cable stuck in burried conduit

[kaffine]

To give an update safety said I am not allowed to do the work.

Well we checked with the O&M contractor for that facility and they said they really didn't want to try and clear the conduit and if we were willing to try they would not file a complaint against my group for doing the work.

So I presented a few options and management gave me the ok. Then our safety department got involved. Apparently I am not qualified to operate an air compressor and they didn't like my other suggestions either. Trying to see what I have to do to be qualified to operate an air compressor. I guess the fact that I used to repair pneumatic systems for a living doesn't matter.

Now we are trying to get the O&M contractor to do the work but we can't remove some of the equipment so they have access to do the work until safety signs off on us using a tripod hoist. Safety is saying I need rigging training and have to prove I can setup a 15 ton lift using a mobile crane. It requires at least 3 people to do the lift I need someone qualified as a master rigger, a rigging engineer, and a crane operator. I need to lift a 150 pound assembly using a tripod hoist with a chain fall and the item I am lifting has a factory installed lift point (item is to awkward to lift without a hoist or I would).

I am really hopping they send me to school for rigging as I could use more training with how much heavy stuff I keep adding to my home shop.

If I am still working here when it gets done I will provide another update.

 

[fabjunkie]

Sounds like a union gig to me. You need 15 guys to do the job of one, none of which actually do anything.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

If its actual rigid steel conduit Id just start digging a new trench and put pvc back in there and pull new wire.
If the steel pipe is full of water theres a reason.

Even PVC conduit will get water in it from condensation, which is why it is listed as a wet location and any cables in it must be rated as such. Primer is not required on PVC conduit because water will get into it anyway, so a watertight connection would be unnecessary.

Still better than steel though, which will rust out eventually.

 

[R.Anderson]

To give an update safety said I am not allowed to do the work.

Well we checked with the O&M contractor for that facility and they said they really didn't want to try and clear the conduit and if we were willing to try they would not file a complaint against my group for doing the work.

So I presented a few options and management gave me the ok. Then our safety department got involved. Apparently I am not qualified to operate an air compressor and they didn't like my other suggestions either. Trying to see what I have to do to be qualified to operate an air compressor. I guess the fact that I used to repair pneumatic systems for a living doesn't matter.

Now we are trying to get the O&M contractor to do the work but we can't remove some of the equipment so they have access to do the work until safety signs off on us using a tripod hoist. Safety is saying I need rigging training and have to prove I can setup a 15 ton lift using a mobile crane. It requires at least 3 people to do the lift I need someone qualified as a master rigger, a rigging engineer, and a crane operator. I need to lift a 150 pound assembly using a tripod hoist with a chain fall and the item I am lifting has a factory installed lift point (item is to awkward to lift without a hoist or I would).

I am really hopping they send me to school for rigging as I could use more training with how much heavy stuff I keep adding to my home shop.

If I am still working here when it gets done I will provide another update.

Safety is saying you need to setup for a 15ton lift to lift a 150lb assembly?

What type of plant is this?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Even PVC conduit will get water in it from condensation, which is why it is listed as a wet location and any cables in it must be rated as such. Primer is not required on PVC conduit because water will get into it anyway, so a watertight connection would be unnecessary.

Still better than steel though, which will rust out eventually.

And my money would be on rust.

 

[Rookie2]

Thanks for the update ! Looking forward to seeing this all on video at your retirement party , Three fat union guys with 5 point harnesses handing a private citizen a Gold watch. lol

 

[Cmreschke]

Union has nothing to do with this. I've worked at predominantly non union chemical plants in michigan, same scenarios as the op is talking about as well with safety and what not.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Sounds like a union gig to me. You need 15 guys to do the job of one, none of which actually do anything.

I'll put my "union" crew at the school district against almost any non union contractor in the same trades any day of the week. That being said, they all have their own companies that are NOT union.

I have been in and out of unions for my entire career. My experience on the trades around here is that union employees primarily have superior training. Most perform work of superior quality. They have a much better work ethic, dependability, attendance/tardiness records. Is the pay scale generally higher? You bet. Is it worth it in the long run? Almost always. I will not argue that there are some low quality union contractors, too.

Don't get me wrong, there are LOADS of non-union contractors I happily deal with, but all bid work in the schools must be Prevailing Wage and many of the non-union contractors just will not do it because it cuts into their profit margin.

It seems all the "union guys move too slow/complacent/lazy/don't do anything/are overpayed" mentality is usually voiced by people who have seen in-house union employees where the unions have shmoozed over-the-top contracts from the employers. That's what allowed the employees to get that way in the first place. The issues with GM/Chrysler and the UAW come to mind.

I've only met one or two tradesmen "from the hall" that had a performance/skill or attendance issue and they were usually told they would not be needed on the jobsite the next day. Tradesmen working out of the union hall pretty much have to perform. The hall is like Darwinism. The strongest survive. Even though there is not supposed to be any favoratism or "blacklisting" between Journeymen, (IE a Journeyman is a Journeyman. They are supposed to all be of equal skill), if you don't live up to the pay scale, the word does somehow get back to the BA that you're not really productive on the jobsite and you sit at the hall without work. Eventually those guys move on just to get a job.


Tommy

 

[rockwithjason]

I am familiar with the area he is working in and the problem ain't union, it's federal government. back in the 2000's the agency in charge decided that no accident was acceptable and anything that broke or bruised the skin was a reportable accident. I once had to drive 45 minutes one way to get a band aid, that is how silly that place is.

 

[CNGsaves]

Are there any ALIENS buried in the soil there that Gubmt is afraid of disturbing ??

 

[kaffine]

Safety is saying you need to setup for a 15ton lift to lift a 150lb assembly?

What type of plant is this?

No safety is saying I have to be certified for hoisting operations. Getting certified requires I demonstrate my ability by performing a 15 ton lift. After I get certified then I can treat the actual lift I need to do as a 150 pound lift. There is also talk about needing to get a mobile crane operators license, I think that is because they use a mobile crane for the 15 ton lift.

 

[kaffine]

It is not a union issue. The union found a loophole to let us do the work. This is our safety culture that is the issue. Basically our safety has found out the best way to insure there are no accidents is to insure no one does any work. I keep saying we need to multiply our accident rate that is based on man hours by 100 as it takes us that much longer to get anything done.

 

[md21722]

Also keep in mind if the safety department didn't object, someone may decide they don't need the same size safety department anymore. The amount of bureaucracy in the workplace today is staggering. Years ago they could build a road on the side of a mountain over the summer. Today the environmental study would take years.

 

[Nick Danger]

Can you hire outside contractors who have their own safety regime? They provide the expertise, equipment, and trained operators. You provide the paycheck.

Since Kaffine is being deliberately vague about where he works, I'm going to pretend it's Pepcon. That's why everyone there has to be extra safety-conscious.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Also keep in mind if the safety department didn't object, someone may decide they don't need the same size safety department anymore. The amount of bureaucracy in the workplace today is staggering. Years ago they could build a road on the side of a mountain over the summer. Today the environmental study would take years.

 

[kaffine]

Can you hire outside contractors who have their own safety regime? They provide the expertise, equipment, and trained operators. You provide the paycheck.

Since Kaffine is being deliberately vague about where he works, I'm going to pretend it's Pepcon. That's why everyone there has to be extra safety-conscious.

If we bring in outside contractors they still have to follow the facilities safety regime. Last time they tried to bring an outside contractor in to do work it was going to require them to attend over a week of safety classes and take 3 months to complete because they don't offer all of the classes at once so it would be a day here and half a day there spread out over several months.

 

[Git]

Since Kaffine is being deliberately vague about where he works, I'm going to pretend it's Pepcon. That's why everyone there has to be extra safety-conscious.

hmmmmm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEPCON_disaster

 

[md21722]

Can you hire outside contractors who have their own safety regime? They provide the expertise, equipment, and trained operators. You provide the paycheck.

Since Kaffine is being deliberately vague about where he works, I'm going to pretend it's Pepcon. That's why everyone there has to be extra safety-conscious.

Pepcon renamed & moved up the road to Utah some years ago...

 

[sberry]

I am sure he has reasons, if it's contaminated hand digging may be an issue or ground can't be dug, cemented in etc. If it was cluttered may need to be shoveled.

 

[jdieter]

Well to get back to the stuck wire, if I were in your spot, first thing is to determine if the conduit is open either by pressure or vacuum. If it isn't check my last sentence. If you determine the conduit is open I would run a 100' metal tape in the conduit as far as I could, then start rotating the tape so it spirals around the control cable. When you pull the tape out if the cable breaks chance are it was never coming out complete anyway. If it breaks do the same procedure at the other end of the conduit and check the length on the cable pulled out vs the entire run so you know if there is still cable left in the conduit. Of course on your first pull you'll attach a pull string in case you're fortunate enough for the cable to come out complete. If you have wire left in the conduit from everything you've stated you're screwed start looking at a wireless/rf solution.

 

[shawhite]

I agree with jdieter find a wireless solution. I pull underground cable for a living. if this was my job I would locate route of cable. Push stiff rodder in next to cable tape rod where it stopped pull out lay along cable route and mark spot on ground. Repeat from other end. You have a damaged section of pipe or a junction box where your cable is making a hard 90. Dig it up and find/fix the problem. All of this has been listed several times above but it seems you have chosen not to take this route. Maybe I'm missed why. using a compressor to clear the obstruction usually makes a mess. All the water/mud have to go somewhere. Usually back in your face with a blocked duct

 

[rockwithjason]

there are security concerns that will probably rule out wireless solutions.

 

[Broken Tool]

It is a 12Vdc power circuit.

I'm jumping into this late but here is an off the wall suggestion. Can you buy an industrial 12 volt supply and place it close to the equipment that needs it? Power it with a nearby 120 volt outlet. A 120 foot run of 18 gauge is a little long for 12 volt circuit any way.

 

[chops101]

I have nothing to add that hasn't already been stated, but I have learned what nettles are this week and a whole lot about Pepcon. That little google tangent cost me an hour already...there are some loooong youtube's on that.

 

[kaffine]

Safety has said no wireless transmitters allowed in the area. No 120V power nearby either.

My guess is they will wait until it fails then panic and tell me to do whatever it takes but get it fixed and approve OT for the weekend when safety isn't around.

 

[Astro-t]

I was told by a few older fellow workers that pouring coke cola down the pipe sometimes loosens stuck wire in pipes. Never tried but what do you got to loose

 

[sberry]

I would have to say a test site is the place, their own rules and ways of doing things.

 

[kaffine]

Well we finally got the cable out of the conduit. We ended up having to pay to have a contractor blow the conduit out with a large air compressor (175cfm).

One cable finally freed up just from having cable lube poured into the conduit for the past few months. The others required compressed air to blow mud out of the conduit before the cable came out. We got a good 20 foot geyser of mud and water out of the conduit.

While I am happy it worked and we got the cable out I am now even more pissed at management and our safety department and the safety department for the contractor for all the BS it took to do it. Time for me to find another job finally had it with the BS here.

Thank you for the help.

 

[ard]

I would blow my brains out at that job.

Good luck with your search.

 

[FullRaceMerc]

Congrats on getting it out! Thanks for the update.

 

[Brian_WK]

Damn I was going to suggest hard piping a power washer up to the pipe and standing behind a piece of bulletproof glass, filming it of course, Myth Busters style! It would probably expand the the conduit as well making for a easier next pull. Damn safety dept!

Brian

PS: please no one take this seriously and try it.
PPS: but if you do record it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Even PVC conduit will get water in it from condensation, which is why it is listed as a wet location and any cables in it must be rated as such. Primer is not required on PVC conduit because water will get into it anyway, so a watertight connection would be unnecessary.

Still better than steel though, which will rust out eventually.

Primer should be used on pressurized PVC.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Whatever that company is, I bet you could just spend full time going to safety & training and never do any actual real work for at least a decade or more... lol

 

[bczygan]

Work related?

Screw it. Who cares how it gets done.

If it costs them 100K, great.

I wouldn't even worry about it. Just tell them you couldn't get it. Now it's their turn. Tell them to outsource it. I wouldn't want anything to do with something like this, that could go wrong.

Oh, I see that's what ended up happening!

Bill

 

[kaffine]

Whatever that company is, I bet you could just spend full time going to safety & training and never do any actual real work for at least a decade or more... lol

Actually it is only a years worth of training, of course the training is only valid for a year so then you have to start taking them over again. It is all part of their Work-Free safety zone culture.

Unfortunately they decided I didn't need to get a mobile crane operators license or rigging training. They decided I could be trained on just that specific hoist. However first I had to show them how to use it so they could train me. They did take me on a tour of all the cranes they have that we can rent instead of using our hoist however when I started asking questions about if we would actually be allowed to use the cranes they said no we would have to pay for one of their operators, a rigging supervisor, and a rigging engineer, and I think 2 more people and 2 hours of the secretaries time for filling out all the paperwork.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

wow sounds like too much red tape at that company.

It a wonder that they get anything done.

Time to fire the chiefs and bring in some new blood

 

[kaffine]

Work related?

Screw it. Who cares how it gets done.

If it costs them 100K, great.

I wouldn't even worry about it. Just tell them you couldn't get it. Now it's their turn. Tell them to outsource it. I wouldn't want anything to do with something like this, that could go wrong.

Oh, I see that's what ended up happening!

Bill

Well if the company goes bankrupt I'm out of a job. Even though there are times I don't like working there I still prefer to have a job and paycheck to being out of work.

I got to the position I am in because I am willing to take risks. Plus it is fun, I like pushing limits. If I didn't take risks I would just do the PM's and be bored all day oh and not make as much money.

 

[Radix2]

Well if the company goes bankrupt I'm out of a job. Even though there are times I don't like working there I still prefer to have a job and paycheck to being out of work.

I got to the position I am in because I am willing to take risks. Plus it is fun, I like pushing limits. If I didn't take risks I would just do the PM's and be bored all day oh and not make as much money.

Good attitude.. I call it the path of least resistance to success-

If I gotta get up, I might as well go to work .

If I gotta go to work, I might as well do something interesting.

If I find something tough and interesting to do, work is fun.

If work is fun, it is easier to get up....

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . .. glad to hear that "mgmt" took the baby step to blow the conduit out with air !!

Now when you finally get too frustrated and change jobs, let us GJer's know what Alien Life Form is stored in the box at end of that conduit !!