Box for future expansion?

[Innovate1]

Wiring up my detached garage and putting the wiring in the walls. But want to make it easier to add stuff later. Running a conduit from the panel to the attic for that. Also running conduit to a box on the other side of the room so I can pull wire for whatever and using a fairly big box. Any suggestions on what box to use?

Also thinking I will run a conduit out the top of the panel to a box near the ceiling that sticks out of the wall so I can attach conduit later and run where ever. Thinking a deep enough box to connect to the conduit in the wall and also on the surface something like this:

https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/electrical-boxes-covers/electrical-boxes/carlon-reg-pvc-enclosure-box/e987rr/p-1444444973855-c-6425.htm

Or should I just use a large metal box that is flush now and add an expansion ring later if needed?

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

I wouldn't use a PVC box. I'd also use a larger box, at least an 8x8x4. Only issue is if your conduit is PVC then you'll have to pull a bond wire in to bond the metal enclosure. If you're running EMT in the future, some EMT fittings don't have enough threads to work well with the thickness of PVC boxes... which is why I prefer metal when I can.

Plan sounds great to me, I like future proofing.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[Innovate1]

I wouldn't use a PVC box. I'd also use a larger box, at least an 8x8x4. Only issue is if your conduit is PVC then you'll have to pull a bond wire in to bond the metal enclosure. If you're running EMT in the future, some EMT fittings don't have enough threads to work well with the thickness of PVC boxes... which is why I prefer metal when I can.

Plan sounds great to me, I like future proofing.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

I don't ever expect to use EMT. PVC is so much easier to work with (IMHO).

I only looked a little but didn't find deep metal boxes that would allow a connection to a conduit in the wall and conduits outside the wall.

A metal box would be more durable but I think PVC would be ok. Any other reasons than thickness with EMT?

 

[Terry D]

I agree what Kevin said, use a metal box that size. I take it that the panel is getting drywalled in. This will be your only chance to get stuff in for future, or you cutting the wall open. Sounds like a good plan.

 

[Terry D]

I don't ever expect to use EMT. PVC is so much easier to work with (IMHO).

I only looked a little but didn't find deep metal boxes that would allow a connection to a conduit in the wall and conduits outside the wall.

A metal box would be more durable but I think PVC would be ok. Any other reasons than thickness with EMT?

My opinion , EMT just looks better.

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

My opinion , EMT just looks better.

I have to agree with you on this. It looks way better.

 

[egdede]

I wouldn't use a PVC box. I'd also use a larger box, at least an 8x8x4. Only issue is if your conduit is PVC then you'll have to pull a bond wire in to bond the metal enclosure. If you're running EMT in the future, some EMT fittings don't have enough threads to work well with the thickness of PVC boxes... which is why I prefer metal when I can....

^^^8X8X4 for ease of access and plenty of room. Use these and your future self will love you. I just added 10 circuits and used WAGOs. I added an outlet to a branch circuit without undoing a single wire-nut!

https://www.lowes.com/pd/WIEGMANN-S...tandard-Enclosure-Wall-Electrical-Box/1194493

 

[u2slow]

For the odd time I've ended up with this inside/outside wall problem, normally put a box in the wall, and go to an extension ring to add surface wiring. These are pre-made in the 4" or 4-11/16" boxes.

For larger boxes (8x8", 12x12", etc), cut the back out one box (except for a lip) making a big extension ring you screw to the duplicate box you put in the wall.

 

[sparky 1971]

Just run the conduit(s) to a regular 4X4 box, put a single gang mud ring on it and blank it off. In the future, install a Raco 187 box over it.

It obviously doesn't have to be Raco, that's just what my local supply houses carry.

Edit: Use a two gang mud ring. See post #14.

 

[Innovate1]

Just run the conduit(s) to a regular 4X4 box, put a single gang mud ring on it and blank it off. In the future, install a Raco 187 box over it.

It obviously doesn't have to be Raco, that's just what my local supply houses carry.

Seems like the single gang plate is restrictive. Why not just a 4 x 4 box and ext ring?

 

[sparky 1971]

Seems like the single gang plate is restrictive. Why not just a 4 x 4 box and ext ring?

If it's for a future "maybe", you will probably have a box flush with the finished wall or ceiling and the extension box will be later. I personally think a 4X4 blank would look terrible because it won't cover the cut out. A single gang ring would have a single gang blank and look like it belongs. It would only be restrictive if you were to use #6 wire and would still be doable.

Usually when I do a garage/shop I put two boxes with a single gang ring above and below the panel and run a short piece of 3/4 smurf pipe to all of them just for the future. I haven't been back for the future yet for any of them though.

This is just my opinion so it really doesn't matter. You can do what you want

 

[teamextreme]

For things like this I like to use a 4-11/16" box. Provides way more room than a 4x4 without going to oddities like 8x8 which are not common and provide their own difficulties in mounting, finishing in a flush mount config, mounting surface conduit to, etc. You can get 4-11/16" x 2-1/8" bracket boxes for easy mounting to studs and you can get standard mudrings for flush mounting (I would recommend 2-gang for better access). I ran a 3/4" EMT up to the attic to a 4-11/16 box in my shop for future use.

 

[sparky 1971]

For things like this I like to use a 4-11/16" box. Provides way more room than a 4x4 without going to oddities like 8x8 which are not common and provide their own difficulties in mounting, finishing in a flush mount config, mounting surface conduit to, etc. You can get 4-11/16" x 2-1/8" bracket boxes for easy mounting to studs and you can get standard mudrings for flush mounting (I would recommend 2-gang for better access). I ran a 3/4" EMT up to the attic to a 4-11/16 box in my shop for future use.

Maybe there is a product available that I am unaware of. How does one go about surface mounting conduit from a flush mounted two gang mud ring? A single gang ring can have a "Harold" box (Raco 187) mounted to it.

 

[alfredeneuman]

How does one go about surface mounting conduit from a flush mounted two gang mud ring?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RACO-4-...n-KO-s-for-Switch-Boxes-25-Pack-187/202101440

Just turn the box 90°. The 4 holes in the back line up with the 6-32 device holes

 

[Bert_]

Forget the mud ring, too hard to work through for no reason. Just mount a 4sq box flush with the drywall. Either blank it or mount an extension ring.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Forget the mud ring, too hard to work through for no reason. Just mount a 4sq box flush with the drywall. Either blank it or mount an extension ring.

How would you finish the drywall around the box without having it look like a POS?
You can easily finish around the ring and the extension box will cover it.

 

[Bert_]

How would you finish the drywall around the box without having it look like a POS?
You can easily finish around the ring and the extension box will cover it.

Just to be clear we are talking about a garage. It's not the living room ceiling...

Besides even if the tapers don't get it close a quick bead of caulk will fill any gap around the box.

 

[sparky 1971]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RACO-4-...n-KO-s-for-Switch-Boxes-25-Pack-187/202101440

Just turn the box 90°. The 4 holes in the back line up with the 6-32 device holes

That would be the Raco 187 I spoke of in my first post. (#9). It mounts to a single gang. Is there a similar box that mounts to a two gang?.

Edit: I just looked at the picture again. I have never ever noticed those holes. I just went out and grabbed an extension off my truck. Sure as hell, they line up with a two gang. Now I am thinking of all the things I shouldn't have done in the past to get started with an existing two gang.

Thank you!

 

[sparky 1971]

Just to be clear we are talking about a garage. It's not the living room ceiling...

Besides even if the tapers don't get it close a quick bead of caulk will fill any gap around the box.

Even if it's get's taped it's still gonna look like ****. It will more than likely never get used, but if it does, what will be in it? A couple of #12 or #10's? A mud ring isn't that hard to work with. Pull the wires to the box, plan on a set of joints there, put the transition box on and go like hell on the surface with EMT.

 

[Bert_]

That would be the Raco 187 I spoke of in my first post. (#9). It mounts to a single gang. Is there a similar box that mounts to a two gang?.

It also mounts to 2 gang.

It is a pain to pull wires into the back box once the extension is on.

 

[sparky 1971]

It also mounts to 2 gang.

It is a pain to pull wires into the back box once the extension is on.

I know wires are a pain in the **** to get in there once the extension is on. I look at it as a one time thing. If there is reason to think it will be needed again, pull extra wires to it at the time of the first add on. Maybe a black, red, blue, white #12 and a couple of #10's. Or set a box on the ceiling and one on each wall for the future.

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

How would you finish the drywall around the box without having it look like a POS?
You can easily finish around the ring and the extension box will cover it.

I installed a 10×10 in a garage for fiber optic cables. The box was half recessed because I used a 6" deep box. They put plywood on the walls (drywall wouldn't make much of a difference) and put some trim around it to make it look good.

If I had made the box stick out more, the trim could have been pushed tight against it.

If you use a 6" deep box, half can be recessed, and half protruding. When you go to add, there's still plenty of room to make a knock out and do an offset into the box over the trim.

Here's a photo.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[alfredeneuman]

A 10"X10" is one thing. There are no extension rings for a 10X10
With a 4X4? Really?


To make a 6" deep 4X4 you'd have to use 3 extension rings.......talk about being hard to run wires

 

[Terry D]

Im going to go a whole different approach here. The ideal thing would be to surface mount a 1900 of 4 11/16 box on the wall after it is dry walled and taped. You would have to come in the back of the box with a 3/4 or (1) or (2) 1/2 flex (Greenfield ) As long as it is right above the panel, it wont be bad pulling wire through it. Possibly put a string in it. Don't know if this is a 2x4 or 2x6 wall, 2x6 would be better. I know it is a tight bending radius, but doable. The whole box will be on top the drywall, and bringing conduits out of it would be a breeze. The only thing is that the flex will have to be supported up there until dry walled. I have done these with recessed panels after it is dry walled, I fished a flex down the wall into the panel.

You could even run a couple of 12/3 MC's up into the box, that would give you (4) 20 amp circuits for the future.

 

[Innovate1]

Want to be able to add a higher current circuit or two so would be good to have two 3/4 or one 1" conduit to the box. I see some 4-11/16 and maybe some 4" boxes have 1" knockouts so guess I could go either way. Putting conduit in the wall is no problem so a deep box flush with the wall for a future extension ring is my current plan.

I was thinking of also a conduit from the panel to the attic that just ends there for cable (not individual wires) but maybe I should be putting a box in the attic? That would allow me to continue with conduit of something else. It's a long run to the attic - about 10' up and I think there are rules against NM in conduit with some exceptions but not sure of the specifics.