Builder built garage too short. What penalty?

[vlocci]

I'm neck deep in an extensive underground garage build. It required blasting tons of rock to ultimately allow an entirely undergoing garage to be built into the hillside of my home.

Architect designed, this was not an insignificant job as it will total well into 6 figures.

Problem is the builder got the height wrong and my called out (on the plans) 13 foot interior ceiling height is more like 12. Lots of finger pointing between the builder, his now fired project manager and the various subs. Not my problem, except it kinda is.

This has caused a daisy chain effect with concrete roof slabs being delayed, a new waterproofing method for the roof, etc etc.

Tearing it out and starting over is not an option as 60 yards of concrete have already been placed.

My custom designed 3 car stacker lift ($50k) doesn't fit, which I believe is on the contractor. The manufacturer of this obviously can't resell it as it was designed for the space.

The space, while useable, does not meet my original plans or needs any longer.

Financial remedies are likely the only valid one at this stage as fixing things now that the concrete roof slabs have been craned into place and grouted under 5 yards of concrete is not reasonable.

This said, how to assess the price deduction vs. the failure to build what was designed, engineered and permitted?

If this was a 350k garage build, what is the appropriate deduction in your opinion.

I'm trying to be fair to the contractor while still getting compensated for his screw up and my new builds falling sorry if they original planned use.

Getting another contractor to bid a fix is effectively asking them to start over.

Vin

 

[CTyankee]

Getting another contractor to bid a fix is effectively asking them to start over.

Vin

Wow..I guess if you can find a way to be satisfied with the result, there's an amount to be calculated. JMHO, but I don't see any reasonable remedy other than starting the whole thing over. I'm sure It would be a huge settlement amount to get you back to step one, but that's what insurance(the builders that is) is for. Good luck.

 

[claymont]

Is the home built on top of the garage; has it been started yet? If not can you extend the foundation?

 

[dave*99]

Would a replacement lift designed for the lower height be usable?

 

[dcg9381]

> If this was a 350k garage build, what is the appropriate deduction in your opinion.

What is the cost to fix? That's the appropriate deduction. And frankly even that is a HUGE compromise because doing that work adds additional risk and additional complication and it could quickly exceed the estimated cost to fix. I'd say that number is what you're "entitled" to, but taking that deduction (which the contractor ain't gonna give you) is unlikely.

The reality here in the south is that the contractor would just walk away and be much better off taking a bath on the remaining draws. And suing a contractor around here? Good luck. I think at $350k, not built to spec, we're well into attorney territory - IF that contractor has assets to pull from. The best attorney in the world cannot squeeze water from a rock. Around here, a GC draws down their accounts to zero and starts a new company with a new account, in a new company name.

Here, this would have been an "engineered" foundation where the engineering company supervised the pour. That's what we pay for "around here" with an engineer. There is professional liability there (and maybe an insurance policy that could pay).

Here is the other risk: If the engineer is pointing at the contractor, who is pointing at the subs, there is probably a bunch of money being withheld (as their should be). Around here an unpaid sub can file a lien.

Whatever amount you ask for is likely to be "very substantial" and if the building market in Boston is anywhere like it is in Texas, you're going to be offered some portion of profit margin which is far less than than making you whole.

The only other "compromise" option I see is building another structure that fits that lift. Or a lift that works within that structure.

 

[FredWanaker]

Is there a completion bond? Do you have an attorney? Why are you asking questions on the Internet when you should be talking with both your attorney and the bonding company. If neither exist then you rolled the dice and things went south. I doubt if venting here will solve the issue. Talk with the architect to see what they see as the easiest way out of this.

 

[ace10]

You may want to consider engaging a construction investigation/litigation expert, typically they'd be part of an engineering firm.
And hopefully it goes without saying that you'd be looking outside of any of the parties involved with the project to date.

You're at a critical point in this build. Don't leap to a decision without professional assistance.

 

[dcg9381]

Here we call the "completion bond" a "final draw".
I agree with presenting the problem to an architect.
You need a specalized attorney to deal with this. It's not general litigation. And frankly the attorney is not your first "go to". One way to find one is to use the typical "open records" of the civil court system (here they are online) and see what attorneys are suing builders/contractors.

 

[MoonRise]

Penalty?

Fix it.

-You- didn't screw up the build, the builder did. You asked for a certain design (designed by the architect and engineering firms and approved on your building permits). The builder did not build what they contractually agreed to build. Thus by definition they are in default of the contract.

If the builder had completed the project per spec and then you declared 'Hey, I don't feel like paying you the already contractually agreed upon price and am only going to pay you 70%', would the builder accept that? I don't think so.

Hard pricing compensation? Your custom lift won't fit in the undersized space, that's directly the builder's fault. He eats the entire cost of the custom lift ($50k) AND a replacement custom lift (another $50k?) that actually fits into the undersized space and gets you as close to the original specs as possible. That's $100k right there. But the builder gets to keep the original $50k custom lift.

The space you designed and engineered and PAID for was supposed to be 13 ft tall, but is only 12 ft tall. Directly right there, that is an 8% height reduction. Let's round that to 10%, and assess the builder that direct 10% reduction off of the original $350k price. That's another $35k.

Up to $135k compensation in direct costs and the reduction in height.

Now to put a figure on your reduced enjoyment and usage of the space that you designed and engineered and paid for? A lot.

To me, some controlled demolition costs to remove and then replace/rebuild the roof panels should be less than $135k. Heck, demo the entire project and BUILD IT RIGHT.

What does your lawyer say? Or the architect?

 

[Gogo300]

Bang their wives.

 

[billconner]

Are the architects' and engineers' drawings correct?

Get a lawyer.

 

[liliysdad]

Boy....talk about some first world problems.

 

[mybigwarwagon]

You need a lawyer.

 

[kep5niner]

Career PM for a GC here. Get a lawyer.

 

[Stuart in MN]

The lift cost $50k, would be the cost of fixing the garage height be more than that? Does the contractor have some sort of errors and omissions insurance?

 

[PCustoms]

What is the measurement?

What is on the plan? Who approved the plan?

 

[Jeepster04]

My mouth literally fell open reading this. Simply amazing.

There is no way for us to put a monetary value on this. If he takes $100k off, would you be happy? I sure wouldn't.. Heck, if he didn't charge me anything, I wouldn't be happy. He should have insurance for stuff like this, he should use it. It will most like destroy him, but you didn't do this. Have you asked him what HE plans to do to correct this? Does he know you have a $50,000 custom lift that cannot be used?

I would give them a chance, then lawyer up.... If you are happy just taking some $$ off the top and having a useless garage, thats up to you.

 

[charbar]

Is going DOWN another foot with the floor to get your 13' an option in any way?

 

[vlocci]

Thanks guys.

This garage build was part of a much larger home remodel, do there is significant other work happening asking with a very large final draw due once we get to substantial completion on the remainder of the house.

To redo this portion of the underground garage (which has a terrace above) well require some significant demo. The concrete roof has a rebar cage tied into the foundation walls. Starting over would add another 12 months and likely result in a bankrupt contractor who has undone things and left me in a entirely uncompleted mess. Finding a replacement contractor to step in and build this in the current market will take months to identify and many more to get availability.


No lawyer involved yet and I view that was a last resort. Pragmatically, Going after 200k in rework , plus attorney costs which I will need to front, is sure to push this company to bankruptcy with me chasing payment into my old age.

My architect strongly urges trying to find a settlement compromise. He pushes the amount back in me with the "how much will make you not think about this".

How does builders insurance work in a situation like this.

It's falling to build to plans make them subject to a claim against their insurance? Can I simply file a claim against their policy?

If so, how does a builder insurance provider seek to mitigate?

I expect an attorney could answer these questions, buti rather get some answers and insight before I sit down with one.

 

[vlocci]

No luck going down. This originally required blasting out the rocky hillside, so the massive footings are now pinned to the bedrock. No luck excavating down.

 

[mybigwarwagon]

OF course architect wants it to go away quietly. He doesn't want his name involved in a lawsuit. Never take advice from someone involved in the situation. You got screwed, screw back.

But I am just an old redneck.

 

[scooby074]

You should be talking to your attorney.

If it was specced for 13', your lift was designed for 13', you need 13'.

Maybe you can negoitate the builder paying for a new lift, assuming you can get buy with the lower height and a 10% penalty + legal fees if you want to go easy on them? Hard to argue its not negligence on the builders part.

 

[mrpizza]

Get a lawyer, dude. Quickly.

If it were my build, I would have had an attorney, the architect, the insurance agent and anyone else involved on notice immediately.

 

[rayra]

lol first world problems.

All this talk of demolishing everything done so far is just ludicrous. Lower the floor - of that one stall - the necessary 10-11". If it is blasted out / excavated, it's solid enough to drill / core / jackhammer enough of a hole to get your stack rack in place.

 

[rustyjames]

I have to laugh at the starting over comments. And lawyers are going to **** up a huge portion of anything gained. I would work on a big "give back" and move forward.

 

[ace10]

I have to laugh at the starting over comments. And lawyers are going to **** up a huge portion of anything gained. I would work on a big "give back" and move forward.

Why?
Are you familiar enough with the project to know with certainty that the failure of the builder to get this step correct won't result in follow-on problems? Or that there aren't other significant defects with the work that has already been performed?

Nobody here knows what the "right" solution is to this situation, but I don't think that anything can be dismissed off hand.

I do agree that a lawyer isn't the direction I would travel. Their resolution will likely be bound by the four corners of the contract and governing law. Sensible middle ground isn't really their forte, IMO.

 

[vlocci]

Guys,

Starting over simply isn't going to happen. There are 60 yd of concrete that would need to be removed from the foundation walls alone and another 10 or 15 in the footings.

Lowering the floor isn't an option, although I did consider it very seriously and consulted an engineer. The footings for the foundation walls are massive as they need to retain 20 ft of fill on top of them. These footings are 30 in deep and sit just below the 8-in poured concrete slab.

Even if I did manage to drop the floor height by a foot I would now be below grade level and the driveway would be sloping towards the garage and not away from it.

Yes I can bring an attorney, but the 20 to $30,000 spent is throwing good money after bad as litigation will likely push this contractor to bankruptcy. Litigating this while living in a half completed house is equally unappealing.

I was curious if anyone had insight into filing a claim with the builders insurance as there is 5 million in liability coverage associated with this project.

Alternatively I was tempted to audit the builders books and effectively ask him to strike any profit and management fees from this entire project (garage plus house remodel). He would be working for free but at least he wouldn't be tearing out and replacing expensive work. I would additionally ask him to eat the cost of my now scrap three high stacker lift

Thoughts on how reasonable this is?

 

[vlocci]

Should have mentioned, the underground garage we're talking about is a couple thousand square feet this isn't a single bay garage under the living room.

 

[jkeyser14]

The builder is insured right? That insurance could be used to rip it all out and rebuild it to spec if the builder can't afford to do it on their own dime.

Builder's liability insurance covers them for serious errors like this.

 

[PCustoms]

What is the measurement?

What is on the plan? Who approved the plan?

I'll add to these questions, were any inspections done during the pours?

Who signed off at each stage?

 

[The Cobbler]

I am truly sorry for your situation, I don't have any real suggestions. I like the approach you are taking tho. I also agree that getting a lawyer involved will be a nightmare too, I wish you a reasonable end game that you can live with
getting the contractors insurance involved may be reasonable

 

[ace10]

OP, you've mentioned the possibility of the builder going BK as a result of you going at him hard.
What has led you to that belief?

 

[vlocci]

Great questions.

Architect drew plans for entire house remodel including this garage. Plans included a preconstruction survey with topo so we knew the heights of finished grade, the contours of the hillside and how far down to excavate/jackhammer/blast

Builder filled these and started construction. Surveyor (employed by) came out after blasting and marked locations for the corners of the foundation and heights.

Piecing all this together, it looks like the foundation sub who is also employed by the builder simply formed up 12 ft walls instead of 13. I obviously don't have anything formal that makes this clear but it seems like the logical fault.

Roof slabs were dropped,rebar cage installed and the entire roof grouted into place. A week later the forms holding up the port in place garage door header were removed. Only then was able to finally get into the finish space and take a measurement of ceiling height.

Soon the surveyor will be back to get as built drawings complete which will clearly identify the discrepancies.

All subs are employed by the contractor himself so ultimately this is his screw up to deal with. Who he chases for fault really doesn't concern me.

 

[Relax]

Is the lift the only reason you wanted the 13 foot ceiling height? Understanding that it would be difficult, is it impossible to go down another foot just in the area where the lift will be placed? So that it would be sitting in a 1-foot deep depression. If your runway height is 5", you'd basically be driving down 7" to get on the lift.

 

[vlocci]

Builder is a highly regarded, but up and coming custom home builder. He is at the point in his career where he is transitioning from well done homes to exceptional 5-10M dollar projects. He is clearly in that growth phase where he is stretch thin. On one or two occasions we have identified payments we've made to him for supplies not getting to suppliers for a month. I expect cash flow is tight and he is stealing from Peter to pay Paul.

I simply doubt he has cash on hand to redo a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of work.

Sadly the only way I'll find out is to engage a lawyer taking him to court win a judgment and then see if he can actually deliver payment

 

[PCustoms]

I'm shocked that you have this substantial of a project and there weren't footer inspections, wall inspections etc. Before you got to this point.

I'm also curious what was in the plan, how sure are you that the plan showed 13' and not 12'? The issue may go back to the architect.

Was there a PE or other engineer involved?

 

[Relax]

And sorry to hear of your problems. I can't imagine budgeting that much on a dream garage only to find out you're not getting what you really wanted, regardless of how much compensation they may offer.

 

[vlocci]

Definitely had footer and wall inspections along the way from the town building department, but they are more about verifying the size of the footer and walls (footer thickness, amount of rebar, etc) and not the town inspector surveying correct placement and height.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

Career design and construction quality manager for major civil engineering projects: Get a lawyer! Terminate for cause and sue for the monies needs to demo and replace. Add delays, cost increases for funds and materials.

It's NOT what you paid to have design or built, it's not acceptable.

 

[coldh2o]

Tough situation, with no easy solution. Don't think I would be happy with just a monetary settlement, you still don't get a garage that can be used the way you wanted.

I'm intrigued in the triple car stacker that fits in 13' height. Are you stacking three Lotus Elites with flat tires?