jonesg
Well-known member
i don't believe he could give a care, he's entitled to do what he wants.
JD had no choice when the right to repair act was enacted. They had to be forced.
Buying a new Sub Compact Utility Tractor
- Thread starter Michigan Mike
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JD had no choice when the right to repair act was enacted. They had to be forced.
Tractors typically don’t have titles and I’m not sure why I’d want a copy of your neighbors.
They had the programs and hardware available for sale for several years.
Without knowledge and training of how to use it it’s not much use to the average Joe.
jonesg
Well-known member
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Maines right to repair was just enacted a few days ago.
John Deere started selling the diagnostic program in May of 2022, under no act of any kind that I am aware of.
LopezBart
Well-known member
Where diesel engines really shine is low load running; they have minimal pumping losses since there's no manifold vacuum/throttle plate. As a result, tractor workloads that don't load the engine heavily will consume significantly less fuel with a diesel than with a gas engine. If you're running flat out, the difference is much less marked.
Let's leave the right to repair discussion to another thread. It's not a concern for the OP in search for a small utility tractor at this point in time.
finn
Well-known member
Also, consider that Diesel fuel has a significantly higher specific gravity and energy content than gasoline, so that’s about a 25% advantage if you’re figuring gallons burned per hour or day, and most gasoline engines are calibrated to go rich at high loads to protect the power cylinder and valves from overheating under those conditions.
jkeyser14
Well-known member
My Kubota BX will easily run all day on 5 gallons of diesel... I have done it dozens of times clearing snow, working my garden, moving mulch and wood, etc.
OP
Michigan Mike
Well-known member
Just dropping in to say. I am expecting delivery of my Kubota possibly today but probably Monday,
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Woohoo! Which did you go with?
Even though you aren't a new tractor owner, feels like you should do the new owner thing and tear ip the yard to celebrate
bugnut
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Inquiring mind want to know!
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Context
He was talking about 40 year old farm tractors. Which I would assume were at least 60 hp maybe up to 140 hp?? But safe to say not a SCUT
RPH
Well-known member
I have the David brown 1210 tractor in the report. Granted this is a 65 hp, 4 cylinder diesel engine. Look to the fuel consumption at rated 65 hp requires over 4 gallons an hour! Also good choice on the Kubota. You will be pleased with it.
“All day” on a SCUT?
Big ag tractors consume a gallon of fuel in mere minutes or less. It’s just math, it takes a certain amount of fuel to produce a certain amount of work (horsepower).I have the David brown 1210 tractor in the report. Granted this is a 65 hp, 4 cylinder diesel engine. Look to the fuel consumption at rated 65 hp requires over 4 gallons an hour! Also good choice on the Kubota. You will be pleased with it.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Duh, the objective "all day" measurement, of course
I've easily done a weekends worth of work (10+ hours on the clock?) With only 5 gallon can of diesel in the CUT.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Have to laugh at the "can" mention. 2 gal, 5 gal, 10 gal, 55 gal? I jest, just poking fun at the ambiguity of some of these statements
10 hours isn’t a “full day” especially spread out over a weekend.
My can is a 55 gallon drum.
Not really, tractor holds a little over 8 gallons and I fill it 5 gallons at a time.
Excuse my estimate on the time. I put a lot of hours on in the first 6 months but didn't break it down daily. I do know that I can run from 8am to 8pm using the tractor (loader and box blade), but shutting it down periodically, over the course of 2-3 days and not have to fuel up.
finn
Well-known member
That makes for one sore *** and a couple of cramped up legs,
jkeyser14
Well-known member
Yes
Crazyjake8493
Well-known member
I keep my forks on more often than the bucket. I'm not moving snow or mulch or soil every week but there's several times a week when I find uses for my pallet forks. They should basically be included with every tractor just like the bucket.
LB-1911
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Firebrick43
Well-known member
10 gal, 25gal, and 55 gal containers have always been referred to drums.
Hand portable fuel containers are referred to cans. Many cant lift over 5 gallons of diesel (35) up to the fill on a larger tractor.
There isn't any ambiguity in the language, its well established for well over a century.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Must be a bunch of millennials posting in here thinking a full days work is 10 hours over the weekend
But the fuel use conversations always make me chuckle. Most people don’t track their gallons per hour or consider what they’re doing. Any engine in a correct state of tune and operating condition will burn a certain amount of fuel to do work over time. That can be calculated fairly easily. There isn’t some magic “Kubota diesel” that runs on vapors for days on end. They’re all about the same.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
I always wished they would run on 5 gals a day.Must be a bunch of millennials posting in here thinking a full days work is 10 hours over the weekend
But the fuel use conversations always make me chuckle. Most people don’t track their gallons per hour or consider what they’re doing. Any engine in a correct state of tune and operating condition will burn a certain amount of fuel to do work over time. That can be calculated fairly easily. There isn’t some magic “Kubota diesel” that runs on vapors for days on end. They’re all about the same.
My dad was to cheap for a bed tank w/pump. To cheap for proper fuel cans, he would save the 5 gal oil pails for fuel cans.
Many of mornings I would have to pour 20 gal in the 35 hp tractor for raking hay, 20 gallon in the 60hp loader tractor and 50 plus gallons plus in the 85 hp baling tractor.
My arms would be tired but then the dew was lifted enough to rake so I would do that till noon
jkeyser14
Well-known member
For all the people calling B.S. on fuel consumption:
According to the EPA gallon of diesel produces 38 kW-hrs of energy. 1 HP = .75kw. A 25 HP tractor at full power is 18.75 kw. That is 2 hours of full tractor output per gallon. Therefore 5 gallons = 10 hours of work at 100% engine output. Most people/tasks don't go anywhere even close full engine load for 10 hours straight on a SCUT.
According to the EPA gallon of diesel produces 38 kW-hrs of energy. 1 HP = .75kw. A 25 HP tractor at full power is 18.75 kw. That is 2 hours of full tractor output per gallon. Therefore 5 gallons = 10 hours of work at 100% engine output. Most people/tasks don't go anywhere even close full engine load for 10 hours straight on a SCUT.
finn
Well-known member
You forgot that a Diesel engine is only round 30% efficient, so most of that energy is waste heat.
I won't say his name out loud for persec reasons, but his first name isn't "Andrew" or his last name "Camarata" by any chance is it?
I don’t think anyone was calling BS on consumption, it’s more about how many hours a person actually uses a SCUT in a day let alone at full power. Like @finn says, a diesel is about 30% efficient in converting that to mechanical energy. A hydro unit will consume some of that energy as well. Full out a 25hp scut will run about 3 hours on 5 gallons from my experience. “Full out” would be ground engaging tillage equipment like a subsoiler or plow or rototiller. Those seem to use the most fuel. The subsoiler can easily stall out a SCUT if you run it deep enough.
Idling around using the FEL to move stuff around will use very little fuel, that’s barely working a 25hp engine.
I keep close tabs on my fuel consumption by hour, just for curiosity’s sake, while doing different tasks. It just gives me an idea of how hard I’m actually working the tractor.
RaisedByWolves
Well-known member
RaisedByWolves
Well-known member
I do a lot of full throttle light duty work with mine( mowing, leaf collection, loader, B hoe) and I’m good for 8-10 hrs on a 6 gal tank.
Actually the loader and hoe work are not full throttle, maybe 2/3.
Moss
Well-known member
I think you will be happy with your decision. You'll likely have no issues with parts or reliability and several years from now it will still hold a fair amount of it's value. Not that the other choices are bad but Kubota is a good choice. I remember when mine was all shiny new orange and my inexperienced Dad lifted a bucket of rockets up without tilting bucket forward and made about 6 small dents/scratches on the hood! At least from that moment on I didn't worry about scratching it anymore!
jkeyser14
Well-known member
Short of hitting a tree root or buried boulder I have never once stalled my BX with a subsoiler and we have very heavy clay soil. I do run loaded tires though.
jkeyser14
Well-known member
The EPA numbers I listed are usable engine power. It is based on the EPA driving cycles.
finn
Well-known member
I don’t know about these little 25 hp Diesels, but a mid range industrial or light truck diesel comes in at around .400 lb/bhp hr fuel consumption at rated speed and load and somewhere around .375 lb/bhp hr at peak torque. Most engines have their best specific fuel consumption, more or less, at a given speed along the lug curve. Light load is worse, since the divisor is lower. Best specific fuel consumption is around peak torque, depending on calibration.
Idle consumption is a lot less on a gallon per hour basis.since Diesels run around 100:1 a/f ratio at those speeds, compared to maybe 14:1 for a gasoline engine.
If you want to do the math, Diesel is about 7 lb/ gallon and gasoline is closer to 6 lb/gallon. I don’t recall the actual numbers to a couple of decimal places after all these years.
FYI, the generally accepted actual run time for a scut or cut personal use tractor is around 50-100 hours /year. Most sources I have seen use 50 hours annually. Your results might vary, though.
There we go, OP has made a decision and I will be closing the thread.
We're not doing a ******* match in fuel consumption.
OP is free to start a new thread when his Kubota arrives.
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