breaker lock ?

[The Cobbler]

a place that I used to work at had many locks on the breakers so that the breakers could not be shut off accidentally or on purpose. they were a metal bracket that were fastened to the breaker handle .they were on things like alarm system power, overhead heaters and so on. they would still trip but you couldn't physically switch off the breaker . I was told these do not exist any more due to safety reasons? .
How can one protect an essential breaker for an alarm system from being accidentally turned off?
thanks

 

[Walkers]

Keep the panel locked.

 

[The Cobbler]

not an option . no cover ( wasn't designed to have one)

 

[Shiftless]

Is it legal to build a shallow cabinet over the panel and then put a locking door on the cabinet?

 

[Chumly]

Lockout/tag out locks, just turned over so that they're locked on instead of off.

https://www.grainger.com/category/safety/lockout-tagout/electrical-lockouts/circuit-breaker-lockouts

Residential Electricians should chime in here. Does the breaker lever need to be free to actually trip? Ripping a square-D one apart has it appear the lever doesn't have to move to physically trip and the lever feel/movement seems like a visual feature

...I don't wanna burn someone's garage down.

Weird thinking breaker panels can be locked isn't it? I'd want quick access to the cut off and not go find a key if a Charlie fire starts. I've had two Zinzco breaker fires so I'm pretty happy I could just quickly open the panel and kill the mains. I'd dump the idea of locking an entire panel just to keep something on. Even the lockout things I'm thinking of can get yanked off if you really needed to; They're just speed bumps.

 

[sparky 1971]

What brand of panel?

 

[The Cobbler]

there are breakers that need to be accessible for volunteers. I just don't want the heater / alarm, and stuff like that inadvertently shut off

 

[The Cobbler]

Federal Pioneer is the panel

 

[wyliesdiesels]

a place that I used to work at had many locks on the breakers so that the breakers could not be shut off accidentally or on purpose. they were a metal bracket that were fastened to the breaker handle .they were on things like alarm system power, overhead heaters and so on. they would still trip but you couldn't physically switch off the breaker. I was told these do not exist any more due to safety reasons?
How can one protect an essential breaker for an alarm system from being accidentally turned off?
thanks

They actually do still exist and are sold, albeit maybe not the ones listed for your panel. I see them on new buildings specifically for the fire alarm system breakers.

FYI, the reasoning they dont exist because of safety is most likely bogus. A breaker can and does still trip regardless of the handle being locked in the closed (on) position...

 

[The Cobbler]

Thanks all
I suspected the claim of safety as well. I will reach out to our electrician and see . I thought I could pickup a few & put then on myself. Oh well.

 

[rlitman]

Lockout/tag out locks, just turned over so that they're locked on instead of off.

https://www.grainger.com/category/safety/lockout-tagout/electrical-lockouts/circuit-breaker-lockouts

Residential Electricians should chime in here. Does the breaker lever need to be free to actually trip? Ripping a square-D one apart has it appear the lever doesn't have to move to physically trip and the lever feel/movement seems like a visual feature

...I don't wanna burn someone's garage down.

Weird thinking breaker panels can be locked isn't it? I'd want quick access to the cut off and not go find a key if a Charlie fire starts. I've had two Zinzco breaker fires so I'm pretty happy I could just quickly open the panel and kill the mains. I'd dump the idea of locking an entire panel just to keep something on. Even the lockout things I'm thinking of can get yanked off if you really needed to; They're just speed bumps.

Breaker handles do not need to move to trip internally. Note how any breaker can be flipped from the tripped position to on, yet does not turn on unless you flip it off first.

The Master 493B should fit on top of breakers like that. I have those, and 491B for big ones that don't have their own lock-out levers.

But be aware that Federal Pioneer is the same construction as Federal Pacific and Zinsco, so safety? Perhaps not.

 

[The Cobbler]

Breaker handles do not need to move to trip internally. Note how any breaker can be flipped from the tripped position to on, yet does not turn on unless you flip it off first.

The Master 493B should fit on top of breakers like that. I have those, and 491B for big ones that don't have their own lock-out levers.

But be aware that Federal Pioneer is the same construction as Federal Pacific and Zinsco, so safety? Perhaps not.

I was told the issue was with US federal panels, not CSA rated ( Canadian) panels when I asked about upgrading my home panel after reading that on here
thanks for the tips

 

[sparky 1971]

Sorry, I've never heard of a Federal Pioneer. IF it's the same design as a Federal Pacific, this might work.

Manufactured by - FEDERAL PACIFIC ELECTRIC

1LOK Circuit Breaker from FEDERAL PACIFIC ELECTRIC 2-Year Warranty - DISCONTINUED BY MANUFACTURER, LOCKOUT FOR CIRCUIT BREAKER, 15-50A, 1 POLE.

www.radwell.com

 

[rlitman]

I was told the issue was with US federal panels, not CSA rated ( Canadian) panels when I asked about upgrading my home panel after reading that on here
thanks for the tips

Dunno. These guys seem to think otherwise:

Should Federal Pioneer FP Stab-Lok® Panels & Circuit Breakers be Replaced?

inspectapedia.com

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Breaker handles do not need to move to trip internally. Note how any breaker can be flipped from the tripped position to on, yet does not turn on unless you flip it off first.

The Master 493B should fit on top of breakers like that. I have those, and 491B for big ones that don't have their own lock-out levers.

But be aware that Federal Pioneer is the same construction as Federal Pacific and Zinsco, so safety? Perhaps not.

I was told the issue was with US federal panels, not CSA rated ( Canadian) panels when I asked about upgrading my home panel after reading that on here
thanks for the tips

Dunno. These guys seem to think otherwise:

Should Federal Pioneer FP Stab-Lok® Panels & Circuit Breakers be Replaced?

inspectapedia.com

Federal Pioneer (canadian flavor of infamous Federal Pacific Electric) does not have the same problems

 

[The Cobbler]

This site never ceases to amaze me with the knowledge base on here

 

[The Cobbler]

The Master 493B should fit on top of breakers like that. I .....

can I remove the padlock hasp portion on that ? I just want it to be resistant to unintentional shut offs

 

[rlitman]

can I remove the padlock hasp portion on that ? I just want it to be resistant to unintentional shut offs

I don't see why not. It does not require a padlock to be on it to work, so I also don't see why you would need to remove it.

 

[The Cobbler]

ok,makes sense. thanks

 

[Nosferatu]

Armed security guard.

 

[rlitman]

To clarify, the Master 493B has a plastic lever on top that comes down over a metal body. There's a plastic (it appears to be glass reinforced) ring on the lever, and a metal ring on the body that meet when it is closed. Either one would be easy to snip off.

The lever has a cam that pushes one side of the clamp, while a screw that is accessible when the lever is up adjusts the other side of the clamp.

 

[dscheidt]

Garvin sell a nifty little bracket that serves this purpose. It has no provision for locking out, just a set screw that keeps the breaker handle from moving. Put it one way, it keeps them off, turn it around it keeps them on. You need a small screwdriver to back the set screw out, so they're just tamper resistant, not tamper proof. https://www.garvinindustries.com/pa...t/universal-breaker-locks-one-pole/p/UBL1-RED

They also work on standard toggle style wall switches.

 

[Norcal]

Federal Pioneer is the panel

If it had been a decent make, most manufacturers have a breaker lock to hold the handle ON, and it does not prevent the breaker from tripping.

 

[Chumly]

I don't think any hard, full metal lock will make it impossible to activate if you really wanted to de-energize the circuit. However, it should alert anyone to just not randomly turn that one circuit off or on; Lock or not. If you want to deter someone to not turn a circuit off, the LOTO breaker "lock" should do just that. If there's a lock on it, a screwdriver will get it off quicker than finding bolt cutters for a lock placed on it.

Ugh, there's a huge on-going discussion about hanging locks on these things too for too many years with nothing but suggestions in OSHA regs. A Standard MasterLock is too heavy and pulls on the breaker and causes sag and thus far is suggested to use those tiny suitcase locks or just zipties. If it's for work, be careful since it's a LO/TO device, please. We're seeing more of that lately in the states. One guy, same age as me, said there's no lock out where he came from which I highly doubt. It's OSHA.

 

[The Cobbler]

this is purely to reduce inadvertently switching the breakers off to crucial circuits

 

[Chumly]

Redneck in me says "Paint them red", but the redneck in me also says "I know others like me" >

Paint won't physically stop someone, but would stop me or at least make me think twice why my finger is on the switch painted red. Loose fingers bug me so I like contraptions over all like that clasp just keeping other's fingers off of that thing. we're drawn to triggers and we're not always around to slap hands.

 

[ycgoat]

It may be a code violation to lock most breakers on, I could be confusing disconnect switches (I did not research it first) , but the exceptions are typically for life safety like Fire pumps. If people are inadvertently switching the wrong breaker I would resolve with a warning tag, clear labeling, and training or speaking to anyone who may get into the panel. You could also add switches to isolate power at the equipment that is supposed to be turned off, to keep them out of the panel, and it would be easier if the disconnect was at the work location. I will typically put a switch with a lockable cover at my security panels, but that is a 1p 120v low current set up and is done to keep low voltage technicians out of the electrical panels.

 

[nh_yota]

Put some red electrical tape over the breaker with DO NO TURN OFF written on it.

If someone ignores it than that is the least of your problems.

 

[grounded-b]

Weird thinking breaker panels can be locked isn't it? I'd want quick access to the cut off and not go find a key if a Charlie fire starts. I've had two Zinzco breaker fires so I'm pretty happy I could just quickly open the panel and kill the mains. I'd dump the idea of locking an entire panel just to keep something on. Even the lockout things I'm thinking of can get yanked off if you really needed to; They're just speed bumps.

Personal safety is a higher priority than physical property.

If I'm working on a circuit, and the breaker is not configured to be locked off, I will lock the cover to the panel as an alternative

Steve (electrician)

 

[Stice1]

I work in the fire alarm industry code requires the alarm panel breaker be locked. Below is what we use. They are universal, like $5, and allow the breaker to trip just not be turned off inadvertently.

ELOCK-FA Fire Alarm Circuit Lockout Kit

This lockout kit ensures the critical life safety system circuits within your electrical panel will always be clearly identified, preventing accidental de-activation of Fire or MNS circuits .Circuit breaker lockout tabHex keyPanel identification stickers

www.1sae.com

 

[infinkc]

Put some red electrical tape over the breaker with DO NO TURN OFF written on it.

If someone ignores it than that is the least of your problems.

Came to say the same thing, seen this done before and never once did I want to switch the breakers off. I have done it with that new dymo tape that you can print on, For the breaker in my panel for my fish tank, so someone doesn’t turn it off.

 

[nadogail]

Every time I think sometime is Idiot Proof, better Idiots are born.

 

[Chumly]

Every time I think sometime is Idiot Proof, better Idiots are born.

You found me! I did mention even the LOTO locks can be pulled off with a good tug or a screwdiver, red tape isn't going to slow me down. I'm, however, in the mentality that it's NOT a Lock-out/Tag-Out and just a deterrent to "Please don't turn this off without asking" because it's for the smoke detectors, yet ours are found all the time in OFF because, what I'm guessing, is that they're beeping and they want them to die some day and not fix the issue...dunno.

That's a rant in it's own that I think the OP and several here are feeling.

 

[ycgoat]

We have been installing permanent locking devices on our existing panels and new ones are purchased with them. to resolve the typical flimsy lock out devices. I do not lock devices in the on position, and typically other than LOTO the panels and electrical rooms are locked to ensure only qualified people have access.

 

[yyc_ranger_4x4]

We use breaker locks on a very common basis...mostly fire alarms and critical circuits. You don't want someone going in and turning stuff off that shouldn't be. Also, Fire Code states that the Fire Alarm breakers have to be identified red in color. Usually we use the breaker locks that are manufacturer specific....however Rack-A-Tiers and a few others make universal ones.

And yes, the breakers will still trip even with the handle locked on. They trip internally, and the handle will show once you pop off the breaker lock. I'm not a big fan of using LOTO devices for locking breakers on, people start to confuse the proper use and their intent....but I have done it to satisfy an inspector until a proper lock can be had.