Bought a broken compressor. Looking for advice

[katit]

Ok, so here I was looking for compressor: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=426572

And found one local.. But broken.. $150 and it's now in my garage.
2017, all great cosmetics and overall shape. But crankshaft broken! And case broken too.

It's a $2300 compressor. I figured I can do something to it.
Quick search showed that new pump will be $1500+

What is your advice? I'm good with mechanics and engines. I can fix lots of stuff.

My choices in order of preference:
1. Take pump apart and if it's crankshaft + case (which it seems what it is) - I want to replace them and fix what I have.
2. Buy non-original 2-stage pump with similar specs and replace.
3. Try to find either used replacement or good deal on new original pump (doubt)

What do you think? Was it stupid to jump on this? What would you do, any pointers for parts or replacement pumps?

 

[454ragtop]

First off, you're fine money wise, that motor is worth at least that. I'd look for either a used head, or a used 3 ph. compressor with a good head, and swap it over to your compressor.

 

[katit]

or a used 3 ph. compressor with a good head, and swap it over to your compressor.

Do you mean compressor with 3 phase motor (like industrial)? With bigger head?
When I pick a head, what should I know?
Right now I only now it's two stage and it's 17.7CFM at 90psi

I guess my main questions will be RPM and CFM ratings for pump?

 

[Citation]

How much performance do you need from this project? Basically are you OK going down market with the pump? At the low end, say under $150 you could buy the HF "5hp" pump (around $150 with 20% off coupon).
https://www.harborfreight.com/145-psi-5-hp-twin-cylinder-air-compressor-pump-67698.html
This has about the same CFM as the original pump but lower peak pressure (single stage) and almost certainly can't handle the work load. However, for less than $300 total you would have a heck of a good compressor.

If not, I would suggest just keeping your eyes open for a deal on just about any decent 5hp pump or a compressor with a bad tank but good pump etc.

 

[The Cobbler]

you ****!

 

[rsanter]

I would have bought it for that.

I would look at a couple of options....

I would look to buy another compressor with a bad tank and salvage the compressor to use on that one.

I would look at non original compressors to put on it.

Or I would price the specific broken parts only, not the complete compressor

Bob

 

[katit]

you ****!

Need more details

 

[The Cobbler]

I don't see where the case is broken, how bad is it?

 

[katit]

How much performance do you need from this project? Basically are you OK going down market with the pump? At the low end, say under $150 you could buy the HF "5hp" pump (around $150 with 20% off coupon).
https://www.harborfreight.com/145-psi-5-hp-twin-cylinder-air-compressor-pump-67698.html
This has about the same CFM as the original pump but lower peak pressure (single stage) and almost certainly can't handle the work load. However, for less than $300 total you would have a heck of a good compressor.

Wow! This looks like the path I will take.
I definitely don't use compressor daily, it's for occasional hobby use but want to run sandblaster. Seems like HF pump will do.

I did request quote from Quincy for crank and block, but something tells me it will be a lot. But I want to take pump apart just to see what it looks like there. If all is perfect and parts to repair will be lets say <$500 than I may go repair route. But HF replacement look very very nice. Just need to figure out pulley size to get it to 1050 RPMs

 

[katit]

I don't see where the case is broken, how bad is it?

You see picture with cage/pump pulley? Look at the pump block. Crank broke, pulley stays at angle and you see crack in a block

 

[The Cobbler]

oh yeah, it broke ! LOL

 

[Skin]

There are 2 ball bearings on either side of the crank. One may of come apart. Cheapest fix would be only if the case needed repairing but you'd need a good welder. If you need a crank and/or new case forget it. Quincy is very proud of their parts. Crank is probably $500+ alone. May as well get one of those India or Chinese pumps at that point.

I'd at least investigate but I like fixing stuff when i can instead of adding to the landfill.

 

[katit]

There are 2 ball bearings on either side of the crank. One may of come apart. Cheapest fix would be only if the case needed repairing but you'd need a good welder. If you need a crank and/or new case forget it. Quincy is very proud of their parts. Crank is probably $500+ alone. May as well get one of those India or Chinese pumps at that point.

I'd at least investigate but I like fixing stuff when i can instead of adding to the landfill.

It looks like crank most likely shot just by looking at angle. Or maybe it's because case broke? Maybe crank is OK... Well, welding cast iron is not an easy thing, they braze it from what I know. And since it's weak spot, why bother..
I can only think about installing reinforcement plate after repair. Like braze it in place, then mill surface and then install still plate over it.

On a picture you see bearing inside, it's on a broken case

On eBay QT-5 pump sells for $1600.

 

[The Cobbler]

I think for it to be moved that much, it's broken(the crank)

 

[Skin]

Crankshafts are very stout hardened steel. I cant fathom that it would be either bent or broken unless something like a piece of rebar fell into the pulley while it was spinning causing an Indiana Jones effect.

 

[katit]

I think this pump is gone. Took out air filter and this piece of cast iron was in a tube.

 

[Garett]

I would pull it apart, you might get lucky. If the crank is in one piece put it on v blocks and see. Like they said above you can probably get the case repaired. Even if the bore is scored you can get it sleeved. The crank is the one thing you don't want to see cracked.

 

[bugnut]

silly question might it be under warranty............cheapest fix yet!

 

[NoMoreGreen]

Awesome find! That's an awesome compressor! I would have purchased it too!

 

[Davefr]

I'd check out the ABAC Atlas Copco replacement pumps before putting on that HF Chinese turd. Seeing a HF pump on that compressor would be enough to make a grown man puke.

They're more expensive but have a good reputation. (made in Italy and used by many compressor manufacturers). Since you got that compressor so cheap, (ie You ****), you should be able to throw some $'s into it.

http://www.i90enter.com/store-products-T29S-T29S-Pump_23527036.html

 

[Citation]

18v dewalt right here

Use the plastic wire that has an aluminum strand, much easier to fix, just tie a knot.

Solar charger will work, or battery or 120 volt. Don’t need anything big. First strand about four inches up, then four more and a third at a foot or so.

Do a good ground rod, or the middle wire can be a ground.

Very effective.

I'd check out the ABAC Atlas Copco replacement pumps before putting on that HF Chinese turd. Seeing a HF pump on that compressor would be enough to make a grown man puke.

They're more expensive but have a good reputation. (made in Italy and used by many compressor manufacturers). Since you got that compressor so cheap, (ie You ****), you should be able to throw some $'s into it.

http://www.i90enter.com/store-products-T29S-T29S-Pump_23527036.html

In what way is that $500 pump going to be better than the HF pump for the given application? It looks like a smaller pump that has to be spun faster to get the same air flow.

 

[Davefr]

In what way is that $500 pump going to be better than the HF pump for the given application? It looks like a smaller pump that has to be spun faster to get the same air flow.

Reliability. There are 31 one star reviews on the HF pump. Many of them suggesting it doesn't hold up.

Any pump he chooses needs to be spun within the RPM range that the manufacturer specs. (By way of a larger pulley on his 1750 RPM motor.)

He has a really high end compressor. I wouldn't cheap out on a pump but that's just me.

 

[katit]

Reliability. There are 31 one star reviews on the HF pump. Many of them suggesting it doesn't hold up.

Any pump he chooses needs to be spun within the RPM range that the manufacturer specs. (By way of a larger pulley on his 1750 RPM motor.)

He has a really high end compressor. I wouldn't cheap out on a pump but that's just me.

Dave,

I'm partially with you. But given compressor cost 2200 new, pump cost $1600 - doesn't make financial sense to replace with original. I had up to 1200-1300 budget in my mind for new compressor. Getting this compressor fixed ideally should stay under 1000. So, it leaves me with $800 for a new pump.

I don't see new pumps with proper specs at that price. HF one looks like a gamble, and it's not two-stage, but at the price it may just worth it because those 1* reviews all point to incompatibility, non-working from beginning, breaking within a year. But when it works - it works. At least with HF I can always take it back, buy extended warranty, etc. It's just convenience. Sounds strange but it is much easier for me to deal with HF because they open nights and weekends. All distributors of "proper" stuff work during business hours and guess what I'm also working in office at that time.

Thinking about all of those variables and seeing crank broken on this $1600 pump - can't make good decisions Also, keep in mind that people tend to leave bad reviews and not good ones. That means HF pump has event better % of success.

AND. I have Rustoleum blue paint... It will match perfect.

 

[engineer2]

We demand pictures of the carnage!

 

[930dreamer]

X2 on looking for a bad tank/motor with a good pump set up. I have that tank in a spare, and a Quincy 230 pump like this one in yellow.

Quincy 230-32 Compressor Head, 2Cyl,

Single Stage Compressor, 175PSI, 18-20 CFM

 

[fatfillup]

I bought a hf pump and it works but I am not in love with it.

I should have research my options

 

[Citation]

I bought a hf pump and it works but I am not in love with it.

I should have research my options

I would be interested in your take. I have some experience with the 3hp pump and second hand experience with the 5hp.
Via a friend I ended up with two ~4hp, 80gal Coleman compressors. These were low end 80 gallon units that originally had 3 cylinder, single stage pumps. One pump was bad, the other was all ready replaced with a HF 3hp pump. The 3hp unit runs fine, is rather quiet and seems to meet it's 10cfm spec just fine. The current owner of that compressor has done some light painting and zip wheel work with it. No issues at all though his needs are minimal.

The guy who got the other compressor decided to go for the 5hp version and set a lower cutout pressure and speed to avoid over loading the motor. Again no complaints. In both cases the owners were coming from 120V models so these were big upgrades for their modest needs.

 

[Skin]

In what way is that $500 pump going to be better than the HF pump for the given application? It looks like a smaller pump that has to be spun faster to get the same air flow.

The HF pump in question from page 1 is a single stage pump so they start to **** out at higher pressure requirements (trying to maintain 90PSI line under load). It also vibrates like hell. You get what you pay for.

ABAC T29S or Eaton/Polar APP2I0524T are decent pumps in the $500-$650 price point. The latter would be a pretty close match with a paper spec of 17CFM at 175PSI and I think they have a 5 year warranty.

 

[katit]

The HF pump in question from page 1 is a single stage pump so they start to **** out at higher pressure requirements (trying to maintain 90PSI line under load). It also vibrates like hell. You get what you pay for.

ABAC T29S or Eaton/Polar APP2I0524T are decent pumps in the $500-$650 price point. The latter would be a pretty close match with a paper spec of 17CFM at 175PSI and I think they have a 5 year warranty.

I don't want pump that vibrate. I want lower speed quiet operation, prices fit my budget.

Checked those pumps listed. Found Eaton APP2I0524T online for $650 or so shipped. 180lb


T29S is 75lb. Really? Why so much difference in weight? Which pump will be more quiet?

Seems like T29S is very popular, pumps and parts online everywhere. Is that only one manufactures or lot's of them? Any difference?

 

[Skin]

The Eaton pump is actually 130lb or so. The higher weights are shipping weights. T29S is cast aluminum with an iron cylinder and is also dimensionally smaller while the Eaton pump is all cast iron so that's where most of the weight difference is. Noise is directly related to RPM/pulley reduction. Both can be run on ~1700RPM motors but you'll get better performance at that speed from the Eaton pump. If you really want about as quiet as you can get contact Eaton and see if the pump would be okay spinning at 650-700 RPM and then size the motor pulley accordingly.

This is pretty much going to be you here with regards to what you're in for.

 

[Bigbandguy]

Just to do a little advocating for the devil here. The OP states he is an occasional use hobbyist. My bet is that the HF pump will be all he needs for that. No question a higher end pump might be better and certainly more pleasing to the purist, but for occasional use you can buy a lot of food for the table for the difference and still be able to put air in your tires with the HF pump.

I have a 20 year old HF 25 gal compressor that refuses to die and a "pancake " compressor with the same pump. They both are noisy as hell but do their jobs just fine. I was recently in a situation where i had to run the larger one literally all day and it did its job.. all day! .

I would buy the larger HF pump and see how long it works. It might surprise you.

 

[Davefr]

Seems like T29S is very popular, pumps and parts online everywhere. Is that only one manufactures or lot's of them? Any difference?

The T29S is used in many compressors including the Bel Aire 216V that has 4.5 star reviews and a A- rating.
https://www.aircompressorsdirect.co...pvtPySRY094ElO6sEzSiQmC61tREK8-hoCgz4QAvD_BwE


Even HF uses this pump in their higher end/highly rated USA 60 gallon compressor. I'm not sure any of their compressors even use the low end 5HP pump.

https://www.harborfreight.com/5-hp-60-gallon-165-psi-two-stage-air-compressor-93274.html

 

[bochnak]

I bought the Eaton replacement pump. It was $750 shipped. I also had to buy a new pulley, copper pipe, fittings etc...

Here is the install:

CFM specs after install:

I am happy with the pump and customer service from Eaton.

 

[katit]

Ok, I think I know what I should do now.
1. Remove current pump
2. Measure pulleys on both motor and current pump
3. Document mounting holes layout (there is many of them on compressor)

Then I can shop for pumps and see which ones will fit on mount I have, what RPMs they will spin.

Also, pulleys they come from might be different from what I have on motor, I have 1 belt now.

So, after knowing all that I will be able to make better decision.

QUESTION: Can I run motor without load (pump)? I just want to make sure motor works at least

 

[bochnak]

I would take your current pump all apart and see how much it would cost to fix.

Factor these costs for any replacement pump other than "stock"

Pulley and sheave - $80-100
Belts - $30
Fittings - $10-30
Copper line - $20-40
Pump cost including SHIPPING ???

You will need a tubing bender and possibly a flare tool. Compression fittings are an easier option.

I am running my eaton at 800-810 RPM. Check out non contact tachometers on amazon. That helped me verify everything.

Matt

 

[katit]

I would take your current pump all apart and see how much it would cost to fix.

Factor these costs for any replacement pump other than "stock"

Pulley and sheave - $80-100
Belts - $30
Fittings - $10-30
Copper line - $20-40
Pump cost including SHIPPING ???

You will need a tubing bender and possibly a flare tool. Compression fittings are an easier option.

I am running my eaton at 800-810 RPM. Check out non contact tachometers on amazon. That helped me verify everything.

Matt

Matt,

Great points. Seems like $200 on top of delivered pump just in different accessories/parts.

At this point repair start looking much better.

In any case - taking current pump off and apart should be first step.

 

[Davefr]

Matt,


In any case - taking current pump off and apart should be first step.

Yes, and if it looks like it self destructed I'd pick up the phone and talk to real live person at Quincy and explain what your inspection revealed. Maybe it's a long shot, but they might cover it or pro-rate the part's cost.

I wouldn't volunteer that you're the second owner nor would I lie about it if asked.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Please post images of what you find.

 

[Citation]

Ok, I think I know what I should do now.
1. Remove current pump
2. Measure pulleys on both motor and current pump
3. Document mounting holes layout (there is many of them on compressor)

Then I can shop for pumps and see which ones will fit on mount I have, what RPMs they will spin.

Also, pulleys they come from might be different from what I have on motor, I have 1 belt now.

So, after knowing all that I will be able to make better decision.

QUESTION: Can I run motor without load (pump)? I just want to make sure motor works at least

Having gone through this exercise, mounting the pump and drilling the holes isn't bad so long as you have an appropriate drill for the job. The big thing is making sure you get the pump lined up.

The pulley part in our case wasn't bad since we could change the motor side pulley. In the case of the 5hp pump to 4 hp motor it was a matter of under sizing. You may not have to do much of anything. Measure the pulleys and then check the manual. Bending the copper tube isn't bad, just don't do it too sharp. Adding a loop can make it easier.

Yes, the motors can run without load. Induction motors are designed to run at basically the same speed 0-100% load. You will know you are overloading them if they don't run at their rated speed.

If you can find a deal on a better pump and don't mind the extra spend go for it. I still think, given your overall light use profile you are better off saving the cash and getting the HF pump. Yes, if you need a 1 ton truck a 1/2 ton F-150 is a bad choice. If a Ford Ranger is really more than you need then an F-150 is plenty more than you need.

In the end the best part about the HF pump is you can get it locally and at a price that is low enough that IF it goes bad you could afford to just replace it with a second one and still be cost ahead over the other new pump options.

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

But when it works - it works. At least with HF I can always take it back, buy extended warranty, etc. It's just convenience. Sounds strange but it is much easier for me to deal with HF because they open nights and weekends.

In the end the best part about the HF pump is you can get it locally and at a price that is low enough that IF it goes bad you could afford to just replace it with a second one and still be cost ahead over the other new pump options.

I dont mean to sound like a douche, as I have no experience rebuilding a compressor, nor experience with HF pumps.

With that said I'll never understand the logic behind these reasonings.

I've never found it convenient to keep returning parts and purchasing extended warranties on something I've cheaped out on. And I definitely dont find it convenient to spend my weeknights and weekends doing it. ( okay maybe it is a bit helpful if you live near one, I'll admit)

I'd still rather buy one that is durable and not go through it all agian.

And then the reasoning behind citations logic I never understood either.

Yes maybe you could buy 2 cheap pumps for less then one costly pump.

But....

Can you buy the 3rd and 4th cheap pump and still save a considerable amount?

Do you really want to do all that work researching literature, planning and preparing, just to put a sub par pump into an expensive compressor like that, all while knowing that one inconvenient weekend you will have to do it all over agian.

I'm going to side with others who suggested quality, but costlier parts. If moneys tight I would set aside what you have available for the project, and continue to save cash until you can reason with the extra expenses.

I have a feeling this will actually be the more convenient and less expensive route in the end.

That being said, a comment mentioned earlier about reviews on HF pump, dont ever listen to online reviews. Especially HF and Amazon. Good or bad. If I put any faith into online reviews I check for information from any and every source I can, then cross reference.

 

[Citation]

I dont mean to sound like a douche, as I have no experience rebuilding a compressor, nor experience with HF pumps.

With that said I'll never understand the logic behind these reasonings.

I've never found it convenient to keep returning parts and purchasing extended warranties on something I've cheaped out on. And I definitely dont find it convenient to spend my weeknights and weekends doing it. ( okay maybe it is a bit helpful if you live near one, I'll admit)

I'd still rather buy one that is durable and not go through it all agian.

And then the reasoning behind citations logic I never understood either.

Yes maybe you could buy 2 cheap pumps for less then one costly pump.

But....

Can you buy the 3rd and 4th cheap pump and still save a considerable amount?

Do you really want to do all that work researching literature, planning and preparing, just to put a sub par pump into an expensive compressor like that, all while knowing that one inconvenient weekend you will have to do it all over agian.

I'm going to side with others who suggested quality, but costlier parts. If moneys tight I would set aside what you have available for the project, and continue to save cash until you can reason with the extra expenses.

I have a feeling this will actually be the more convenient and less expensive route in the end.

That being said, a comment mentioned earlier about reviews on HF pump, dont ever listen to online reviews. Especially HF and Amazon. Good or bad. If I put any faith into online reviews I check for information from any and every source I can, then cross reference.

If I expected the HF pump to fail I wouldn't recommend it at all. Some are worried that it will and this is the counter argument. If it does cost wise you are still ahead if you pay for a replacement. Also the cost delta is significant. A local purchase for ~$150 vs $600+shipping. Take the logic to the extreme, why not but a new Champion compressor and be done with it. At some point when we are doing this for home, not for pay, cost becomes a big factor, time less so. This is a cheap yet reasonably low risk way to get the compressor running to a sufficient level. The risk may be higher than the more expensive pumps but it's still small yet the cost savings are big.