cheap tools, bad idea

[Thumper68]

So my friend/neighbor down the alley evidently saw me arrive home. Just as I settled down to watch the tube and of course check up on GJ a thump, thump came from my back door.

"Hey K do you have a few moments to help me out?"

"Sure B no problem."

We walk over to his house to take a look at his new project, nothing really hard he wants to put a hose bib on the side of his house. We get down to his basement and he has what has to be the cheapest piece of **** hammer drill, he explains that the bit must be bad because he can't get more than an inch into the bluestone foundation. He proceeds to show me, taking the drill he puts the bit in the started hole and starts it up, leaning on it hard. No more than 20 seconds go by and the magic smoke comes out of the drill along with quite a few sparks, B jumped back and drops the drill, the case splits open as it hits the floor. I say don't worry I have a drill ( I know that B knew that I had a drill that would do the job)

I go get my bosch rotary hammer and a 1 inch splined bit and finish the 1 x 18 inch hole in about 2 minutes.

B is famous for not buying good tools nor is he willing to go rent the right tool for the job, he and I have had this discussion many times over the last 2 years that we have been neighbors.

Before I moved in he would just keep going back to the store and buying the cheapest tool that he thought would do the job sometimes spending more than what the good tool would have cost.

Now don't get the wrong idea, B is a good guy but he is just not willing to learn that you should buy the best tool once instead of buying the same cheap tool over and over.

 

[JJThrasher]

I personally can't stand this type of person. I understand nobody can have every tool and everybody buys a bad tool every now again. But people that always go the cheapest route and end up wasting so much time and money..... sorry personal pet peeve....

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[PETE14]

Seems like common sense to me. I consider myself to be fairly frugle, but I can't stand cheap tools.

 

[bdamico]

Conclusion is wrong -- it is actually most economically efficient to buy the very cheapest tool that will get the jobs done that you need it to do for you. Of course predicting that right balance is hard. But the story hardly supports the notion that you should buy the best tool.

 

[toolaholic]

Speaking of hammer drills. I bought a bosch 1194 hammer drill about 15yrs ago at Home Depot on clearance. It runs very hot. Reviewers in amazon has burned them up. It is a dual speed 1000/3000 rpm drill. I use the 3000rpm to power wire brushes. I do not push it hard. My bosch bulldog rotary 1224vsr is a very cool running drill that can be pushed hard. Sometimes brand new tools are great and once in awhile they fall short.

 

[jd_1138]

There are a lot of dudes like your neighbor. They'd rather spend their money on beer or eating out or whatever than buying tools because they always have a pal who has the proper tools to borrow.

 

[Thumper68]

My hammer drill costs $4300, doing the same job in 30 seconds, making yours comparative garbage.
Now what?

If you can drill a 1 inch hole in 18 inches of blue stone in 30 sec more power to you.

 

[marty_p]

Seems like common sense to me. I consider myself to be fairly frugle, but I can't stand cheap tools.

^^ that ^^ times two!

'B' is penny-wise, yet pound-foolish.

 

[Wrenched]

Or rent one if you don't use it often.

 

[Bill Ramsey]

There are a lot of dudes like your neighbor. They'd rather spend their money on beer or eating out or whatever than buying tools because they always have a pal who has the proper tools to borrow.

This.

He came and knocked on your door, right? Who's the smart guy, I ask you?

 

[Thumper68]

This.

He came and knocked on your door, right? Who's the smart guy, I ask you?

Me I had to drill 1 hole, 2 weeks ago I went (actually sent one of the kids) and knocked on his door and had him come over to help unload the new hot tub.

 

[oilslick]

My hammer drill costs $4300, doing the same job in 30 seconds, making yours comparative garbage.
Now what?

Good one, damn near one of the best yet.

 

[Jack Olsen]

It's hard to generalize too much. Of course, if you've got so much money it doesn't matter, then always buy a top-line tool. But if you want the best bang for your buck, then I think you've got to balance the good and the passable.

As it happens, I've got a Harbor Freight hammer drill that has never let me down. I've also got a second-hand Bosch that's sitting in a pile waiting for me to see why it's been pretty much useless every time I've fired it up. I would never take that to mean a Harbor Freight tool is better than a Bosch. But sometimes tools break or die -- even the good ones.

 

[cheechi]

nobody can have every tool

I don't understand this concept. I fear that if you explain it you might hurt both of my feelings.

 

[DCarr]

I personally can't stand this type of person. I understand nobody can have every tool and everybody buys a bad tool every now again. But people that always go the cheapest route and end up wasting so much time and money..... sorry personal pet peeve....

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If you read a few threads on here you could get the idea that people think Harbor Frieght is a palace full of tools. But you never see them for sale in the classified section ......

 

[DCarr]

My hammer drill costs $4300, doing the same job in 30 seconds, making yours comparative garbage.
Now what?

His is far from garbage, it didnt go up in flames and split apart when dropped, and it still works.

 

[Norcal]

Words of advice given to me was "Buy well, buy once." I admit to owning a few Harbor Freight "tools" but not much, largest item is one of their bead blasters, it's a cheaply built ChiCom item but better then nothing, maybe I'll get a auction deal one day.

 

[ddawg16]

It's hard to generalize too much. Of course, if you've got so much money it doesn't matter, then always buy a top-line tool. But if you want the best bang for your buck, then I think you've got to balance the good and the passable.

As it happens, I've got a Harbor Freight hammer drill that has never let me down. I've also got a second-hand Bosch that's sitting in a pile waiting for me to see why it's been pretty much useless every time I've fired it up. I would never take that to mean a Harbor Freight tool is better than a Bosch. But sometimes tools break or die -- even the good ones.

Interesting......everyone glosses right over this comment as if it was never made......

I'm somewhat in the same boat....yea, I have a few SO tools....but a lot of Ryobi and HF stuff....works just fine for me.....in fact, got some good compliments from some Scouting dads who were using my HF disc/belt sander when they were making their pinewood derby cars.....something to the tune of 'where can I get one of these?'

 

[drmarkr]

If you can drill a 1 inch hole in 18 inches of blue stone in 30 sec more power to you.

For $4300 it should drill the gawddamm hole in 10 seconds.....

 

[Kevin C]

http://blog.harborfreight.com/sds-rotary-drill/4204/

I got this at HF for $59 a few years ago.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-1-inch-sds-rotary-hammer-97743.html I have used it about 20 times and its still running. From what I have read it gets good reviews, even by pro's.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-1-inch-sds-rotary-hammer-97743.html Reviews...

I have a mix of Dewalt, Ryobi, Craftsman and Rigid tools.

The HF drill hammer is not a work of art and the brushes did throw a few sparks when new. Five years later it still works just great. If it died, it owes me nothing. Renting would have cost a lot more and given how many other tools I have had to buy, top of the line was not always an option.

What mattered was did I finish the project? For me the end goal is to get something done and not just collect nice tools. That said, my neighbors nick named my shop the tool library.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Interesting......everyone glosses right over this comment as if it was never made......

I'm somewhat in the same boat....yea, I have a few SO tools....but a lot of Ryobi and HF stuff....works just fine for me.....in fact, got some good compliments from some Scouting dads who were using my HF disc/belt sander when they were making their pinewood derby cars.....something to the tune of 'where can I get one of these?'

Nope I caught it John. There's a few things that I buy at HF but I'll steer clear of their power/air tools unless it really cheap like the $9.99 die grinder. I prefer to spend a few bucks more and get something that I can use for a long time. Granted, like Jack says, sometimes good tools break. . . . that's when Murphy needs his *** kicked.

 

[OctoMan]

The cheap guy pays the most.

 

[hh76]

It's hard to generalize too much. Of course, if you've got so much money it doesn't matter, then always buy a top-line tool. But if you want the best bang for your buck, then I think you've got to balance the good and the passable.

As it happens, I've got a Harbor Freight hammer drill that has never let me down. I've also got a second-hand Bosch that's sitting in a pile waiting for me to see why it's been pretty much useless every time I've fired it up. I would never take that to mean a Harbor Freight tool is better than a Bosch. But sometimes tools break or die -- even the good ones.

Exactly. I'd never buy top of the line if I am resonably sure I'll only need the thing for one project.

For $4300 it should drill the gawddamm hole in 10 seconds.....

And it should do it while I drink a beer on the couch.

 

[Ryf]

my dad bought a Tile saw at HF, redid all the tile in his house(3 bathrooms) and it didn't break or need anything, he could rent one, but then he has to do it on a time table, so he came out ahead.

I think the key to HF is "pro over hobby" if your house payment depends on your tools, you can't afford the odds of downtime, better brands make alot of sense. tools I use rarely, I often get lesser products, because the value of a tool is in its use, hand tools, pliers, cutters etc, I go with as good a grade as i can afford, as I use them alot more, the odds of wearing them out or breaking them goes up.

I have an HF chop saw I couldn't see the point of it or future for it when I first got it, welding got in my blood and its been used way more than I deserve and has held up well, do I baby it, probably, but it owes me nothing after the 6 or 7 years, and tons of projects its helped me complete. if it broke today I would go buy another.

most of my wrenches are craftsman, my father gave me some of them as a teen, and for my uses I've had no complaints, so I've continued on that path for order and convenience sake.

I dont use HF that much anymore, with gas costing what it does, and full size trucks using what they use, its 50ish miles away, so unless I'm buying multiple things or a big ticket item, I stick with local purchasing, or internet ordering usually from amazon. the economics of the savings just aren't there if I do need to do a return.

on the other hand, my father in law bought a Porter cable sawzall, and promptly killed it because it has plastic drive gears.

 

[ed_h]

The cheap guy pays the most.

This is a nice snappy quote, but it's really more complicated than that.

(Not picking on you, Octoman, but you neatly summarized a lot of the sentiments on the thread)

A friend and I both bought shop compressors at about the same time. The two machines have similar specs, but his is a Quincy and mine is an Ingersol Rand from Tractor Supply. He paid three times what I paid. We use them for similar stuff, but he is retired and uses his probably nearly every day. I use mine probably once a week or less. Both machines have been in service for over ten years now with no problems.

I suggest that we both made sound decisions on which machine to buy.

 

[Thumper68]

I really like how this has turned into a HF vs "good" tool thread.

The drill he had didn't come from HF, it was a brand name home owner tool.

No matter what it wasn't the "right" tool for what he was doing, he needed a rotary hammer to drill through 18"

I buy quite a few things from HF. I have found that if you look carefully you can get some good deals.

HF stuff that has worked well for me
Hose reel 6 years
24 inch drill bits (even though they have raised the price)
sand paper/emory cloth
cement mixer 20+ years
many air tools

The Bosch rotary hammer in that I used I bought in 1991, have had the brushes replaced a few times and the switch once and a new cord.

I look at how a tool is going to be used, if it is a seldom used tool I may buy a inexpensive one, but if its a tool that is going to be used a lot then I buy the best one I can afford.

 

[Todd.Brock]

I have a love hate relationship with hammer drills. I bought a cheap HF unit for finishing the basement. It died in a year, but I used the heck out of it. I got my 30 bucks worth. I need an SDS sized Bosch thing every couple of years. I have rented 3x's now at about 30 bucks a pop. This is over 5 years. I'm still not sure I can bring my self to buy one b/c the payback vs. renting would take a lifetime ...I hesitate to buy used, b/c everything I see is beat to hell.

 

[Automatic Slim]

Not everyone has enough need for a high dollar hammerdrill, and most think a cheapie will get them by for the odd job or two over the lifespan. I have a dewalt SDS hammer drill that works fine for me.

Sometimes "expensive" is not always better. I'm not brand allegience, esp. on corded tools; but do investigage the specs - and to me, that's where "B" went wrong. Fine to get a no-name hammerdrill, but one first must have an understanding of tools and their capabilities. Obviously the harbor freight was a POS, and when it comes to drills always better to have more than needed when the bit gets tight in deep holes.

So, imo, "B" has a bigger problem than just buying cheap tools, he does not have an understanding of applying -


Moral of this story (like many of my friends): Do not let "B" borrow tools unsupervised, or your stuff will come back wrecked.

 

[Tricon]

If you can drill a 1 inch hole in 18 inches of blue stone in 30 sec more power to you.

Conversely, if you can drill a 1 inch hole, in 18 inches of blue stone without your cheap hammer drill dying, more power to you.

 

[atfulldraw]

farmers call this a co-op.

works pretty well in my little neighborhood too.

It even seems silly that we each have our own tractors.
But we don't need all 16 of us to own a 3 point post hole digger.

One guy is a lineman - I have basic Klein stuff, but I go see him for big cutters etc.

The fence guy lives at the end of the street - he has a wall full of fencing tools (although I have found it is easier to just pay him to put it up than to borrow his tools and do it myself)

 

[marinusdees]

I love you spelling of frugal!

 

[rednecklimo85]

In todays world, top of the line is not necessary top of the line. I've seen expensive snap on ratcheting wrench's that couldn't hold a candle to gear wrench ratcheting. The tech promptly traded them back in for something else and bought gear wrench stuff.

I grew up watching my dad trying to be frugal only to get bit in the a$$ time and time again. I plan on buying the best item I can afford and do a lot of research before committing. I've also learned that buying used is not always a great option either, a used item around here is for sale because it has been used and abused(if it even works at all!) and they still want 75% of the price of a new one.

As much as it hurts to buy a new high quality item, I like the fact that I know how its been used and maintained, and know that I probably wont be buying it again in 6 months.

 

[rslaback]

He bought a cheap hammer drill.
He got his project done.

Why did he need a more expensive one?

 

[JJThrasher]

He bought a cheap hammer drill.
He got his project done.

Why did he need a more expensive one?

It didn't get the project done. It broke then he had to borrow one. He should have either bought one that would do the job or just borrowed one to begin with.

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[jd_1138]

I'm still not sure I can bring my self to buy one b/c the payback vs. renting would take a lifetime ...I hesitate to buy used, b/c everything I see is beat to hell.

But buying the Bosch would save a trip to the rental shop and a return trip to the rental shop to take it back. Lots of variables.

Usually, if I have to rent something twice and see a future need for it, then I will buy the item and then just have it. Also, you can loan it out to your neighbors/buddies and then they can in turn loan you their tools. I don't mind loaning out a sawzall or a table saw because these guys are usually the ones up on the roof with me or where ever helping me out.

 

[JerryB]

Several folks among my group of friends will only purchase the fewest and cheapest tools they can find. They frequently will call one of us who have better quality tools to ask advice. As in the original post, most of us with better equipment go into the 'help your neighbor' mode, supplying the tool, and doing most of the work.

I've always thought this was ingenious on the part of the cheap tool guy: Not only does he get the use of a more capable tool, but also gets the knowledge and labor of the tool owner.

BTW, most of us have a strict "No, you can not borrow . . ." policy with folks outside of our relatively well equipped circle. That policy especially applies to the guy who only has HF and other low quality tools, mostly bought second hand at yard sales!

 

[ishiboo]

Cheap tools are great - they let you get the job done for less money. I have a ton of cheap tools. For corded products, I have almost all Bosch - 36v drill, tons of 18v and tons of 12v, as well as the 4100, 5400L miter saw, etc. But I also have a lot of "cheap".

I almost always research what I buy first. My Kobalt and some HF tools are more than capable of doing what I need.

Money does not always equal quality either. I bought a Bosch circular saw a couple months ago - it was a total piece. Replaced it with a less-expensive Makita and I couldn't be happier with it.

Cheap, expensive, and everything in between - what matters is you buy what's right for what you'll be using it for and educate yourself first. To me, spending a ton of money for no reason is almost as bad as going cheap every time.

 

[rslaback]

It didn't get the project done. It broke then he had to borrow one. He should have either bought one that would do the job or just borrowed one to begin with.

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I never said the drill he bought got the project done.

Allow me to use a parental analogy:

Say Jimmy wants to find his shoes. Jimmy knows that if he asks his mom to find them she will refuse. Therefore Jimmy announces that he is looking for his shoes and begins walking around the house. Jimmy doesn't put much effort into looking for them but if he stumbles upon them, great. When Jimmy has put forth what appears to be a good effort his mom will help him find them. She does so. Jimmy didn't put in much effort. Jimmy got his shoes.

In terms of helping out a neighbor there is a large psychological difference between "do it for me" and "I'm trying, but my way *****."

 

[mrjaw14]

The cheap guy pays the most.

This is a very true statement! I am known as "cheap" in just about everything. I used to be that way about tools. I've had too many cheap tools fail me in my youth. Now I have much nicer tools that work every time. If only I had bought them sooner!

 

[JJThrasher]

I never said the drill he bought got the project done.

Allow me to use a parental analogy:

Say Jimmy wants to find his shoes. Jimmy knows that if he asks his mom to find them she will refuse. Therefore Jimmy announces that he is looking for his shoes and begins walking around the house. Jimmy doesn't put much effort into looking for them but if he stumbles upon them, great. When Jimmy has put forth what appears to be a good effort his mom will help him find them. She does so. Jimmy didn't put in much effort. Jimmy got his shoes.

In terms of helping out a neighbor there is a large psychological difference between "do it for me" and "I'm trying, but my way *****."

The problem is he bought the **** drill. He could have just walked over to begin with and asked to borrow the drill. If he had done that, he would have saved the money of buying the worthless drill in the first place, plus he wouldn't have wasted time trying to use the thing. What his neighbor should have said was, "I need to do this. May I please borrow the appropriate tool?"

I had to drill holes in my concrete floor for the anchors for my air compressor. I don't have a low rpm drill, nor do I own any masonry drill bits. I easily could have spent $100 on a good drill and a bit, but that's kind of expensive for three holes. Instead I called my uncle who I knew had the tools. That cost me $0 and I got he job done faster than trying to use the wrong tool and cheaper than buying a tool I didn't need.