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c. 1980 U.S. Army GMTK Outlines

d42jeep

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Thanks for the correction. We strive for accuracy. :thumbup: Since it's your thread, please list some more difficult to find GMTK tools.
-Don
 
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Private Lugnutz

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I was kind of hoping to keep this focused on the 1980 sets shown in the inspection layouts, to be honest! Hoping the 80's collectors would be posting examples and we can follow their lead. (But maybe there aren't any 80's guys! :lol:)

"Difficult to find" is subjective. I don't shop on eBay, and some of the tools I think are uncommon on the flea market circuit often seem just a few clicks away for the eBay guys. But here are a few I consider hard to find...

- Drag link bits (47/64", 15/16", 1-3/16")
- Electrician's (or "cabinet") screwdrivers (2-1/2" and 5-1/2" shanks)
- Brass drift (1" x 7" or 3/4" x 10")
- Hacksaw blades (hard, 12" x 24 TPI)
- 3-square file (8" *******)
- Long 15* angle pattern DBE wrench (11/16" x 3/4")
 

misterbill

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I was kind of hoping to keep this focused on the 1980 sets shown in the inspection layouts, to be honest! Hoping the 80's collectors would be posting examples and we can follow their lead. (But maybe there aren't any 80's guys! :lol:)

So, barring any visual evidence, can any of the gentlemen that worked in the motorpool (during the 70s/80s) provide any recollections of the brands they remember using? Don't worry Lugz, we'll work backwards into it!

Bill
 

brianh

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I was a 63b in the 80s I remember laying them out when we would get a new CO for inventory. We had a mix in our boxes I remember KAL tools mostly, and our tool room had some Snap On.
 

notlob

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"Difficult to find" is subjective. But here are a few I consider hard to find...

- Drag link bits (47/64", 15/16", 1-3/16")
- Electrician's (or "cabinet") screwdrivers (2-1/2" and 5-1/2" shanks)
- Brass drift (1" x 7" or 3/4" x 10")
- Hacksaw blades (hard, 12" x 24 TPI)
- 3-square file (8" *******)
- Long 15* angle pattern DBE wrench (11/16" x 3/4")

I have vintage examples of most, if not all, of the above list (lots of hacksaw blades and 3 square files in particular.) How do I know which specific tools are the correct military versions?

For example - Is this extremely heavy duty HD Smith perfect handle screwdriver a correct military example?

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notlob

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Here's the flip side with some sort of US stamping

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Private Lugnutz

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Don't worry Lugz, we'll work backwards into it!
I have this image in my head of miniature versions of you and Don standing on each of my shoulders. Don is the angel calling me back to the light (WWII), and you are the devil egging me on to the dark side (the 1980 sets)! :lol:

I recall some Easco, either ratchets or wrenches.
Thanks for this, MMM.

We had a mix in our boxes I remember KAL tools mostly, and our tool room had some Snap On.
Thanks, brian.

I have vintage examples of most, if not all, of the above list (lots of hacksaw blades and 3 square files in particular.) How do I know which specific tools are the correct military versions?
As in all collectible toolkits, that’s the $64,000 question, notlob. And just like other toolkits from other eras, the answer is pretty much the same. That is, physical features and mfgrs', brand, and model markings. That's a knowledge base that a small group of us have developed over time for each tool (qty ~115) in the GMTK. It includes federal specifications, technical manuals, sites like AA and now TA, catalogs, and lots of industry research, with the goal of identifying the verified suppliers and what their tools looked like. It sounds like a brush off, but it really can’t be summarized in a post let alone a thread. It's not at all an exaggeration that we have hundreds of threads going exploring the subject. Best place to start is a sort of index of links or 'guide to the guides' "stickie" on G503 here.

notlob said:
For example - Is this extremely heavy duty HD Smith perfect handle screwdriver a correct military example?
Here's the flip side with some sort of US stamping
That’s a great example. It is probably the correct specs for the extra heavy duty machinists’ screwdriver (5” blade – the total length is typically about 9-1/2”), but it’s too early. H.D. Smith was out of business before WWII. IRWIN, Tobrin, and Federal have been verified as WWII-era US Army Ordnance Dept suppliers. That "US" stamp is almost certainly martial, giving it more provenance than most WWII specimens (I have a WWII example with an Ordnance Dept "TAXI" number embossed in it), but I suspect your gorgeous and impeccable example is WWI or interwar. I don't know what tool-set (the concept of a "GTMK" did not exist until 1938), but there were EHD machinists' screwdrivers in other sets, including, among the specialists' tool-sets, the machinist's and the carburetor mechanic's. They could also be found in sets associated with caissons for pulling various guns.
 
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Private Lugnutz

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No problem.

At the risk of looking like a shill, I will mention that a few years ago I developed a flea market guide (more like a "cheat sheet" I guess) to collecting the WWII GMTK. It is the size of a GMTK toolbox, folds up, and it's covered in a clear laminate. Inspired in part by the kinds of tool silhouettes at the top of this thread, it includes an actual size outline of every tool in a wartime GTMK, with some key specs and timeline info (if pertinent), along with a condensed list of verified suppliers, with as much abbreviated mfgr and model marking tips and cues as I could cram in next to each mfgrs' name.

Link here for more info, even if you're just curious to see how I did it! :)

Here're a couple photos to better visualize the concept...

IMG_3469_zpse3ed66ba.jpg


IMG_3466_zps0e548077.jpg
 
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Duckfarmer27

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So, barring any visual evidence, can any of the gentlemen that worked in the motorpool (during the 70s/80s) provide any recollections of the brands they remember using? Don't worry Lugz, we'll work backwards into it!

Bill

Bill -
My active duty was 72-74, then Guard and Reserve until 2003. Think I have mentioned some of this before. Then, at tail end of Nam, only thing accountable was the actual tool box. My first platoon I had something like 65 of those with more than 45 of them just empty boxes. There just was no accountability in those days - at least where I was, Fort Hood.

As far as brands, I can remember about any you can think of. We had a credit card and the Platoon Sergeant and I could go buy something like $50 worth of tools a quarter to replace missing or lost items. This was in a self service supply - and I can remember seeing SK, Craftsman, Proto, Snap On, etc. But then there was also the no-name - or at least I can't remember if there was a name on some sockets. Picked up one for one of my guys on one of our runs. He was working under a deuce so I put the socket (seems like it was a 9/16 - now don't ask me why I think I remember the size 46 years later) on the fender. He was happy as could be to finally get that socket. Came out from under the truck and happened to knock it onto the floor - I was standing maybe 4 feet to the side. Socket broke into pieces just hitting the floor. I can't remember any name on it, but it was marked 'Spain' as country of origin. So as far as I'm concerned, you could put most anything you could find in one of those sets and argue as to it being correct!

As others have said there were other sets. Armorers, for instance, had a quite different set - as did typewriter repair MOS, etc. And the Master Mechanics box was coveted - think I had 5 or 6 of those. Think a top chest with additional tools. And in the tool room the Number 1 Common, Number 2, the supplementals to those, etc. First outfit I was in was a Light Direct Support Maintenance Company - we could fix anything with wheels, generators, office equipment, light weapons, glass, body work and were the parts store for supported units. Our battalion could literally fix anything the Army had - including missles, aircraft, artillery, tanks, radios, canvas, engineer equipment - and also set up rebuild lines for engines, etc (although we never did that). Also ran the post junk yard - which could be real interesting. We had machine shops, etc, etc. Probably every tool kit in the Army except for medical equipment, ammunition and nuclear weapons.

Been a while since I thought of all that equipment.

Lugz - Have you ever come across a SC for the WW2 mobile machine shops that were truck mounted? I've been searching for them on and off for 3 years with no luck. Even the Ordnance and Quartermaster Museums do not have copies. I acquired a metal lathe that is in excellent shape and almost totally complete that started life in one of those trucks in January of 1945. Just trying to figure out what is missing from the drawers that were fitted with French cutouts in plywood. Currently refurbishing the lathe.

Dale
 
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d42jeep

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No problem.

At the risk of looking like a shill, I will mention that a few years ago I developed a flea market guide (more like a "cheat sheet" I guess) to collecting the WWII GMTK. It is the size of a GMTK toolbox, folds up, and it's covered in a clear laminate. Inspired in part by the kinds of tool silhouettes at the top of this thread, it includes an actual size outline of every tool in a wartime GTMK, with some key specs and timeline info (if pertinent), along with a condensed list of verified suppliers, with as much abbreviated mfgr and model marking tips and cues as I could cram in next to each mfgrs' name.

Link here for more info, even if you're just curious to see how I did it! :)

Here're a couple photos to better visualize the concept...

IMG_3469_zpse3ed66ba.jpg


IMG_3466_zps0e548077.jpg

There is one of those in my flea market bag that I am never without at a sale! Incredibly useful for finding tools for a GMTK. :thumbup:
-Don
 

d42jeep

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I have vintage examples of most, if not all, of the above list (lots of hacksaw blades and 3 square files in particular.) How do I know which specific tools are the correct military versions?

For example - Is this extremely heavy duty HD Smith perfect handle screwdriver a correct military example?

attachment.php

BB,
Another useful tool for identifying WW2 correct tools is Twertsy's Tool Archives site. In the GMTK section there are correct examples pictured for almost every GMTK tool. Here is a link to the extra heavy duty screwdriver.
http://www.toolarchives.com/41-S-1385
-Don
 

Bockscar

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BB,
Another useful tool for identifying WW2 correct tools is Twertsy's Tool Archives site. In the GMTK section there are correct examples pictured for almost every GMTK tool. Here is a link to the extra heavy duty screwdriver.
http://www.toolarchives.com/41-S-1385
-Don
I have this screw driver....I was always curious about.....has no visable markings other than drop forged and a 2..... a question about wood screw drivers how can you tell the manufacturer if there are no visable markings if possible 7e615472e9687cb6d232698d221d0b19.jpg88183943160870e2892788c2e46363ee.jpg36112b6248f6e7d2994896345628fff3.jpg

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Private Lugnutz

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...has no visable markings other than drop forged and a 2.....
I don't recognize those markings, Bockscar.

Bockscar said:
how can you tell the manufacturer if there are no visable markings
Most of the vintage so-called "perfect handle" screwdrivers are marked on the shank, handle, or both. H.D. Smith patented it. Later, IRWIN, Tobrin, Federal and others appropriated it.

Wartime IRWIN and Federal were only ink-stamped on the handle, with no markings on the shanks. And the stamps do wear off.

Wartime Tobrin are also ink-stamped on the handle with a blade size (e.g., "6") in a triangle forged-in on the tip, nothing on the shank. Those marked "TOBRIN" in a barberpole style roll stamping wrapped around the shank and a size on the tip are probably post-war.

Postwar IRWIN's will be marked with some variation of IRWIN and the COO on the shank. An 11" (6" blade) IRWIN with a Gov Stock # on it is 1950-1952. They were put in the KW-era Willys M38 jeep toolkit.

These screwdrivers were made for a long time into the modern era with the same exact design and construction. Those are typically marked.
 

Ole Slewfoot

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I think J.J. Ryan Tool Works deserves a mention here to, they bought the rights, and possibly dies for screwdrivers from H.D. Smith. I guessing on the tooling, but their factory was across the street, and many seem indistinguishable aside form the stamping.
this 1940s catalog makes repeated mention of meeting government specifications, and I know they have been a military supplier, but not sure when.
 
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Private Lugnutz

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Thanks for the link. J.J. Ryan is a verified WWII supplier, Slew. I have never seen a vintage perfect handle screwdriver with a RYAN stamp though. I have seen punches and chisels. Where do you see a date on the catalog? Are you dating it from the tools? Or did the sources of the PDF say it was 40's?
 

Ole Slewfoot

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