Cheap tools

[Moose-LandTran]

Since this thread is basically over what have we gotten out of it?

I think what I got out of this thread was there is no reason to buy fresh strawberries when you can get frozen strawberries from the store that tastes like strawberries. After all a strawberry is a strawberry and any old strawberry will get the job done!

I think we improved the thread!

I still maintain that we should all buy whatever strawberries we want!

Seems like someone asks what strawberry to buy, and one crowd says you gotta buy blueberries, they cheaper, then another crowd says you gotta buy some more expensive raspberries.

 

[sberry]

Its got a drawer or 2 of stuff we use occasionally but is mostly duplication, there is another one you can see to the left for some more specialty stuff we collected or made. The tall one was so heavy as I said took the wheels off, couldn't really roll it and don't need to anyway. The majority of the tools we really use are on carts of some sort.
Being in my own shop is one reason I can get by with a box as my main I bought used for 75$ 25 yrs ago, some of the stuff I had intended on replacement or upgrade and it worked out well enough there was no need to.
I still want one of the General 44's though, my old Cman is pretty worn out from overloading, I stripped a 5 gallon pail of stuff out of it I didn't use the other day which helped it a lot. I took a bucket to a couple others too and gained a couple drawers, I havnt used a speed handle in years, had one whole drawer full and a few faulty ratchets not worth fixing.
I am sure Harold there looks kind of amateur to all the "professional techs" though.

 

[sberry]

You got to wonder how we ever made it with being deprived to the point I only set foot on a truck twice? But the box in this pic was the first with an SK socket set I still have the ratchet to. I think I bought the mid when I bought the other big set.

 

[redwrench60]

Since this thread is basically over what have we gotten out of it?

I think what I got out of this thread was there is no reason to buy fresh strawberries when you can get frozen strawberries from the store that tastes like strawberries. After all a strawberry is a strawberry and any old strawberry will get the job done!

I love the comparison, it's perfect. If you're not a fan of strawberries then one could give two craps what strawberries to get. On the other hand if you love strawberries (like me) then it's worth getting the huge, fresh, deep red berries from the strawberry farm down the road from me.

Bottom line: If you really need or prefer a particular thing be it tools or strawberries then you'll do what it takes to get what you like. If it really doesn't matter than any old thing will do. To some it matters.

 

[Fretters]

I like the look of your workshop. Seems to have a nice cosy look to it, instead of being too clinical like a lot of places are these days.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I love the comparison, it's perfect. If you're not a fan of strawberries then one could give two craps what strawberries to get. On the other hand if you love strawberries (like me) then it's worth getting the huge, fresh, deep red berries from the strawberry farm down the road from me.

Bottom line: If you really need or prefer a particular thing be it tools or strawberries then you'll do what it takes to get what you like. If it really doesn't matter than any old thing will do. To some it matters.

If only everyone understood.

 

[sberry]

My place is like a giant pair of Vise Grips, pretty simple, not to highly technical but we could be doing something different 5 minutes from now and I really focus on duty cycle, if its something we do often we prepare or tailor for it, I am willing to tolerate a little inconvenience for more one off functions.
I am the shop, when I hire I provide it all and some of it is used so frequently it doesn't have a home or is on a cart vs pulling drawers every time we need a 9/16. Same for duplication, I can almost feel it when someone walks off with one of my Channelock 440 and I got probably 6 pairs. Same for nut drivers, they are near continuous, I buy a couple new 5/16 every season along with retractable razor knives which are getting worn and low now.
Our days are funny, all of a suden there were 5 3/4 wrenches here this morning and half a dozen 9/16, they show back up burt we do it without thinking about it till I come sit here.

 

[sberry]

My goal is empty shop and had a competitor stop the other day and he asked what we were working on. We had just moved a project and a couple guys in this place working on a couple golf carts doesn't look busy.
I do some in gang fashion, all carts, all tractors etc especially where I got to cope with dealer order parts. Cars not so bad, there is the pit stop stuff then the general complete service.
I had a busy streak a while back, 7 people all on different projects in different trades.

 

[ij72]

I know snapoff may be pricy, but keep in mind,98% of what's labeled "snap on" is actually made in Kenosha

If only that were true!

SO shut down the Kenosha plant a decade ago, and moved the work to more economically-viable plants.

 

[joedodge]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[DodgeMech]

If only that were true!

SO shut down the Kenosha plant a decade ago, and moved the work to more economically-viable plants.

Really? Down here in the south without unions I hope?

 

[Grimly]

I used to have a rammed 26" top chest as well. I remember once putting it in the car to move it. I couldn't lift it out though, had to get someone to help me.

It was lifing toolchests in an out of Transits that finally did for my back. Been doing it for years and one time just did it wrong.
Never been the same since and I've always been careful to either get help or some way of doing it more safely.

Be feking careful out there - your continued good health is what keeps you earning.

 

[monomach]

Ugh. Why do cheap tools vs expensive tools arguments keep happening?

Harbor Freight has some tools that are absolutely professional quality and some that make nice paper weights. If you know what to buy, you can make a living using some of their tools at work with no problem. If you don't know what to avoid, you'll be making multiple warranty trips each day and may end up with some ****** knuckles. You bought a Pittsburgh Pro impact set? Good job. You saved a ton of cash and got top notch sockets (this is only for the Pro set, mind you...the regular Pittsburgh set is trash). You bought Pittsburgh line wrenches? You're a sucker who should have bought Snap-on (seriously, after all these years there is still no substitute for Snappy line wrenches if you live in a rusting area).

Same for Lowes' Kobalt.

Same for Sears' Craftsman.

Same for Gearwrench.

The inarguable truth is that anyone who buys everything from Snap-on is an idiot and anyone who buys everything from Harbor Freight is a different kind of idiot. That's it. Game over. Anyone who argues against that should be publicly shamed and made to wear a helmet.

P.S. - I saw Wal-Mart brought up. If you're talking Durasteel...I have yet to see a piece from that line I would trust at work (or home, for that matter). They're closer to being toys.

 

[ij72]

Really? Down here in the south without unions I hope?

Much it went to Milwaukee, some to TN (IIRC).

Now, Milwaukee Tools 20-some years ago (I was in college in Milwaukee at the time) - that was a case of them shutting the Milwaukee facilities and moving everything down to the cheap labor pool of the Southern states (MS, I think). Big deal here at the time.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

It was lifing toolchests in an out of Transits that finally did for my back. Been doing it for years and one time just did it wrong.
Never been the same since and I've always been careful to either get help or some way of doing it more safely.

Be feking careful out there - your continued good health is what keeps you earning.

It's pulling gearboxes using a cradle/basket gearbox jack that's killing mine. Just the other day ordered a new gearbox jack through Snap-on. £360, but it'll make the job so much easier and will take the strain of handling the big gearboxes on Audis and stuff so my back doesn't have to.

 

[Givl Reggin]

Penn and Teller take a look at our obsession with having the best of everything...

 

[Fretters]

It was lifing toolchests in an out of Transits that finally did for my back. Been doing it for years and one time just did it wrong.
Never been the same since and I've always been careful to either get help or some way of doing it more safely.

Be feking careful out there - your continued good health is what keeps you earning.

I got caught out lifting a telly years ago. Perfect lifting style, but just didn't realise how heavy the thing was and I must've twisted slightly or something. Heard it pop. Ironically, it's silly things like sitting down leaning over the workbench now which set it off. Lifting, lugging etc. I can do merrily for ever and a day with barely a twinge, but lean over something for any length of time and it kills.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I got caught out lifting a telly years ago. Perfect lifting style, but just didn't realise how heavy the thing was and I must've twisted slightly or something. Heard it pop. Ironically, it's silly things like sitting down leaning over the workbench now which set it off. Lifting, lugging etc. I can do merrily for ever and a day with barely a twinge, but lean over something for any length of time and it kills.

Working in poorly-equipped workshops has done a number on mine, screwing about with **** gearbox jacks and lifting gearboxes up and shoving them in myself has caused problems.

Now i just buy what i need and don't worry about the cost. You can't buy a new back, so i buy the equipment instead.

***** having back problems at 25, doing a giant Audi gearbox last week really made it hurt.

 

[Fretters]

Now i just buy what i need and don't worry about the cost. You can't buy a new back, so i buy the equipment instead.

That's a good philosophy. You won't get anything but pain trying to be manly about it.

***** having back problems at 25, doing a giant Audi gearbox last week really made it hurt.

Roughly the same age as I was, thinking about it. It was around '97 or '98 when I did mine, and it definitely doesn't get any better. You do learn to work around it somewhat though.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

That's a good philosophy. You won't get anything but pain trying to be manly about it.

Unfortunately it was only about getting the job done, not impressing anyone. Not that me lifting a gearbox would impress anyone anyway!

Also another excuse to buy more equipment!

Roughly the same age as I was, thinking about it. It was around '97 or '98 when I did mine, and it definitely doesn't get any better. You do learn to work around it somewhat though.

With it seeming to be clutch season here, it's not getting much better. Luckily i should have the new jack on Thursday so i can put it to work soon.

It does **** when you have to work around back pain, or mid-job you twist and it suddenly gets you. Doing my mate's Audi gearbox, half way through it really started to hurt, and i still had to put the box back in and finish the job. I got out of there at half 1 in the morning, and have never been so glad to sit in the comfy seat in my car for the drive home!

Where in South Yorkshire are you? A good friend of mine, and fellow member on here, is a little north of you near Wakefield, he's a tool dealer and has lots of interesting tools on his van!

 

[signcrafter]

It's pulling gearboxes using a cradle/basket gearbox jack that's killing mine. Just the other day ordered a new gearbox jack through Snap-on. £360, but it'll make the job so much easier and will take the strain of handling the big gearboxes on Audis and stuff so my back doesn't have to.

But why snap on when a cheaper one would have worked?

 

[Fretters]

It does **** when you have to work around back pain, or mid-job you twist and it suddenly gets you. Doing my mate's Audi gearbox, half way through it really started to hurt, and i still had to put the box back in and finish the job. I got out of there at half 1 in the morning, and have never been so glad to sit in the comfy seat in my car for the drive home!

One thing I've found handy on occasion is one of those elasticated back belts. Can't remember the name of them, but they look similar to a weighlifters belt but they're made from elasticated fabric with a velcro fastener.

Where in South Yorkshire are you? A good friend of mine, and fellow member on here, is a little north of you near Wakefield, he's a tool dealer and has lots of interesting tools on his van!

I'm a gnat's south of him. Barnsley. Tools on a van? That sounds expensive.

 

[Fretters]

Was the respray just a general sprucing up session or had it had some work done on it which necessitated a respray?

 

[Moose-LandTran]

But why snap on when a cheaper one would have worked?

Well technically Bluepoint..

I actually wanted the Gray/OTC one, but they're into the thousands before the shipping and import tax.

Y'know, my friend said the same, referring to a jack he bought. I need to get you a pic of this rickety *************. I wouldn't trust it to support my lunch, let alone a gearbox. Before my dealer located this one, i was looking at a used one, he said he'd rather trust a new cheap one than a used expensive one. I'm the opposite!

One thing I've found handy on occasion is one of those elasticated back belts. Can't remember the name of them, but they look similar to a weighlifters belt but they're made from elasticated fabric with a velcro fastener.

I need to get one of those, it's exactly what i need. Thanks!

I'm a gnat's south of him. Barnsley. Tools on a van? That sounds expensive.

Actually not all that expensive, he has a very nice selection of tools and they're well priced. In fact, i should make the journey up the M1 and throw some more money at him soon!

 

[Fretters]

Does he just deal in new tools or older stuff too? I'm one of those weirdo types who only buys old tools generally. New/modern tools are only bought out of necessity.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Does he just deal in new tools or older stuff too? I'm one of those weirdo types who only buys old tools generally. New/modern tools are only bought out of necessity.

Just new i think, but lots of tools.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/member.php?u=32369

 

[Fretters]

Cheers. I'll bookmark him just in case. I take it Cornwell is decent stuff?

 

[Hantke]

My school wasn't bad about it. But it was also an aviation tech school in south Georgia where most of the boys there were about dirt poor. We had all of our tools provided for us by the school and we turned them back in when it was all said and done.

I'm not a fan of carts just because of my line of work, I'm always having to move my box around... I'd hate to have a second box to move around.

As for paying outright, it's not a bad idea. I buy all my handtools outright. But I did finance my box for the sole reason of building up my credit (I'm pretty young, I've only had credit for 3 years). I pay $250 a week on my box at 14% interest. At my high payment rates, I should save myself alot of that interest.

That's a very good reason NOT to get a cart, i'm fairly sure one of the semi guys at CAT's box is roughly the size of an apartment (exaggeration), but seriously, it was fricking ridiculous! the mini fridge was a nice touch though, and i really appreciated the hutch with walls lined with power tools, but i think it was more of a "power display" than anything, I don't see a need to back-light my tools . I'm guessing your'e pushing around a 2-3 bay 6s? kinda curious because i know my single bay was HEAVY when i added the top chest, I would hate to push one of those around!! guess hard work builds character?


Those elastic belts, try looking for ones made for movers

 

[Hantke]

Even found it at harbor freight!

 

[sberry]

The tractor needed paint, its a 67 or 68 and all this runs together but I reman the engine in 91 maybe and that may have been the 3rd one? I think I might have blasted a little color on it then but they were really worn and I painted 3 of them.
I was wondering the ages of some of the posters here. I bought a set of WTGrant wrenches when I was about 10 and one had something made out of it and seen the last one somewhere not too long ago, I think what finally put it out was it got left in a tool box and rusted maybe, never did break one.
I didn't own any real import stuff till about 90 or so and still don't have a lot but we got a few things that got blended and now don't give it a second thought. Cheap pliers have not really come of age yet, probably for a couple reasons but partially because some sprout engineer figures he knows better when they tell him to copy a Channelock, he changes it just a little.
The cutting edges on others just don't hold when abused and you can ruin a Klein too but it takes longer. I did manage to ruin a Channelock side cutter, its kind of a girly thing though I bought on sale.
If I read this right Moose is 25? We got impact sockets we bought over the counter at a parts store that been in hard service that old and a cman set maybe 35 been really battered by hi power impacts and they still work.
The adjustables really surprised me though, one of the first I ever used was in 80 or so where some company had bought some at a flea, must have been India and I was a smart azz anyway and twisted the jaw right off, they were useless and I welded it up to the ceiling in some machine we were working on.
I did manage to break a couple MIT or HF combo using them as backup for impact on rusted clamp bolts, I might have got lazy and used the jaw vs the box, I don't recall exact but it was in the hundreds, probably thousands of cycles.
I don't think I ever broke a cman combo and I really tried a while back with a cheater pipe and own one wrench with a spread jaw and its a snap, someone working for me did it.

 

[Conductor562]

First and foremost, I did not read the majority of the 11 pages that the intuition afforded me by my couple of years here tells me is likely a ******* match beyond belief.

That being said, for as long as GJ continues to exist, the cheap tool vs. Pro tool debate will continue. It's a civil war. Long after those who lost a job in a manufacturing plant to a Chinaman have moved on or died there will still be those of us who struggle to accept the end result fate has dealt us.

The truth of the matter is that the answer is to deeply individualized to ever hash out here. There will always be the guy that advocates high quality tools because he appreciates the finer details. On the contrary, there will always be the guy that pushes cheap tools for one reason or another, and every other guy in between. Consequently, these different types of users will inevitably meet in this thread or the next and when they do, there will be a ******* match.

Again, the correct answer lies solely upon the individual. If you want to buy cheap tools go right ahead. It's your money, do as you wish, but don't try to tell me your HF wrench set is just as good as my Proto set, because it isn't. You may not need a high quality wrench, and for your needs the cheap wrench may work just fine, but don't insult my intelligence pretending like you got an equal quality wrench for 1/10th of the cost, because you didn't.

People here have an instinctive need to seek justification for their purchases. I don't know why, but they do. If someone asks for a recommendation on a good ????, I'm going to give them one based on my experience and within the perimeters of their question to the greatest extent possible. Nevertheless, some jacknut, despite the fact that the OP clearly stated he wanted a USA made item, is going to come along and try to tell him all the reasons some Taiwan tool is just as good or vice versa.

There's always going to be the guy that believes nothing short of Snap-On is good enough for him. There's always going to be the guy that thinks people that pay Snap-On prices are suckers. The truth is somewhere in between.

When you ask for opinions that's exactly what you're going to get. You probably won't like many of them. It is what it is and it isn't going to change.

 

[sberry]

.You may not need a high quality wrench, and for your needs the cheap wrench may work just fine, but don't insult my intelligence pretending like you got an equal quality wrench for 1/10th of the cost, because you didn't.

No but my question comes down to did we get a wrench twice as good for 10x the cost,, maybe more, as high as 30x in some cases

 

[NitroSun]

Did you ever even ask a question or did you just make a statement looking for justification of a decision you've already made? Conductor 562 pretty much hit the nail on the head. Everyone is in a unique situation and has to make the decision best for himself. No one is going to read this thread and say "Hey, I've been wrong for twenty-five years! I'm going to change the way I buy tools." Make your own decisions and live with them.

 

[sberry]

I don't care what you do.

 

[joel63]

First and foremost, I did not read the majority of the 11 pages that the intuition afforded me by my couple of years here tells me is likely a ******* match beyond belief.

That being said, for as long as GJ continues to exist, the cheap tool vs. Pro tool debate will continue. It's a civil war. Long after those who lost a job in a manufacturing plant to a Chinaman have moved on or died there will still be those of us who struggle to accept the end result fate has dealt us.

The truth of the matter is that the answer is to deeply individualized to ever hash out here. There will always be the guy that advocates high quality tools because he appreciates the finer details. On the contrary, there will always be the guy that pushes cheap tools for one reason or another, and every other guy in between. Consequently, these different types of users will inevitably meet in this thread or the next and when they do, there will be a ******* match.

Again, the correct answer lies solely upon the individual. If you want to buy cheap tools go right ahead. It's your money, do as you wish, but don't try to tell me your HF wrench set is just as good as my Proto set, because it isn't. You may not need a high quality wrench, and for your needs the cheap wrench may work just fine, but don't insult my intelligence pretending like you got an equal quality wrench for 1/10th of the cost, because you didn't.

People here have an instinctive need to seek justification for their purchases. I don't know why, but they do. If someone asks for a recommendation on a good ????, I'm going to give them one based on my experience and within the perimeters of their question to the greatest extent possible. Nevertheless, some jacknut, despite the fact that the OP clearly stated he wanted a USA made item, is going to come along and try to tell him all the reasons some Taiwan tool is just as good or vice versa.

There's always going to be the guy that believes nothing short of Snap-On is good enough for him. There's always going to be the guy that thinks people that pay Snap-On prices are suckers. The truth is somewhere in between.

When you ask for opinions that's exactly what you're going to get. You probably won't like many of them. It is what it is and it isn't going to change.

I've been following this thread since the beginning and I must say it has made my head spin at times.

Many excellent points have been made, but still I can't believe it has gone on this long.

Basically, Conductor562, well said!

 

[sberry]

Who woulda thunk it?

 

[signcrafter]

And here I am still trying to figure out if I need to spend extra money to buy fresh strawberries this summer or if I can just go to the store and buy the cheap ones? The cheaper ones still taste like strawberries so why spend extra money on fresh quality strawberries when the cheap stuff will get the job done? All strawberry farms are out to screw you over by charging more for fresh strawberries. One berry farm owner even told me he goes by the same idea snap on does. But then turns around and says higher priced "berries" are a waste of money and nobody needs to buy them. Sure seems like if everyone applied his logic to everything in life his farm would be out of business.

I try to project the same idea Snapon does.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

And here I am still trying to figure out if I need to spend extra money to buy fresh strawberries this summer or if I can just go to the store and buy the cheap ones? The cheaper ones still taste like strawberries so why spend extra money on fresh quality strawberries when the cheap stuff will get the job done? All strawberry farms are out to screw you over by charging more for fresh strawberries. One berry farm owner even told me he goes by the same idea snap on does. But then turns around and says higher priced "berries" are a waste of money and nobody needs to buy them. Sure seems like if everyone applied his logic to everything in life his farm would be out of business.

I'm gonna go to the supermarket later and check the COO of their strawberries. I bet they're selling imported **** at grown in England prices.

 

[bodyguy16]

i'm gonna go to the supermarket later and check the coo of their strawberries. I bet they're selling imported **** at grown in england prices.

lmfao !!!!

 

[Conductor562]

No but my question comes down to did we get a wrench twice as good for 10x the cost,, maybe more, as high as 30x in some cases

Sometimes we do, other times not, it all just depends. Tools are no different than any other consumer product. Will a Chevy S-10 get me to work and back same as a Super Duty Diesel for a fraction of the cost? Sure it will. Does that mean the S-10 is just as good a truck? No it doesn't. If my only objective is to get back and forth as cheaply as possible and haul small loads on occasion then I'm probably just as well off with with the S-10, but if I'm going to haul bigger loads or pull a bigger trailer on a regular basis and need it to last forever I'm not going to be satisfied with the S-10.

Will a $150 suit from JCPenney's serve me just as well as a $2000 tailored suit? If my only objective for it is to no look like a jake carrying Uncle Bob's casket from the hearse to the grave then yes, but if I have a $5,000,000 sale on the line I want to make an impression.

The same example can be used for virtually any product.

I'll be the first person to admit that I don't NEED Proto quality in many instances. I don't make a living with my tools. I wrench for pleasure and to maintain my tractor and equipment. Some tools get used several times a week, some once a month, some rarely. However, whether I'm using it once a day or once in a blue moon, my Proto stuff makes me happy. When I reach in my box and pull out a Proto wrench I feel good about my tools, I don't get that sense of pride and enjoyment out of A Pittsburgh wrench. I like Proto and I can afford it. Does that make the Proto worth it's price compared to the HF? Maybe not to everyone, but it does to me. I realize that isn't everyone's situation, and I respect that. People will buy what suits them same as I do.

I'm probably not going to change anyone's mind in regards to how they purchase tools with this post or any other and I can assure you nobody is going to change mine. Thus goes another day on GJ.