Can I make 220 from 110?

[homemade1487]

Can I make 220 from 110? I am kinda thinking not.

We have a generator trailer that runs our crushing equipment. When the generator is not running we can plug the trailer into a regular 110 wall outlet and provide us with lighting and basic hand power tools.

We have an electric wall heater that is 220 and am wondering if I can somehow rewire the incoming feed from the 110 shore power and power the heater. I'm assuming I cannot split the one hot lead and make two for the 220?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sld961]

You can't "make 220 from 110". But you can check your generator and see if it has a 220v output.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[APEowner]

A step-up transformer will do that. It's some what inefficient and a transformer that'll handle the load of that heater will be a bit pricy but it can be done.

 

[ishiboo]

Can I make 220 from 110? I am kinda thinking not.

We have a generator trailer that runs our crushing equipment. When the generator is not running we can plug the trailer into a regular 110 wall outlet and provide us with lighting and basic hand power tools.

We have an electric wall heater that is 220 and am wondering if I can somehow rewire the incoming feed from the 110 shore power and power the heater. I'm assuming I cannot split the one hot lead and make two for the 220?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, you can... with a step-up transformer.

But, 240v stuff is usually 240v because it takes a lot of power to run. The heater could easily be too much for a 20A circuit. It may work on a 30A circuit, but once you rewire you're better off changing the whole thing over to 240v.

Watts = voltage * amperage. So a 5000W heater would take 21A at 240V, but 42A at 120V!

 

[homemade1487]

The generator itself has got to be 100kvw. I'm not sure the exact size but it is ran with a 12 liter cummins. And puts out 480 3phase. We have a phase converter to run the lights and so on when the gen set is running but this is for when we have it in the shop and just plugged into shore power.

I didn't think it was as easy as tying two hots onto one. I'm not going to spend the money on a transformer. I do have some 4 wire extension cord that I will wire direct from one panel into the panel with the heater hookup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[theoldwizard1]

The generator itself has got to be 100kvw. I'm not sure the exact size but it is ran with a 12 liter cummins. And puts out 480 3phase.

If the generator is high leg delta it is trivial

If it is a wired 3 phase Wye, Line-to-Line will give you 208V. While this is low, your heater will probably work just fine. Many items, including electric motor, are spec'd for 208-240V.

 

[dave*99]

Can I make 220 from 110? I am kinda thinking not.

We have a generator trailer that runs our crushing equipment. When the generator is not running we can plug the trailer into a regular 110 wall outlet and provide us with lighting and basic hand power tools.

We have an electric wall heater that is 220 and am wondering if I can somehow rewire the incoming feed from the 110 shore power and power the heater. I'm assuming I cannot split the one hot lead and make two for the 220?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the generator is high leg delta it is trivial

If it is a wired 3 phase Wye, Line-to-Line will give you 208V. While this is low, your heater will probably work just fine. Many items, including electric motor, are spec'd for 208-240V.

The OP wants to use "110 shore power" as the source. Not sure I see how this connects in your diagram......

 

[alfredeneuman]

If the generator is high leg delta it is trivial

If it is a wired 3 phase Wye, Line-to-Line will give you 208V. While this is low, your heater will probably work just fine.

If the generator produces 480 volts and is wye wound the line-line voltage will be 480, and 277 volts from line-neutral

 

[larry_g]

Yes, you can... with a step-up transformer.



Watts = voltage * amperage. So a 5000W heater would take 21A at 240V, but 42A at 120V!

Read that above again, 42Amps. Does your 'shore power' provide that kind of amperage? I doubt it, most likely 20A. You need to have the amperage to provide the power. I doubt you could run 2 small heaters but that would be my recommendation if you have the amperage is to run two 120v heaters.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Stuff]

You need to find out what the "shore power" feed is. It may already be 120/240 or 120/208 volt or easily converted.

Is there a transfer panel for switching to generator? Usually there is an electrician already involved when you have 480 so tap their knowledge.

 

[homemade1487]

Ok. The heater is on a 20 amp 240volt breaker. Not exactly sure the watt draw of the heater.

The generator is actually 569kva running 277/480 3phase. It powers a 10kva phase converter to make the single phase power.

The transfer switch in the breaker box it switched to shore power. Or the power coming from the shop to feed the trailer and the feed from the generator is switched off.

I know it shows a 20 amp double pole for the incoming breaker but the two poles are wired together so both sides of the panel are fed with power.

I only have 20 amps breaker 120 volt at the panel in the shop that feeds the trailer. I could wire into a 220 volt breaker at the shop panel and feed the heater breaker seperatly from the existing shore power. I believe this is my only option for using the heater and not running the generator currently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dave*99]

You state:
"The transfer switch in the breaker box it switched to shore power. Or the power coming from the shop to feed the trailer and the feed from the generator is switched off.

I know it shows a 20 amp double pole for the incoming breaker but the two poles are wired together so both sides of the panel are fed with power.

I only have 20 amps breaker 120 volt at the panel in the shop that feeds the trailer. I could wire into a 220 volt breaker at the shop panel and feed the heater breaker separately from the existing shore power. I believe this is my only option for using the heater and not running the generator currently. "


Why not combine these 2 thoughts.
Run 240 from a 2 pole breaker in the shop to the transfer switch. Instead of feeding both poles with 1 feed as is done currently, go ahead and feed the 2 poles on the 20A transfer breaker with 240 from the shop. The heater and everything else on this panel will be powered.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The OP wants to use "110 shore power" as the source. Not sure I see how this connects in your diagram......

Ooppss !!!

I mis-read the original post !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Run 240 from a 2 pole breaker in the shop to the transfer switch.

As long as the feed has 4 wires (2 hots, neutral and ground) you are good to go !

 

[LX-Markham]

Watts = voltage * amperage. So a 5000W heater would take 21A at 240V, but 42A at 120V!

I'm trying to sell a 4000W heater, and got a reply yesterday:
"Will this heat my bedroom?"
"It could, but you need a 220v outlet."
"Aren't there converters to our American outlets?"

I even made sure the plug was in the picture.

 

[dave*99]

As long as the feed has 4 wires (2 hots, neutral and ground) you are good to go !

According to the OP, in post #5 he states:

"I do have some 4 wire extension cord that I will wire direct from one panel into the panel with the heater hookup."

So I think the OP figured out his best solution many posts ago.

 

[Norcal]

I'm trying to sell a 4000W heater, and got a reply yesterday:
"Will this heat my bedroom?"
"It could, but you need a 220v outlet."
"Aren't there converters to our American outlets?"

I even made sure the plug was in the picture.

Your thousands of miles from finding 220V.

 

[homemade1487]

Why not combine these 2 thoughts.

Run 240 from a 2 pole breaker in the shop to the transfer switch. Instead of feeding both poles with 1 feed as is done currently, go ahead and feed the 2 poles on the 20A transfer breaker with 240 from the shop. The heater and everything else on this panel will be powered.

Because i was mainly doing this as a temporary thing. The trailer was in the shop only a few days and I wanted to see if the damn heater even worked. I thought some creative wiring in the panel I could make it work. Or stretching a temporary cord from one box to the next to get it to work. I didn't want to get into a bunch of hard wiring for a short time.

I work for the highway dept and we are getting a new shop and hopefully a new trailer in the next few years. I think the new shop will be more ocomidating for our crew and our equipment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LX-Markham]

Your thousands of miles from finding 220V.

correct, my bad.

240V heater for the price of a 220V ....bargain!

 

[Kev442]

Because i was mainly doing this as a temporary thing. The trailer was in the shop only a few days and I wanted to see if the damn heater even worked. I thought some creative wiring in the panel I could make it work. Or stretching a temporary cord from one box to the next to get it to work. I didn't want to get into a bunch of hard wiring for a short time.

I work for the highway dept and we are getting a new shop and hopefully a new trailer in the next few years. I think the new shop will be more ocomidating for our crew and our equipment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have made a cord that plugs into two 110v outlets and runs a 220v item. You need to know the how and why of it. Seeing how 90% of people in the world don't know how and why, I never share it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes, you can... with a step-up transformer.

But, 240v stuff is usually 240v because it takes a lot of power to run. The heater could easily be too much for a 20A circuit. It may work on a 30A circuit, but once you rewire you're better off changing the whole thing over to 240v.

Watts = voltage * amperage. So a 5000W heater would take 21A at 240V, but 42A at 120V!

resistive loads do not work like that. The amperage is not halved or doubled.

The generator itself has got to be 100kvw. I'm not sure the exact size but it is ran with a 12 liter cummins. And puts out 480 3phase. We have a phase converter to run the lights and so on when the gen set is running but this is for when we have it in the shop and just plugged into shore power.

I didn't think it was as easy as tying two hots onto one. I'm not going to spend the money on a transformer. I do have some 4 wire extension cord that I will wire direct from one panel into the panel with the heater hookup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What phase converter are you using that steps down 480v to 120/240v?

If the generator is high leg delta it is trivial

If it is a wired 3 phase Wye, Line-to-Line will give you 208V. While this is low, your heater will probably work just fine. Many items, including electric motor, are spec'd for 208-240V.

There is no such thing as a 4-wire 480 delta. PoCos never offered them because the 240v neutral had no use.

I'm trying to sell a 4000W heater, and got a reply yesterday:
"Will this heat my bedroom?"
"It could, but you need a 220v outlet."
"Aren't there converters to our American outlets?"

I even made sure the plug was in the picture.

You shouldve told him he needs a 240v 30a 6-30r outlet

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have made a cord that plugs into two 110v outlets and runs a 220v item. You need to know the how and why of it. Seeing how 90% of people in the world don't know how and why, I never share it.

And you shouldnt share it since theres so many things wrong with that.

 

[dave*99]

I have made a cord that plugs into two 110v outlets and runs a 220v item. You need to know the how and why of it. Seeing how 90% of people in the world don't know how and why, I never share it.

I'm part of the 10%.

 

[ForceFed70]

resistive loads do not work like that. The amperage is not halved or doubled.

His math is correct. Perhaps not understood tho. To provide 5000W of power via a 120V circuit you'd need a circuit capable of providing 42Amps.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

His math is correct. Perhaps not understood tho. To provide 5000W of power via a 120V circuit you'd need a circuit capable of providing 42Amps.

sure the math is correct for an inductive load going from 120 to 240 or vise versa such as a motor.

But not for a resistive load.

 

[Kev442]

I'm part of the 10%.

I suspect many who help in this section are part of the 10%, but sure aren't going to try and help someone through the internet make one. Brought mine to work with a 30 gallon compressor we needed for a week. The warehouse guy was dumbfounded by it.

 

[Alchymist]

I'm part of the 10%.

I suspect many who help in this section are part of the 10%, but sure aren't going to try and help someone through the internet make one. Brought mine to work with a 30 gallon compressor we needed for a week. The warehouse guy was dumbfounded by it.

Ditto, I know how - but I don't do it. Just not worth the aggravation.

 

[pstemari]

I have made a cord that plugs into two 110v outlets ... Seeing how 90% of people in the world don't know how and why, I never share it.

No kidding, especially since you need two 120v outlets on opposite hots. Not something I would want to try without a meter in hand.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[pstemari]

sure the math is correct for an inductive load going from 120 to 240 or vise versa such as a motor.

But not for a resistive load.

In this case he's talking about feeding a step up transformer. To get 240V @ 20A out you need 120V @ 40A in, plus enough extra voltage to cover resistive losses.

An inductive load isn't any different than a resistive load. As long as the frequency remains the same, double the voltage gives you double the current, half the voltage gives you have the current.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[casetractorfarmer]

http://www.steambrite.com/power-joi...s-240volt-wire-20amp-650r-welder-p-14196.html

 

[ForceFed70]

sure the math is correct for an inductive load going from 120 to 240 or vise versa such as a motor.

But not for a resistive load.

I don't know what the heck you're going on about. The math is no different between an inductive load and resistive load. Amps is calculated using wattage and voltage.

 

[mm08822]

I don't know what the heck you're going on about. The math is no different between an inductive load and resistive load. Amps is calculated using wattage and voltage.

The 5000w heater plugged into 240v will draw 20.8a. The heater is rated at that power output being connected to 240vac.

If you take the same 5000w heater and plug it in to a 120v circuit you will get only 1250w out of it. It will not not pull twice the amperage at 120v.

5000w/240v = 20.8a

240v/20.8a = 11.4 ohms - this is the equivalent resistance of all heating elements in the heater.

120v/11.4ohm = 10.52a (resistance doesn't change.)

P=I*I*R = 10.52a*10.52a*11.4ohms = 1250w
or if you prefer
P=V*I = 120v*10.52a = 1250w

 

[Alchymist]

The 5000w heater plugged into 240v will draw 20.8a. The heater is rated at that power output being connected to 240vac.

If you take the same 5000w heater and plug it in to a 120v circuit you will get only 1250w out of it. It will not not pull twice the amperage at 120v.

5000w/240v = 20.8a

240v/20.8a = 11.4 ohms - this is the equivalent resistance of all heating elements in the heater.

120v/11.4ohm = 10.52a (resistance doesn't change.)

P=I*I*R = 10.52a*10.52a*11.4ohms = 1250w
or if you prefer
P=V*I = 120v*10.52a = 1250w

Duh - you neglected one thing - the motor has to be rewired to run on 120, so does the heater. A heater rated at 5000 watts on 120 will pull 41.6 amps, which is why they don't make them that way.

 

[mm08822]

Duh - you neglected one thing - the motor has to be rewired to run on 120, so does the heater. A heater rated at 5000 watts on 120 will pull 41.6 amps, which is why they don't make them that way.

Duh - No kidding. You missed the point entirely.

 

[Alchymist]

Point being?

 

[ForceFed70]

The 5000w heater plugged into 240v will draw 20.8a. The heater is rated at that power output being connected to 240vac.

If you take the same 5000w heater and plug it in to a 120v circuit you will get only 1250w out of it. It will not not pull twice the amperage at 120v.

5000w/240v = 20.8a

240v/20.8a = 11.4 ohms - this is the equivalent resistance of all heating elements in the heater.

120v/11.4ohm = 10.52a (resistance doesn't change.)

P=I*I*R = 10.52a*10.52a*11.4ohms = 1250w
or if you prefer
P=V*I = 120v*10.52a = 1250w

Yes, I understand that.

You cannot just wire 120V to a 240V appliance and expect it to draw double the amperage. Resistive or Inductive load. That's not a math problem/conversion that's a design issue.

I guess both of you missed the part about using a step-up transformer? That was the assumption when doing these calculations. Not that we'd somehow power a 240V appliance by directly feeding it 120V at double the amperage.

 

[mm08822]

Yes, I understand that.

You cannot just wire 120V to a 240V appliance and expect it to draw double the amperage. Resistive or Inductive load. That's not a math problem/conversion that's a design issue.

I guess both of you missed the part about using a step-up transformer? That was the assumption when doing these calculations. Not that we'd somehow power a 240V appliance by directly feeding it 120V at double the amperage.

That was the very point I was making.

If you were making those calcs/statements based upon on reflecting back thru a xformer, then we are on the same page.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Duh - you neglected one thing - the motor has to be rewired to run on 120, so does the heater. A heater rated at 5000 watts on 120 will pull 41.6 amps, which is why they don't make them that way.

When u take an oven or range rated at 240v and plug it into a 208v service it doesnt need to be rewired but the heating coil does put out less.

I have seen this issue at apartment complexes. Oven never reaches temperature because its operating on reduced voltage.

 

[mm08822]

When u take an oven or range rated at 240v and plug it into a 208v service it doesnt need to be rewired but the heating coil does put out less.

I have seen this issue at apartment complexes. Oven never reaches temperature because its operating on reduced voltage.

Exact same idea - produces only 75% of rated full output in your example.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Exact same idea - produces only 75% of rated full output in your example.

yup I dont get why others arent grasping the concept.