Buying a TIG machine - Seeking advice

[R.Anderson]

How long have you had the Everlast?

Its a new style PP205 or PP256. Can't be that long Everlast came out with that body style last year just after I bought the PP205. I wasn't too happy to find that out, the new ones look better.
The only problems I have found with the Everlast machine is the accessories work out of the box but they **** donkey balls. Spend some money and upgrade.
Replace the foot pedal with a SSC pedal you will be happy happy happy I was , Everlast sells this its their low profile pedal and its shipped from SSC. Found this out from contacting SSC to make me a pedal. You can find it here: http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Replace-parts.php (the SSC pedal is last on the page the one pictured is not what you get you get a SSC pedal)
Get yourself a Weldcraft TIG torch and cable you will need to make your own adapter its easy, if anyone is interested just hit me up Ill post more on it.
The cables for the work clamp, and stinger cable **** and I find them too short for what I like. Buy some good quality cable E-bay is the cheapest source for good cable that I have found.
I have spent about $400 on upgrading but thats with two Weldcraft flexhead TIG torches both with 25' foot cables (one has a thumb switch), 20' work cable and clamp, and a SSC pedal. I got the torches and cables off of ebay, pedal from Everlast, every thing else I had or Menards for brass fittings to make two adapters.

If you decide to by an Everlast make an offer or ask whats the lowest they will go for you, I did and they knocked off $200.

 

[R.Anderson]

Great lookin cart Adam, the Syncrowave 250 looks brand new sitting in it.

 

[SeanM]

Its a new style PP205 or PP256. Can't be that long Everlast came out with that body style last year just after I bought the PP205. I wasn't too happy to find that out, the new ones look better.
The only problems I have found with the Everlast machine is the accessories work out of the box but they **** donkey balls. Spend some money and upgrade.
Replace the foot pedal with a SSC pedal you will be happy happy happy I was , Everlast sells this its their low profile pedal and its shipped from SSC. Found this out from contacting SSC to make me a pedal. You can find it here: http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Replace-parts.php (the SSC pedal is last on the page the one pictured is not what you get you get a SSC pedal)
Get yourself a Weldcraft TIG torch and cable you will need to make your own adapter its easy, if anyone is interested just hit me up Ill post more on it.
The cables for the work clamp, and stinger cable **** and I find them too short for what I like. Buy some good quality cable E-bay is the cheapest source for good cable that I have found.
I have spent about $400 on upgrading but thats with two Weldcraft flexhead TIG torches both with 25' foot cables (one has a thumb switch), 20' work cable and clamp, and a SSC pedal. I got the torches and cables off of ebay, pedal from Everlast, every thing else I had or Menards for brass fittings to make two adapters.

If you decide to by an Everlast make an offer or ask whats the lowest they will go for you, I did and they knocked off $200.

I agree, Afer purchasing I almost immediately through the torch in the garbage. The foot pedal upgrade is almost a must as well.

I did the "make an offer" thing on their website and about 10 minutes on the phone with them they shipped it to my door with the cart for $1450

 

[theknurl]

Adam;
i agree with zkling about spark intensity i usually run a little lower ~30% (3 of 0-10).....if its different it got bumped

zkling;
get the wiring diagram from Miller the solenoid part number should be on the diagram (your machine should have come with a wiring diagram.....maybe thats why Millers are cheaper)
my welding mentor and the guys at the LWS said 'get the solenoid'
when i bought the machine

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Hey Guys

My Synchro 250 won't strike an arc in either AC, DC + or DC - positions when trying to fire up some 6013.
I did get the manual out and went over the settings, even the page where they talk about how to set up the controls for each application.

Anyone seen this before? Maybe someone has a service manual for the unit? I don't mind doing some diag - was hoping that maybe one of you guys had some suggestions as to where to start.

Adam

 

[zkling]

Does everything work for tig welding? I have a feeling it is something with the output contact selector. You do have it switched off remote right? Try unthreading the pedal connection. Amperage selector should be on panel, output contactor "on" and HF start off. Post a pic of your panel settings would be the quickest. If all settings are correct it is most likely something in the contact selector circuit... That is if the tig side works with the pedal. If you have no weld output in either tig or stick mode then you may have more serious problems.

No offense, but did you check your ground and stinger cable connections to make sure they are properly connected?

 

[theknurl]

Does everything work for tig welding? I have a feeling it is something with the output contact selector. You do have it switched off remote right? Try unthreading the pedal connection. Amperage selector should be on panel, output contactor "on" and HF start off. Post a pic of your panel settings would be the quickest. If all settings are correct it is most likely something in the contact selector circuit... That is if the tig side works with the pedal. If you have no weld output in either tig or stick mode then you may have more serious problems.

No offense, but did you check your ground and stinger cable connections to make sure they are properly connected?

+10
zkling nailed it, go over your settings

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

I don't have the TIG gear set up to try it
Tried the SMAW method this weekend and no dice
Power comes up, fan comes on.... nothing else does anything.
I will see what I can do to post a snapshot of the dashboard

Adam

 

[zkling]

I don't have the TIG gear set up to try it
Tried the SMAW method this weekend and no dice
Power comes up, fan comes on.... nothing else does anything.
I will see what I can do to post a snapshot of the dashboard

Adam

O, so you have never had it running since you got it? Ugh in that case you might be in for a surprise. Hope not. Are you sure it is wired correctly for the input voltage you have? You will have to pull the right side panel to check jumper location. After that disconnect everything including the remote then connect just a ground and the stinger and try to get it stick welding in both AC and DC.

 

[DenisG]

Hey Guys

My Synchro 250 won't strike an arc in either AC, DC + or DC - positions when trying to fire up some 6013.
I did get the manual out and went over the settings, even the page where they talk about how to set up the controls for each application.

Anyone seen this before? Maybe someone has a service manual for the unit? I don't mind doing some diag - was hoping that maybe one of you guys had some suggestions as to where to start.

Adam

Does this have jumpers inside the machine for different line voltages? If it does, you might want to double-check those.

 

[indianbullet]

tagged

 

[zkling]

Does this have jumpers inside the machine for different line voltages? If it does, you might want to double-check those.

Yes it does, hence my suggestion in the post above yours

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

I got my machine without a power cord
I bought some 6/4 and wired it up
The machine jumpers are set for 240 V single phase, and this is what I am feeding it with
When I turn it on, the fan kicks on.

Hummm......
The prior customer told me that he had a hard time getting the machine to strike an arc. He didn't have the ground cable connected; I thought that this was his problem. Hummmmm.....

HOPING that the switch is done that toggles between Remote and ON.... HOPING
Or unless you guys see a glaring error here?

Adam

 

[theknurl]

I don't think 'arc control' should be on...... but I'm not a Miller guy either

 

[zkling]

Your settings look good for AC stick welding. Try setting it up for tig and see if it will run with the contactor in the remote position. Hopefully it is just an issue with that.

I don't think 'arc control' should be on...... but I'm not a Miller guy either

It helps when stick welding to start the arc. It gives a boost of amperage. You can run stick with it on or off. TIG off always.

 

[DenisG]

Yes it does, hence my suggestion in the post above yours

Sorry, I didn't read carefully. You did say it.

Does the needle on the panel voltmeter swing to show the open circuit voltage? Check 10A fuses, F1 & F2?

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Hi Guys

I don't see any needle movement at all with this machine
I am in Stockton this week doing employee training for PG&E; I will check out your suggestions when I get home this weekend to Santa Rosa

Sure looking hard to find a problem other than a $ 532 circuit board!

Adam

 

[DenisG]

Hi Guys

I don't see any needle movement at all with this machine
I am in Stockton this week doing employee training for PG&E; I will check out your suggestions when I get home this weekend to Santa Rosa

Sure looking hard to find a problem other than a $ 532 circuit board!

Adam

In the picture the voltmeter needle seems to be negatively biased. It could be because it is only seeing the charge on the C20 cap. If it is a blown fuse or fuses, you will probably still need to find the original cause of the problem.

 

[zkling]

The volt and amp meters show running arc current and voltage taken at the output studs while the machine is producing an arc.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

That explains why my meters don't wiggle; I can't get an arc started. Machine just seems to turn on the fan and thats it.
I will check it out Friday night when I get home - hope that the problem is something simple and easy.

I wish that I could find a service manual on this thing..... I took EE in college, specialized in Radio Frequency but studied enough DC and AC circuits to have a good feeling for where to start.

Adam

 

[zkling]

That explains why my meters don't wiggle; I can't get an arc started. Machine just seems to turn on the fan and thats it.
I will check it out Friday night when I get home - hope that the problem is something simple and easy.

I wish that I could find a service manual on this thing..... I took EE in college, specialized in Radio Frequency but studied enough DC and AC circuits to have a good feeling for where to start.

Adam

Download a manual applicable to your specific serial number unit (search on the miller site via serial number). It will have schematics in it. They are a pretty simple machine.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

So... I think that I may have found an obvious problem with the machine that I have
See here on PC-1

Here is another view:

Now.... The circuit board description does not match the one shown in the manual for my serial number

But...... As I google around, I seem to gather that the blown unit, R 120 is a 393 O 1/4 W unit
I plan on swapping this piece later tonight, hope that this solves or helps the problem. Has anyone here done any component level work on these unit?

Adam

 

[Guster]

Nothing lost by replacing the resistor. Main concern would be that another component may have blown and in the case of IC's hard to tell without replacing. Worse yet if something like a bad transformer winding took the resister out it will just keep happening.

User named Macona on http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/ and some other forums that has quite a bit of knowledge of these units and may be able to advise further.

 

[VDubJoe]

I found an old Lincoln 300/300 on CL for 400.00 came with a watercooler and new finger control. It's what I learned on ( ie still learning on ). Use it a lot for stick welding to.

Joe

 

[DenisG]

So... I think that I may have found an obvious problem with the machine that I have
See here on PC-1

Here is another view:

Now.... The circuit board description does not match the one shown in the manual for my serial number

But...... As I google around, I seem to gather that the blown unit, R 120 is a 393 O 1/4 W unit
I plan on swapping this piece later tonight, hope that this solves or helps the problem. Has anyone here done any component level work on these unit?

Adam

I haven't done any component level work on these (just a hacker), so you can take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I found a schematic for the PC1 board, but without a complete component list. R120 feeds pin 6 of an op amp input (from the pictures that you took -- LF347N -- quad op amp chip). I'd find that chip (A1 on the schematic) and check to see if pins 5 & 6 are shorted (mostly the cause of R120 burning out). Replace that chip as well as the resistor.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Thank you Dennis and others!!

I ordered the replacement Op Amp from Mouser; should be at the house by mid week. My old work produces high end electronics for Musicians; I have a friend whom works in the development department and I think I may be able to talk him into giving this a stab.

If this doesn't work, I am only out $ 10 and some change.

Thank you guys again for the help and feedback! I should have a follow up report by the end of the week.

Adam

 

[DenisG]

Thank you Dennis and others!!

I ordered the replacement Op Amp from Mouser; should be at the house by mid week. My old work produces high end electronics for Musicians; I have a friend whom works in the development department and I think I may be able to talk him into giving this a stab.

If this doesn't work, I am only out $ 10 and some change.

Thank you guys again for the help and feedback! I should have a follow up report by the end of the week.

Adam

Afterthoughts -- Also check the board traces for shorts or defects and you should also check the voltage on the input line to that op amp (datasheet says Vcc= ~20V) -- Make sure you're not seeing something like line voltage 120-240V on the feed, just in case the real problem is elsewhere.

 

[mr overdunne]

Synchrowave 200 here. Selling that soon and spending the scratch on a dynasty. Ugh.

 

[ckpitt55]

i just bought the htp invertig 221H. extremely pleased with it so far. granted that I'm new to tig welding, i don't really see myself ever needing to upgrade.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Hey Denis....

When in DC + or DC - mode, I can see .000 V on either side of the burned resistor when measured against ground on my Fluke 88. My fluke sees .127 VAC on this pin when in either DC + or DC - mode.

When I put the machine in AC mode, I see O/L in the VAC measurement mode on my Fluke 88 ?
Hummmm I see -.050 VDC on either side of that resistor as well.

Wonder why the fluke says O/L in VAC measurement method when looking at either side of that resistor and the machine is in AC mode?

Hummmmmm I do see that I have PCB P/N 132 887 KA5.
I'm still tinkering. Mouser got their parts to me today. Tomorrow I will swap and see what happens. In the mean time I will do more tinkering and measuring to find out if the problem is elsewhere.

Adam

 

[66dave]

Adam-
Make sure your fluke is auto ranging, that could be why it is reading OL (overload).

BTW nice job on the welder.

 

[DenisG]

Hey Denis....

When in DC + or DC - mode, I can see .000 V on either side of the burned resistor when measured against ground on my Fluke 88. My fluke sees .127 VAC on this pin when in either DC + or DC - mode.

When I put the machine in AC mode, I see O/L in the VAC measurement mode on my Fluke 88 ?
Hummmm I see -.050 VDC on either side of that resistor as well.

Wonder why the fluke says O/L in VAC measurement method when looking at either side of that resistor and the machine is in AC mode?

Hummmmmm I do see that I have PCB P/N 132 887 KA5.
I'm still tinkering. Mouser got their parts to me today. Tomorrow I will swap and see what happens. In the mean time I will do more tinkering and measuring to find out if the problem is elsewhere.

Adam

I'm not sure what your meter is doing. Did you cut through the burnt out resistor to make sure it is completely open (before making your voltage measurement)? Did you check to see if there is a short through pins 5&6 on the chip with no power on (LF347N)?

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Hi Dennis et al

With the circuit board out of the machine and on the desk;

Pins 5-6 show 3.065 kO when measured in the circuit. 9 AM PST I will pull the IC, measure the resistance, and then swap it out.

I have not yet cut out the R 120; will do in the next few hours to measure. Measuring across the end points when in the circuit I see 60 O. That resistor is supposed to be 393 O; I had always thought that when they burn up that they burn open ??

Using this schematic:
http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o353b_mil.pdf

When I do the AC measurements from the line filter on the chassis to the board.....

I see NOTHING when measured at J1 and J2 when in AC mode, but from either J1 or J2 to ground I see about 35 VAC.

I am going to pull that resistor and that IC this morning, see what I can find out from this detective work.

Adam

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Hi Everyone!
Not trying to chain post, but I did make some progress today.

Swapped that bad resistor, and installed a fresh IC with an IC socket for easy testing. My friend whom did the work tells me that the 1/4 W resistor that was in there seems to have broken off a lead on one of the side 'cups' that are attached to the body, and conducted through to another path.

Installed fresh parts and cleaned the area of the trace. Reinstalled the PCB to find that the current meter goes to full field on the front of the unit now, but I still can't get an arc to strike in SMAW mode.

Hummmmmmm
Well, at least it has SOME signs of life.

Anyone seen this before? Meter full - field but no arc gets started?

Adam

 

[Jon Jacobs]

Save your pennies and buy new, I went with the Miller Synchrowaye. Hands down the best welder Ive ever used. The miller migs are so well engineered they make any user look like a pro.

 

[DenisG]

Hi Everyone!
Not trying to chain post, but I did make some progress today.

Swapped that bad resistor, and installed a fresh IC with an IC socket for easy testing. My friend whom did the work tells me that the 1/4 W resistor that was in there seems to have broken off a lead on one of the side 'cups' that are attached to the body, and conducted through to another path.

Installed fresh parts and cleaned the area of the trace. Reinstalled the PCB to find that the current meter goes to full field on the front of the unit now, but I still can't get an arc to strike in SMAW mode.

Hummmmmmm
Well, at least it has SOME signs of life.

Anyone seen this before? Meter full - field but no arc gets started?

Adam

I would have expected the voltage meter to swing to show the open circuit voltage (OCV). The current meter should measure the current while welding. It seems to be acting as if there is a dead short. Does the cooling fan come on? Is it possible that S4 (on the circuit diagram) is shorted (arc-ed over)? Maybe someone switched the machine while running full power?

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Hi Dennis et al,

Plug in the machine, turn it on.
The cooling fan comes on right away. Whenever that switch it on, the fan is on.
Current meter wiggles up, becomes alive, and then goes full field without any arc being struck.
Toggling any switch or knob on the front dash does not change any behavior of anything anywhere.

I can turn the big switch, S4, while the machine is on and no change is made. The machine does not strike an arc in any position, and the current meter is in full field mode through any position of S4. I have the covers off and can see through the S4 switch, I don't see anything obviously wrong.

I don't know anything about its history, hence I cannot guess what happened in the past regarding a hot switch.
What I would really love to see is a service manual; something that shows you should have VDC here when in this position, you should have VAC here when in another position, etc. etc.

Ever work on a Heathkit product? )

It is a head scratcher!

Adam

 

[DenisG]

Hi Dennis et al,

Plug in the machine, turn it on.
The cooling fan comes on right away. Whenever that switch it on, the fan is on.
Current meter wiggles up, becomes alive, and then goes full field without any arc being struck.
Toggling any switch or knob on the front dash does not change any behavior of anything anywhere.

I can turn the big switch, S4, while the machine is on and no change is made. The machine does not strike an arc in any position, and the current meter is in full field mode through any position of S4. I have the covers off and can see through the S4 switch, I don't see anything obviously wrong.

I don't know anything about its history, hence I cannot guess what happened in the past regarding a hot switch.
What I would really love to see is a service manual; something that shows you should have VDC here when in this position, you should have VAC here when in another position, etc. etc.

Ever work on a Heathkit product? )

It is a head scratcher!

Adam

There's a technical manual with test point voltages here:
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/467088/Miller-Electric-Syncrowave-250.html

Check R1 on the schematic (amperage control pot)? Maybe the wiper is burnt?

Other test that come to mind - check lines from the transformer with a clamp-on ammeter to see if actual current if flowing from the transformer. That might help find if there is an internal short somewhere (although you would be generating a bit of heat). You can also check SCRs (like you can diodes) with a multimeter (although switching between AC and DC would seem to eliminate one or the other as the cause of the problem).

You have a curious puzzle on your hands.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Checked the current control pot. Found that it is about 1 K Ohm across the outside terminals, and yes, the wiper smoothly scales between 0 and 1 K as you spin it. With the dial on the far left, I see 0 Ohm and at full scale I am at 1 K Ohm.

I don't hear any transformer grunt when I switch it on OR try to weld something.
I will get my clamp on Ammeter back from my B.I.L. and then see what I can sniff out with that tool.

This is a headscratcher, I agree.
I wonder if there is another problem somewhere else in the PCB that I have not yet seen?

Thank you for the link to the manual; once I blow through the A/C job that I have to do this morning, I will start walking down that path. There aren't THAT many parts in this machine to begin with!

Adam

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

WELL
After discussing the topic with you all, about eight people at Miller, and my old welding instructor.... I bought the update kit from Miller 4 Less and it showed up today

MIGHT get the install started today, if not, Saturday will work.
I am very interested to see how this plays out.

$ 599 from Miller 4 Less