Right. GEC is required to be sized different than the bond as I recall but,,, that is recollection. I believe for bond it is the largest circuit likely to be energized and inspector didn't blink at 10 to gas on my last job and he was a pro. The other exception is to a steel building frame, like a modular etc,, 8 for 100 and 6 for 200.
no. bonds are sized based on what they are bonding to. has nothing to do with largest circuit that may energize them which is what table 250.122 is all about.
8 for 100 and 6 for 200 isnt a bond size. Thats an EGC size in a feeder. Table 250.122 dictates that.
You are the one confusing things.
please re-read what I said ...Its one ground called earth ground, I tend not to use misuse the word 'ground' the branch green wires I call SE safety earth.
see they how they twist and turn.
are u from austrailia? yes you are the one who is confusing things.
No where in the NEC is an equipment grounding conductor called an "SE safety earth" or "earth ground".
That right there shows that u are speaking from experience with a foreign electrical system and dont know how an equipment grounding conductor provides a low impedance pathway for fault current.
The "earth" has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with clearing fault current.
yes you are confusing things. Please read the article i posted above.
The way an EGC works is it provides a low impedance fault current pathway via the connection to the neutral bus bar in the main service panel. Without this bonded neutral bar, there is no short circuit pathway established between hot and ground.
I have been on many service calls where either this bond was not present in the main panel or the plumbing wasnt bonded to the neutral bar and the plumbing ended up getting energized because of a separate issue. The breaker of the offending circuit did not know to trip because of the missing neutral bar bond.
Again, please try to understand that the "earth" doesnt provide any kind of fault current pathway WHATSOEVER.
Wherever or however u learned this, it is wrong!!
Grounding electrodes and the GEC connected to them is for grounding lightning. Due to earth's relatively high impedance, the current from a short circuit will not be a high enough magnitude after flowing through earth to cause a breaker to trip.
that's the safety return for fault currents on each branch. aka the 3rd wire its either green or bare. These are all 'bonded' together properly at the panel (use a modern panel with national safety approvals and you don't have to think about it too much)
Please tell me which NEC article calls an EGC a "safety return".
and there is no such thing as "national safety approvals". NTLs (national testing laboratories, such as U/L(that u claim to work at; below) dont
APPROVE anything. THEY LIST. But u should know this if you work there...
BTW what do u do at U/L?
I reckon it depends what end of the stick yer looking from. I'm usually at the customer equipment end / Underwriters Laboratories u know the guys that deal with safety (where the rubber meets the road.)
There is no variance. NEC code calls it an EGC. Its not a safety earth SE or any of that other jargon you refer to it as.
SE definition never changes, NEC cant make up their minds
Again please show me where "SE" is in the NEC....The NEC has never changed their minds on this subject so Im not sure where u pulled that out of....
The point we were trying to make was while they are bonded together it's point is not to go to earth.
exactly
The earth has NOTHING to do with fault current pathways.
no go to earth ground at the main panel, really? the expert here is already talking 2 buried rods not more than 5 ft it?
yes the OP has multiple things going on here. The rods are for lightning suppression. And min spacing is 6' not 5'....
This is a separate subject than the gas line bonding which u have not brought up again despite giving incorrect advise to not bond it. Or the EGC subject....
i think reading comprehension is getting the best of you...
No one said it didn't get hooked to earth, the point is that it is supposed to get hooked to neutral service main, the earth is NOT a fault return path.
exactly. Im not sure if we are having a comprehension issue here with Infinia or a lack of understanding on his part.
sorry I don't know who 'we' ,'they' or it, is in reference to.
care to buy a noun or two.
NM I'll leave the OP in your,( their) hands. have fun!
sberry was referring to him and I.
First - I really appreciate all of the input, even though I didn't intend it to, it seemed to have derailed just a tad.
I'll hopefully complete the rough by the week after next.
For the record, I am in the process of collecting information and I am taking what I can get. As you mentioned (Infinia) it is really up to what the inspector wants and ultimately, that is going to dictate the final outcome, right or wrong. I do actually appreciate the initial comments on trying to find and electrician to inspect the work and be here for the inspection, that was actually solid advice.
I am not an electrician I don't claim to be. I like learning things and the best way that I know how to do that, is by taking bits of information from multiple sources. Not just one person, one book, etc. I appreciate all the time everyone took to respond. I am able to learn and take bits from EVERYONE that contributed and for that I thank you.
I hope maybe one day I can help some of you with some advice that I have gained through my profession.
That is actually misleading. The inspector cant want or require u to do something that is not code or a local amendment. And many inspectors have no idea what theyre talking about.
right on the money as usual...