Broken Wilton

[G-ManBart]

Rather than clutter of the vises thread, I thought I'd start one just to discuss this failure mode.

Some folks have said it was caused by a big hammer, not likely, and you'll see why shortly.

If a hammer struck down on something in the vise, it would have put pressure on the bottom of the slide, and the static jaw would have failed right were we always see them fail...directly under the slide, and usually framing the slide almost perfectly.

To split the top and bottom half of the body of the vise with a hammer strike from above (normal downward motion) the top of the body of the vise would have to be anchored to something above it to resist the downward load, and cause it to fail. I don't see a chain welded to it going up to the ceiling, so that theory is out.

You could split the body of the vise in half with an upward strike that hit the bottom of the dynamic jaw, but there's an even chance the dynamic jaw would break off the slide before it would split the body of the vise. Not many folks swing big hammers upwards that high...good way to hit yourself, or worse.

Then again, let's think about how a normal vise works. You turn the handle and it moves the dynamic jaw towards the static jaw, loading it the more you turn the handle.

The static jaw is above, and forward of the body of the vise on this Wilton. When you put a rearward load on the static jaw, it also puts an upward load on it because of the offset (it's a lever or arm if you're into terms). The base of the vise can't move, because it's secured to the bench.

Now add that you're also pulling the back of the body of the vise towards the front of the vise as you turn the screw. The body of the vise is being compressed from front to back, and the static jaw is being pushed upwards at the same time.

At some point, the body splits when that upward load, compounded by the compression from front to rear gets too high.

That's what caused this vise to fail. Also, the owner told me he was seating a bearing with the vise when it failed (static jaw damage happened prior to the failure) and he has no reason to lie about it.

Go ahead....argue away, I'm done :thumb:

 

[ALLFAST]

Bart,

Now that is some serious damage !

Shawn

 

[dkroth]

Can you pull the pieces apart and give us a good, quality close up photo of the fractures? Preferably near the front of the failure?

 

[Thezapper]

My condolences. I agree with your hypothesis btw.... So is it going in the scrap pile? Or you gonna try to weld it

 

[disston]

epoxy

 

[Richard Cranium]

That is a real strange area for a fracture

 

[Richard Cranium]

you need to send that picture to drivesitfar.

 

[LXCam]

I think the butler did it in the pantry with a broomstick. That's my theory and iiiiii'm sticking to it.

 

[LXCam]

But I'd lay odds that someone had the jaws spread pretty far apart and was trying to bend or beat an angle on a chunk of bar using the live jaw as the folcrum and the static jaw as the stop, then pulling or beating downwards on the end.

 

[bczygan]

I also think quite a bit of hammering was done on the anvil portion, which may have started a crack which then was completed with regular use.

If not repaired, save the usable parts for other vises.

Bill

 

[Corndoggeh]

JB weld that and you're good to go!

 

[taumac]

I've broken a vise before like this. I was using it as a press with a cheater bar on the handle. It was a vise like this.



It cracked from dynamic jaw support to about the S in Craftsman.

 

[1982fxr]

Interesting. I think my first thought would have been to check the bottom of the dynamic jaw for evidence of being dropped.

 

[Rory Bellows]

I'd weld it up with nickel rod and have a new beat on vise that I don't care about. My current garage beat on vise is a C2 but I don't beat on it. I do have weld splatter on it though.

 

[blsnelling]

Does this failure demonstrate one way that a Tradesman is not as strong as a Machinist?

 

[blsnelling]

I'd weld it up with nickel rod and have a new beat on vise that I don't care about.

I think closing that gap up 100% to get any kind of close tolerance back is going to be the difficult part.

 

[LXCam]

Does this failure demonstrate one way that a Tradesman is not as strong as a Machinist?

And just how in the hell do you come to that conclusion.

 

[flushcut]

Don't repair it let it die with dignity. It had a good long hard use life by the looks of it. She gave up the ghost fighting the good fight so do what's right and honor her with a new replacement. RIP Wilton Vise you sacrifice will not be forgotten.

 

[Corndoggeh]

Don't repair it let it die with dignity. It had a good long hard use life by the looks of it. She gave up the ghost fighting the good fight so do what's right and honor her with a new replacement. RIP Wilton Vise you sacrifice will not be forgotten.

Why? I would weld that right up and keep it going, if it breaks again THEN I would probably send it to the graveyard.

 

[flushcut]

Partly because I want Wilton to get the business so they can stick around and not go **** up like so many other awesome tool makers that make bad *** products that never wear out.

 

[davewo]

My guess is the jaws were spread too far apart and gripping way too tight. I could try to replicate this failure with my C3 if anyone is interested.

 

[blsnelling]

And just how in the hell do you come to that conclusion.

Does the Machinist vise not have a heavier casting, not squared off, thereby thinning it and reducing it's strength?

 

[oldldh]

It's time for my picture of the differences between the Tradesman and the Machinist vises...

Mostly size and weight...

And my two cutaways of the old, and a newer Machinist's vise...

Everybody gets all hot and bothered over Wilton's, but I like my Starrett 925 better...

 

[sonoronos]

Does this failure demonstrate one way that a Tradesman is not as strong as a Machinist?

I think it just demonstrates that a monkey can destroy any vise if they try hard enough.

My C1's are tough but I treat them with kid gloves, like everything I own.

I bet I could destroy them if I wanted to. Nothing is indestructible.

Don't worry, your Machinist vises are fine. So is a Tradesman. We should all stop worrying about whether or not we made the right decision buying something, and actually build things.

 

[rlitman]

I think closing that gap up 100% to get any kind of close tolerance back is going to be the difficult part.

Why? Just put it in a bigger vise.

 

[meatsis]

I don't understand what all the fuss is about here. Am I the only one who see's broken wiltons all the time. I think everybody expects them to be tough because they cost an absurd amount of money. Yes they feel nice when using them, but in reality they are not nearly as strong as a real vise like Reed, Starrett, Rock island, Parker etc etc etc. just to name a few. like sonoronos said, any vise can be destroyed if not used properly, including the ones I just mentioned.

 

[sonoronos]

Yes they feel nice when using them, but in reality they are not nearly as strong as a real vise like Reed, Starrett, Rock island, Parker etc etc etc. just to name a few. like sonoronos said, any vise can be destroyed if not used properly, including the ones I just mentioned.

I just repaired a Rock Island that was broken, so I wouldn't say they are any more "real" than a Wilton.

Reeds break, Athols break. Parkers definitely break.

I think it's the "this vise is better than that vise" attitude that is causing all these lame posts about vises.

Gman made this thread because he's trying to show that using your vise as a press is a bad idea.

 

[rlitman]

...Gman made this thread because he's trying to show that using your vise as a press is a bad idea.

Exactly. The more you slide out the dynamic jaw, the more likely it is to experience this sort of failure. And once the crack starts, it just unzips the whole side.

As pointed out above, using the failure of one Wilton vise (not a top of the line model either) to bash all Wilton products as opposed to competitors is senseless.

 

[meatsis]

You wilton fans really take this personal huh? Did either one of you read my post? I clearly said that ANY vise can break if not used properly. Including the ones I mentioned. It has nothing to do with "this vise is better than that vise" BS.

And I'm not using the failure of this ONE wilton vise to bash their products. Im not bashing them at all. Like I mentioned in my post, theyre not bad vises, but I personally see broken wiltons ALL THE TIME. Tradesman models and the machinist bullet vises.

 

[blsnelling]

Looks like I struck a nerve that I didn't intend to strike. I simply noticed that the side of the Tradesman is flat, thereby thinner, and wondered if a Machinist would not have failed in this same scenario. I'm not at all concerned about my vise purchase.

 

[My Old Tools]

Buy an arbor press for that kind of work. I vise is for work holding, not pressing. Most of the machinist vises I have seen broken break above the barrel.

 

[Scout3918]

I agree on both.

and def save for parts for someone.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Looks like the static jaw was pre Bubbarized with side blows from a six pound maul.

Honestly, I split a gut when looking at that vise... It is a true conversation piece.

 

[franzdom]

It'll buff right out.

 

[rlitman]

It'll buff right out.

Sure. A little bondo, a little paint, and it'll be ready for CraigsList!

 

[Al Borland]

Umm...
Duct tape?????

 

[autopts]

Rather than clutter of the vises thread, I thought I'd start one just to discuss this failure mode.

Some folks have said it was caused by a big hammer, not likely, and you'll see why shortly.

If a hammer struck down on something in the vise, it would have put pressure on the bottom of the slide, and the static jaw would have failed right were we always see them fail...directly under the slide, and usually framing the slide almost perfectly.

To split the top and bottom half of the body of the vise with a hammer strike from above (normal downward motion) the top of the body of the vise would have to be anchored to something above it to resist the downward load, and cause it to fail. I don't see a chain welded to it going up to the ceiling, so that theory is out.

You could split the body of the vise in half with an upward strike that hit the bottom of the dynamic jaw, but there's an even chance the dynamic jaw would break off the slide before it would split the body of the vise. Not many folks swing big hammers upwards that high...good way to hit yourself, or worse.

Then again, let's think about how a normal vise works. You turn the handle and it moves the dynamic jaw towards the static jaw, loading it the more you turn the handle.

The static jaw is above, and forward of the body of the vise on this Wilton. When you put a rearward load on the static jaw, it also puts an upward load on it because of the offset (it's a lever or arm if you're into terms). The base of the vise can't move, because it's secured to the bench.

Now add that you're also pulling the back of the body of the vise towards the front of the vise as you turn the screw. The body of the vise is being compressed from front to back, and the static jaw is being pushed upwards at the same time.

At some point, the body splits when that upward load, compounded by the compression from front to rear gets too high.

That's what caused this vise to fail. Also, the owner told me he was seating a bearing with the vise when it failed (static jaw damage happened prior to the failure) and he has no reason to lie about it.

Go ahead....argue away, I'm done :thumb:

I have a 1740 body, but not the Dynamic if you want it. That could have been one of the most poorly casted vises ever. Early China 30,000 psi.

 

[G-ManBart]

you need to send that picture to drivesitfar.

Why?

 

[G-ManBart]

But I'd lay odds that someone had the jaws spread pretty far apart and was trying to bend or beat an angle on a chunk of bar using the live jaw as the folcrum and the static jaw as the stop, then pulling or beating downwards on the end.

As I said in the original post, the owner said he was seating a bearing when it failed.

 

[G-ManBart]

You wilton fans really take this personal huh? Did either one of you read my post? I clearly said that ANY vise can break if not used properly. Including the ones I mentioned. It has nothing to do with "this vise is better than that vise" BS.

And I'm not using the failure of this ONE wilton vise to bash their products. Im not bashing them at all. Like I mentioned in my post, theyre not bad vises, but I personally see broken wiltons ALL THE TIME. Tradesman models and the machinist bullet vises.

Your comments are why I said I knew this would turn into an argument.

You went out of your way to say other brands made "real vises" as opposed to Wilton, which is obviously going to upset a number of folks.

BTW, you mean "real vises" made by companies that made such a great product they no longer exist?

You're also comparing companies that, for the most part, haven't produced a new vise in 50+ years to a company who has made them continuously all along and think you're not going to see more of the latter broken?

Just to be clear, I don't really collect vises. I have a handful of personal vises and most of them are made by other companies than Wilton, so I don't care one way or the other.

I have yet to see a perfect vise. ALL of them have strengths/weaknesses or design superiority/inferiority compared to one another, but none are better in every single way to any other.

I can't imagine anybody using any brand quality vise in a responsible manner and still breaking it, but people are often ignorant of what a vise is really intended for, so we see them broken.