Bought Bridgeport Clone - Now Getting it Set Up for Basic Machining

[cannuck]

I have that already.

Thanks

It is indeed an R8 machine. Worked out great on mine since dovetail drill.mill also R8. Got mine onto the floor of the shop using both shop cranes to pick it from the trailer. Managed to snag the turret on bottom bar of my cloth outer door and bent it all to Hell, so another job added to list. Will solicit some volunteers to help drag the Cheng Ki into the vacated mill slot and move the other into outer shop as standby until I get a phase converter together.

Mine also came with its original Taiwan vice - in similarly good condition. Starting to feel I got a fair deal on this thing.

 

[mattthemuppet]

I have an absolute pile of mill and lathe tooling for sale

 

[bulletpruf]

I have an absolute pile of mill and lathe tooling for sale

Sending you a message...

 

[alfadan]

VFD. Any recommendations?

I have two Teco-Westinghouse L510 vfds that I'm very satisfied with. You can get them as 120v input or 240volt. Not sure of your motor hp, just match up with vfd rating. If you go with it, I can help with settings, which only use like 5.

 

[alfadan]

You'll want a 5 or 6 inch mill vice too. Maybe there are some used Kurt vises around your area.

 

[whateg01]

... Managed to snag the turret on bottom bar of my cloth outer door and bent it all to Hell, ...

The turret?

 

[whateg01]

You'll want a 5 or 6 inch mill vice too. Maybe there are some used Kurt vises around your area.

He did say something about a budget! I actually picked up two 6" versatilelock vises for $300, so I guess there are deals to had if you're lucky.

I have bought 4" Kurt clones from Amazon and they were functional for a lot of "close enough" work, but they weren't what anybody would call good. Like drill presses, you'll find a lot of used vises with Peck marks. Might not be the end of the world, and maybe that's all you can find in your area for a decent price. I did buy a 5" vise once that had a non-standard bolt pattern for the jaws. Didn't hurt much since I bought is specifically to put soft jaws on, but I couldn't have purchased a set of hard jaws for it.

 

[bulletpruf]

I have two Teco-Westinghouse L510 vfds that I'm very satisfied with. You can get them as 120v input or 240volt. Not sure of your motor hp, just match up with vfd rating. If you go with it, I can help with settings, which only use like 5.

Motor is 2 hp. I would do 240v input. This is what I need, right? https://www.wolfautomation.com/vfd-2hp-230v-single-phase-ip20

 

[bulletpruf]

You'll want a 5 or 6 inch mill vice too. Maybe there are some used Kurt vises around your area.

There's actually an 8" Kurt on FB MP right now for $550. Seller is saying that it's a $2,100 vise new. Is 8" too big for my application? If not, I may have to jump on this.

EDIT: Did a bit of research - looks like an 8" vise is too big. I'd be better off with a 6" vise.





Same seller has a set of R8 collets for $150. That doesn't seem to be a screaming deal.

 

[bulletpruf]

There's a guy that just retired from machining selling lots of stuff on Craigslist here in San Antonio - he has about 10 ads; here's one - https://sanantonio.craigslist.org/tls/d/san-antonio-end-mill-machinist-tools/7776002760.html

 

[whateg01]

8 inch is too big IMO. 6in is about right.

 

[bulletpruf]

8 inch is too big IMO. 6in is about right.

I think we were both typing at the same time; I did a bit of research and came to the same conclusion. Edited my post.

 

[mattthemuppet]

here's another VFD worth looking at:

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/general_purpose_vfds/gs21-10p2?_gl=1*1m71qdl*_up*MQ..&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8--2BhCHARIsAF_w1gxDns8MFPoDWrzYQfOjqUDQm68zUDSqtjzj2rcK7Eqik0AUr9CK78QaArWtEALw_wcB

it's probably what I'll get when I need to buy one for my mills feed motor. mksj on Hobby Machinist likes them and he does a lot of VFD conversions.

I would suggest looking into an R8>ER32 (maybe ER40) collet chuck. Easier to swap out collets in my opinion, better coverage of odd sizes (for drills or metric endmills) and about what that guy wants for the R8 collets. R8 collets are useful if you need the head room, but I used mine a handful of times at most. Plus the ER32/ 40 collets can be used for collet blocks and lathe collet chucks too.

 

[mattthemuppet]

There's a guy that just retired from machining selling lots of stuff on Craigslist here in San Antonio - he has about 10 ads; here's one - https://sanantonio.craigslist.org/tls/d/san-antonio-end-mill-machinist-tools/7776002760.html

I remember seeing his ads all the time when I lived in SA. Not terrible prices but not great either.

 

[alfadan]

Motor is 2 hp. I would do 240v input. This is what I need, right? https://www.wolfautomation.com/vfd-2hp-230v-single-phase-ip20

Yes that'll do 'er. To be honest, when I was looking into them I knew I didn't want a generic SuperCheerful vfd, and Clough42 on YouTube had an excellent tutorial on programming these. They are a good product and easy to program, though there are seemingly thousands of different vfds.

 

[alfadan]

He did say something about a budget! I actually picked up two 6" versatilelock vises for $300, so I guess there are deals to had if you're lucky.

Butler county community college just had an auction with 5 or 6 Kurt DK6s with slight surface rust. I was going to bid on them, clean them up and resell for 100 Spacebucks more. They ended up going for about 300 apiece.

 

[SilverJimmy]

I bought a RPC in like new condition for $420.00 for my mill.

Works without drama, just turn it on. I understand it uses a bit of power to run, but I’m just a hobbiest, not using my mill 12 hours a day. I like that my mill is running as designed.

 

[gorilla]

Kurt vices are magic because the moving jaw has a mechanism that makes it clamp down as it moves in. Keeps the work piece squarely against the fixed jaw. Used collet's can be a **** shoot they do ware and loose consentrisity you also don't need a complete set 1/4,3/8,1/2, and 3/4 would probably cover your needs. Think about buying new. Used end mills can be a good deal just remember that regrinds are not the size marked on the shank you need to measure them before use. You will need a dial indicator and a holder that you can clamp to the mills spindle to do set up work.

 

[dutchgray]

R8 collets, just but a new set of import ones from any of the respected USA based tooling sellers, avoid the cheapest direct from China sets, that's how the dump all the out of specification stuff.

I almost never use R8 collets, I have ER32 and 40 sets, usually use the ER32 in the spindle and the 40 in collet blocks in the vice. (I have 5C collets and blocks as well)

A sensible minimum for mill tooling would be:
4" to 6" machine vice
R8 collets
R8 to MT2 and MT3 arbors
Drill chuck on R8 arbor
Clamping set
Import set of 1/8" thick machine parallels
Dial indicator on a suitable arm
Some end mills, probably carbide in 1/4", 3/8" 1/2" but really depends on intended work.
This is just my opinion.

Then you get into extra stuff like carbide insert tools, end mills, shoulder mills, face mills, plus T slot cutters, dovetail cutters etc.
Dividing/ indexing heads.
small machine Jack's.
Adjustable parallels.
Swivel and tilt vices
Angle heads for the spindle
Chucks on flat mounting plates.
V blocks
Angle plates
DRO if mill didn't come with one.
Edge finder.
Loads of Metrology tools you didn't know existed.
Etc.
It never ends with tooling

 

[Cruzan80]

They also make collet holders in R8. They have a set-screw to make sure it is held in, vs just the collet closing around it.

 

[tool_scrounge]

6” is a good size. Swivel base is an option. I use them without to get better stiffness. I have the base but rarely use it.

 

[Riverrat]

One thing to remember is that when, not if, you need parts are they readily available. You don't want to own a $1500 dollar boat anchor. Tooling for a milling machine can cost as much as the initial price of the machine. Ask me how I know. Price a good quality boring head and you will get an idea of what you might be getting into. There have been several machine shops that have gone out of business in the Denver metro area. I have been able to get tooling for cheap at the online auctions. Bridgeport mills went for very reasonable prices. I have a phase converter for my Bridgeport and my Clausing lathe. They run just fine. My experience with import tools is that Made in Taiwan is better quality than Made in China. Made in the USA, which is a part of China I have never heard of before is the best. That's why I am partial to my Bridgeport.

 

[Cruzan80]

You missed the part where he already bought it, it is essentially a Bridgeport as far as parts go, and it was $800. Not sure where you can find a BP in Denver for $800, most seem to be north of $3K+, without almost any tooling.

 

[txvwnut]

Ok, can we start the shopping list for a basic setup?

-VFD. Any recommendations?
-Vise - I started searching and I'm finding options from $60 - $1,000+. Is there a particular configuration and size that folks generally use? Any recommendations on a budget friendly option?
-I believe the mill has an R8 collet, but how would I verify this?
-Drill chuck - Made in the USA Jacobs, lightly used? https://www.ebay.com/itm/356004832936?_nkw=jacobs+drill+chuck+r8&itmmeta=01J74NQNEG94M1F030Q0RAXD2X&hash=item52e38aa6a8:g:XykAAOSw6FRm1PK~&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKkxWFMld3InMoCEsrE02bHNFdfaj11vNk1iOEUsXpSMMmEr2hD9/I2oEjTfN+yzV5H+SZTgKKJBu3z6s+zeoQ9qoSTQmrYxq8SnCubDq6nOUHpJQ5NCcpZ5V4/0Imag52KfXl0kQZ4dzzw2IXb1Ss9HyNPjnsTOceCs/a5Ed7QJTuFK/TkVmgQ3d9ad4RzwUmkXxGnojUPD0brbqcouaDQDuYjljHq9+YQ2V6TOKL2nUSn4kX3lIr1NQrKPgwfUfbX9r+lyg1yOIeOlMQTWJygPd8dHyDo132wUkM+9sQrZPg==|tkp:Bk9SR7TX3pW5ZA&edge=0
-Collets? Sets of R8 collets aren't that expensive.
-Face mills and end mills?

Thanks,

Scott

I have a few vises but the go to‘s are a 4” and a 6” swivel base import Kurt copies. The 6” weighs about 80lbs and the 4“ doesn’t have a swivel base but even if it did it‘d still be considerably lighter. I got my VFD from surplus warehouse about 10 years ago it’s a Teco brand. I use either Albrecht or Rohm chucks as I can’t stand Jacob’s chucks, and prefer drill chucks with the made in arbor. For end mills just pick up an import brand set that comes in the wooden box, you’re gonna kill a few till you learn what not to do so no need in spending big bucks on quality. If you are wanting face mills or shell mills this is when I hit eBay as those things ain’t cheap and a decent used one will serve you well.

 

[txvwnut]

I'm having trouble picturing a 2-piece r8 collet. Every r8 collet I've ever seen has been machined from a single chunk of steel.

They’re out there and when I went to replace my collets I looked everywhere to find one piece collets. I was surprised at how many of the name brand players made two piece collets.

 

[bimmer1980]

I recently bought this Earl Diamond drill chuck with R8 stud that seems to work reasonably well.

This or something similar would at least get you drilling some holes...

Edit - notice the "soft" tooling in the vise. This was to hold a piston for a golf cart that needed a light machine on the inside for connecting rod clearance. Chinese piston missed a clean up pass on the inside. Faster to machine it a few thou than to dink with returning and ordering something else.

 

[bulletpruf]

R8 collets, just but a new set of import ones from any of the respected USA based tooling sellers, avoid the cheapest direct from China sets, that's how the dump all the out of specification stuff.

I almost never use R8 collets, I have ER32 and 40 sets, usually use the ER32 in the spindle and the 40 in collet blocks in the vice. (I have 5C collets and blocks as well)

A sensible minimum for mill tooling would be:
4" to 6" machine vice

I'd rather not spend $1,000 on a Kurt vise for my $800 mill. I'm thinking I should get 4" or a 6" vise, or maybe two, both with swivel base. Lots of options on offshore stuff on Amazon and inexpensive, too, but worried about quality.

R8 collets

These? Shars, $42 for the set: https://www.amazon.com/SHARS-Piece-Precision-Collet-202-5131/dp/B081K95NQ1/?tag=atomicindus08-20

R8 to MT2 and MT3 arbors

Shars R8 to MT2 - https://www.amazon.com/SHARS-Shank-Sleeve-Bridgeport-202-1433/dp/B07YYMPX1Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Steelex R8 to MT3 (Shars had lousy reviews) - https://www.amazon.com/Steelex-M1093-R-8-No-3-Sleeve/dp/B005W1BXFS/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Drill chuck on R8 arbor

Here's an Albrecht on eBay for $300.

ALBRECHT Keyless Chuck 1/32 - 1/2” Diameter w/AO833 R-8 Arbor – NICE | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for ALBRECHT Keyless Chuck 1/32 - 1/2” Diameter w/AO833 R-8 Arbor – NICE at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Clamping set

have that already

Import set of 1/8" thick machine parallels

Does it matter if they're 5" or 6" long? Here's a highly rated set - https://www.amazon.com/Accusize-Ind...EG10-1405/dp/B0CKC281VP/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Dial indicator on a suitable arm

Have a few but nothing high quality at this point.

Some end mills, probably carbide in 1/4", 3/8" 1/2" but really depends on intended work.

Ok, will have to research this a bit.

This is just my opinion.

Then you get into extra stuff like carbide insert tools, end mills, shoulder mills, face mills, plus T slot cutters, dovetail cutters etc.
Dividing/ indexing heads.
small machine Jack's.
Adjustable parallels.
Swivel and tilt vices
Angle heads for the spindle
Chucks on flat mounting plates.
V blocks
Angle plates
DRO if mill didn't come with one.
Edge finder.
Loads of Metrology tools you didn't know existed.
Etc.
It never ends with tooling

 

[whateg01]

Careful with keyless chucks on the mill. It has the cajones to spin a big drill or hole saw at speeds that are appropriate for them. But they self tighten. So it's very easy to end up with a tool in the chuck that you can't get out.

You can do a lot with a 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 endmills. I found some inexpensive 3/8 carbide on Amazon that have done great. I don't know what it is about them that has them holding an edge better than most I've used, name brand or not, but I like them. Smaller cutters don't hammer as bad as a big face mill either. I went a long time with just endmills and a fly cutter before finally getting a 2" facemill.

I say get the basics and figure out what tooling you need to do the work you want to do rather than spending money on tools that sound useful but you never use.

 

[RoninB4]

Lots of advice here, but the OP doesn't even know what he's going to be machining yet. A vise would be good to have and a few end mills too, anything more than that is speculation and even maybe wasted money on tooling that sits waiting for an appropriate job.

Not to be snarky but do you (OP/Scott) have any machining experience? There's potential for several broken end mills as you learn. If this is so I would suggest avoiding carbide mills for a short while.

All the tooling suggested may be good suggestions but when are you going to need them? Buy the tooling as you need it. It gets expensive quick and you need to buy measuring instruments as well.

An small lathe like a SB-9 isn't a bad choice but it's not much more than a hobby grade lathe, it was even when brand new. Most SB lathes are very worn by now and this can make creating accurate parts difficult. Be sure you understand this before buying somebody else's worn out machine.

 

[bulletpruf]

Lots of advice here, but the OP doesn't even know what he's going to be machining yet. A vise would be good to have and a few end mills too, anything more than that is speculation and even maybe wasted money on tooling that sits waiting for an appropriate job.

Not to be snarky but do you (OP/Scott) have any machining experience? There's potential for several broken end mills as you learn. If this is so I would suggest avoiding carbide mills for a short while.

Zero experience on a mill or lathe.

All the tooling suggested may be good suggestions but when are you going to need them? Buy the tooling as you need it. It gets expensive quick and you need to buy measuring instruments as well.

As mentioned early on in the thread, I really need a drill press, so the mill will certainly be drilling holes. Figure I'll ease into the machining as needed.

I've got a bit of measuring equipment, but mostly stuff you'd use for building engines - dial bore gauges, snap gauges, outside mic's, calipers, dial indicators and stands, etc.

An small lathe like a SB-9 isn't a bad choice but it's not much more than a hobby grade lathe, it was even when brand new. Most SB lathes are very worn by now and this can make creating accurate parts difficult. Be sure you understand this before buying somebody else's worn out machine.

I'm looking for a small lathe; plan to set it up in the garage, where space is very limited. Good point on buying someone else's worn out machine.

Thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

Careful with keyless chucks on the mill. It has the cajones to spin a big drill or hole saw at speeds that are appropriate for them. But they self tighten. So it's very easy to end up with a tool in the chuck that you can't get out.

Ouch. Don't want to end up doing that.

You can do a lot with a 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 endmills. I found some inexpensive 3/8 carbide on Amazon that have done great. I don't know what it is about them that has them holding an edge better than most I've used, name brand or not, but I like them. Smaller cutters don't hammer as bad as a big face mill either. I went a long time with just endmills and a fly cutter before finally getting a 2" facemill.

I say get the basics and figure out what tooling you need to do the work you want to do rather than spending money on tools that sound useful but you never use.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Jswain]

Make sure when you're clamping **** to the table, parts, vise, whatever. That the threaded section of the bolt or stud cannot extend past the bottom of the Tnut. If it does that is an excellent way of blowing out a chunk from your Tslot on the mill table.

The t slots in your table are very strong when clamped in compression, and very fragile if the stud pokes through the bottom and starts pushing the Tslot up.

Most t nuts in the clamping sets are not fully threaded to make sure this won't happen, but worth checking every single time you use a new one. Deform the last thread with a chisel or die grinder or something if needed.

 

[Firstram]

Make sure when you're clamping **** to the table, parts, vise, whatever. That the threaded section of the bolt or stud cannot extend past the bottom of the Tnut. If it does that is an excellent way of blowing out a chunk from your Tslot on the mill table.

The t slots in your table are very strong when clamped in compression, and very fragile if the stud pokes through the bottom and starts pushing the Tslot up.

Most t nuts in the clamping sets are not fully threaded to make sure this won't happen, but worth checking every single time you use a new one. Deform the last thread with a chisel or die grinder or something if needed.

Quoted because this needs to be read twice!

 

[Steve from Socal]

For all you B-port type guys, Scott are you listening?

There is a pin in the spindle of your machine, it keeps the R8 collet in position when you tighten them. The reason B-port 'suggests' 3/8 drills in steel or not using 3" face mills deep in steel are because these pins can shear easily. This is the biggest issue with R8 spindles. Tread lightly on your chip load. Turret mills are the most versatile milling machine, they are also the most delicate!

 

[dutchgray]

I'd rather not spend $1,000 on a Kurt vise for my $800 mill. I'm thinking I should get 4" or a 6" vise, or maybe two, both with swivel base. Lots of options on offshore stuff on Amazon and inexpensive, too, but worried about quality.

These? Shars, $42 for the set: https://www.amazon.com/SHARS-Piece-Precision-Collet-202-5131/dp/B081K95NQ1/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Shars R8 to MT2 - https://www.amazon.com/SHARS-Shank-Sleeve-Bridgeport-202-1433/dp/B07YYMPX1Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Steelex R8 to MT3 (Shars had lousy reviews) - https://www.amazon.com/Steelex-M1093-R-8-No-3-Sleeve/dp/B005W1BXFS/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Here's an Albrecht on eBay for $300.

ALBRECHT Keyless Chuck 1/32 - 1/2” Diameter w/AO833 R-8 Arbor – NICE | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for ALBRECHT Keyless Chuck 1/32 - 1/2” Diameter w/AO833 R-8 Arbor – NICE at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

have that already

Does it matter if they're 5" or 6" long? Here's a highly rated set - https://www.amazon.com/Accusize-Ind...EG10-1405/dp/B0CKC281VP/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Have a few but nothing high quality at this point.

Ok, will have to research this research

An import vice is acceptable, I would go 6" and mount it without the swivel base, unless you need to use the swivel.

I think Shars stuff is OK, never used it but I'm in the UK and we have different suppliers, the tooling is mostly the same stuff.

Parallels should be the same length as the width of the vice you chose.

Drill chuck you can buy whatever chuck you want, keyed, keyless, cheap imported or high quality and buy an R8 arbor to whatever taper the chuck has, usually a Jacobs taper but in Europe we get a lot of B tapers as well. I would choose a 5/8" capacity keyed chuck if I was only going to have one, keyless chucks shouldn't be used with drills larger than their rated capacity.

Dial indicator does not have to be high quality, you use it to tram the mill head (make it square to the table) and tram the vice in (align to table travel). As long as it works ok it will do.

 

[whateg01]

For all you B-port type guys, Scott are you listening?

There is a pin in the spindle of your machine, it keeps the R8 collet in position when you tighten them. The reason B-port 'suggests' 3/8 drills in steel or not using 3" face mills deep in steel are because these pins can shear easily. This is the biggest issue with R8 spindles. Tread lightly on your chip load. Turret mills are the most versatile milling machine, they are also the most delicate!

I bet the one in op machine is already gone.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Ok, can we start the shopping list for a basic setup?

-VFD. Any recommendations?
-Vise - I started searching and I'm finding options from $60 - $1,000+. Is there a particular configuration and size that folks generally use? Any recommendations on a budget friendly option?
-I believe the mill has an R8 collet, but how would I verify this?
-Drill chuck - Made in the USA Jacobs, lightly used? https://www.ebay.com/itm/356004832936?_nkw=jacobs+drill+chuck+r8&itmmeta=01J74NQNEG94M1F030Q0RAXD2X&hash=item52e38aa6a8:g:XykAAOSw6FRm1PK~&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKkxWFMld3InMoCEsrE02bHNFdfaj11vNk1iOEUsXpSMMmEr2hD9/I2oEjTfN+yzV5H+SZTgKKJBu3z6s+zeoQ9qoSTQmrYxq8SnCubDq6nOUHpJQ5NCcpZ5V4/0Imag52KfXl0kQZ4dzzw2IXb1Ss9HyNPjnsTOceCs/a5Ed7QJTuFK/TkVmgQ3d9ad4RzwUmkXxGnojUPD0brbqcouaDQDuYjljHq9+YQ2V6TOKL2nUSn4kX3lIr1NQrKPgwfUfbX9r+lyg1yOIeOlMQTWJygPd8dHyDo132wUkM+9sQrZPg==|tkp:Bk9SR7TX3pW5ZA&edge=0
-Collets? Sets of R8 collets aren't that expensive.
-Face mills and end mills?

Thanks,

Scott

Your thread is changing a bit. If you want to edit the title and need help, just shoot me a PM

 

[bulletpruf]

For all you B-port type guys, Scott are you listening?

There is a pin in the spindle of your machine, it keeps the R8 collet in position when you tighten them. The reason B-port 'suggests' 3/8 drills in steel or not using 3" face mills deep in steel are because these pins can shear easily. This is the biggest issue with R8 spindles. Tread lightly on your chip load. Turret mills are the most versatile milling machine, they are also the most delicate!

Thanks for the details. It appears that I still need a drill press for the shop!

 

[bulletpruf]

An import vice is acceptable, I would go 6" and mount it without the swivel base, unless you need to use the swivel.

I think Shars stuff is OK, never used it but I'm in the UK and we have different suppliers, the tooling is mostly the same stuff.

Parallels should be the same length as the width of the vice you chose.

Drill chuck you can buy whatever chuck you want, keyed, keyless, cheap imported or high quality and buy an R8 arbor to whatever taper the chuck has, usually a Jacobs taper but in Europe we get a lot of B tapers as well. I would choose a 5/8" capacity keyed chuck if I was only going to have one, keyless chucks shouldn't be used with drills larger than their rated capacity.

Dial indicator does not have to be high quality, you use it to tram the mill head (make it square to the table) and tram the vice in (align to table travel). As long as it works ok it will do.

DG - Thanks for the detailed recommendations. I appreciate it.

Scott

 

[bulletpruf]

I bet the one in op machine is already gone.

It's always a bit of a treasure hunt when buying old stuff, isn't it? Finding broken stuff, MIA parts, shoddy old repairs. Hope this one doesn't have a lot of unpleasant surprises.

Thanks