Buying a new Sub Compact Utility Tractor

[Michigan Mike]

I am going to buy a new tractor and I want to tap into the GJ knowledge. First the reasons for the purchase. I have forty plus acres that the son grandson and I hunt. I brush hog paths and we are starting to work on food plots. I have been using my old 1210 Ford for that. The 1210 is a mid eightys diesel 4wd with a bucket. The 1210 has done the job for me but it seems like every time we go to use it something breaks or it needs some other fix. Parts are getting impossible or hard to find. I want to replace it with a scut. I also want to replace the mowers at my house. The properties are about ten minutes apart. The wife and I spent the better part of yesterday going around to the various dealers and getting quotes on their small tractors. We started with the Kubota dealer. Drove past the John Deere dealer I wont pay the premium for the name. Looked at Mahindra. Then we made the slightly longer drive to the New holland dealer. On the way back home we stopped at the Massey Ferguson dealer who also handles Kioti. First impressions. The kubota BX is a nice tractor but after comparing prices it seems there is a premium for that name also. The Mahindra Emax 20s seemed to be a little cruder built and down on horse power compared to the others. I admit to being somewhat attached to Ford blue after many years with the 1210 so the New Holland 25s made a good impression on me right a way. Massey Ferguson was not on the radar originally but was on the way so we stopped. I was impressed. The GC1723E is a really nice little tractor. I like the way it looks not swoopy like Kubota it is to me more traditional looking. (I know get off my lawn). The Kioti is not in the running. As things stand now MF and NH are my choices. Probably leaning more toward the MF. Horse power and price are similar. The dealerships are comparable with the NH coming out slightly ahead. So GJ friends give me your input do you own one of these little tractors? Have you or any one you know had issues with them? Let me have it with both barrels I am braced and ready.

 

[jimy]

What is your terrain like? I love my Kubota BX but I wouldn’t think any of the subcompacts are good on rough ground with those small wheels.

 

[HoosierMark]

There’s an interesting video over on greentractortalk about JD and others. Sure it’s biased but it still has some interesting info. I think the big issue is future parts availability and convienence of getting to a dealer. You might also consider spending money on revamping your ford. i read a lot about old tractors being better built than the new ones. I have had a a 1978 AC 5020 4wd with loader for 25 years it is extremely reliable but showing its age. I also have a JD 3320. It is a 2005. I bought it non running because of the price The color was irrelevant, red, green,orange,blue did not matter. I looked at parts and support as important and all the colors had good dealers in my area.

 

[readhead]

Why is Kioti not in the running? They are running a close third to the big two. Bobcat tractors are built by Kioti.

 

[dougf]

I bought an MT125 with a loader, belly mower, and backhoe and i'll have to say I love it, but for my 3.25 acres. I wanted to stay away from emissions (on the 25hp plus tractors) so keep that in mind. Something like an LS MT225 may suit your needs perfectly and you wont have emissions to worry about.

I will say take a good close look at your dealers. I bought from a decent dealer but its 1.5 hours away, vs paying a little more for a tractor with a dealer right down the road might have been a lot smarter logistically.

 

[rct]

I run a 20 yr old Kubota Bx that's great after 1200hrs, so I am Kubota biased, but your 1210 that was great in the woods is a bigger machine than a subcompact. Buy the one you like with good dealer support, but consider a larger 1210 size and weight machine for the land work and get a zero-turn for the lawn. Good luck!

 

[PCustoms]

Sub compact and 40 acres doesn't compute in my mind. How big of a brushhog do you want to pull? What other implements?

Would a compact tractor and a separate lawn mower work better?

 

[AC-WC]

A little wordy but...I did the same thing as you 5 yrs ago and went with the GC1723 Massey for mom's farm. Won't pay for the JD name, looked at Kubota from my favorite AC dealer, Mahindra at a local good dealer and then went to the Massey dealer. All were in the 23 hp range, hydro shift, 4WD, diesel, live PTO, Cat 1 and loader. JD was $19k so immediately wrote that off. Kubota was nice but was around $15k what I didn't like about it was the forward and reverse was setup like a rocker switch, pushed with your toe for forward and heel for reverse wasn't sure how comfortable that was going to be for all the mowing we do. Mahindra was $13k, solid heavy tractor clutch style hydro to get it in gear but again the foot pedal was the definite no-go. If you stood up on the deck to get off you would step on the forward pedal and off you go. Watched step dad do that and if he hadn't hit the clutch in panic mode would have fallen off or run over.

Went to the Massey dealer and the stars aligned. Forward pedal is just to the left and reverse is just to the right of your foot. No way to accidentally move as you stand up to get off. Best part was price was around $12k. Mind you this was 5 yrs ago but we have had 0 problems with that little tractor and just under 400 hours. It's main duty is lawn with 3pt 6' rear mower but the loader is great for manure duty, 4 WD is great for slippery spots in the grass. I have plowed 12" snow with the 7' grader blade off the bigger tractor. Take the trash can down with the loader every week.
Minor things- you do need to let the diesel heater run for a good 20 seconds to a minute when cold after that just crank and it starts even in 0 degree weather. The turn signals on the safety bar should be mounted INSIDE the bar not the OUTSIDE so when you mow under trees they don't catch and break off-don't ask.
A no brainer for me.

Dealer support was also huge for me since it's mom's money and sometimes I can't get to her service/repairs quick enough. Case/IH didn't have any in stock in the hp/size we were looking for. No local NH in our area.

 

[Michigan Mike]

The 1210 while being physically bigger has considerably less horsepower than any of the sub compacts. It is rated at 16 hp. Of the scuts the Mahindra has 19 and all the others have at least 20 ponies. The MF has 22.5 and the NH is close. I would rebuild the 1210 if possible but parts can be unobtainium. I am afraid of it breaking and being unable to fix it. That is why I want something new. The ground on acres is flat and mostly sandy somewhat low with many mature trees. Some is swamp. I would keep the brush hog I am using now it is a four footer. The different salesmen at the different dealers all said their tractors would handle the brush hog. I would send the backblade with the 1210 and get a small box blade. I already have a small disc that I am keeping. A separate lawnmower would work but I am trying to reduce the machines I have to mess with. The small tractor is way overkill for my large suburban lawn but means one less machine in the garage. (I know that is not the GJ way). I appreciate the thoughts guys and am listening but mostly started this thread to see if I could get input on these machines from users and people familiar with them.

 

[Michigan Mike]

AC-WC That is exactly the kind of info I am looking for. As far as the dealers go I would be quite comfortable with the New Holland dealer as I have dealt with them for parts for the 1210 and they have worked on it. The MF dealer has a good reputation but I have no personal experiance with them. All of them are inside of an hours drive and most closer.

 

[ATC]

Small world. I’ve been riding around with a friend for the past 3 weekends looking at small tractors.

From a build quality standpoint, JD is on top followed closely by Kubota. Bobcat was pretty nice, then I’d rate Mahindra and Yanmar at the back. (We haven’t looked at NH or MF yet)

For 40 acres, I would not be looking at sub-compact. I’d go with a compact at minimum. One dealer here has Kubota L2401’s for cheaper than the B and BX models due to overstock. 0% for 72mo too. Under $21k with loader

 

[Michigan Mike]

As far as the 40 acres go I am not farming it. Mostly I am cutting and maintaining paths through brushy and wooded areas. We have started some food plots but these will be mostly small patches. The work I have done I did with the 1210 and will be using the same brush hog with the small tractor.

 

[AC-WC]

Massey has 5 yr powertrain warranty. I don't remember the others having that maybe 3yrs or less for them??
You will be very surprised at 4WD on a tractor. I really didn't want it but in that size range it's a game changer vs 2WD.
My AC dealer has been very good to me, pushing 25 yrs now. I wished he carried the Massey line but he carries the Kubota. He redid the head on my WC over 20 yrs and it was still in good shape when the block finally cracked beyond repair. Just had him rebuild my WD45 engine 2 yrs ago (cheaper than a new tractor by 6X). He's the furthest from me at 50 minutes, Massey dealer is 30. Massey dealer has also been good to me. We ended up buying 2 more tractors from him for mom's farm, a lawn tractor and much larger 1740 (40hp). I'm glad you understand dealer support vs upfront cost.
Everything you have looked at are all decent to good quality but it's support after the sale. Tractor/dealers are NOT the same as automotive side. They know their bread and butter is in reputation and repairs not just the initial sale and farmers ALWAYS need the support.
I was going to say stay on the small side for the brush cutter and 4ft is just right for that size range. We also went with the industrial tires vs ag tires. Doesn't tear up the lawn as much and none of our tractors have weighted tires. You can also mow over your septic field with the scut vs anything much larger. In my area FW, IN the GC1723 was still low priced around $12.5 or 13k but without loader at that price.

 

[PCustoms]

Massey has 5 yr powertrain warranty. I don't remember the others having that maybe 3yrs or less for them??

Kioti was 5yrs on everything.

 

[Michigan Mike]

Prices are running from 19 to just above 22 here. That is with a belly mower and loader. The power train warrantys are six to ten? years and the rest of the tractor is a 2yr

 

[NUTTSGT]

I bought a JD 1025R TLB with a 54" deck. I liked it, still do, but wanted something bigger. So as a go between, I bought a HydrosPlus diverter and 9 GPM pump. I also bumped the hydraulic pressure up a bit. It made it a different animal and filled the rear tires with Rimguard

I still contemplated something bigger and this spring found a 2032R TLB with a grapple. I jumped on the purchase.

The wife said to keep the smaller brother but I was going to sell the back hoe. I told her last week, I think I will sell the 1025R as a complete TLB. All it has done since buying the bigger Deere is mow the yard.

Bottom line is you pay for what you get. I have several JD dealers around me and parts are a day or two out if not in stock.

Might want to check out GTT.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Prices are running from 19 to just above 22 here. That is with a belly mower and loader. The power train warrantys are six to ten? years and the rest of the tractor is a 2yr

Prices have jumped tremendously in the last couple of years.

 

[Moss]

I went with Kubota L3400 new in 2010 and zero issues. Personally I am really happy I didn't go sub compact. A few of my neighbors have them and they are just too small. Horsepower isn't indicative of how a tractor will perform in my experience. Weight and traction make a tractor useful.

 

[WildBill]

I recently took advantage of the nothing down/no interest for 72 months deal on a NH 25s with loader and backhoe. I love it, 25hp, 4wd, uses industry standard mounting points and quick connects on hoses. Has higher lift rating on front than the others I looked at and has handled a bunch of digging and gravel hauling for a 50ft retaining wall and big paver project with ease. It comes with a 2 year everything warranty and I think 5 year powertrain but I got them to give me a 6 year full coverage for free. The higher power lifting got me interested but after trying the Kioti, JD, and Kubota equivalents it seemed nicer to use and more powerful. My friend got a Kioti at the same time and it feels kinda cheap, as well as not near as powerful even though they both are rated around 25hp.

 

[TnClimber]

I have a 2005 Kubota BX. I did the shopping in the summer. JD was actually cheaper than Kubota. I passed on Bobcat and MF/NH because they had less features. When I buy another, I’ll probably go with the B01 series Kubota. The BX is a little under powered for lifting logs or heavy digging. It does great for moving mulch, gravel and light digging. My 2 cents.

 

[JeepYJ]

The NH is made by LS Tractors, not that impressive in my experience.
Take a look at Deere, you might be surprised at the pricing. The resale more than makes up for the up front cost. They have the best fit and finish and ergonomics of all the small tractors. And probably the best parts resources and online knowledge base of any of the CUTS.
Kioti deserves a really good second look too. Their fit and finish and ergonomics have greatly improved over the last few years.
Kubota has that dreaded treadle pedal on most models. That makes it a no-go for me right from the start. (I know it has its fans, but it ***** compared to two pedals)
MF makes some decent models and some that are like a 8N Ford but built in 2023.

 

[zkdiesel]

I’d pay extra for a Kubota

 

[WildBill]

The JD equivalent to my 25s with loader and backhoe was $9k more, and the Kubota was about $7k.

 

[Michigan Mike]

Just wakeing up. Thanks for the opinions guys. ZK my ears are wide open for anything you have to say about any of these little tractors good bad or ugly.

 

[finn]

My Kioti ck4010 has been a solid machine. I wouldn’t go any smaller than it, and I wouldn’t trap myself into an underpowered 25hp machine because I was afraid of a simple particulate filter. Emission controls on 25+ hp tractors are a non issue. They’ve been here for ten years and are innocuous.

Get a hydrostatic transmission, with two pedals rather than the old fashioned rocker pedal that Kubota still uses, and a three range transmission if you have any distance to travel, which it sounds like you might.

Mine has a cab and mid pto for a front snowblower, which I gladly budgeted for. The bonus is the comfort that heat and air conditioning give you.

 

[Firebrick43]

Just wakeing up. Thanks for the opinions guys. ZK my ears are wide open for anything you have to say about any of these little tractors good bad or ugly.

Are you thinking that you will keep the tractor as long as you kept the ford?

Do you think you will have as much issues with parts with some of the other manufacture as you are having with the Fiat industrial/New holland/Case Ih conglomerate? Parts availability went to hell when Fiat took over on older stuff.

Kubota and John Deere are not perfect but they have been better in parts availability throughout the decades hence resale value.

Also sub compact tractors have a frame like a garden tractor. You are mowing along your trails and a stick gets shoved up in between the frame rails and destroys the driveshaft to the rear ends cooling fan or the drive shaft itself. Then you need skid plates to protect it but then grass/chaff/seed builds up in there.

Plus subcompacts small tires and narrow wheel base makes them plodders and limits tire turn making for wide turns.

They make 25 hp compact tractors that are unitized giving much better protection and wider stance and bigger tires giving better ride/handling/maneuverability/traction off the lawn which is where sub compacts were designed for.

 

[bugnut]

Interesting question, I purchased an 8n Ford for the work you are describing on a 50 acre spread which I hunt about 30 minutes away. Mowing, lanes and around the woods, plots for planting various legumes and such in food plots, hauling fallen logs out of 4 wheeler paths, etc. I picked the 8n as it can sit outside all winter, easy to find parts, Amazn, TSC, RuralKing, Ebay, etc. It pulls a 5ft brush hog, 6 foot blade, 3 point 5ft disk. All told i'm in for less than 3 grand. I have a BX2370 at home with a grapple, fel and other stuff, but its just easier to let them stay were they are and use them as needed. Yes I do have to do some maintenance once in a while and I do take the jump box when I go to use the distant 8n, but my capitol involved makes these easy for me. Best of luck and now is a great time to be looking for used equipment!

 

[Michigan Mike]

I will probably keep this tractor as long as I have kept the 1210. Probably. It sounds like skidplates are going to be a needed option. I won't be going down the road with this tractor. The distance between house and hunting requires a trailer. I don't have a problem with used but anything like what I am looking for is close to new price. At my age (73) a warranty sounds good. I am liking messing with used equipment less and less.

 

[PCustoms]

My Kioti ck4010 has been a solid machine. I wouldn’t go any smaller than it, and I wouldn’t trap myself into an underpowered 25hp machine because I was afraid of a simple particulate filter. Emission controls on 25+ hp tractors are a non issue. They’ve been here for ten years and are innocuous.

Get a hydrostatic transmission, with two pedals rather than the old fashioned rocker pedal that Kubota still uses, and a three range transmission if you have any distance to travel, which it sounds like you might.

Mine has a cab and mid pto for a front snowblower, which I gladly budgeted for. The bonus is the comfort that heat and air conditioning give you.

I've got a CK3510 (same engine, just detuned) on 3.5 acres. I run a grapple, forks, 8' plow, 7' box blade and a stump grinder.

40 acres and a subcompact just doesn't compute for me. Someone else mentioned it, but I've always viewed a SC as an overgrown lawnmower, sort of like the "garden tractors" from years past. The OP mentioned a box blade, unless it's very small/the soil is very loose and dry I don't see that being successful.

Maybe I overlooked their utility.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'll agree with the hydrostatic transmission as well.

You're up near Kzoo, I suggest checking out Rimguard, I believe they are up in the area. It'll help and is fairly cheap. I paid less than $100 for both rear tires on the 1025R.

 

[jar944]

No direct experience with any but my dad has been happy with his Kubota.

 

[Michigan Mike]

The 1210 has a hydro trans and the rocker forward reverse so I am used to that. As much as I love my standard trans road vehicles I don't want anything other than a hydro trans in a tractor. The box blade would be 4' the soil is sandy. I have no experiance with a box blade. I just know the back blade on the 1210 was frustrating at times.

 

[manwithtools]

Sub compact and 40 acres? No way in my opinion, I vote compact with 25 hp. In my experience with 4 Kubota's, there was never a need for warranty or service in 15 years of ownership. Just bought another one (zero turn) this year. I know I paid a premium over other brands, but I did not even shop them.

 

[NUTTSGT]

The 1210 has a hydro trans and the rocker forward reverse so I am used to that. As much as I love my standard trans road vehicles I don't want anything other than a hydro trans in a tractor. The box blade would be 4' the soil is sandy. I have no experiance with a box blade. I just know the back blade on the 1210 was frustrating at times.

Wanting a hydro transmission helps in the selection factor and will rule out a few.

Too bad you're not closer, I would tell you to stop by. You could run both the 1025R & 2032R, both FEL and backhoe (for reference) and see the size difference between a Series 1 & 2, 25hp vs 32hp machinery respectively.

 

[jpaw]

I have a Bx1850 on 10 acres. My experience over 20 years has been that it is great for mowing and flat land work but it severely lacks in ground clearance for any work in the woods or ground engaging work. IMHO with 40 acres you shouldn't even consider a scut. If I had it to do over I would start with the next size up tractor for the ground clearance and 3 speed transmission just for starters.
Also as you go larger and you get away from a mid pto that is a pretty good savings if you don't have the need for one.

 

[Michigan Mike]

A little more about the situation. The tractor can't stay on the hunting property for long periods no shelter and possibility of theft and vandalism. So that means it will get trailerd back and forth. If it has to reside full time at the house I want to get some use out of it. Even if it is way overkill for my lawn. I can make room for it at the house if I get rid of some lawn equipment. Thanks Nuttsgt for the offer if I was closer I would take you up on it.

 

[Michigan Mike]

On the total acres at least a third of it is to wet to access most of the time so actually looking at less acres to work on.

 

[jpaw]

If mowing is important you can still get a belly mower on the smaller compact tractors. I know kubota b series and even some l series offer belly mowers but they are quite expensive and imo a zero turn is a better investment if you have the room.

 

[finn]

A little more about the situation. The tractor can't stay on the hunting property for long periods no shelter and possibility of theft and vandalism. So that means it will get trailerd back and forth. If it has to reside full time at the house I want to get some use out of it. Even if it is way overkill for my lawn. I can make room for it at the house if I get rid of some lawn equipment. Thanks Nuttsgt for the offer if I was closer I would take you up on it.

I found a used flail mower for my Kioti. For my use, it’s a better fit than the rotary cutter (bush hog) for mowing around my shop, because it’s shorter overall, thus more maneuverable.

It won’t replace a lawn tractor or zero turn for a fine cut, though.

A compact like the Ck will fit on a normal car hauler, even with the flail attached.

If your property is somewhat wet, all the more reason to consider a compact over a sub compact.

 

[Jackfre]

I just sold the property that required the tractors. I had 15 yrs on a BX2660. No issues. Also had the BX23 for 10 yrs, which I bought used. Again no issues. I too, looked at all the brands, but having no experience with tractors and a preference for Kubota’s and a local dealer I bought it. Again unlike you I had no experience and the ability to stop in and ask questions was great. I had the MMM and the 48” bush hog. Ours was a small property but I had to reclaim the back portion and needed the Bush hog for that. I would only drive it up and down the fall line wit hthe rear mower. While the BX handled it there were to many times that I felt the implement was driving the tractor vs the other way around. I got it knocked down to where I could use the 60” MMM and sold the hog. Whichever brand you go with I’m very much in agreement with others that you need more tractor for the rear mower. I miss my tractors