I've been pricing out a new Milwaukee M12 Fuel impact. The USA Tools truck wants $270 for the same kit that sells for $170 at Home Depot and every other store online. I understand that these guys have to make a buck and they don't charge interest on truck accounts but $100 difference is a little nuts. Turns out I know a lady who used to sell to these guys as a distributor. She tried to tell me that the same tools with the same part numbers etc. are sold to the big box stores with different internals. Maybe different motors, plastic gears, or whatever to keep the prices down. I just figured it was because they buy in such large numbers but she insisted that they are lower quality tools. Seems to me that it would be illegal to sell two items with the exact same part number and specs but with different internals. How would you know which one you are getting??? Are you paying $270 for the $170 one? Seems kind of ridiculous that this could happen. I know the big stores have a lot of power and they do have companies making specific models just for them to sell at a lower price point. That's fine. But, can they really cover this up so good that nobody knows about it? I have been a tool nerd my whole life and an auto mechanic for about fifteen years and have never heard of this. Anyone know what's up?
Can't Believe This One
- Thread starter Spug
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devoncoolman
Well-known member
Sometimes this is true. Usually the part # is the same but has a (A or B) at the end. Its the same when u buy the 5 piece kit usually the tools are lower quality.
balane
Well-known member
I know laptops and probably other electronics works this way. Best Buy gets gimped laptop models frequently when compared to the ~same model available elsewhere.
She didn't. That would have been nice though! She did tell me that she has even had reps tell her the same. I'm having a hard time believing this **** but I guess if you really think about, it is possible. Those stores have crazy buying power.
No ****? This is getting good!
jkwilson
Well-known member
After years in manufacturing, I can tell you that those stories aren't true. It would cost more money to set up a second line and source parts for it. In manufacturing, you want people doing the same thing at the same rate every day to make the most money. A second line would probably add somewhere between 20 and 40% to the cost of an item unless both lines were running 24/7.
Good point. But again, Home Depot probably sells at least 50% (just a guess) of the tools for say, Milwaukee, Makita or whoever. They do have some power. I have to get to the bottom of this. Not a huge deal but it's one of those things that's bugging me now. It just doesn't seem to make sense.
devoncoolman
Well-known member
False advertisment is a crime. The latop computer thing with best buy is a myth. Same with the power tools. If the tool is different the part # reflects it. All these storys are the distributers creating "good reasons" why their product costs more money then the big box stores.
jakemac
Well-known member
I've never compared the parts, but when I worked at a hardware store that took in warranties, most of the Dewalt 18v drills that came in broken were originally bought at HD or Lowes. Very few of the tools that were bought at local hardware stores, or direct from Dewalt ever came in for repairs. The same held true for Milwaukee tools as well.
This experience leads me to believe that tool makers were using cheaper parts in box store tools in order to meet contract prices. Remember, the mftr's aren't dictating the price to HD or Lowes. The stores are telling (in some cases demanding) the mftr's what they will pay, or they won't carry the brand. I would bet that is why you are seeing Channellock and Knipex tools disappearing from the shelves.
Years ago, National Hardware was squeezed by HD to lower the price. They couldn't do that without lessening the quality, so they pulled their products from the shelves. That is why HD is now carrying rebranded chinese hardware. (my source was an internal NH memo that my rep showed me, supported by a third un-innvolved vender)
That is why, if I need to buy a new power tool (which I try to avoid), I pay extra and support my local businesses instead of buying at the box stores.
This experience leads me to believe that tool makers were using cheaper parts in box store tools in order to meet contract prices. Remember, the mftr's aren't dictating the price to HD or Lowes. The stores are telling (in some cases demanding) the mftr's what they will pay, or they won't carry the brand. I would bet that is why you are seeing Channellock and Knipex tools disappearing from the shelves.
Years ago, National Hardware was squeezed by HD to lower the price. They couldn't do that without lessening the quality, so they pulled their products from the shelves. That is why HD is now carrying rebranded chinese hardware. (my source was an internal NH memo that my rep showed me, supported by a third un-innvolved vender)
That is why, if I need to buy a new power tool (which I try to avoid), I pay extra and support my local businesses instead of buying at the box stores.
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balane
Well-known member
That is not correct. It has nothing to do with false advertising either. The Best Buy laptop issue has been proven time and time again. Best Buy versions got 128 bit video cards while every single other retailer sold 192 bit cards. (Both video cards were the listed as the same model number under the specifications list.) Like the tools in question here these laptops were sold at lower prices but still with the same model number (G74SX) as faster laptops being sold elsewhere.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus-gaming-notebook-forum/598022-why-so-cheap.html
One thing that would set the Best Buy situation apart from the one being discussed in this thread is that there were part number addons (In small print, on the back of the packaging but no mention of slower hardware.) such as A1, A2, etc. but the average consumer, and even experienced computer buyers were often fooled into getting slower computers against their knowledge. This had a bad backlash against Asus and Best Buy in the power user community (The people who spend the most money on computers.) so ultimately both companies stopped this practice thankfully. But it most certainly was not a myth. Hidden corporate tactics and agendas to make the most profit are common, it's not helpful to believe otherwise for a second.
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Fordman7795
Well-known member
Ive heard the same thing with power tools. My boss orders our dewalt tools from the local fasteners/fastenal type place. I asked why he was overpaying for them when he could just get them at home depot. He said the rep told him the ones he sold were "commercial grade" (yet they still only last 2-3 months). Sounds like the small specialty shops are using this line to try to stay competetive
chrisa7164
Well-known member
Kind of off topic,but along the same idea..when Hyundai first started importing cars to the US they had the excel..which was the same as the Mitsubishi Precis. The factory had 2 lines..one putting Hyundai emblems..the other Mitsubishi.. The Excel was a $3500. car..the Mits was $5k.
Tarheelgarage
Well-known member
You are correct.
The one's perpetuating this myth are the ones trying to ape-**** you for an extra $100 for the exact same tool.
Big box stores have the buying clout to sell this less than any mom or pop store.
OP: Don't fall for the hype and bull **** that is being slug at you.
fivespdcat
Well-known member
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- Oct 25, 2011
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This may be happening, but based on my experience it is not the norm. I would put a bigger bet on the rep and or distributor making this story up or misunderstanding. Reps often don't know half the things they think they know and are also just trying to hit their sales targets. I've met enough of them to know, it's all a game a telephone. One person knows the truth tells person b, who tells person c and when it finally gets out, the message is nowhere near what the first person said.
Regarding the Home Depot special line. I believe this. Home Depot has enough Milwaukee volume to have their own assembly line for some products. However I do not believe that HD has different products when they are exactly the same part number. This is a very difficult scenario for a manufacturer to handle. You order all of your sub components and manufacture according to part numbers. It would just be easier to change the model/part number, because in the end most people don't track on those numbers, they go into HD and buy something that fits their needs with a brand that is comfortable for them.
Regarding the Home Depot special line. I believe this. Home Depot has enough Milwaukee volume to have their own assembly line for some products. However I do not believe that HD has different products when they are exactly the same part number. This is a very difficult scenario for a manufacturer to handle. You order all of your sub components and manufacture according to part numbers. It would just be easier to change the model/part number, because in the end most people don't track on those numbers, they go into HD and buy something that fits their needs with a brand that is comfortable for them.
The Yugo GV was $3,995. I think the Hyundai Excel was $4,995, and the Mitsubishi Precis was $5,500. But yep, same exact cars. The Mitsubishi Mirage was about $5,999 and was the same size/format but it had the better Japanese engines/trannies.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Why are these claims always hearsay? " I heard it from some other guy, it was my (insert relative/friend/co-worker here)"
I've spent a lifetime in high production industrial manufacturing and I'm calling BS on this one. A separate packaging line?- maybe (for customer-specific point of sale boxes) but not a separate line making quasi-identical products with identical model numbers.
neophyte
Well-known member
There would have to be some indication on the tool to say whether it had been made for a big box store, or that it was a regular "industrial" line tool. It would be possible to switch in cheaper components, or skimp on other production line steps, to cheapen the tool for a major store that wants to offer it at a lower price. It may depend on how many of the tools the manufacturer is producing per batch for whether it could be done efficiently. A manufacturer may only need to save a few dollars per tool to make a minor switch in components worthwhile.
The Armstrong Maxx Beam wrenches for instance, use the same forged blanks as the Craftsman Cross-Beam wrenches, but the broaching is different, the finish is way better quality on the Armstrongs, and the brand and number stamps are different. There could be other differences that aren't readily noticeable, such as heat treatment. Cheapening a few steps during manufacturing likely allowed enough money to be saved to make it worthwhile.
The Armstrong Maxx Beam wrenches for instance, use the same forged blanks as the Craftsman Cross-Beam wrenches, but the broaching is different, the finish is way better quality on the Armstrongs, and the brand and number stamps are different. There could be other differences that aren't readily noticeable, such as heat treatment. Cheapening a few steps during manufacturing likely allowed enough money to be saved to make it worthwhile.
akpolaris
Well-known member
I purchased a Lincoln 180HD Mig welder from Home Depot. The HD indicates it was made to sell at Home Depot. The similar Lincoln 180 mig welder sold by the local welding supply was $200 more in price. There is a difference in the internal parts. Things such as rollers and housings are made of plastic on the HD model instead of brass and aluminum for the industrial model.
thinman
Well-known member
Used to work part time in a gun shop. Shop owner had a manufacturing background. He said the manufacturers don't set up a separate line for big box discounters but they do loosen tolerances. Looser tolerances cuts the reject and re-work rates. So, the big box stores get the price point and the consumer sometimes gets a product that works but doesn't always perform or last as well as a regular production item.
91bronc300
Well-known member
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- Oct 19, 2009
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That makes pretty good sense. So I guess the factory pushes warranty responsibility onto the retailer then if they lax out on quality control like that.
Super Sport
Well-known member
This definitely makes sense, and is very believable to me. More complex items, such as computers or TVs, where the parts are often from a supplier and easily interchangeable, this would also make sense (just tweek the item # a little).
I highly doubt tool manufacturers are selling different quality products under he same item number that look identical. Not only would this make it impossible for them to supply replacement parts, but it would definitely add to production costs.
Its true and it isn't. They do spec lower end (cheaper) units to price them as low as possible however they cannot have the same exact model numbers. There will always be something in there to differentiate.
Truthfully the suppliers hate that kind of stuff, at least the ones that care. Its their name on the line after all.
Truthfully the suppliers hate that kind of stuff, at least the ones that care. Its their name on the line after all.
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This is totally different then what the OP is suggesting.. Its a different part number and the machine is designed for a home owner.
The welding store units are market as commercial grade and its pretty obvious when you open up the side panel things are different.
Still a little misleading in the marketing but research is on the buyer in this case..
Specs
Well-known member
Truth!!!!! I can back this. Do a firmware upgrade on a networking router and you will be asked the specific serial number, and it'll have a revision A or B or C, depending on which part of the fiscal quarter you bought it in and where. The first series is the most money for the company and the revision C is the "we have our act together now so it's cheaper parts to do the same job."
As far as Drills and motorized equipment,
it's a crapshoot because if the good drill is just sitting on the shelves the whole year, here come the rebates to blow out the product and then make the cheaper version to recoup the losses on said drill. With a 2-5 year warranty built into the drill, cut some corners
But I'm cynical so...
Could you provide an example?
I worked at Best Buy some time ago and in my experience this is not the case.
EDIT; Just saw your other post. You cannot just look at the first four digits of a model number of a computer and ignore the rest. The first half only denotes chassis size and maybe the motherboard after that it is spec'd out to whoever is buying. Manufactures make dozens of variations of a unit that has the same first half of the model number.
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balane
Well-known member
It was more than that. Each laptop had the exact same video card model number listed on the specs. All G74SX Asus laptops came with the same model number video card. BUT, the Best Buy versions sold gimped 128 bit versions with absolutely no documentation anywhere mentioning it. It was only when advanced users started noticing decreased gaming performance and used software like GPU-Z to look further into the hardware configuration that they were able to determine why.
I'm not talking about variations in things like memory or hard drive or even CPU configurations which would constitute differences in part numbers. but a deep rooted and serious intentional gimping of the video card. It was shady, disgusting and every single person informed on the subject agrees with that. So much so that neither Best Buy or Asus ever tried such a ridiculous stunt again.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Best Buy employees weren't aware of it, this is certainly not something they would spread around. Don't take my word on it, read up on it yourself. There's no shortages of web pages and forums from angry Asus/Best Buy customers over it. It's also possible you weren't employed there at the time Best Buy tried pulling this racket.
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Specs
Well-known member
Peek squad isn't even aware of it. How is a floor rep gonna know? Thisis one of the main reasons, i stop buying PC's and laptops. You get gypped for what you're paying for.
Some laptops would have onboard video cards and a Standalone card, and the bios would not allow you to disable either one, so you're running 2 resources when you can only use one connector.
If you return the laptop for warranty for repair, you need to double check they give the exact part you had. Friend lost 60gb on a repair because his model had the same make as a 60gb laptop, but he PAID for the 120gb. He wasn't too pissed.... A month later.
If your best buy guy has to read the same product card as you just glanced over, you need to just go newegg, lol.
Some laptops would have onboard video cards and a Standalone card, and the bios would not allow you to disable either one, so you're running 2 resources when you can only use one connector.
If you return the laptop for warranty for repair, you need to double check they give the exact part you had. Friend lost 60gb on a repair because his model had the same make as a 60gb laptop, but he PAID for the 120gb. He wasn't too pissed.... A month later.
If your best buy guy has to read the same product card as you just glanced over, you need to just go newegg, lol.
Long time listener, first time caller. I have heard this before. I have a Milwaukee M18 drill at home that I purchased from Home Depot. I have the same drill at work that was purchased at Graingers, an industrial supply house. I'll take a look and the two and put them in a scale to try to find any differences.
porschedude996TT
Well-known member
I guessing that the Home Depot Line output does not say Milwaukee, and says Ryobi.
I can see maybe the comment about the A vs. B in addition to the Part Number on the box, but my guess is that the SKU is different.
Quote from Milwaukee site:
"Milwaukee Electric Tool is a subsidiary of Techtronic Industries Co. Ltd. (TTI), www.ttigroup.com.
Founded in 1985, TTI is a leading marketer, manufacturer and supplier of home improvement and floor care products, employing over 20,000 people worldwide. TTI's global brand portfolio includes Ryobi®, Milwaukee® and AEG® power tools, DreBo® carbide drill bits, Homelite® and Ryobi® outdoor power equipment and Royal®, Dirt Devil®, Regina® and VAX® floor care appliances. The acquisition takes advantage of TTI and Milwaukee’s marketing and distribution networks and enhances Milwaukee’s ability to expand its markets and product portfolio worldwide."
Open them up and take some pics! That would be perfect.
Seriously though, let us know. I would hope the one from Grainger is better because those guys aren't afraid to charge top dollar for anything.I dont believe for one second that they are using the same part number for a lesser quality drill. When I was looking for bare tool Dewalt 20v stuff I was surprised at how many part numbers there were for the "same" tool. I found that the kits would come with different tools than if you bought them individually. Same for the welders as mentioned above but they all use different part numbers.
woody 73
Well-known member
I find it hard to believe that Milwaukee would give out the same #'s but use different parts. I would think as a whole it would be a nightmare to work on fixing broken units trying to figure out if one unit had the better or cheaper parts inside.
If I was a gambling man (don't tell my bookie) I would think the guys selling the same tool for $100.00 dollars more are just telling some nice tall tales to help pay for their sailing boats.
If I was a gambling man (don't tell my bookie) I would think the guys selling the same tool for $100.00 dollars more are just telling some nice tall tales to help pay for their sailing boats.
Specs
Well-known member
^^^ boats n hoes ^^^
chrisa7164
Well-known member
I have also heard the same thing about John Deere lawn tractors..the ones sold at the "big box stores" aren't the same as the ones sold at the factory dealers. The local dealer around here..who had been selling JD products since the 1940's... gave up the franchise because they wanted them to warranty ones sold from HD and Lowes.