Changing a mud ring

[idleclamp]

The house I'm living in was built with no light fixtures in the bedrooms. The switch next to the door controlled an outlet. The last owners had ceiling fans installed and wired them so that the light switch now operates the light on the ceiling fan. In order to operate the fan itself, you have to pull the chain.

I want to install rotary switch next to the light switch to operate the fan in each room. The light switch is on a 4x4 box with single gang mud ring. What do I need to do in order to install a double gang mud ring to accommodate the rotary switch? Is there any easier way than cutting out the drywall far enough to remove the current mud ring, replace it, and mud/tape again?

 

[happy2rv]

Assuming the box is already a 2-gang box with a single gang mud ring attached, you might get away with just cutting the drywall back enough to remove the mud ring and attaching a 2-Gang wall box extender like this:

Depending on how much you have to cut back, you might not have to do any drywall repairs.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If the drywall covers half the box then no there is no easier thing to do other than cut the drywall.

But drywall is easy!!

 

[Norcal]

If the drywall covers half the box then no there is no eqsier thing to do other than cut the drywall.

But drywall is easy!!

If the OP does not go crazy the wall plate will cover the cut, a midsize, or jumbo, plate will but they are **** ugly.

 

[The FIB]

why not go with a combination switch?

Something like this...

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/StandAloneControls/FanControls/Skylark/Overview.aspx

 

[jdsac]

The Lutron unit mentioned above will only control the fan- I have a couple and they work well. Here is the Hunter Fans version- left slide controls & dims
the fan light, right side slide is on/ off & fan speeds. I also have some of these and would use them again anywhere I wanted to control both fan & fan lights with one device.
Home Depot for example has them if you want to look and at a better price

https://www.atgstores.com/ceiling-f...e-fan-wall-mount-control_2280345.html?af=2615

Forgot to mention- the Hunter switch requires 3 conductor wire to the fan,,,,

 

[idleclamp]

If the OP does not go crazy the wall plate will cover the cut, a midsize, or jumbo, plate will but they are **** ugly.

I don't think I'm crazy, but I don't think my wife agrees. So I guess that could go either way.

I've seen those switches and I'm not really interested in a combo switch. Two of the rooms are the kids' rooms. I'd rather make it simple (for them, not necessarily me).

Thanks for the help. Hopefully I don't get called into work and can get it done this week.


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[happy2rv]

If the OP does not go crazy the wall plate will cover the cut, a midsize, or jumbo, plate will but they are **** ugly.

If there is currently a mud ring, the box will be set back flush with the stud or possibly even slightly more recessed. An extension will be needed to bring the box out flush with the plaster or drywall.

 

[70R]

I've done this several times, for the same reason you are - to add a second switch for a fan.

As mentioned above, if they used mud rings initially, cutting the drywall is all that is needed. No oversized switch plates are required if you cut carefully.

Remove the switch and hold the new ring over the opening. Align the new ring perfectly over the old ring. Trace around the new ring and cut along the lines. With the drywall removed, you can remove the two screws and remove/replace the ring. A standard switch plate will cover the opening in the drywall.

I like this method because it works even when the box isn't perfectly level.

For me, this was the easy part of the job. The tough part was pulling an additional wire for the fan. Luckily they were in conduit.

 

[idleclamp]

I've done this several times, for the same reason you are - to add a second switch for a fan.

As mentioned above, if they used mud rings initially, cutting the drywall is all that is needed. No oversized switch plates are required if you cut carefully.

Remove the switch and hold the new ring over the opening. Align the new ring perfectly over the old ring. Trace around the new ring and cut along the lines. With the drywall removed, you can remove the two screws and remove/replace the ring. A standard switch plate will cover the opening in the drywall.

I like this method because it works even when the box isn't perfectly level.

For me, this was the easy part of the job. The tough part was pulling an additional wire for the fan. Luckily they were in conduit.

Ok, good to know. Mine is in conduit as well.

I haven't started trying to figure out the wiring yet. I assume that since the fan can be controlled with the chain regardless of light switch position that the power is at the ceiling fan and not at the light switch, right?

 

[Norcal]

If there is currently a mud ring, the box will be set back flush with the stud or possibly even slightly more recessed. An extension will be needed to bring the box out flush with the plaster or drywall.

Not if you use the right ring, which means a 5/8" for 1/2" drywall, & 3/4" for 5/8".

 

[happy2rv]

Yes, I see. I was thinking no mud ring...

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

The Lutron unit mentioned above will only control the fan- I have a couple and they work well. Here is the Hunter Fans version- left slide controls & dims
the fan light, right side slide is on/ off & fan speeds. I also have some of these and would use them again anywhere I wanted to control both fan & fan lights with one device.
Home Depot for example has them if you want to look and at a better price

https://www.atgstores.com/ceiling-f...e-fan-wall-mount-control_2280345.html?af=2615

Forgot to mention- the Hunter switch requires 3 conductor wire to the fan,,,,

The switch above controls both the fan and light.

 

[70R]

Ok, good to know. Mine is in conduit as well.

I haven't started trying to figure out the wiring yet. I assume that since the fan can be controlled with the chain regardless of light switch position that the power is at the ceiling fan and not at the light switch, right?

Since the existing wall switch controls the light and fan, and in conduit, it should be pretty easy. Connect one terminal of the new switch to the hot on the existing wall switch. The other terminal of the new wall switch connects to a new wire pulled from the wall switch box to the ceiling box. It then connects to the fan wire. The fan and light wires in the ceiling box are most likely connected together right now and need to be separated.

 

[teamo]

I've changed out mud rings from single to two gang without having to patch anything. It can be done. Lay the new two gang ring over the box, trace out the new two gang ring, and cut out the drywall to fit. You can usually push the box back slightly into the wall if it is only secured on one side of the stud (sometimes they use brackets on both sides of the box but mostly in commercial work with metal studs). You can sneak your screwdriver into the corners to loosen the screws securing the mud ring to the 4x4 box. Remove the old single gang ring, slip the new ring in at a diagonal angle and bring it back over the front of the box, then slide the ears of the new ring over the screws and tighten. Bend the box back into position.

 

[idleclamp]

Since the existing wall switch controls the light and fan, and in conduit, it should be pretty easy. Connect one terminal of the new switch to the hot on the existing wall switch. The other terminal of the new wall switch connects to a new wire pulled from the wall switch box to the ceiling box. It then connects to the fan wire. The fan and light wires in the ceiling box are most likely connected together right now and need to be separated.

Actually, it doesn't. The wall switch only operates the light. So my guess is (without having looked at it yet) that the power is in the ceiling box and therefore I'll have to pull two wires. One into the new switch from the hot wire and one back to the ceiling box to connect to the fan wire, right?

 

[happy2rv]

If the light is on the same circuit as the fan, which I would expect it to be, then you can get power from the light switch. If it's thhn wire in conduit, you can pull one additional conductor. If it's nm-b (romex or any cable type not in conduit), you can't pull a single conductor.

 

[idleclamp]

If the light is on the same circuit as the fan, which I would expect it to be, then you can get power from the light switch. If it's thhn wire in conduit, you can pull one additional conductor. If it's nm-b (romex or any cable type not in conduit), you can't pull a single conductor.

Ok, so I don't need another hot wire going to the switch box because it's already there for the light. It's THHN wire so that should work out. Thanks!


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