Buddy system gone wrong $$$

[wit2003]

I agree with what most everyone is saying....a good friend will help you as payment for all the help you've given them.

I know for a fact that I owe tons of man hours to a few friends for all the help they have given me at my old house doing some remodeling. We don't keep track of hours, but rather just trade project for project. I always make sure to have plenty of food and beer around as do they when im helping.

My guess is that the GF/wife has gotten into his head and now he's second guessing himself....id say talk to him, agree on a payment amount, and then call it a day. If he ever needs help from you on his car let him know what your hourly rate is and let it go from there.

I don't work on cars for free, but i rarely take cash as a payment either. Buy me food, come turn the wrench while i point out what to do and drink beer, or buy my a tool that i need and we'll call it even.

 

[Toolman12]

I can't believe nobody has said it yet BRO'S BEFORE HOE'S !!!!!

 

[Al Bundy]

I'll bet money is tight with the carpenter guy and the woman is telling him that if he's working, he should be earning money. Funny how they think.

This is a great answer. He may really be your friend, but he may just need the money. For some people it may be too embarrassing to admit that they just can't afford to help you for nothing. At least give him the benefit of the doubt. Call him and talk to him.

 

[JPorkins]

When I helped build my sister's and brother-in-laws house I chalked it up to helping family. Years later my brother-in-laws brother was building his house (3,000 sq ft, two story) around the corner. For two years, at least every other weekend I would help him for 5 to 6 hours on the house Saturday and Sunday. I have no idea how many hours I helped him, but it was a bunch. He is a general contractor and I learned from doing with this place. He knew I was going to build a shop and wanted some help here and there. He spent about 8 to 10 hours helping me and that is all i needed. Later I had him do some work on my house that I didn't have the time to do and he had two of his guys helping as well. I wanted to pay him and he would only take a couple hundred dollars. Three guys, 2 days is real cheap. I feel good about helping him out, I learned enough to build my 30' x 40' shop and I know I'm on the good side, meaning I helped more than he did in the number of hours. I also have worked on there three computers and have asked for nothing. It is all about Karma, is it not? Good friends are hard to find, give him a call.

Go over to his house and talk to him & his GF to figure out what the deal is and how to all get along.

On a sidenote, ******* be crazy.

 

[flip4eva83]

Go over to his house and talk to him & his GF to figure out what the deal is and how to all get along.

On a sidenote, ******* be crazy.

******* do indeed be crazy.

 

[TRC51]

You thought he was your buddy. He wasn't, he was just using you to get his car worked on for free.

Some people are like that. They are called users.

This is the case.

I had...well... I guess I still have a friend who I have helped move in and out of apartments multiple times for free (a lot of work) I asked once if I could borrow the trailer he has to move a car.... he gave me a rental rate for it. I didn't bother even discussing it with him further. As Imcrazy says, there are certain people out there who live and die by the dollar. Your buddy is one of them. You don't have to stop being friends... you just have remember what your relationship/friendship is all about. If you can accept it... you should be all set. Personally I would move on and never look back.

 

[TRC51]

******* do indeed be crazy.

Can I get an Amen?!

 

[cdods]

I can't believe nobody has said it yet BRO'S BEFORE HOE'S !!!!![/QUOTE

I guess I'm not a real man or something - but my wife and kids come before friends.

It's pretty easy to spend all your time with your buddies (with best intentions of helping them) and leave those that matter most hanging.

Now the way your friend has handled things by not giving you call and explaining the problem (money/time) isn't great, but the fact that you aren't his top priority doesn't mean he's a jerk - maybe he just doesn't know how to tell you his wife matters more than you.

I do trade off stuff with friends, but I've also had to backout of commitments (or at least postpone things) because of family, and real friends understand that.

 

[LutzTD]

if you are stressing over money with a friend, then he is no real friend, he is simply an aquaintance. My friends would have said, hey your building a shop, great I can do this. If it was the other way I would have said hey your building a shop, I can do this.. dont blame the wife, the gf or whatever. most likely hes using her as his bad guy in the ole good guy/bad guy routine. If you like his work, then pay him, if not pay someone else who you like their work. If your paying then theres no comprimising the work at all. If you are a nice guy and you like doing it, then you can still work on his stuff, the difference is that now you say, Im busy bring it next week, do it on your time and under your conditions rather than as a friend would and go out of the way. Soon either he will get it or he wont and then you will have your relationship fully defined.

 

[RKA]

In addition to what's already been said (and I agree, this somehow stems from his family), do NOT confront the wife. It's none of your business. If you really want to work it out, talk to your friend and ask him what he needs so this doesn't become an issue between you, but honestly, I would advise accepting any favors or help from him going forward. Things are simpler that way.

I know someone that is less than honest with his wife about these things. While he would enjoy time away from the house to work on projects and what not, it raises too many questions, so he hints at the possibility of earning a few bucks by helping friends out (and they need the cash). Of course, when he does earn money for doing side work, the amount earned comes into question. In some cases it's probably not enough to justify time away from the house, in other cases he's probably squirelled away a few bucks for himself. For my own part, while I could use this friend's expertise and help from time to time, I don't ask for it. It comes with too much baggage. I'd much rather pay someone if I'm in over my head, no matter the cost. No favors or money changes hands between us because I don't want any part of that drama. In any event, my point is, whatever is going on, you don't know and don't want to get in the middle. Do what you have to to keep things civilized between you.

 

[hh76]

I agree with everyone that good friends help each other out, but you've got to remember that we don't all have tons of free time.

When you decided to build a shop, I'm sure you set aside plenty of your time in order to get it done. You can't expect your friends to do the same for too long.

I'll free up a weekend, and maybe a couple evenings for a friend, but I can't afford to put my life on hold for too long. Maybe his personal life (house, yard work, family time, etc.) just got backed up to the point where he needed to get some things done.

Biggest shame is that you guys don't communicate well enough to really know.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

My good helpful buddy and I took the cars out for a cruise last night. Afterwords we assessed the situation at the shop and came up with a game plan. Next week, it the roof will be completed and shingled. Helpful buddy had gotten on carpenter buddy's case about the whole situation, carpenter buddy is mad because with all the help I, (other good friends were glad to lend a hand) I had my shop up for less than 2 hundred in labor. So I will pay him, and be done with it. This is what I got out of it, for some reason he's got it in his head that I will have a 40 to 50k shop that he helped make happen. Almost like I took him for that amount. So I will pay him. The whole racing buddy thing is going to have to change I guess. I doubt he will ask for my expertise, and thus getting things done on his car will probably not happen. Trust me, a few years ago this would not have even been an issue. Tonight I will pay him off and let him know what the deal is, also my shop policy has changed to, fair rate for work done will be charged. It's sad that it comes to dollars, and keeping track. I do not keep track of all the work I have done, I'd be scared to know, but now I guess I will have to.

 

[Jinks]

Well I just got off the phone with my other buddy, the one who has helped me out without any questions asked. I guess him and carpenter buddy had a phone conversation about this today. It does come down to $$$. As I had to pay another guy to help with the rafters, we needed another ninja that knew what he was doing. This other guy was no one I have met before, not a friend, nor have I helped him. I think I have made up my mind to pay carpenter buddy off, and if he wants work done on his cars, he will have to pay me to do it, if that is how he wants to work stuff out. Except I know he does not have the money to pay someone to help him, or pay me to help him. That was never the point in the past, we did it because we were a team, and we helped each other out. I just feel as if I am in a pickle where there is no good solution.

You've reached the solution. I've had "friends" like that before, & believe me, you're better off without 'em. If you spend any time or money attempting to salvage the non-existing friendship you'll just encourage more of the same. No need to be hostile or angry, just be social in group situations & forget about calling or spending time with him one on one. He'll drift away & go on to lose more friends.

 

[LutzTD]

My good helpful buddy and I took the cars out for a cruise last night. Afterwords we assessed the situation at the shop and came up with a game plan. Next week, it the roof will be completed and shingled. Helpful buddy had gotten on carpenter buddy's case about the whole situation, carpenter buddy is mad because with all the help I, (other good friends were glad to lend a hand) I had my shop up for less than 2 hundred in labor. So I will pay him, and be done with it. This is what I got out of it, for some reason he's got it in his head that I will have a 40 to 50k shop that he helped make happen. Almost like I took him for that amount. So I will pay him. The whole racing buddy thing is going to have to change I guess. I doubt he will ask for my expertise, and thus getting things done on his car will probably not happen. Trust me, a few years ago this would not have even been an issue. Tonight I will pay him off and let him know what the deal is, also my shop policy has changed to, fair rate for work done will be charged. It's sad that it comes to dollars, and keeping track. I do not keep track of all the work I have done, I'd be scared to know, but now I guess I will have to.

his loss, be glad you found out his true colors for so cheap......

 

[Ryan87LX]

On the other side of the "buddy system" - A co-worker offered to help me build a patio that I was trying to get done. We spent a good month working on this after work and on weekends. There was a LOT of bull work. He has never mentioned money whatsoever. I am going to give him a thank you card with money in it. Is that wrong? What if he won't accept it?

I wouldn't put money in the card. Money is weird - the guy might have been totally happy helping you, but if you put $100 in the card he'll be like "Really, $100 for all that?" If money was never discussed, don't bring it into the situation. Feel free to give him a gift though - a bottle of GOOD booze, invite him over for a big extravagant party on the patio, etc. But I'd avoid any cash.

 

[bdamico]

Sounds like someone needs Bro Search

http://www.break.com/index/bro-search.html

http://www.break.com/surfacevideo/bro-search

 

[Chris Stapley]

This is a perfect example of a buddy versus a friend right here...

 

[Toolman12]

I can't believe nobody has said it yet BRO'S BEFORE HOE'S !!!!![/QUOTE

I guess I'm not a real man or something - but my wife and kids come before friends.

It's pretty easy to spend all your time with your buddies (with best intentions of helping them) and leave those that matter most hanging.

Now the way your friend has handled things by not giving you call and explaining the problem (money/time) isn't great, but the fact that you aren't his top priority doesn't mean he's a jerk - maybe he just doesn't know how to tell you his wife matters more than you.

I do trade off stuff with friends, but I've also had to backout of commitments (or at least postpone things) because of family, and real friends understand that.

cdods I was just commenting on the fact that no one had that yet i would have thought that statement would have been in the first few comments
I agree with you in saying that family first and always. I have never left any family member hanging and all of my family except my wife and son live more than 1500 miles away and have come to the rescue many times. I was just stating that nobody had said it yet.

 

[jimindm]

This is a great thread. How do you treat freinds? Myself, close family is first. The same is true for my freinds, I value their time with their family. When I first read this, I asked myself, what makes me a good freind of some one?

Most of my freinds look at it this way, what you are good at, is easy to do. Can I put a window in? Yes. But can my freind do it faster and make it look better? Yes. Does he want to work on his car? He can, but chooses not to. It comes down to what he sees as a challenge, I see as gravy, and vise versa.

I would say that I have a few freinds and many people that I know. Its easy to do favors for others, but you have to let them know that you will need help one day and you will call.

A older man that I worked for many years ago, always told me. You charge for what you do for a living and what you are good at. Anything beyond that is goodwill. If you are a plumber, you charge to plumb, but moving the living room furniture of your neighbor out to the garage so they can paint, is your call.

True freinds do not expect something, for nothing. The OP mentions an exhaust system for his freinds car. Maybe you should have bought it, and had it laying out when the guy showed up one day. You could have told him that it fit his car and it was the first work that would by done in the shop when done.

 

[Primered Thunder]

**** him. Let his new crazy-*** wife work on his broke down **** next time they need it.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

True freinds do not expect something, for nothing. The OP mentions an exhaust system for his freinds car. Maybe you should have bought it, and had it laying out when the guy showed up one day. You could have told him that it fit his car and it was the first work that would by done in the shop when done.

I also did mention that I asked him what he wanted for his help, and he said not to worry about it because I have helped him. I asked because wanted to know what would be fair to him, because I wanted to avoid a situation like this. If he would have said no, I am too busy or doesn't have the time, or needs to get paid I would have been fine with it, and he knows that. I would have paid hime, or If he was too busy I would have just found another way to accomplish the task.

 

[LutzTD]

This is a great thread. How do you treat freinds? Myself, close family is first. The same is true for my freinds, I value their time with their family. When I first read this, I asked myself, what makes me a good freind of some one?

Most of my freinds look at it this way, what you are good at, is easy to do. Can I put a window in? Yes. But can my freind do it faster and make it look better? Yes. Does he want to work on his car? He can, but chooses not to. It comes down to what he sees as a challenge, I see as gravy, and vise versa.

I would say that I have a few freinds and many people that I know. Its easy to do favors for others, but you have to let them know that you will need help one day and you will call.

A older man that I worked for many years ago, always told me. You charge for what you do for a living and what you are good at. Anything beyond that is goodwill. If you are a plumber, you charge to plumb, but moving the living room furniture of your neighbor out to the garage so they can paint, is your call.

True freinds do not expect something, for nothing. The OP mentions an exhaust system for his freinds car. Maybe you should have bought it, and had it laying out when the guy showed up one day. You could have told him that it fit his car and it was the first work that would by done in the shop when done.

I have a bricklayer friend in Ohio who put up my 24x26 garage, would not accept a dime labor. I also had a carpenter friend who put up the trusses and roof. My brother shingeled it ( I paid him). I have rebuilt several engines for the bricklayer and the carpenter, I even bailed him out of jail once. I was pulling a guy out of the woods once and got stuck too bad to get back out, I had a business trip the next day and my truck was in a river bed. I called two other friends and they went there, with me gone out of town, and pulled my truck out of the river. I dont have any friends who ask for pay for a favor, none, as was siad before, the guy will move on and in the future he will continue to lose his "friends" because he doesnt really know what that means. My buddy in Ohio is very sad he cant come down and lay the blocks on my new garage, hes getting lots of updates, but really wants to be here.

 

[cgall]

I wouldn't call him or visit him or offer him anything. The ball is in his court, you should be patient and wait for him to make the next move. Your good buddy is talking to carpenter buddy, too.

On another note, I will never pay friends or relatives to do any kind of trade work. I want someone that I can negotiate with or, if need be, fire.

 

[diggler306]

This is a great thread. How do you treat freinds?
A older man that I worked for many years ago, always told me. You charge for what you do for a living and what you are good at. Anything beyond that is goodwill. If you are a plumber, you charge to plumb, but moving the living room furniture of your neighbor out to the garage so they can paint, is your call.

First off, great thread. Happy to see a general sense that you do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Secondly, I disagree with this cynical old man. If you have a God given talent, you use it in two ways: to earn a living, and to help family and "TRUE" friends without the need for reciprocity. It's a good idea for acquaintances and friends-of-friends to pay for your services. It's usually those situations that will piss you off if you're doing it for free and something goes awry.

Thirdly, my wife and I are fairly particular people, so there are often times that we actually turn down the buddy system because we'd rather not lose a friend over small things. You should never pay someone that you're not willing to lose as a friend. Money is evil and with it comes expectations.

The only way you should ever pay a true friend is through food and liquid beverages, as a thank you after all is said and done!!!

 

[brownbagg]

What are you on this forum for?

Apparently you don't work on your cars, you must pay someone to do it, and apparently you don't have anything to do with improving the garage, I would guess you pay for that too.

Charles

i work on my cars but nobody else, I learned the hard way, friend want you to work on their junk free but never offer help you, or get in such a hurry cutting corners you have to redo their work. they just want to stand around and drink your beer and bs. when they show up in 200 dollar tennis shoe and shorts for a concrete pour, they never planned on helping

 

[willymakeit]

Friends can be hard work. I only need a few friends, the rest are aquaintances.My true friends I help without expecting anything in return, its done because I want to help.

 

[spclk]

i work on my cars but nobody else, I learned the hard way, friend want you to work on their junk free but never offer help you, or get in such a hurry cutting corners you have to redo their work. they just want to stand around and drink your beer and bs. when they show up in 200 dollar tennis shoe and shorts for a concrete pour, they never planned on helping

As stated before, those aren't friends, they're users.

 

[skyking]

**** him. Let his new crazy-*** wife work on his broke down **** next time they need it.

Your such a softie !!! LOL

 

[happy]

Doing business with friends and family never works right unless you are willing to forget all the little things. If your going to build a building or fix a car and you don,t have the skills hire someone. The trade thing rarely works perfectly.

 

[taumac]

Honestly, I think maybe he was all fine and good at the start and things change. I really think you just need to call or just have a heart to heart talk. You need to find out whats the deal.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Life is too short for "one way", "user", "fair weather friends". He bailed on you when you needed him after you helped him countless times.

Move on and forget about him. I've done this several times. I bet you won't see him again anyway.

Chris

 

[Imcrazy]

Life is too short for "one way", "user", "fair weather friends". He bailed on you when you needed him after you helped him countless times.

Move on and forget about him. I've done this several times. I bet you won't see him again anyway.

Chris

And he will move on to the next sucker he can use until they wise up, too.

 

[bazzateer]

You know this guy is probably really your friend, but the thing is you don't sleep with him.

Really thought you were going to suggest BANG HIM!

 

[bazzateer]

11pm Thursday night I get a text from a friend on holiday in the Canary Islands. His home has been burgled. My reply "What do you need me to do?" I then threw a sleeping bag in my car and drove to his house to stay there overnight until the SOCO (CSI) arrived in the morning. When a friend is in need, you don't think twice about and you certainly don't think of payment, although the 1 litre bottle of SoCo he brought me from the Duty Free shop is very welcome!

 

[Kevin54]

I know I would like to have the money I saved my so called friends. Roofing jobs, siding jobs, concrete jobs, adding porches on, adding rooms on, building decks.

And I must have run around with some of the dumbest friends or they were smart and I was dumb, because most of them seemed like they couldn't wipe their own ***.

Most of my friends or so called friends were like me. Average family, didn't go to college, always had to work to get some change, but they didn't know how to do anything. One was bitching that a mechanic wanted $2500 to change an engine in his truck and he was buying the engine. After he bought the engine he was complaining he didn't have the money to pay the mechanic. He was amazed we had it out and the other in, in about 4 hours time. Total pay? He helped me drink my beer. Another guy was a Toolmaker I worked with. He wanted a woodshop built as he made wood crafts with his wife and sold them. He couldn't drive a nail, and knew absolutely nothing when it came to framing, but was a good student. And he was 63 years old. Total pay for a 20x20 wood shop with 9' ceilings finished inside and out, I helped him drink his beer. I'd never ask for money for helping a friend, but all those friends I helped, you think they come around today? Hell No!!!

 

[NUTTSGT]

I also did mention that I asked him what he wanted for his help, and he said not to worry about it because I have helped him. I asked because wanted to know what would be fair to him, because I wanted to avoid a situation like this. If he would have said no, I am too busy or doesn't have the time, or needs to get paid I would have been fine with it, and he knows that. I would have paid hime, or If he was too busy I would have just found another way to accomplish the task.

So I take it, you talked to him ?

 

[1grnlwn]

I have no advise on good friends, I have none. I have helped people in the past with projects, I have skills and like to use them. I usually have just volunteered to help. I think the grey area is when you ask someone to help you with a trade that they do for a living. IMO If the tradesman offers and you are helping to your best abilities, he should have known what he is getting in to. I helped a guy jack up a unattached (cheap) garage one time he wanted a taller ceiling and door. He was not the sharpest tack in the drawer but not afraid to work. I had never done anything like that before but approach things with common sense. He had borrowed six or seven RR jacks that had different strokes per pump, that made it interesting. Anyway he had all his door information and we figured out together how high we needed to go. It is quite a trip when you get a whole garage a foot off the ground. Oh and it had a porch roof also on the side. I can't remember how high we went but I think it was 18" or so . By the time we got it to that height I was pretty nervous and was anxious to get the stub wall built and under the walls. Every thing went fine and it turned out nice and square/level etc. When it was all said and done, there was little if any gratitude and in fact he blamed me because he had to order a low ceiling kit for the garage door. Oh well it was fun as hell doing that. You never seen anything as crazy as a garage at night with light shooting out in all directions under the walls. Science fiction.

 

[Noxx]

Hell, who ain't been to this party right?

I find its best to have a long sit down before projects like this get off the ground. Make sure everybody's on the same page.

All the same I still don't pay out more rope than I'm willing to lose.

 

[Bevis]

My best friend is a mechanic and does work from home. He asked me for ideas on building a shop. I priced out everything he would need and he bought the materials. I poured/finished the floors, and built the shop. After it was all siad and done he asked what he owed me as he pulled out his checkbook. Picking up a 2x4 and told him i'd break both his arms if he ever asked me that agian...so he has taken me flying several times or flying somewhere to have dinner with our spouses.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Ya... If this buddy pounds nails for his bread and butter,, doing your project could be looked upon as a charity case... The cars are a HOBBY, and hobby kinship vs bread and butter are looked upon as totally different worlds... (((in the eyes of some people,,,,sound familiar??)))

Like your shop and tools were there anyway;; so no skin off your teeth for his free use of them... (((in the eyes of some; this don't count)))