Bought a broken compressor. Looking for advice

[katit]

On that old pump I think I would save the rods and cylinder to make something out of and then junk the rest

If you need those - I can ship, just pay shipping

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Definitely use 2 belts. Oil, use what it calls for.

 

[katit]

Definitely use 2 belts. Oil, use what it calls for.

Why definitely 2 belts? Motor got 1, if type and size OK, I don't plan to buy another pulley

For oil it calls for 20 or 30w non-detergent. I just bought this one from Amazon, unless any objections - this is what I'm going with:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZBNQ9W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[ClappedOutBport]

5hp is a lot to ask of one A belt. Asking for slippage, heat and belt wear. My drill press has 2 belts on a 1hp motor. All 3+ hp compressors have 2 belts, and I've seen then slip often on startup when they get old and loose. That's B belts, instead of A. You could try it with 1, nothing bad will happen, but they didn't put an extra groove on pulley for nothing.

 

[katit]

Ok, I got down to belt size. Current belt is B-belt (~5/8 wide which matches industry 21/32)
New pump will be double A belt which is smaller. So yes. I will need pulley and I will need 2 belts.

Unless I decide to use old pump pulley (but will it fit new compressor? And Probably bad idea to mess with it)

Since I'm going to get new motor pulley. What RPM I should shoot for? Lowest 700? Or something like 800-900?

Other thing I noticed motor squeaks when turning by hand. I tried to pump grease through zirk fittings with no difference. Do those motors have brushes? Is it normal?

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Squeak is from the centrifugal switch for the starting windings. Normal. Don't put in too much grease, you'll just fill the windings.

I recommend a sheave-type pulley. They don't tend to wallow out and destroy the shaft like normal pulleys. Trade off is a bit more expense.

 

[katit]

Squeak is from the centrifugal switch for the starting windings. Normal. Don't put in too much grease, you'll just fill the windings.

I recommend a sheave-type pulley. They don't tend to wallow out and destroy the shaft like normal pulleys. Trade off is a bit more expense.

What is sheave-type pulley? How are they different? I checked them at Grainger and sizes about 7in go over $200-300

 

[ClappedOutBport]

What is sheave-type pulley? How are they different? I checked them at Grainger and sizes about 7in go over $200-300

With a regular pulley it just slides on the shaft and clamps with a set screw or two, right?

A sheave-type pulley (or at least, that's what I've always called them) has two pieces. The bushing fits over the shaft and is split and tapered like a collet. The pulley has a matching taper and is bolted to the bushing. When it's tightened, it collapses the bushing clamping it onto the shaft very securely.
eg: https://www.globalindustrial.com/g/...q-d-bushings-h-j-series-113310?trackType=null

It's a better way but not required. If the price difference is too great, don't do it. I sort of doubt this compressor will be running 8 hours a day anyway.

Graingers will **** your wallet no matter what you buy. I would call a local motor shop and see if they have any pull-off pulleys from junk motors. Worth a shot at least.

Edit: I priced graingers solid pulley at $221.

At mcmaster you can get a 7.15" cast iron pulley with bushing for $88+ s&h. They only sell "bushing" type in your size.

https://www.mcmaster.com/6209k129
https://www.mcmaster.com/6086K318

 

[katit]

With a regular pulley it just slides on the shaft and clamps with a set screw or two, right?

A sheave-type pulley (or at least, that's what I've always called them) has two pieces. The bushing fits over the shaft and is split and tapered like a collet. The pulley has a matching taper and is bolted to the bushing. When it's tightened, it collapses the bushing clamping it onto the shaft very securely.
eg: https://www.globalindustrial.com/g/...q-d-bushings-h-j-series-113310?trackType=null

It's a better way but not required. If the price difference is too great, don't do it. I sort of doubt this compressor will be running 8 hours a day anyway.

Graingers will **** your wallet no matter what you buy. I would call a local motor shop and see if they have any pull-off pulleys from junk motors. Worth a shot at least.

Edit: I priced graingers solid pulley at $221.

At mcmaster you can get a 7.15" cast iron pulley with bushing for $88+ s&h. They only sell "bushing" type in your size.

https://www.mcmaster.com/6209k129
https://www.mcmaster.com/6086K318

Thanks a lot! I also digged in, found some other sources. Example
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cast-Iron-...657878?hash=item4435a31b16:g:DN4AAOSwP0tcmPa-

8.25 will spin pump to 950 RPM Will it be to high? I feel like spinning pump at min 700RPM is probably not the best idea.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Thanks a lot! I also digged in, found some other sources. Example
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cast-Iron-...657878?hash=item4435a31b16:g:DN4AAOSwP0tcmPa-

8.25 will spin pump to 950 RPM Will it be to high? I feel like spinning pump at min 700RPM is probably not the best idea.

I don't have any input for you there, sorry. The faster they spin the more heat and stress created, the slower, the slower the air is made. A lot of other users chimed in there, I'd suggest re-reading some of the earlier posts or contacting the manufacturer.

 

[katit]

I don't have any input for you there, sorry. The faster they spin the more heat and stress created, the slower, the slower the air is made. A lot of other users chimed in there, I'd suggest re-reading some of the earlier posts or contacting the manufacturer.

Sure I got it. And it seems like I can run it at 950 but it will be maxing out my motor. I can lower pressures as suggested as well.

Here are the specifications for ABAC pumps including your new T39:

https://www.mastertoolrepair.com/images/Pump and Unit Specs.pdf

Maximum RPM for a 5HP motor is shown as 960, so I'd go with that or a bit less. You can also dial back the on-off pressure range to something like 130-155psi.

 

[tym]

I retract my previous statement. That thing is scrap.

If you look up "grenaded" in the dictionary, those will be the pictures

 

[katit]

Ok, I'm ready to put everything back together (pending pump and pulley delivery)

Cleaned all up and got motor tested.
Motor was packed with dust. Not sure what environment it came from but it feels like motor was filled with concrete dust. First I used compressed air to blow out as much as I can from all sides. Then I got motor hooked up, started and did more cleaning.

My home voltage according to Fluke 123V or 246V.
Measured motor speed using electronic RPM meter - 1798RPM slightly more than 1725 listed.

Also, without load motor pulls 8.7-8.8A on each leg.

So, it's a good start, at least electric motor is good.

 

[marinusdees]

Motor speed is not cast in concrete. It depends on a number of parameters all of which add up to something called "slippage". The pump pulley is fitted to a tapered shaft, so you'd probly have a hard time finding a compressor pulley to fit. So, you're stuck with sizing the motor pulley to make the rpm you want. In general, you should not spin the pump over 1200 rpm. But, if it's a splash lubricated pump, there is a minimum rpm to assure adequate oiling.
Sorry if this has been addressed before. I'm a latecomer to this dogfight.

 

[marinusdees]

If the pump comes with a double v groove pulley. get two grooves on the motor. You can use two cast aluminum pulleys side by side if they have no hubs. Buy a matching pair of belts. They'll outlive you. I know the boo birds will say to use iron pulleys. I'd do what I needed to do, including Al pulleys.

 

[katit]

Finally. Got pump today. All looks good on a surface. And yes, it did sit there on a shelf for a while. Oil plug, sight glass, some other stuff came in a separate bag.

Does pulley look ok on a shaft like this? It's like 1/2 inch not "in". Bolt with washer (left threads) was in a bag, it threads about 1/4 inch

I'm thinking about taking pump apart. Bolts got some rust on them and I wonder what got inside in 30 years it was on a shelf. It's covered in dust and all the holes unplugged. Air inlet, blowoff, oil inlet/outlets, etc. Feel like I need to at least inspect it. Is there special torque to put cylinders/head back on? Gaskets look like plain cardboard, can be reused no problem I assume.

MUCH lighter than original though. Looks like only cylinders is cast iron. Head and case seem to be aluminum. I can lift it just fine.

I did measure holes, nothing matching pre-drilled. So I will have to do that as well.

Compressed air outlet is bigger thread than fittings I took out of old Quincy pump. Does anybody know what those sizes are?

Now that I will need to shop for copper line and adapters, which place is the best to go to? Home Depot?

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I'd push the pulley on a bit more, but still leave some clearance for the bolts.

 

[katit]

How do I push it? Also, I think I read somewhere that it seats on a cone?

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Oh it's on a taper? Is that a tapped hole on the end? If so it should have a bolt and a washer snugged holding it on.

 

[katit]

I don't know if it's taper or not, I think I read it somewhere. I do have bolt but this distance throws me off. Also, even if I wanted to move it, how? I can't just hammer it in, right?

My only guess right now is to snug it with a bolt as is and since this bolt left-threaded it won't come off. I can add some medium locktite as well

 

[The Cobbler]

if a taper fit be careful on how much you tighten it.
I bought a brand new compressor clearance at Princess Auto where the pulley had shattered .
I ordered a new pulley off ebay and I could see how easy it would be to over tighten it & split the cast pulley. when it's ample tight enough, there is still space between the pulley face & washer and the crank.overtighhtening easily could spread the taper in the pulley to point of failure . one day I'm going to machine a bushing so the bolt snugs up to it & the crank.

 

[katit]

if a taper fit be careful on how much you tighten it.
I bought a brand new compressor clearance at Princess Auto where the pulley had shattered .
I ordered a new pulley off ebay and I could see how easy it would be to over tighten it & split the cast pulley. when it's ample tight enough, there is still space between the pulley face & washer and the crank.overtighhtening easily could spread the taper in the pulley to point of failure . one day I'm going to machine a bushing so the bolt snugs up to it & the crank.

Thats what I wanted to hear. I will just get it snug and not worry too much. It won't come off (left thread) and I will use locktite

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I don't know if it's taper or not, I think I read it somewhere. I do have bolt but this distance throws me off. Also, even if I wanted to move it, how? I can't just hammer it in, right?

My only guess right now is to snug it with a bolt as is and since this bolt left-threaded it won't come off. I can add some medium locktite as well

I don't know mate. I don't have your compressor sitting on my workbench. I'm an investigative repairman, I like to take things apart when fixing them even if they aren't really broken so I can break them in the proc... er, understand how they work.

Loctite will only make your life worse in the future. A bolt with the threads in the tightening orientation will not come loose.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

I don't know if it's taper or not, I think I read it somewhere. I do have bolt but this distance throws me off. Also, even if I wanted to move it, how? I can't just hammer it in, right?

My only guess right now is to snug it with a bolt as is and since this bolt left-threaded it won't come off. I can add some medium locktite as well

If you look at the e-bay link of yours and look at the photos that show the sheave / case, it looks like there is only about 1/2" gap to me.
You can check if the sheave bore is tapered by using calipers or if you don't have calipers, just MacGiver it, by placing anything that is straight and will fit in the bore, up tight to one side of the bore and 'eyeball it'.
Personally, I would just remove it anyway to clean both the shaft and bore before installing, then you can verify if it's a tapered fit. If so, you could heat the sheave in an oven at 350-400° for about 10 minutes, then it should slide right on. I wouldn't recommend beating on it as it looks aluminum and beating on wouldn't be good for the crank bearings.

 

[katit]

Yes. It's tapered, verified with calipers.
I don't think I will be taking it off, it's on good, don't see a point. But shaft is like 20mm in and bolt is like 25mm. So, I can get it snug with a bolt but wouldn't use much pressure at all.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Yes. It's tapered, verified with calipers.
I don't think I will be taking it off, it's on good, don't see a point. But shaft is like 20mm in and bolt is like 25mm. So, I can get it snug with a bolt but wouldn't use much pressure at all.

5mm thread engagement doesn't sound correct to me.
You may THINK "it's on good", but a good taper fit may give you this illusion. As I stated previously, the clearance between the sheave and case looks much smaller in the e-bay photos than what your appears to have. Being the sheave is aluminum, it wouldn't take much to ruin the taper fit by it coming loose. Play it safe and verify that it's installed to the correct depth.

 

[katit]

Finally got back to compressor. Took head off, found some debree, no big deal. But no rust inside, cylinders/pistons look new (as they are new). So, all is well, put it back together.

Took big pulley off. It is on about 3/4 of inch. It is tapered. It is on contacting full surface, not crooked, not going anywhere. But yes, bolt only engages 1/4 inch or so, probably little more than 5mm. It should be OK though, as only 4-5 thread loop take all of the load.

Drilled holes, positioned pump, motor, got belts ordered.
But for now I need to figure out copper tubing going from pump to a tank. I need to bend new one. Old one is 3/4OD copper. Looks like pipe (0.65 inside).

Question is: Can I bend pipe?? And can I use regular water pipe?
If I can't bend, can I solder in sections? Will solder joints hold 175PSI?

 

[Skin]

You can bend or solder. If you try to bend a tubing bender is best. Cheaper methods include filling the pipe with sand so it doesn't crush or annealing it with heat at the bend point. Work with longer lengths so you have the advantage of leverage. Commercially available copper pipe is also fine.

 

[gungatim]

I tried bending one for a small horizontal compressor. it was only 1/2" but was a huge fail. after three tries I finally got it but it wasn't pretty...

I thought about soldering but figured the vibration of the motor and pump vs. the tank where the pipe connects would likely crack the connection. may be worth a shot though.

 

[bochnak]

5/8 OD is all I was able to find at home depot.

I used a HVAC bender. They also have those springy things that will support the pipe, might want to look at that.

Worse case, use a coat hanger to mock up the run, and have a shop make you one. It will save a lot of frustration.

I recommend compression fittings since flaring is another tool you would have to buy.

 

[katit]

5/8 OD is all I was able to find at home depot.

I used a HVAC bender. They also have those springy things that will support the pipe, might want to look at that.

Worse case, use a coat hanger to mock up the run, and have a shop make you one. It will save a lot of frustration.

I recommend compression fittings since flaring is another tool you would have to buy.

I see 3/4 tube for sale online in rolls of 100ft. Little too much. My friend is in HVAC, I will see if he got some of that pipe.

It would be ideal so I don't have to deal with compressor end at least. At tank I have T that goes into tank, then one side goes to pressure switch and air inlet mounts there. Would be nice to keep it intact.

At pump I got really big opening, bigger than what I have on compressor, will need to find adapter or something.

Worst case scenario I'm going to solder whole thing from 3/4 pipe and find all adapters at home depot. If I use Tin-Animony solder it should hold 500psi
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-ratings-solder-joints-d_1162.html

Old pipe with crimp attached..

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Finally got back to compressor. Took head off, found some debree, no big deal. But no rust inside, cylinders/pistons look new (as they are new). So, all is well, put it back together.


But for now I need to figure out copper tubing going from pump to a tank. I need to bend new one. Old one is 3/4OD copper. Looks like pipe (0.65 inside).

Question is: Can I bend pipe?? And can I use regular water pipe?
If I can't bend, can I solder in sections? Will solder joints hold 175PSI?

Did you torque the head to specs? Being as it's aluminum, it's paramount that it is properly torqued down (in a cris-cross) pattern to prevent warping the head and blowing out the gasket.

Your old discharge line is copper TUBING not PIPE. If you are planing on bending a new one, you will need SOFT COPPER tubing, which comes in rolls. You can't bend hard copper (which is always in straight lengths) without annealing it first. Borrow or rent a 3/4Ø tubing bender to make the job easy.
Use compression fitting (easier than flare fittings) to connect to the pump and receiver.
You CAN use hard copper and elbows and solder, but with the vibration a compressor creates, I wouldn't recommend it for long term.

EDIT: The tube in your photo shows a compression fitting. All you need is new ferrules (the brass ring on the tube, you can cut the tube and remove and re-use the nut. Your HVAC buddy will surely have a 3/4" tube bender.

 

[katit]

Did you torque the head to specs? Being as it's aluminum, it's paramount that it is properly torqued down (in a cris-cross) pattern to prevent warping the head and blowing out the gasket.

Don't know specs but did torque cris-cross to the same figures with 1/4 follow up turn on all of them in cris-cross. It will work

Your old discharge line is copper TUBING not PIPE. If you are planing on bending a new one, you will need SOFT COPPER tubing, which comes in rolls. You can't bend hard copper (which is always in straight lengths) without annealing it first. Borrow or rent a 3/4Ø tubing bender to make the job easy.
Use compression fitting (easier than flare fittings) to connect to the pump and receiver.
You CAN use hard copper and elbows and solder, but with the vibration a compressor creates, I wouldn't recommend it for long term.

Yes, I realize that I have TUBE, thats why I said it will be a problem to find it. They sold in 100ft rolls from what I see..

 

[katit]

EDIT: The tube in your photo shows a compression fitting. All you need is new ferrules (the brass ring on the tube, you can cut the tube and remove and re-use the nut. Your HVAC buddy will surely have a 3/4" tube bender.

Yes, he got bender for sure. And yes, I can reuse nuts. And I will be good on compressor side. However, on pump side I will need to come up with some kind of adapter. And I need to find 3/4 tube

 

[katit]

Does this look correct for compression fittings? I'm going to get this stuff, then I will only have to get threaded adapter which I'm sure HD will have.

 

[bochnak]

And I need to find 3/4 tube

Eaton said 5/8 or 3/4 is sufficient for my pump (17-19cfm). So I'm sure you can go 5/8 for yours as well:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...r-Coil-Tubing-5-8-in-O-D-1-2-L-20RE/203654563

That is what I used.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Tubing is correct, you can use standard ferrules. Mcmaster # 50915K618

If you use the YOR-LOK ferrules, you'll need to use YOR-LOK nuts and fittings as they are not interchangeable.

 

[katit]

Tubing is correct, you can use standard ferrules. Mcmaster # 50915K618

Already got those on picture. Hopefully they will work(look similar to old ones). Well, if all pieces come together (should get tube, belts and those ferrules tomorrow) I may have this beast running tomorrow !

 

[katit]

Tubing is correct, you can use standard ferrules. Mcmaster # 50915K618

If you use the YOR-LOK ferrules, you'll need to use YOR-LOK nuts and fittings as they are not interchangeable.

Just noticed you edited post. Why do I need to use YOR-LOK nuts? those I got look correct. If it's about ID of nut to position washer - then I think I can make it happen on my lathe.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

It's been a while since I used YOR-LOK fittings, but I'm pretty sure the compression surface is 90° to the threads, whereas a standard compression nut is beveled.