Britool (Made in England) thread

[Dave455]

In reply to Mr Dave 455 , it’s quite Misleading when you look at the box in the photos I am putting up , but their is a 10000 volt tested marking on handles,like the Ahrems pliers.
here is part of my collection. The old pliers in picture have the elec marking on the head though not insulated . Regards A

That’s a decent collection you have, and I see it includes examples of all the handle types I mentioned! Perfect.

Yes, the terminology can be confusing, and they have changed some of the descriptions over the years too!

It looks to me as though you have a fair number of the insulated tools, in fairly late packaging too. I wonder if an Australian importer placed a sizeable order with Elliott Lucas for that style of tool?

Enjoy using them!

 

[Dave455]

Hi Dave,

This isn't correct.

Being immersed in research and catalogs naturally leads to adopting period correct terminology in forums, which can raise eyebrows, elicit questions, (and even accusations of affectation!) when discussing antique and vintage tools with those who are, er, um, let's just say, less immersed. Nothing causes it more commonly than using the historically correct terms for a "breaker bar", a term I have come to be cantankerous about for the implicit limitation in its utility, as you have alluded to (are they only used to break loose stuck nuts and bolts? are they never used to turn off non-rusty, well-maintained nuts and bolts that have been tightened to their correct torque reading? are they never used to turn nuts and bolts on? etc), but one that is now hopelessly synonymous with the tool on this side of the pond.

But, it wasn't always that way. And it definitely wasn't originally that way between 1919 and, oh, say 1965.

As a realist, I realized this was going to be a losing, uphill battle without some 'splaining. So I have posted a version of my 'Notes' on the subject before.

It's instructive to first reflect that the tool didn't appear at once, but evolved from fixed Offset Handles, and Tee Handles, which were not exclusively used to bust loose stuck nuts and bolts, and that most of the earliest and later vintage examples included cross-drilled holes for a cross-bar, for spinning.

In fact, Blackhawk called it a "Hinged Offset Handle". Bonney and Plomb called it a "Hinge Handle". Cornwell, New Britain, and Williams preferred "Flex Handle." Sears, Roebuck & Co (Craftsman) used a hybrid variation ("Flex T Handle"), as did Herbrand ("Flexible Offset Handle") and SK ("Flex Head Handle"). There were some notably unique oddballs: Duro preferred "Swing Head Handle", Snap-on liked "Nut Spinner Handle", and Thorsen got cute with "Linkjoint Handle."

As far as I have been able to determine, the term "Breaker Bar" wasn't used here in the US - and that colloquially, in shops, etc, until the late 1960's. The earliest I can find it turning up as a technical term in any automotive technical literature is 1971 and that was not a catalog but a hot rod magazine, lending credence to the theory that it came off the street.

The most modern catalogs I have for the mfgr's I cited above are from the late 1950's but spot checks into Bonney, Herbrand, and Snap-on catalogs in the 1960's do not include the term "Breaker Bar." Consequently, I am not exactly sure when the term was adopted by American industry. But, I think we could consider Snap-on a pretty good yardstick of terminology evolution, and we happen to have an excellent resource of Snap-on catalogs at collectingsnapon.com. The last time Snap-on referred to this tool as a "Nut Spinner" in a catalog was 1973. The first time Snap-on referred to it as a "Breaker Bar" in a catalog was 1975.

That’s very interesting.

The only reason I use the term “Breaker Bar” is that I’m posting on a website that has predominantly American readership, and it’s the term I generally hear Americans use to describe that tool. I’d never given any thought to how long term had been in use, but now we know - 46 years!

Unfortunately, while I can usually give all the details and history of British terminology, either from personal memory or just thinking of the terms my Grandfathers generation used, I can’t do that with regard to U.S. terms.

Britool described the tool as a “Swivel Handle” but the term “Flex Handle” was also common here. I can recall my Grandfather using both terms. “Breaker Bar” was unheard of.

 

[oldpliers1]

That’s a decent collection you have, and I see it includes examples of all the handle types I mentioned! Perfect.

Yes, the terminology can be confusing, and they have changed some of the descriptions over the years too!

It looks to me as though you have a fair number of the insulated tools, in fairly late packaging too. I wonder if an Australian importer placed a sizeable order with Elliott Lucas for that style of tool?

Enjoy using them!

Hi Dave I have a few more to post when I can find them the red handle dual insulated not dipped pliers . But the ones I seek are the white handles insulated very nice item .
Their are some on eBay but the blades are damaged.
They came through british tool importers , eclipse ,record , spears Jackson , marples , footprint ,Ding Dong .was all readily stocked and easy to find ,but died out in the 90s .
I started buying doubles as a boy in the late 70s which form part of my collection today . I could claim everything I bought on tax and get a nice return .and afford a flash motor on apprentice wages . Cheers

 

[aelsherbiny]

Hello Dave, Hello Members,

I came across this new socket set and I am wondering if you have some details about it, what is the fair price for it? And is it worth to buy even if I'm not coming to any non meteric applications?

Regards,
Ahmed

 

[Bob H]

Hello Dave, Hello Members,

I came across this new socket set and I am wondering if you have some details about it, what is the fair price for it? And is it worth to buy even if I'm not coming to any non meteric applications?

Regards,
Ahmed

That, in that condition, is a true thing of Beauty. I for one would love it, even though it has the later far less desirable plastic handles. Condition is all, and that looks perfect, even down to having the box. I would hazard a guess at £500 value, but it could be more, or a lot more. I’m sure you will get more replies from some of my more knowledgable colleagues on here.

 

[Bob H]

Britool catalogues

I'm hoping to put together some information here on Britool catalogues, they are a great resource for Britool information. I personally have catalogues 96, 104 and 109 and am in the process of scanning 104 and 109 in. Once I've done that, I will put PDF copies of all three up on dropbox for download by anyone interested. If anyone owns other Britool catalogues, why don't you scan those in too and we can share? It would also be nice to have a post here with pictures of all the front covers on, so I'll reserve the next post for that. Here is what I have put together so far:

View media item 104448
View media item 104449
[GALLERY=median for one would be fascinated to see, 104450][/GALLERY]

fanders

I

I've been following this thread with interest, and it has inspired me to renovate my socket box (painted blue by the previous owner). It's a 1/2 drive WW/AF set.
Has anybody commissioned any replica oval stickers for the lids? They always seem to be the things which disappear first!

there is a guy on eBay selling them, see my piccy.

 

[Dave455]

Hello Dave, Hello Members,

I came across this new socket set and I am wondering if you have some details about it, what is the fair price for it? And is it worth to buy even if I'm not coming to any non meteric applications?

Regards,
Ahmed

Wow! What a find!

Made between mid ‘70’s when they introduced the plastic handled accessories, and early 80’s when they changed the style of the extensions.

What’s it worth? Whatever somebody will pay for it! Here in the U.K. I would think probably £800. The sets with the metal handles are better (and better finished) so you have to factor that in.

If I was offered that for £500 I’d buy it instantly. You would have to pay more than £500 for a set of comparable quality, without the Whitworth sockets or all those accessories.

If somebody has said to make them an offer, I’d probably start with £500. That would be a good price for me, but I wouldn’t be stealing it either!

 

[aelsherbiny]

That, in that condition, is a true thing of Beauty. I for one would love it, even though it has the later far less desirable plastic handles. Condition is all, and that looks perfect, even down to having the box. I would hazard a guess at £500 value, but it could be more, or a lot more. I’m sure you will get more replies from some of my more knowledgable colleagues on here.

It is a gorgeous set!

There was also a decent Kingdick set from the same era with heavy well-made sockets that looks hard to find however the red Britool set looks very shinny and the overall unbelievable condition after four decades telling the story about the steel quality used by the manufacturer.

 

[aelsherbiny]

Wow! What a find!

Made between mid ‘70’s when they introduced the plastic handled accessories, and early 80’s when they changed the style of the extensions.

What’s it worth? Whatever somebody will pay for it! Here in the U.K. I would think probably £800. The sets with the metal handles are better (and better finished) so you have to factor that in.

If I was offered that for £500 I’d buy it instantly. You would have to pay more than £500 for a set of comparable quality, without the Whitworth sockets or all those accessories.

If somebody has said to make them an offer, I’d probably start with £500. That would be a good price for me, but I wouldn’t be stealing it either!

Thank you for the update!

I will keep it in mind while offering, maybe I should get both sets and list one on eBay.

 

[dutchgray]

The NOS sets would sell well on Ebay if you were to put them on there. Even the King **** set would be worth buying if it was cheap enough, they are good strong tools, just not as nice as Britool was.

 

[D350RDV]

That’s very interesting.

The only reason I use the term “Breaker Bar” is that I’m posting on a website that has predominantly American readership, and it’s the term I generally hear Americans use to describe that tool. I’d never given any thought to how long term had been in use, but now we know - 46 years!

Unfortunately, while I can usually give all the details and history of British terminology, either from personal memory or just thinking of the terms my Grandfathers generation used, I can’t do that with regard to U.S. terms.

Britool described the tool as a “Swivel Handle” but the term “Flex Handle” was also common here. I can recall my Grandfather using both terms. “Breaker Bar” was unheard of.

"Swingover bar" was a common description round these parts.

 

[oldpliers1]

"Swingover bar" was a common description round these parts.

The word breaker bar is not used here in the colonies,
yet looking at my old( Sidchrome a excellent Australian tool maker who made fine tools until 1997)set circa 1970 it clearly lists the breaker bar in the set . Sliding bar , I have heard it referred to . Always learning.

 

[fnlow]

The word breaker bar is not used here in the colonies,
yet looking at my old( Sidchrome a excellent Australian tool maker who made fine tools until 1997)set circa 1970 it clearly lists the breaker bar in the set . Sliding bar , I have heard it referred to . Always learning.

Sidchrome commonly referred to it as an 'adjustable offset handle' though their '70's era catalog'.

I would have thought a sliding bar would be akin to a sliding 'T' handle?

 

[oldpliers1]

Hi , well firstly your correct , secondly you would think that in Australia’s biggest electrical workshop that wound motors and built Hi voltage switchboards,they would of used the correct terminology, 40 years too late .ah well just supporting your comment I just opened up a tool box that’s been sitting closed for nearly 25 years and surprise surprise , it’s listed as you said . Regards A

 

[Bob H]

Has anyone a Britool Drill and Tap size chart ?
I have seen a few, mainly from the likes of Dormer, I presume they are all the same, and just “branded” for which ever company wanted to promote their products.

 

[Bob H]

Has anyone a Britool Drill and Tap size chart ?
I have seen a few, mainly from the likes of Dormer, I presume they are all the same, and just “branded” for which ever company wanted to promote their products.

This is the sort of thing I mean.

 

[Farmer J.]

This is the sort of thing I mean.

There's a chap in Aberdeen prints those, and sells them on eBay UK. Lots of different makes with various charts. Good quality, laminated too so can wipe the oily fingerprints off!

Security measure | eBay

www.ebay.co.uk

Like this:

 

[oldpliers1]

In reply to Mr Dave 455 , it’s quite Misleading when you look at the box in the photos I am putting up , but their is a 10000 volt tested marking on handles,like the Ahrems pliers.
here is part of my collection. The old pliers in picture have the elec marking on the head though not insulated . Regards A

Hi just found these at home today
bit different 7 inch , I have no idea of date , but the bag is not correct . Still a nice item though not perfect .regards

 

[noknurl]

Hi Everyone,
I was looking at the pictures of the ratchets on page 1 of this discussion,I have an E74 ratchet that has no knurling on the handle whatsoever.
Is this for using it as a breaker bar?
Any thoughts.

 

[Farmer J.]

Hi Everyone,
I was looking at the pictures of the ratchets on page 1 of this discussion,I have an E74 ratchet that has no knurling on the handle whatsoever.
Is this for using it as a breaker bar?
Any thoughts.

I reckon it originally had one of those plastic handles like the one in that set in post #644 above. I have seen another one like yours, the owner's dog had chewed and ate the plastic handle off it.

 

[noknurl]

Thanks Farmer J,
Never thought of that.

 

[humber2]

Hi Everyone,
I was looking at the pictures of the ratchets on page 1 of this discussion,I have an E74 ratchet that has no knurling on the handle whatsoever.
Is this for using it as a breaker bar?
Any thoughts.

The not uncommon result of using a pipe extension. Happens to all makes that add plastic grip handles.

 

[Richard3552]

Fanders mentioned that he had catelogues that he was going to scan and upload to dropbox for reference. Can anyone assist me in some of the old catelogues. Thanks Richard

 

[Richard3552]

Seeing the 466 universal set for sale , has made me route out some catalogues and price lists from a few years , so here goes...

October 1957; 127pounds no shillings no pence

May 1961 ; 127pounds no shillings no pence

October 1968 now set 466c; 163pounds 12shillings 6 pence

i wonder what the 6 pence was for !
the only p/s/p converter i could find was for 1965 so put in the 1968 price and the result was ;
£2882.78p in today's money !! and thats new !
did note that there is no pliers or screwdrivers in the set for sale
thought this might help
found a 1952 catalogue and the set is not in there

Hello,

Did your catelogues have price list for the 466 set please? Any chance you can scan copy if you do have it.

Thanks.

 

[GalaxyTramp]

Just discovered this forum, very informative. I am about to start the restoration of my original Britool toolbox that was purchased when I started my apprenticeship in the motor trade in the early 1970's.

I cannot find much info about this toolbox and seem to remember it was a special order from Brown Brothers at the time. If anyone can offer some background about it including a catalogue inclusion that would be great.

The paint is a smooth red colour and not a crackle or hammered finish. I will be looking to source something similar to paint it, has anybody found a source for this?

TIA

 

[Farmer J.]

Good evening 'Galaxy', and welcome to GJ. Nice old tool box you have, I recognise the design but unfortunately can't remember where I have seen it before, or anything about it..! . Hopefully someone will chime in and help with that.
If you want paint I have had very good experience using the Coach Enamel from Paintman, here's a web link:

Coach Enamel Red Archives

paintman.co.uk

He's been very helpful on the phone with advice for me. I think the colour you want is likely to be close to the Signal Red on that web page but he does also do a colour matching service.
The Paintman paint has lots of pigment in it, covers well, much better to use than that dreadful smooth Hammerite from Halfords. Also he will supply the appropriate primer and undercoat, as we all say, 'the key to a good finish is in the preparation underneath it'.
Please post pics for us as you do the repaint. J.

 

[Richard3552]

There is same cantalever style toolbox for sale on Market Place and one recently was for sale on eBay.

 

[Dave455]

Just discovered this forum, very informative. I am about to start the restoration of my original Britool toolbox that was purchased when I started my apprenticeship in the motor trade in the early 1970's.

I cannot find much info about this toolbox and seem to remember it was a special order from Brown Brothers at the time. If anyone can offer some background about it including a catalogue inclusion that would be great.

The paint is a smooth red colour and not a crackle or hammered finish. I will be looking to source something similar to paint it, has anybody found a source for this?

TIA

For many years, Britool offered “Mechanics” or “Engineers” tool kits (differing primarily in the type of spanners included). An extract from the 1974 catalogue is shown.

Unlike the smaller socket set boxes, and the bigger service set boxes, I have only seen these boxes in the plain red like yours. That may be because they are a relatively later item, and were introduced when Britool were moving towards simpler finishes, or alternatively, because they were domestically sourced.

The bigger tool chests were supplied by Langenau in Cleveland, U.S.A, and as I haven’t been able to identify any other supplier, I’m starting to suspect the socket set boxes were also. Original finishes included the classic dark red “crackle” (actually crackle black over a bright red), a short lived “hammered“ finish, and a brighter red “crinkle” finish. All are authentic, but not for your box!

The plain red you have is the easiest to duplicate. You could find a relatively undamaged bit, and match it with colour swatches at a body shop or paint supplier.

The original paint was almost certainly enamel, sprayed onto bare metal, and I would probably try to duplicate this if I could. The enamel recommended by Farmer J looks to be a good option, Replacement decals are available from www.isaydingdong.co.uk

 

[Tostal]

Here's some pics of the Britool mechanic's toolkits 1/2" square drive and cantilever toolbox from a James Neill Tools catalogue dated 3/'81.
The colour doesn't scan so well as the pics are printed on an off-white background.

I recall the shade of red used in the late 1970's. I'd agree with "Farmer J." that Signal Red is probably a close match but iirc it had almost a very slight pinkish hue, was a flattish finish rather than gloss and consequently tended to readily accumulate dirty fingerprints which were difficult to wipe clean. There's a very good pic of this finish in post #644 above.

Of course, the shade used in the early 1970's on "Galaxy Tramp"s toolbox in post # 665 might be different to that used in the late 1970's - so I'd suggest buffing a spot of the paint that was under the removed decals/stickers using T-cut/polishing compound or similar, to find the original shade, which hopefully was protected by the decals (if applied early-on in the life of the toolbox).

~Tostal

 

[Mintgrun]

Thank you for posting that catalog page. I've got a B556 and was wondering who'd made it. Mystery solved. Mine may be older than that catalog. (?) There's no sign of black paint and the lid flaps are missing the little bends at the ends. The red is rather orange on this one. Sorry for the crappy photo.


Tom

 

[Richard3552]

BRITOOL. Vintage Screwdrivers,1- 6" 5/16" Flat. 1-4" Phillips. Pt.2. see photos | eBay

1- 6" 5/16" Flat.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Richard3552]

Just pushed the price from £62 up to £110.. what was I thinking? Good luck to whoever bid that high? Puts the purchase of the Universal Service set in perspective.

 

[Farmer J.]

Just pushed the price from £62 up to £110.. what was I thinking? Good luck to whoever bid that high? Puts the purchase of the Universal Service set in perspective.

That's a awful lot of money for a couple of old screwdrivers! About £5 per screwdriver and £50 each for the name on the handles?
I have a set of Steadfast ones which I got new, they look exactly the same and I believe they were the supplier to Britool?

 

[Richard3552]

That's a awful lot of money for a couple of old screwdrivers! About £5 per screwdriver and £50 each for the name on the handles?
I have a set of Steadfast ones which I got new, they look exactly the same and I believe they were the supplier to Britool?

I agree, I guess like whoever won the auction must need these to make up a set. Price to pay for originality and completeness. Whilst they would help complete my set I'm happier to bide my time.

 

[Graeme]

I have some britool tools. I have various metric, a/f and whitworth 1/2 sockets and various a/f spanners.
This is some of the more interesting stuff though.
I have 2 EB687 sockets, presumably from different eras, the one on the left being older. But nice not seen that kind of knurling before. It's not even really knurling.

 

[Graeme]

Some of my af ring spanners also have the size in decimal. Was this usual at a certain time period?


I also have this teeny spanner

 

[Graeme]

I have this little BA spanner. Other side is plain. Quality seems somewhat Christmas cracker!

 

[Graeme]

And lastly for the pics (the rest of my britool stuff is pretty common)

I have this set.
Is it the midget set?

 

[Graeme]

Is the 2ba socket ment to be in it?

The box seems to have always been grey, but the lid looks black under the grey.

 

[Graeme]

I assume it should have had an mh324.
These are ba size sockets right, but why do they only have the part number and it the size on them?
The 2ba stamped replacement is also cracked. If anyone in the uk has a mh324 (assuming that's what it should be), and fancies helping me complete this set again, let me know!
I assume nothing else is missing?