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Broach Depth on Deep Sockets

nanofrog

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I'm wondering how common it is for the broach depth on deep sockets to be very shallow, as in ~1/2" or so? And is this cost cutting, or for a different reason all together?

I ask, as I prefer the bolt/nut to back up into the socket when in tight quarters.

If anyone can help ID what socket makes go say ~3/4 of the way down in a deep socket, it would truly be appreciated.

Thanks. :)
 
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pipsters

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Craftsman does so Armstrong would too. IIRC SK does a short broach, which I think would be better for strength.
 

Skin

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The Craftsman broach depth on deep sockets is all over the place. For the most part it stops about 3/4 of the way down the socket but i have some others that stop half way. The last Craftsman sockets that had no stops were the VV date codes.

Its done intentionally so that a deep socket can be used to re-install a bolt or nut where otherwise if it dropped to the back of the socket the threaded portion wouldnt be long enough. The additional depth is meant to accommodate a longer stud that a bolt might be threaded on.
 

pipsters

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I agree, to me it's a sign of a higher quality design to do a short broach.
 

cgv69

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I agree, to me it's a sign of a higher quality design to do a short broach.

Maybe? I can tell you this.. Snap-on, MAC and SK all have short breech depths. Craftsman\Armstrong and Wright all seem to broach deeper. Interesting data but I don't know that you can make any meaningful conclusions from it?
 

pipsters

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Maybe? I can tell you this.. Snap-on, MAC and SK all have short breech depths. Craftsman\Armstrong and Wright all seem to broach deeper. Interesting data but I don't know that you can make any meaningful conclusions from it?

Possibly not, just seems like the higher end products are more apt to have short broaches.
 

cmandp

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I agree, to me it's a sign of a higher quality design to do a short broach.
I tend to think the opposite. Broaching to a deeper depth is going to be more difficult and you have to make up for the loss of material with higher quality steel. Other than that it's personal preference.

All I know is that I have a few old Craftsman metric deeps and they are broached all the way to the square broach for the drive.
 

pipsters

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I tend to think the opposite. Broaching to a deeper depth is going to be more difficult and you have to make up for the loss of material with higher quality steel. Other than that it's personal preference.

All I know is that I have a few old Craftsman metric deeps and they are broached all the way to the square broach for the drive.

You assume the sockets can handle the same amount of torque...
 
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otis66

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The short brouching makes for a stronger socket but somtimes a socket brouched to the end of the socket comes in handy. My Craftsman sockets are broached all the way down the socket. I believe Armstrong sockets are brouched all the way down too.
 

Steevo

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I have an old set of Snap-On 1/4" deep metrics that frustrate the hell out of me because they are broached for about 3/8" or less, and then the hole in the center is so small it won't fit over any socket tray post, and the drive end on half of them doesn't have any through-hole at all.
 
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autoace

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I worked for Cornwell, also short broach depth, why? drum roll, so you can start a nut on a stud, or start a bolt without the nut or bolt sliding down the socket.........:lol: That is all.................In tight quarters sometimes a broached all the way down socket is helpful it gives more clearance as the nut /bolt is removed.....pluses to each......
 
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nanofrog

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I had a similar thread a while back. It might help.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129245
It does. Thanks. :)

The ability to hold a nut/bolt does make a lot of sense, but I run into issues with the ratchet being backed into something more of an issue (usually a shallow socket + very short extension works for me to get the threads started <no ratchet helps>).

I guess that's what I get for buying 4cyl FWD and AWD cars. :p

The idea mentioned of using a rubber hose tucked inside a deep broached socket is a good idea IMHO. Reminds me of older style spark plug sockets, just using the rubber for a different purpose.

A listing of both shallow and deep broaches would be very nice if one could be compiled, as both would have their place.

Craftsman - Oddly enough I think broaches their sockets all the way or close to it.
Varied from what I saw a few weeks ago, particularly in the 1/4" DR. Very shallow broach on the deeps, particularly the smaller sizes.

Recently found some of my dad's old stuff (mix of Proto, SK, Snap-on, Williams, Wright, and even a BSW Brittool), and some of the deep 1/2"DR was broached very shallow (Proto in particular).

I tend to think the opposite. Broaching to a deeper depth is going to be more difficult and you have to make up for the loss of material with higher quality steel. Other than that it's personal preference.
My background would indicate that it's more expensive, even if the rest of the processing doesn't change, as it takes more time, and incurs additional wear per unit.

That said, although either might meet standards, they may not be equal in strength as others have already mentioned (i.e. deep vs. shallow from the same manufacturer with similar date codes <just in case they made changes to the metal between years>).

But I've never broken any of the older 3/8DR Craftsman's I own, so I'm not all that worried about being strong enough to break one either way. Might be possible if I use a cheater bar, but I try not to do this (have a couple of times when nothing else would break it free). Only thing I ever broke were my fingers.
 

PT Doc

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My 300+ cm socket set had very shallow broaching on some deep socket. I can't say that I looked for a pattern on ratchet size on socket width but it was quite weird.
 
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nanofrog

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Just got a Williams 1/4" DR Deep metric set (NOS USA), and they're shallow broached FWIW.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board...
 

Achilleus

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Tekton indicates they specifically make deep broaches. For the 1/2" drive 10mm it is 1-inch deep hex. Here's from their catalogue:
 

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Achilleus

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Yes I noticed that after I posted :) But yeah these topics become useful to many other people over the years. And the Tekton is particularly deep in this respect (snapon is the opposite). I'm using it to hold a snap-on hex bit and testing the failure torques for a range of socket brands. Will post up here when the study is complete.
 
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