pairing knives...
I actually finished this cleaver a few weeks ago but was waiting for the other mesqite wood to finish the order. Best kinda client out there..."i dont care how long it takes as long as its the materials we selected in the end"
he wanted clean mesquite for the cleaver
ok, Im gonna get the second section written up and should have it posted in a few minutes.
Last edited:
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Post number 2 for the evening.
If you missed the previous section with the filet and pairing knifes scrollback and start there to catch up.
The final knife for the evening is a special one...
Its a 7.5" Chef with my new "cutaway" spine.
Its got a redwood burl, Padauk, and copper handle thats its really hard not to stop and look at when you walk by it...
heres the nasty look... im never bored by how this can turn into the finished handles...
For the copper i used 1/64" plate and cut 5 strips for each side. The i used an epoxy for metal that cures dark grey in between the layers. I use a clear epoxy for the main handle body work but I wanted the layers to be seperated with the dark contrast and while it didnt work out perfectly it was close enough to achieve my look.
cured, ground, and shaped by hand for this one... sanded up to 220grit.
Ground to 400grit and the blade is somewhere around 600 at this point.
I got down-right giddy at this point...had to ask a fiend if it was ok for a grown man and blacksmith to feel giddy...he said "this is definitly an exception"
home and sealed...blade finished up to 2500 grit and buffed with scratchless jewelers rouge. I used teak oil on this one becasue I didnt want the finsih to get glossy and ruin the depth...plus the copper shined up so well it would distract from its awesomness.
Im really digging this cut away spine...locks your fingers in and lets you choke up right onto the blade for finer more controlled work. (who actually uses a chef knife by the handle anyawy???)
So that thing made my weekend...I actually was a head of schedule this afternoon and could have started another handle but I didnt wanna push my luck. 3 for 3 this wekend is good enough.
Instead i cleaned and reorganized some stuff at the shop. My wood selection has gotten slightly out of controll...and my grinders being mounted in front of the stack of expensive wood wasnt a very smart idea...I also have aquired a shitload of clamps...Theres a thread about "to many clamps" right now and I dont wanna make them feel bad so Ill just leave these pics here.
I got this old metal desk a while back for a whopping $25 and decided to make it knife supply central...Why dont they make everything like this desk!?! the drawers are like 50' deep and hold more stuff than mary poppin's bag!
So I had some fun and loaded it up. It cleared away all the loose wood and clutter fom the work bench so now I can grind without fear of enbedding my bloodwood with brass filings.
All right have a great week and I will hopfully have the santaku finished next weekend with its spalted maple handle...The 8'' slicer is on the list as well as the chop knife...There are also 6 more knives to forge and a serving board to make....any retired finish carpenters or metal workers on GJ live near lakeland and want a part time job... Im close to needing the help...
one more for the road...
If you missed the previous section with the filet and pairing knifes scrollback and start there to catch up.
The final knife for the evening is a special one...
Its a 7.5" Chef with my new "cutaway" spine.
Its got a redwood burl, Padauk, and copper handle thats its really hard not to stop and look at when you walk by it...
heres the nasty look...
im never bored by how this can turn into the finished handles...For the copper i used 1/64" plate and cut 5 strips for each side. The i used an epoxy for metal that cures dark grey in between the layers. I use a clear epoxy for the main handle body work but I wanted the layers to be seperated with the dark contrast and while it didnt work out perfectly it was close enough to achieve my look.
cured, ground, and shaped by hand for this one... sanded up to 220grit.
Ground to 400grit and the blade is somewhere around 600 at this point.
I got down-right giddy at this point...had to ask a fiend if it was ok for a grown man and blacksmith to feel giddy...he said "this is definitly an exception"
home and sealed...blade finished up to 2500 grit and buffed with scratchless jewelers rouge. I used teak oil on this one becasue I didnt want the finsih to get glossy and ruin the depth...plus the copper shined up so well it would distract from its awesomness.
Im really digging this cut away spine...locks your fingers in and lets you choke up right onto the blade for finer more controlled work. (who actually uses a chef knife by the handle anyawy???)
So that thing made my weekend...I actually was a head of schedule this afternoon and could have started another handle but I didnt wanna push my luck. 3 for 3 this wekend is good enough.
Instead i cleaned and reorganized some stuff at the shop. My wood selection has gotten slightly out of controll...and my grinders being mounted in front of the stack of expensive wood wasnt a very smart idea...I also have aquired a shitload of clamps...Theres a thread about "to many clamps" right now and I dont wanna make them feel bad so Ill just leave these pics here.
I got this old metal desk a while back for a whopping $25 and decided to make it knife supply central...Why dont they make everything like this desk!?! the drawers are like 50' deep and hold more stuff than mary poppin's bag!
So I had some fun and loaded it up. It cleared away all the loose wood and clutter fom the work bench so now I can grind without fear of enbedding my bloodwood with brass filings.
All right have a great week and I will hopfully have the santaku finished next weekend with its spalted maple handle...The 8'' slicer is on the list as well as the chop knife...There are also 6 more knives to forge and a serving board to make....any retired finish carpenters or metal workers on GJ live near lakeland and want a part time job... Im close to needing the help...
one more for the road...
Last edited:
Amitygravel
Well-known member
Looks great Jp!
Copper makes for a really warm look in stacked handles.
Pick up some nickel silver sheet to use along with it too.
Sheffield , K&G , Texas Knifemaker Supply all carry it.
Any time you get a gap load it up with super glue and hit it with some "Zip Kicker" to cure it immediatly. Buffs crystal clear too.
Great work man !
Craig
Copper makes for a really warm look in stacked handles.
Pick up some nickel silver sheet to use along with it too.
Sheffield , K&G , Texas Knifemaker Supply all carry it.
Any time you get a gap load it up with super glue and hit it with some "Zip Kicker" to cure it immediatly. Buffs crystal clear too.
Great work man !
Craig
Southernbuild
Well-known member
Wow, lots of improvement along the way, your knives are more awesome than ever
One question: Do you have a huge stockpile of dull hoof rasps, or are you using new rasps for your projects?
One question: Do you have a huge stockpile of dull hoof rasps, or are you using new rasps for your projects?
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Wow, lots of improvement along the way, your knives are more awesome than ever
One question: Do you have a huge stockpile of dull hoof rasps, or are you using new rasps for your projects?
Thanks!
and
Ha! no. I cant afford new rasp for knives...
With my Farrier business I go through a rasp every 20 horses or so, depending on how wet/dry its been. So I would say its safe to bet that at least 3 a week are being donated to the knife pile...There's currently about 40 in the shops pile and I have a 55 gallon pepper barrel at home thats filled to the top as the back up... The barrel probably has 200 or so in it.
each year adds another 156 to the stash so I should be set for a bit.
at 27$ a piece Im happy to find another use for them after they arnt sharp enough to plane feet anymore. Amity, thanks again! Great resourse tips!
JP
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Had my work rig go down for some repairs this week so I had some extra time in the shop. Got another three knives handled, and started forging the next batches blanks.
I also did a substantial amount of sitting in my shop chair, listening to records, and smoking cigars. I kinda needed to crank out some product the last few days, but couldnt really get motivated... oh well, I am really happy with the work that was done so thats worth something.
Heres the last of the brook pottery knives. I still need to finish the hunting knife but since its for myself im not sure when Ill get around to it.
To start here is a 7" slicer with a hidden tang White/Black Ebony and brass handle. I got this wood out of the scrap bin at the wood store. The B/W Ebony is stupid expensive so a 1"x1"x12" cut for 3$ looked great to me. Plus I have another section to use later.
It was really hard to photograph this one. The handle is pitched slightly upwards from the tang insertion to alow cutting clearence so it doesnt like to sit evenly, but I think you will get the idea. Aside from reshaping the brass bolster before assembly, I just mounted the 1"x1"x6" square onto the tang and started grinding... You cant really see it but it has a very comfortable swoop under the handle and the cupping feels really good. Since it has such a neat pattern i decided to leave the end natural and not put the brass cap on it.
Fitting the bolster isn't difficult as long as you grind the tang to match very slowly...lots of checking the fit to find the moment when it just barely clears it...any further and it gets sloppy pretty fast.
The second knife this week is a 7.5" Chop Knife. Im not sure what to call this one. Its a fairly usefull multipurpse chopping knife. Truthfully this shape isn't my favorite but they sell before I can finish them, and its one of the most liked items on the etsy store...sometimes its about what the customer wants and not what you want...
I used a really vibrant piece of Redheart Wood that I had, and jazzed it up with a Yellow heartwood and Rose wood accent stripe. I used the dark epoxy in the accent section again for contrast and Im really liking the effect.
It came out pretty good. I left some forge marks and scales on it to give it some character (i always over work the projects Im not happy with)
The last knife this week is a 6" Santoku with a Spalted Maple , Brass, and Bloodwood handle.
I played with the placement of the different sections a lot before finally deciding on this. Had to ask a friends advice a few times...He naturally chose the most complicated arrangemet, but it turned out ok in the end... Definitly one of the nicest knives ive finished so far.
Im planning a detailed post on the specific "blank Forging" process...I have learned some very important and necessary steps that i think will benefit those who are forging or will attempt to forge a knife... I might be able to get it done this weekend but it will just depend on way things flow at the shop.
Untill then heres a couple pics of the blanks as they are finished currently...the new system yields an even and flat product that makes the rest of the process simpler in every aspect...you know what "Fezzik" says..."back to the beginning"
A brief moment of philosophy:
I have a really hard time letting something go if its not perfect. I think it's a great strength, but it also means I will, as Ray would say... "push things to failure".
My wife obviously gets a good look at every finished piece and somehow never comments on what Im sure she will find. She has a very keen eye, and will not baby my work... She had to remind me that these are created from a recycled piece of metal...literally forged into something else... No handicaps or pre-fabed pieces... just a vison brought to reality, so a few bumps are expected...
Ive been pondering this today...trying to find a peace with it, and accept that I will probably never create the perfect knife. The imperfections are its perfection. They let the owner know they are apart of something real and tangible, created for them! and not for a demographic.
The garage Journal has seen a boom in users posting there projects lately and its a great thing! people using the resources to create, and explore what they are capable of doing... making real things, and being proud enough to show others there work.
So in a day and time when simulated hobbys are more prevelant than the actual act of doing them; Im proud to be apart of a group that is focused on the real and the tangible. Producing their ideas and pushing others to try for themsleves...
have a great weekend
JP
I also did a substantial amount of sitting in my shop chair, listening to records, and smoking cigars. I kinda needed to crank out some product the last few days, but couldnt really get motivated... oh well, I am really happy with the work that was done so thats worth something.
Heres the last of the brook pottery knives. I still need to finish the hunting knife but since its for myself im not sure when Ill get around to it.
To start here is a 7" slicer with a hidden tang White/Black Ebony and brass handle. I got this wood out of the scrap bin at the wood store. The B/W Ebony is stupid expensive so a 1"x1"x12" cut for 3$ looked great to me. Plus I have another section to use later.
It was really hard to photograph this one. The handle is pitched slightly upwards from the tang insertion to alow cutting clearence so it doesnt like to sit evenly, but I think you will get the idea. Aside from reshaping the brass bolster before assembly, I just mounted the 1"x1"x6" square onto the tang and started grinding... You cant really see it but it has a very comfortable swoop under the handle and the cupping feels really good. Since it has such a neat pattern i decided to leave the end natural and not put the brass cap on it.
Fitting the bolster isn't difficult as long as you grind the tang to match very slowly...lots of checking the fit to find the moment when it just barely clears it...any further and it gets sloppy pretty fast.
The second knife this week is a 7.5" Chop Knife. Im not sure what to call this one. Its a fairly usefull multipurpse chopping knife. Truthfully this shape isn't my favorite but they sell before I can finish them, and its one of the most liked items on the etsy store...sometimes its about what the customer wants and not what you want...
I used a really vibrant piece of Redheart Wood that I had, and jazzed it up with a Yellow heartwood and Rose wood accent stripe. I used the dark epoxy in the accent section again for contrast and Im really liking the effect.
It came out pretty good. I left some forge marks and scales on it to give it some character (i always over work the projects Im not happy with)
The last knife this week is a 6" Santoku with a Spalted Maple , Brass, and Bloodwood handle.
I played with the placement of the different sections a lot before finally deciding on this. Had to ask a friends advice a few times...He naturally chose the most complicated arrangemet, but it turned out ok in the end... Definitly one of the nicest knives ive finished so far.
Im planning a detailed post on the specific "blank Forging" process...I have learned some very important and necessary steps that i think will benefit those who are forging or will attempt to forge a knife... I might be able to get it done this weekend but it will just depend on way things flow at the shop.
Untill then heres a couple pics of the blanks as they are finished currently...the new system yields an even and flat product that makes the rest of the process simpler in every aspect...you know what "Fezzik" says..."back to the beginning"
A brief moment of philosophy:
I have a really hard time letting something go if its not perfect. I think it's a great strength, but it also means I will, as Ray would say... "push things to failure".
My wife obviously gets a good look at every finished piece and somehow never comments on what Im sure she will find. She has a very keen eye, and will not baby my work... She had to remind me that these are created from a recycled piece of metal...literally forged into something else... No handicaps or pre-fabed pieces... just a vison brought to reality, so a few bumps are expected...
Ive been pondering this today...trying to find a peace with it, and accept that I will probably never create the perfect knife. The imperfections are its perfection. They let the owner know they are apart of something real and tangible, created for them! and not for a demographic.
The garage Journal has seen a boom in users posting there projects lately and its a great thing! people using the resources to create, and explore what they are capable of doing... making real things, and being proud enough to show others there work.
So in a day and time when simulated hobbys are more prevelant than the actual act of doing them; Im proud to be apart of a group that is focused on the real and the tangible. Producing their ideas and pushing others to try for themsleves...
have a great weekend
JP
Last edited:
MP&C
Well-known member
Works of art! Those aren't imperfections, it's called character!
Last edited:
toms73novass
Well-known member
54FordPanel
Well-known member
(I don't want to be the guy that 'quotes' 13 pictures, so I won't repost all your pictures…)
Just want to say those are works of art. Absolutely beautiful.
Just FLIPPIN' AWESOME!
Keep up the great work, you're a craftsman.
Just want to say those are works of art. Absolutely beautiful.
Just FLIPPIN' AWESOME!
Keep up the great work, you're a craftsman.
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
So true!!
(I don't want to be the guy that 'quotes' 13 pictures, so I won't repost all your pictures…)
Just want to say those are works of art. Absolutely beautiful.
Just FLIPPIN' AWESOME!
Keep up the great work, you're a craftsman.
Thanks guys! I appreciate it.
My wife said the same thing MP&C...
Tom Im going to be bothering you alot over the next couple weeks...you have given me the confidence to attempt the heat treat oven...All the resources are local so I have no excuse..except I have no idea about electrical stuff...seem like that might be an issue...
Brad, you rock man. Perhaps I should venture into exotic plunger handles?
Ok, Im gonna work on the forging post for a bit but should have it up at some point tonight...
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
So for all you guys that just scan the pictures this is going to be the most unsatisfying post to date...
but heres one before you click back to the index
Lets talk about molecular alignment...
On the most basic level that what this post is about... another one of those "forrest through the trees" moments.
This whole blade building process is a series of steps that compound on top of each other. A mistake in the first step will haunt you through the rest of the build. That being said, it seemed a good place to begin to refine my process...
Forging the rasp into the "blanks" that I cut the knives from has always been a step in the process where I just focused on getting the deminsions of the steel correct...For example, if im trying to hit an even 3MM thickness on a flat forged pairing knife blank or if Im trying to taper 5MM down to 1MM across the whole blade width.
I was missing a very important part... Only as I have come to understand the het treating process more fully did I realize my error.
If you remember back in the middle of the last knife batch I posted a section on "fixing the warp"...and how I needed to normalize the blades before hardening to relieve the stresses that were causing the warp to happen in the first place. Well, Im correct that this normalization will aide in limiting the warp issue but I didnt connect the dots at that point.
Warpping happens because the molecules arnt aligned or evenly spaced throughout the blade... This could be uneven thickness in your grinding, uneven heat transfer, or an internal un-alignment of the molecules.
Its always what you cant see that kicks your ***. When forging the blanks I wasnt looking at internal molecular alignment. I was looking for deminsional correctness...and quite frankly just to finish that step and get onto the next.
So when you forge the blank you have to keep everything in line with its self. If you forge heavy on one side or cause a bend in the blank it wont matter if you achieve your thickness or if your pattern still fits inside the forged area. Just because you cut your blade out neatly doesnt mean the curve you created internally isnt there...waiting for you to harden the blade and pull and uneven force against that perfect grind you just worked so hard on...
In the photos I will try to show you what is happening and why its happening, but also show you how the corrected method worked out.
In these examples I forged two rasp into knife blanks...
One I forged with a complete mirrored technique. Meaning if I hit it 10 times down the center on one side the next heat I hit it 10 times down the center on the other side...no matter what I did to one side I repeated that process on the other before starting to work anywhere else.
The other I forged in a deminsion only approach for the first half of the process. This technique was heavy on one side with no flipping to the other side. After the molecules were completly out of line this rasp was forged back into straightness to finish the process...
(For reference when I say "A Heat" im refering to one cycle in the forge and on the anvil, if i need to heat something 3 times in order to accomplish my goal than its a "3 heat process" etc...)
ok here we go -
This photo shows the rasp that was forged only on the course side against an unforged straight rasp... After 3 heats down the center the blank is starting to turn towards the left...
After a few more heats - single sided center forging only. The curve is getting pretty bad.
Here we have both the blanks together. The mirror forged blank is on the right and the single sided blank is on the left. Notice how the right hand blank is even and straight compared to its countor part...
I apologize for the bad paint shop work but I think this will clarify the alignment issue...
In the photo I have drawn (badly) two identical knife blades that could be cut out of the blanks. On each blade there are lines running from the back to the tip. These lines will follow the molecular alignment with in the steel.
On the right side the blank is straight and in turn the molecules are straight so the lines follow evenly from top to bottom.
On the left the blank begins to curve in the area of the horizontal line . Notice that the vertical lines are even up untill the horizontal, and then turn off center to follow the direction of the molecules...
If you were to cut these two knives out you would have enough material but the one on the left has that internal miss alignment right through the tip of the blade... Because the two sets/areas of molecules are in different directions, when the are hardend (condensed or constricted) they move in different directions. This causes the uneven pull that becomes warp...
The blade on the right will have a much cleaner hardening because its flowing in the same direction.
Ok, so lets fix the curved issue since its bound to happen and we need to know how to correct our mistakes.
If you notice I have flipped the blank over to the fine side of the rasp. Since I only forged on the course side it makes since that if "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" then if I repeat what I did to the course side it will move everything back into center...
the lines show the direction it needs to move to re-align itself
After 3 heats forging down the center
after 6 heats forging down the center.... much better
I am willing to bet that I will have issues with this blade even though I put it back into some mannor of alignment because of how far out it got but we will have to wait and see.
The next part isnt difficult but you need to pay attention so you can perform it evenly on both sides...remember the blanks molecules are aligned in both the vertical and horizontal planes so you can jack them up just as bad in this direction as well...
The markings show the way I work back and forth across the file. flattening it as evenly as possible.
after a few heats, and notice that at the point of the horizontal mark the blank is starting to get out of alignment again...but in the other plane this time.
This is much easier to adjust than the first issue, and the flattening process at the end of your forging process should realign most of this for you.
but heres one before you click back to the index
Lets talk about molecular alignment...
On the most basic level that what this post is about... another one of those "forrest through the trees" moments.
This whole blade building process is a series of steps that compound on top of each other. A mistake in the first step will haunt you through the rest of the build. That being said, it seemed a good place to begin to refine my process...
Forging the rasp into the "blanks" that I cut the knives from has always been a step in the process where I just focused on getting the deminsions of the steel correct...For example, if im trying to hit an even 3MM thickness on a flat forged pairing knife blank or if Im trying to taper 5MM down to 1MM across the whole blade width.
I was missing a very important part... Only as I have come to understand the het treating process more fully did I realize my error.
If you remember back in the middle of the last knife batch I posted a section on "fixing the warp"...and how I needed to normalize the blades before hardening to relieve the stresses that were causing the warp to happen in the first place. Well, Im correct that this normalization will aide in limiting the warp issue but I didnt connect the dots at that point.
Warpping happens because the molecules arnt aligned or evenly spaced throughout the blade... This could be uneven thickness in your grinding, uneven heat transfer, or an internal un-alignment of the molecules.
Its always what you cant see that kicks your ***. When forging the blanks I wasnt looking at internal molecular alignment. I was looking for deminsional correctness...and quite frankly just to finish that step and get onto the next.
So when you forge the blank you have to keep everything in line with its self. If you forge heavy on one side or cause a bend in the blank it wont matter if you achieve your thickness or if your pattern still fits inside the forged area. Just because you cut your blade out neatly doesnt mean the curve you created internally isnt there...waiting for you to harden the blade and pull and uneven force against that perfect grind you just worked so hard on...
In the photos I will try to show you what is happening and why its happening, but also show you how the corrected method worked out.
In these examples I forged two rasp into knife blanks...
One I forged with a complete mirrored technique. Meaning if I hit it 10 times down the center on one side the next heat I hit it 10 times down the center on the other side...no matter what I did to one side I repeated that process on the other before starting to work anywhere else.
The other I forged in a deminsion only approach for the first half of the process. This technique was heavy on one side with no flipping to the other side. After the molecules were completly out of line this rasp was forged back into straightness to finish the process...
(For reference when I say "A Heat" im refering to one cycle in the forge and on the anvil, if i need to heat something 3 times in order to accomplish my goal than its a "3 heat process" etc...)
ok here we go -
This photo shows the rasp that was forged only on the course side against an unforged straight rasp... After 3 heats down the center the blank is starting to turn towards the left...
After a few more heats - single sided center forging only. The curve is getting pretty bad.
Here we have both the blanks together. The mirror forged blank is on the right and the single sided blank is on the left. Notice how the right hand blank is even and straight compared to its countor part...
I apologize for the bad paint shop work but I think this will clarify the alignment issue...
In the photo I have drawn (badly) two identical knife blades that could be cut out of the blanks. On each blade there are lines running from the back to the tip. These lines will follow the molecular alignment with in the steel.
On the right side the blank is straight and in turn the molecules are straight so the lines follow evenly from top to bottom.
On the left the blank begins to curve in the area of the horizontal line . Notice that the vertical lines are even up untill the horizontal, and then turn off center to follow the direction of the molecules...
If you were to cut these two knives out you would have enough material but the one on the left has that internal miss alignment right through the tip of the blade... Because the two sets/areas of molecules are in different directions, when the are hardend (condensed or constricted) they move in different directions. This causes the uneven pull that becomes warp...
The blade on the right will have a much cleaner hardening because its flowing in the same direction.
Ok, so lets fix the curved issue since its bound to happen and we need to know how to correct our mistakes.
If you notice I have flipped the blank over to the fine side of the rasp. Since I only forged on the course side it makes since that if "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" then if I repeat what I did to the course side it will move everything back into center...
the lines show the direction it needs to move to re-align itself
After 3 heats forging down the center
after 6 heats forging down the center.... much better
I am willing to bet that I will have issues with this blade even though I put it back into some mannor of alignment because of how far out it got but we will have to wait and see.
The next part isnt difficult but you need to pay attention so you can perform it evenly on both sides...remember the blanks molecules are aligned in both the vertical and horizontal planes so you can jack them up just as bad in this direction as well...
The markings show the way I work back and forth across the file. flattening it as evenly as possible.
after a few heats, and notice that at the point of the horizontal mark the blank is starting to get out of alignment again...but in the other plane this time.
This is much easier to adjust than the first issue, and the flattening process at the end of your forging process should realign most of this for you.
Last edited:
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
To forge in the taper its important to give yourself a marker so you remember which side you are making the cutting edge.. Its seem like a "DuH" but you try it with out one and see how many mistaken blows you make.
Remeber! pay attention...your marks are in opposition on each side in order to face the same edge...
The forging here is a series of overlapping blows walking down the blank from the tickest to the thinest point...You might need 3 heats to do an entire side but its my recommendation that you swich sides each heat...again, keeping the molecules from getting over forged on one side...
heres an example of a blank with the taper forged into it. The blades shape can be whatever you like but the thickness and taper will be even because you forged it that way...
and this one is a flat 3 MM for cutting out the smaller pairing and finishing knives
Ive been selling the same basic shapes and handles and customizing the handle materials for each client. Since people kinda expect their knives to look like the photos they are ordering from I made a set of templates. When I make a knife i really like I a add it to the group so I can repeat it if necessary.
To scale
From here its the same as before...get some coffee, a stool, and a cigar and belly up to the band saw... (best sticker ever!)
So I barely finished the last batch and this is what i got done this weekend...along with some other stuff, but reguardless...here we go again. There is still another chef and Santoku to forge but these and those two will get me caught up for the moment. I just need to put my head down and get another soild push to get them done and out the door...
as a side note:
I tried to find something cool within the olympics to inspire a project at the shop... I was facinated by the skeleton and bob sled events...so I made little 5" chef Utility that I have named "The Bob Sled" Im keeping this one for myself...
Well, thats about it for this one. I hope it wasnt to confusing. If anyone has questions ask because your rarely the only one thinking what your thinking and everybody benefits.
I gotta buckle down and shoe a bunch of horses this week. So with some night shifts at the shop in my future Im gonna be one wore out SOB by saturday night... But thats truthfully my favorite feeling..
Thanks and have a great week!
JP
Remeber! pay attention...your marks are in opposition on each side in order to face the same edge...
The forging here is a series of overlapping blows walking down the blank from the tickest to the thinest point...You might need 3 heats to do an entire side but its my recommendation that you swich sides each heat...again, keeping the molecules from getting over forged on one side...
heres an example of a blank with the taper forged into it. The blades shape can be whatever you like but the thickness and taper will be even because you forged it that way...
and this one is a flat 3 MM for cutting out the smaller pairing and finishing knives
Ive been selling the same basic shapes and handles and customizing the handle materials for each client. Since people kinda expect their knives to look like the photos they are ordering from I made a set of templates. When I make a knife i really like I a add it to the group so I can repeat it if necessary.
To scale
From here its the same as before...get some coffee, a stool, and a cigar and belly up to the band saw... (best sticker ever!)
So I barely finished the last batch and this is what i got done this weekend...along with some other stuff, but reguardless...here we go again. There is still another chef and Santoku to forge but these and those two will get me caught up for the moment. I just need to put my head down and get another soild push to get them done and out the door...
as a side note:
I tried to find something cool within the olympics to inspire a project at the shop...
I was facinated by the skeleton and bob sled events...so I made little 5" chef Utility that I have named "The Bob Sled" Im keeping this one for myself...
Well, thats about it for this one. I hope it wasnt to confusing. If anyone has questions ask because your rarely the only one thinking what your thinking and everybody benefits.
I gotta buckle down and shoe a bunch of horses this week. So with some night shifts at the shop in my future Im gonna be one wore out SOB by saturday night... But thats truthfully my favorite feeling..
Thanks and have a great week!
JP
Last edited:
toms73novass
Well-known member
except I have no idea about electrical stuff...seem like that might be an issue...
.
Just let me know, I can send you links to supplies and give you diagrams.
I'll post up the relays and controller links from ebay.
Do you have a 240v plug in your shop?
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Yes I do have 240
And ill message you when I finish shoeing today about a parts list.
Thankyou!!
JP
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Just wanted to show you guys a cool pick my wife sent me today....
She went to buy a gift at at the Store thats carrying my products... I havent been in since I dropped off the stuff a couple weeks ago...
Anyway, she walked in the front door and the first thing you walk into is this..
admittedly I got a pretty big grin and felt damn good for a few minutes....
Then I rememberd I had a blade in the forge for hardening...Doh!
Moving right along,
6 for 6 today and no warp in 5. Minimal warp in the cleaver but its an obvious grind thickness issue...its so minor I bet the temper will pull it out but otherwise it will be taken care of when I fix the thickness issues.
Kinda a wierd feeling with this batch...4 of the six are sold and have pre determined handles that were decided on by the client so the creativity factor is a little low...
On a second amazing note for the day...this guy walked into the shop...Old! carbon steel cleaver and its massive! Guy wants a new handle for it and the cutting edge sharpend but no patina damage. I agree!
Alright, off to bed and back to work tomorrow and friday...then get to a 2 yr old B-day party for a friend kid saturday, some farrier work both saturday and Sunday, and somehow finish this order by saturday night for a sunday pick up... lol...Living the dream
JP
A wise man once said..."if you work really hard, 8 hours a day and do the best job you can. Then one day you can become the owner and work 12! "
She went to buy a gift at at the Store thats carrying my products... I havent been in since I dropped off the stuff a couple weeks ago...
Anyway, she walked in the front door and the first thing you walk into is this..
admittedly I got a pretty big grin and felt damn good for a few minutes....
Then I rememberd I had a blade in the forge for hardening...Doh!
Moving right along,
6 for 6 today and no warp in 5. Minimal warp in the cleaver but its an obvious grind thickness issue...its so minor I bet the temper will pull it out but otherwise it will be taken care of when I fix the thickness issues.
Kinda a wierd feeling with this batch...4 of the six are sold and have pre determined handles that were decided on by the client so the creativity factor is a little low...
On a second amazing note for the day...this guy walked into the shop...Old! carbon steel cleaver and its massive! Guy wants a new handle for it and the cutting edge sharpend but no patina damage. I agree!
Alright, off to bed and back to work tomorrow and friday...then get to a 2 yr old B-day party for a friend kid saturday, some farrier work both saturday and Sunday, and somehow finish this order by saturday night for a sunday pick up... lol...Living the dream
JP
A wise man once said..."if you work really hard, 8 hours a day and do the best job you can. Then one day you can become the owner and work 12! "
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OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Before the update I want to say thankyou to Toms73novass! He went out of his way to get me a parts list for the heat treat oven. Thanks to him I'm ordering the parts tonight and picking up the necessary materials from the refractory supply wednesday afternoon. Should be running heating cycles by the middle of the month!
Thanks!
Had a good week this week, but had to really put in the overtime to get caught up. Its feels nice to be sitting a few weeks out from my next orders shipping deadline though.
No real information to update on the process so mostly just a news and picture post tonight.
The Brooke Pottery Knife order is finished and thats a BIG! load off my shoulders. Getting a couple knives and a board or two finished in a week is cake, but trying to pump out this much at once is intense to say the least.
I will not play down how cool it feels to look at the work layed on the table in front of me...
The wood slices are for a collaborated build of two 8" chefs. My friend from Illinois got The wood is from a dairy barn outside bloomington, Illinois. It was built in 1898...not bad looking stuff for 116 years old. The figure is incredible and will make amazing handles. Plus the knives made from this wood will be 99% recycled materials....and have a toatlly sweet story..."yah, its only 4 or 5 generation old wood but its no big deal )
the "old Hickory" is in for refurb...lol, I didnt make that one..
Ill be making a really big serving platter soon (20"x24"), and just took an order for a butcher block Island top...24"x48''x1.75" with a 1.5" lip so it can set over the exsisting surface without showing any of the current material. Im not sure exactly how Im gonna set it up but im imagining the outer row of the board having the extension cut into itself. That will keep it from having a seam, and insure my joints line up around the edge. Plus it will make the top look over 3" thick and that's rad!
Thanks to the GJ and you guys this is a pretty easy build at this point...before christmas I wouldn't have been able to get this right, but since I now understand that muliple glue ups are the way to go its just a matter of tuning the blades equally and spacing the sections out over a week or so for glue and clamping. The top will use Ambrosia maple for the bulk of the wood with Bloodwood and purple heartwood accent stripes...I kept the design simple with solid rows to minimize miss alignment. The ambrosia is so random and unique that I think it will accomplish the break up of the space eqaully if not better than the checker board oak/poplar mix. Ill post the process...Aggie, turn your phone on silent because im probably gonna be blowing it up soon...maybe even at 1Am...
Got a 20%off sale opportunity at the wood store...I took full advantage.
Knife handle materials... Various Redwood Burls, some Blue dyed Burl, Buckeye Burl, and Spalted Pecan. The brick of wood in the back is Spalted Mapel Burl and will resaw into pure knife handle gold...The Santoku from a few post ago with the bloodwood and brass handle used this wood type as the cool section in the front of the handle...also got some tulip wood, Lignum Vitae(super rare!!!), bacote scales, and some Wenge(pronounced - Wain-ge)
Heres some pictures from this weeks knives. One of the orders was for a pairing knife, boning knife, and a mini cleaver with handles that fit the same style as one that was purchased by a familiy for their dads christmas present. He recieved the drop point utility with the first laminate I made from the mixed exotics... In order to reproduce it I just glued a stack of scraps togther that would be thick enough for two 3/8" scales to be cut from, and used the thin serving board scrap laminate for the smaller knives. He came with his wife today and picked them up. Cool thing was he didnt know he was coming, thought he was getting dragged to "help a friend move furniture" on his birthday ...Suprise!
Welcome to the doghouse, and here's a stack of handforged knives...Lucky dude!
He was stoked and really enjoyed seeing the different stations and knives in various stages of completion. The only negative was I was cleaning the shop for their arrival and forgot to take good pictures of the three he was picking up. Luckily he sent one when he got them home and had matched them up with the orginal...Pretty neat set of knives he has...definitly one of a kind.
Serving board and the handle second from the bottom were the christmas presesnt...
This pairing and utility were made to replace the ones sold unexpectedly around valentines day. The pairing has Spalted Pecan and aluminum pins and the Utility has Rosewood with brass pins... ( i need a better way to seal the rosewood that wont darken it...In person it still has good color but it looses some to the sealer)
Thanks!
Had a good week this week, but had to really put in the overtime to get caught up. Its feels nice to be sitting a few weeks out from my next orders shipping deadline though.
No real information to update on the process so mostly just a news and picture post tonight.
The Brooke Pottery Knife order is finished and thats a BIG! load off my shoulders. Getting a couple knives and a board or two finished in a week is cake, but trying to pump out this much at once is intense to say the least.
I will not play down how cool it feels to look at the work layed on the table in front of me...
The wood slices are for a collaborated build of two 8" chefs. My friend from Illinois got The wood is from a dairy barn outside bloomington, Illinois. It was built in 1898...not bad looking stuff for 116 years old. The figure is incredible and will make amazing handles. Plus the knives made from this wood will be 99% recycled materials....and have a toatlly sweet story..."yah, its only 4 or 5 generation old wood but its no big deal
)the "old Hickory" is in for refurb...lol, I didnt make that one..
Ill be making a really big serving platter soon (20"x24"), and just took an order for a butcher block Island top...24"x48''x1.75" with a 1.5" lip so it can set over the exsisting surface without showing any of the current material. Im not sure exactly how Im gonna set it up but im imagining the outer row of the board having the extension cut into itself. That will keep it from having a seam, and insure my joints line up around the edge. Plus it will make the top look over 3" thick and that's rad!
Thanks to the GJ and you guys this is a pretty easy build at this point...before christmas I wouldn't have been able to get this right, but since I now understand that muliple glue ups are the way to go its just a matter of tuning the blades equally and spacing the sections out over a week or so for glue and clamping. The top will use Ambrosia maple for the bulk of the wood with Bloodwood and purple heartwood accent stripes...I kept the design simple with solid rows to minimize miss alignment. The ambrosia is so random and unique that I think it will accomplish the break up of the space eqaully if not better than the checker board oak/poplar mix. Ill post the process...Aggie, turn your phone on silent because im probably gonna be blowing it up soon...maybe even at 1Am...
Got a 20%off sale opportunity at the wood store...I took full advantage.
Knife handle materials... Various Redwood Burls, some Blue dyed Burl, Buckeye Burl, and Spalted Pecan. The brick of wood in the back is Spalted Mapel Burl and will resaw into pure knife handle gold...The Santoku from a few post ago with the bloodwood and brass handle used this wood type as the cool section in the front of the handle...also got some tulip wood, Lignum Vitae(super rare!!!), bacote scales, and some Wenge(pronounced - Wain-ge)
Heres some pictures from this weeks knives. One of the orders was for a pairing knife, boning knife, and a mini cleaver with handles that fit the same style as one that was purchased by a familiy for their dads christmas present. He recieved the drop point utility with the first laminate I made from the mixed exotics... In order to reproduce it I just glued a stack of scraps togther that would be thick enough for two 3/8" scales to be cut from, and used the thin serving board scrap laminate for the smaller knives. He came with his wife today and picked them up. Cool thing was he didnt know he was coming, thought he was getting dragged to "help a friend move furniture" on his birthday
...Suprise! Welcome to the doghouse, and here's a stack of handforged knives...Lucky dude!
He was stoked and really enjoyed seeing the different stations and knives in various stages of completion. The only negative was I was cleaning the shop for their arrival and forgot to take good pictures of the three he was picking up. Luckily he sent one when he got them home and had matched them up with the orginal...Pretty neat set of knives he has...definitly one of a kind.
Serving board and the handle second from the bottom were the christmas presesnt...
This pairing and utility were made to replace the ones sold unexpectedly around valentines day. The pairing has Spalted Pecan and aluminum pins and the Utility has Rosewood with brass pins... ( i need a better way to seal the rosewood that wont darken it...In person it still has good color but it looses some to the sealer)
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OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
The 8" Chef was ordered with the cut away spine and a pure Redwood Burl handle...Im pretty happy with this one...The copper washes a bit so aluminum might have been a better option, but its still a good looking knife. Ships out tuesday for a Chef in Oakland California...
Its going to a real chef so It had to be perfect! Balanced baby!
Got a mixed week this week, but still busy..should find some daylight shop time instead of the 8pm-1am shift Ive been working...
I was starting to loose it by last friday night...
More updates as I finish them...
Thanks!
JP
Just in case no body believes I actually shoe horses.
Im gonna try to do more of this. Im blessed to have some incredible barns to work at so when I get the chance Ill post them. Farriery is cool and pretty darn peacefull.
If they ever figure out a way to upload short videos into the threads ill post a horse getting shod for you guys to see.
Its going to a real chef so It had to be perfect! Balanced baby!
Got a mixed week this week, but still busy..should find some daylight shop time instead of the 8pm-1am shift Ive been working...
I was starting to loose it by last friday night...
More updates as I finish them...
Thanks!
JP
Just in case no body believes I actually shoe horses.
Im gonna try to do more of this. Im blessed to have some incredible barns to work at so when I get the chance Ill post them. Farriery is cool and pretty darn peacefull.
If they ever figure out a way to upload short videos into the threads ill post a horse getting shod for you guys to see.
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MP&C
Well-known member
Awesome to see the store display, some nice looking stuff. You ever get any visitors, I may have a trip to FL in the next month. Went about three weeks ago and dropped in on one of the guys from metalmeet.
aggierailroad
Well-known member
I figured you would have taken more inspiration from the figure skating department, rather than bob sledding, given your tender sensibilities and slender physique.
I'm back!
I'm back!
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
you bet! Just tell me the day and ill clear my book. Sometimes self employed has its perks, lol
The men wear to many rhinestones, and the women fell alot! Not inspirational in the least...
as for my slender physique... ha! 5'9" and 170lbs... 50lbs of thst is made up of my right forearm.
Am glad you're back, people were being nice so your replies will balance things back out
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Those stands are handly. A little light for really pounding on daily, but for a hobbiest with limited space the vice and stand combo is a great deal for the price. I had one when I first started shoeing horses, and later had the "stump". both great products.
His tools are good quality for the money and would serve any beginner well. Ive personally used one of his forge swing arms for years with zero issue where the other brands fail repeatedly.
With All due respect I must disagree with Cliffs Anvils being ideal for a beginner blacksmith. His anvils are built specificly for modifying pre-manufactured horseshoes. The Flat horn is useless for anything other than opening a shoe wider than it came out of the box. Even building the most basic handmade shoes or shaping a toe is difficult because there is no radius to the horn. The Camms attached to the side of the anvil are a generic way to close the heel of a light horseshoe. Necessay once again because there is no radius to the horn in which to create it with. Horses hooves are continuously flowing, not segmented into a series of bends. The same can be applied to scroll work or artistic forging. These anvils serve a "cold Shoers" approach to shoeing and do not lend well to any other use. Anyone that wishes to develope a fundemental skill set in forging cannot do so on these anvils due to the limitations of shape and design. Ones money would be better spent on a basic used traditional blacksmithing anvil than on the gimmicky approach these anvils utilize.
sorry for the rant... I have a little issue with the farrier trades currently diminished skill set. Products like these incourage new farriers to skip the basics, follow short cuts, and "hack" their way through the process. Becasue they havent learned any different they dont realize the damage they cause to both the horses and the industry with there lack of education and generic poor quality workmanship.
JP
His tools are good quality for the money and would serve any beginner well. Ive personally used one of his forge swing arms for years with zero issue where the other brands fail repeatedly.
With All due respect I must disagree with Cliffs Anvils being ideal for a beginner blacksmith. His anvils are built specificly for modifying pre-manufactured horseshoes. The Flat horn is useless for anything other than opening a shoe wider than it came out of the box. Even building the most basic handmade shoes or shaping a toe is difficult because there is no radius to the horn. The Camms attached to the side of the anvil are a generic way to close the heel of a light horseshoe. Necessay once again because there is no radius to the horn in which to create it with. Horses hooves are continuously flowing, not segmented into a series of bends. The same can be applied to scroll work or artistic forging. These anvils serve a "cold Shoers" approach to shoeing and do not lend well to any other use. Anyone that wishes to develope a fundemental skill set in forging cannot do so on these anvils due to the limitations of shape and design. Ones money would be better spent on a basic used traditional blacksmithing anvil than on the gimmicky approach these anvils utilize.
sorry for the rant... I have a little issue with the farrier trades currently diminished skill set. Products like these incourage new farriers to skip the basics, follow short cuts, and "hack" their way through the process. Becasue they havent learned any different they dont realize the damage they cause to both the horses and the industry with there lack of education and generic poor quality workmanship.
JP
aggierailroad
Well-known member
Have any good anvil brands, styles, weights etc. for the beginner?
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
it's not really about brand but more about function. An anvils horn should have radius from the point all the way back to the face. the roundness in the horn is what allows you to flow the shape into the material. without it you're basically just kinking the material repeatedly so you end up with a series of broken adjustments instead of a flowing a piece of material. Some brands, not just cliffs are specifically made for modifying horseshoes. they're essentially a heavy single location for a bunch of shortcuts. A blacksmith doesn't need cams because he has a round horn and can turn the material, a blacksmith doesn't need a flat face horn because he's not closing horseshoes by hitting the sides together, and he instead understands how to set his toe width on the radius of the horn.
this anvil goes straight to the core root of my issue between the words horseshoer and farrier. Horseshoers get by with shortcuts and a farrier is a blacksmith that understands the art of moving metal and possesses the educational ability to properly balanced and shoe a horse.
there are too many blacksmith anvils to name but it would be wise for someone wishing to work on their skills and develop the fundamentals for forging to avoid anvils advertised specifically as "farrier" or "horseshoes" anvils.
again I am sorry for the rant, as it is not the purpose of this thread, and I apologize to 805Gregg as I'm sure he was in no way thinking that I would go off the deep end with his recommendation of Cliffs anvils.
true craftsmanship, artistry, and thousands of years of developing this trade are spit on when individuals decide better to dumb down a tool in order to make money offering a product for the untrained masses. It gives the nod to the idea that you don't really need to understand something you just need to be able to get by. While that may work in a lot of trades the field of farriery is not one of them. To those of us who have spent countless hours at the anvil learning our fundamentals and learning why we do what we do products like these don't progress our trade they destroy it.
Jp
this anvil goes straight to the core root of my issue between the words horseshoer and farrier. Horseshoers get by with shortcuts and a farrier is a blacksmith that understands the art of moving metal and possesses the educational ability to properly balanced and shoe a horse.
there are too many blacksmith anvils to name but it would be wise for someone wishing to work on their skills and develop the fundamentals for forging to avoid anvils advertised specifically as "farrier" or "horseshoes" anvils.
again I am sorry for the rant, as it is not the purpose of this thread, and I apologize to 805Gregg as I'm sure he was in no way thinking that I would go off the deep end with his recommendation of Cliffs anvils.
true craftsmanship, artistry, and thousands of years of developing this trade are spit on when individuals decide better to dumb down a tool in order to make money offering a product for the untrained masses. It gives the nod to the idea that you don't really need to understand something you just need to be able to get by. While that may work in a lot of trades the field of farriery is not one of them. To those of us who have spent countless hours at the anvil learning our fundamentals and learning why we do what we do products like these don't progress our trade they destroy it.
Jp
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Southernbuild
Well-known member
Thanks!
and
Ha! no. I cant afford new rasp for knives...
With my Farrier business I go through a rasp every 20 horses or so, depending on how wet/dry its been. So I would say its safe to bet that at least 3 a week are being donated to the knife pile...There's currently about 40 in the shops pile and I have a 55 gallon pepper barrel at home thats filled to the top as the back up... The barrel probably has 200 or so in it.
each year adds another 156 to the stash so I should be set for a bit.
Amity, thanks again! Great resourse tips!
JP
That makes sense, I knew hoof rasps were pretty expensive, I just had no idea they would dull that fast.
Southernbuild
Well-known member
Another question, is there any particular steel you would recommend for someone interested in trying their hand making some knives, that doesn't have a pile of old rasps on hand?
I've been interested in the forging process for years, I think your about to push me over the edge into trying it! I've sorta got access to an anvil, its just going to take a lot of work and some creative thinking to actually get. My friend has it in storage, about 30 feet from the door, completely surrounded by piles of random stuff.... ie, no room to get a dolly to it, and its sorta heave to carry by hand.
I'm open to any ideas!
I've been interested in the forging process for years, I think your about to push me over the edge into trying it! I've sorta got access to an anvil, its just going to take a lot of work and some creative thinking to actually get. My friend has it in storage, about 30 feet from the door, completely surrounded by piles of random stuff.... ie, no room to get a dolly to it, and its sorta heave to carry by hand.
I'm open to any ideas!
OP
DoghouseForge
Well-known member
Another question, is there any particular steel you would recommend for someone interested in trying their hand making some knives, that doesn't have a pile of old rasps on hand?
I've been interested in the forging process for years, I think your about to push me over the edge into trying it! I've sorta got access to an anvil, its just going to take a lot of work and some creative thinking to actually get. My friend has it in storage, about 30 feet from the door, completely surrounded by piles of random stuff.... ie, no room to get a dolly to it, and its sorta heave to carry by hand.
I'm open to any ideas!
heres the Junkyard steel list,
Back in post 147 i go over how to break the number system down...
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200204&page=8
a good one to look for is pre 90's car and truck leaf springs and main tie rods.
Its a pretty easy steel to break down for the heat treatment process for knifes:
a quick goggle search of the "steel type + heat treatment" found this:
1085 - means carbon steel, no addatives, and 85% carbon content.
Oil hardend
1085 carbon Steel Goal hardness - 60-62 Rockwell:
Heat to - 1450F Soak 15 - 20mins and oil quench. Temper at 375-500F for 2hours . (higher temper heat is lower range of rockwell)
as a reference the most commonly used blade steel is 1095 so for the a junkyard price range 1085 is well worth the effort.
1095 in 1/8" x 1-1/2" x 12" = $7.95/ft
a pack of junk leaf springs would be 1/4"x3"x4.5' ? times 4 or 5 in a pack for $20or so... at that thickness you could forge the 3 " down to 5 or 6 " easily for larger knives...or forge a section into a 1/8" blank that you could cut a bunch of blanks from. one spring pack would be a **** ton of steel once you forge it down...
(hydraulic oil is a good quenching oil and doesnt cost near as much as "quenching oil" )
an easy knife build is to take a wide bandsaw blade and gring it into a fillet knife...you need to keep it cool and dunk it after evey pass but if you carefull you can have an alredy heat treated fillet blade to handle without a forge or hammer needed...since its thin you could use files and stones to get your edge...
as for your anvil... if its in good shape and weighs over 100lbs it would cost you no less than $350 to buy it...So if moving stuff is worth less than $350 Id say get moving...
If its 150lb + your talking $500plus so its even more worth while...
you can always round up a buddy...use two short 2x4's and slide one under the heel and one under the horn...kinda gives you handles instead of trying to lift it by itself.
Good luck and post your attempts!
JP
Southernbuild
Well-known member
Wow! Awesome info, thanks SO much for the explanation 
I will def keep you posted about my quest.
Now, on to look for springs, and plan an anvil recovery mission.
I will def keep you posted about my quest. Now, on to look for springs, and plan an anvil recovery mission.