Breaker panel layout.

[Codyboy]

While neutrals can't be doubled up, grounds can

ONLY for neutrals/grounded conductors

So which is it?
Not that I'll have an issue with neutral holes but just for reference.
Just spitballing here but it seems they would provide a way to separate the left and right neutral bars.
So you wouldn't have to add a ground bar when doing a subpanel.
I think there are some like that I've seen before. Maybe a GE panel, I don't remember. But one had a flat bar that tied the left and right.

 

[mike93lx]

So which is it?
Not that I'll have an issue with neutral holes but just for reference.
Just spitballing here but it seems they would provide a way to separate the left and right neutral bars.
So you wouldn't have to add a ground bar when doing a subpanel.
I think there are some like that I've seen before. Maybe a GE panel, I don't remember. But one had a flat bar that tied the left and right.

As far as I know, neutrals can't be double tapped, but wylie is the pro, so I'll need him to clarify

 

[rlitman]

So which is it?...

It's the letter of the code. wylie is spot on, but the code wording can be confusing. The neutral is the grounded (current carrying) conductor. The ground is the grounding conductor.

If the panel is the point where neutral is bonded to ground, then the bars serve the purpose for both. If not, then you have separate bars, with the grounding bar electrically bonded to the panel, and the neutral (grounded) bar isolated from the panel. Either way, multiple ground wires are allowed to be brought together under a single screw, but you cannot do that with neutral wires. The reason is that momentarily loosening the screw on a ground wire shouldn't do anything dangerous, but loosening the screw on a pair of neutral wires when only one circuit is off can lead to dangerous conditions on the circuit that remains on.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So which is it?
Not that I'll have an issue with neutral holes but just for reference.
Just spitballing here but it seems they would provide a way to separate the left and right neutral bars.
So you wouldn't have to add a ground bar when doing a subpanel.
I think there are some like that I've seen before. Maybe a GE panel, I don't remember. But one had a flat bar that tied the left and right.

mike and I said the same thing. not sure where the confusion lies.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

As far as I know, neutrals can't be double tapped, but wylie is the pro, so I'll need him to clarify

nothing to clarify. we said the same thing

 

[bornbadbob]

Also avoiding across from each other as they are sharing the same stab.

Good advice

 

[mike93lx]

mike and I said the same thing. not sure where the confusion lies.

Your post about "only neutrals/grounds" when we were talking about double tapping on the bar sounded to me like you were saying neutrals could have more than one under a single screw

 

[Codyboy]

Your post about "only neutrals/grounds" when we were talking about double tapping on the bar sounded to me like you were saying neutrals could have more than one under a single screw

Yes the / made me think either/or, both.

 

[mike93lx]

Yes the / made me think either/or, both.

Who's on first?

 

[N_Jay]

4 Quadrants

1) Lighting Circuits

2) Outlet Circuits

3) Dedicated Circuits - Shop Equipment
a) Lift
b) Welder
c) Compressor
Etc.

4) Building Support Circuits
a) HVAC
b) Well Pump
c) Water Heater
d) Surge Suppressor
e) Control board (Telcom, Internet, Wifi Switches, Building timers, etc.)
Etc.

Open spaces between quadrants

p.s. breakers are rated in a full panel, so don't worry about stacking high current breakers.
Buy the biggest panel you can so you don't have to worry about individual breaker loads.

 

[Codyboy]

Who's on first?

Yes. That's right.
However I don't know's on third.
No idea what's on 2nd though.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Your post about "only neutrals/grounds" when we were talking about double tapping on the bar sounded to me like you were saying neutrals could have more than one under a single screw

but i didnt say GROUNDS. I said GROUNDED conductors. grounded conductors are neutrals by definition in the NEC. go back and read my comment #39. grounds are called GROUNDING conductors by definition in the NEC. very important key differences in the words here that most everyone missed.

Or maybe people got confused because they dont know the definitions but rlitman did try to point this out in comment #43

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes the / made me think either/or, both.

go back and read my comment #39. it doesnt say neutrals/grounds