Cheap weld setup?

[nichocha33]

I’m a decent mechanic and good with my hands but never cared to learn to weld, well the time has come, tired of asking friends to run a bead for me.

Buying the HF Titanium flux core setup to try my hand, also looking for an auto darkening hood. I can get a metal man from TSC for about $50, is the hood sufficient for me learning and occasionally using it for small jobs? Any other suggestions? Like yo keep the budget small Incase I don’t enjoy it or stick with it.


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[Jagmandave]

I think it's a mistake to start off with the cheapest stuff, just to see if you like welding.

It really depends on what you're going to weld of course but I always recommend gas, not flux core. Better, smoother welds and less time on cleanup. Buying a cheap welder just to replace it later seems like false economy. Why not buy a used good welder for just a bit more, and get good results from the get go?

 

[nichocha33]

I think it's a mistake to start off with the cheapest stuff, just to see if you like welding.



It really depends on what you're going to weld of course but I always recommend gas, not flux core. Better, smoother welds and less time on cleanup. Buying a cheap welder just to replace it later seems like false economy. Why not buy a used good welder for just a bit more, and get good results from the get go?

What would you suggest for a good mig gas setup no more than 500, around a Houston if that helps.


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[nichocha33]

The gas is of no value to you.
It's fine for welding in a confined space with no wind.

The cleanup is minimally different between the two, and you're not doing production work so I'm pretty sure the fifteen seconds per foot of weld lean up isn't a thing.
Tanks cost, take up room and leave you stranded when they're empty.


Buy an inexpensive unit, by the Flux core that works everywhere.
Everyone is a rocket precissionist and they think every newb needs the best.

Buy that welder and weld some things.
Sell it later if you want better. But you won't. That silly little hf 120v u it bought 15 years ago is still the best machine for some jobs. Try welding someone's car door hinge with a gas setup in their front yard....
If you're a good welder with it, you'll likely never need better.

Go get a welder and weld.
False economy is waiting instead of doing.

Damn y’all have me torn now, I liked the idea of flux for no gas and the size. I know I can grow into a mig better but I’m bothered by paying $500 and using it twice a year


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[lis2323]

Damn y’all have me torn now, I liked the idea of flux for no gas and the size. I know I can grow into a mig better but I’m bothered by paying $500 and using it twice a year


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The alternative is spend less, try it once, hate it, and never use again.

 

[Schurkey]

Find a community college or "Adult Education" course that teaches welding basics. Learn on THEIR equipment, not yours.

tired of asking friends to run a bead for me.

You've got friends who weld. Pay them something, and have them teach you what they can.

looking for an auto darkening hood. I can get a metal man from TSC for about $50, is the hood sufficient for me learning and occasionally using it for small jobs? Any other suggestions? Like yo keep the budget small Incase I don’t enjoy it or stick with it.

And for Fook's sake, make CERTAIN to buy the cheapest, crappiest, Chinese auto-darkening welding helmet you can find. When it fails and you go blind, you just catch a ride to the hospital and get an eye transplant. I bet insurance will even cover it, so you can save even more money.

 

[aaronrkelly]

I was in the same spot....problem is, the cheapest of the cheap makes the job harder, results poorer and when you dont have the skill to compensate - its goes poorly.

Im a ****** welder.....so I didnt want to start fighting uphill.

I think for a budget welder- Hobart Handler. I got my setup on sale for $400. Grabbed a tank on Facebook marketplace and was going for under $550 with a helmet.

 

[Jagmandave]

That's what I was saying, buy a used name brand welder......but you all missed the first part of my post, it depends on what he's going to weld, doesn't it?

If he's doing plug welds in sheet metal to repair the body on a car, that's one thing. If he's trying to weld 1/2" metal, that's quite another

 

[c39er]

Buy a HF flux core cheap mig.
Then show us how good your welding is and how easy it is to clean up slag.
But first watch some welding sites like weld.com/ or weldingtipsandtricks.com

 

[anndel]

Hobart Handler 140 is a better start.

 

[goblue1998]

I had a poor experience learning on flux core. MIG welding with gas is much easier to learn on. At least that was my experience.

I second the community college class idea. I learned a lot there, but the biggest benefit was using their equipment (and a variety of equipment).

 

[sberry]

The Hobart is good, the HF hood is good, I like it better than a couple "better" ones I had. I am all for economy tools, some work well, some dont. Buy a better machine and you will use it more than 2 times a year. Garage shelves all over are storage for those chincy flux core machines.

 

[510ebl]

I am strictly an amateur when it comes to welding, but I was in your position once.

My first machine was a 120v, used, flux core that was convertible to gas. I learned with flux core, got frustrated, and installed the add on kit. I used that machine until it died.

The next machine (my current one) I also bought used for half of the price of new. I think it was $600 shipped, without a bottle for a 240V Millermatic. I hooked up the old bottle and WOW what a difference!

I do miss being able to plug in "anywhere" like I could with the 120v machine, but for me the capability of the 240V machine far outweighs the minor inconvenience.

Budget for a high quality extension cord, no matter what you buy.

 

[u2slow]

I took a cheesy night-school welding class when I was ~20yo. It gave me the confidence and basic skills to start using the MIG we had at work. (Prob didn't need the class, but it was good experience nonetheless.)

At $500 budget, I would buy a used, larger machine, and learn to wire a 240V circuit. You can find some good deals because the numbers on the machines have changed. An old/large '130-160' machine is often on par with a modern '2xx' model.

Going new, I'd suggest some of the 120/240 dual voltage machines. They will run you ~$1000 though.

 

[510ebl]

Going new, I'd suggest some of the 120/240 dual voltage machines. They will run you ~$1000 though.

Had I the resources at the time, I would have gone this route. There were a couple of years that we rented and adding a 240V receptacle was not allowed. I had several instances when the welder would have been helpful there. Also, being able to drag the kit to a different location would have been good.

On the other hand, nobody asks me to "bring the welder over real quick" because they know they don't have any place to plug it in

 

[bczygan]

I’m a decent mechanic and good with my hands but never cared to learn to weld, well the time has come, tired of asking friends to run a bead for me.

Buying the HF Titanium flux core setup to try my hand, also looking for an auto darkening hood. I can get a metal man from TSC for about $50, is the hood sufficient for me learning and occasionally using it for small jobs? Any other suggestions? Like yo keep the budget small Incase I don’t enjoy it or stick with it.


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What exactly kind of beads do you want to do?

Bill

 

[sberry]

Depends on how a guy is with used shopping. Some are really good, some not so much. I have bought a lot of used, some good, some not so much.
My cousin just bought a 140, had 1/2 the only 2# spool ever ran thru it, bottle gloves, some other ****, 150$. I would have bought it at that rate too. I think a lot of guys here should have a 200 class as the first machine but my cousin is just fine with a 140 and rightly so.

 

[Stooge]

its all dependent on what you have plans to weld. Car stuff, sheet metal, etc, go with gas capability in my opinion, but fixing an old gate or sticking a bracket to a trailer or something where it just needs to stay put and will be done outside, flux core makes sense.

My suggestion for a first mig machine, for relatively small expense, for stuff around the house and shop, is always the Hobart 140. Can be had new for a hair under $500, not including tank, but including the gas regulators, so you can run flux core, but if the need or want arises, you have the ability to invest in a tank and be up and running.

I dont know about the Tractor supply helmets, ive used the black harbor freight helmet for an afternoon once after grabbing it as a backupor for visitors, and had pretty bad eye fatigue/pain afterwards so its sat on top of a cabinet since then. I do suggest finding a name brand one, even a black miller classic can be had for $70 on cyberweld and is something i would have more confidence in.

 

[sberry]

The 70$ Miller isn't going to be any better than the 50$ HF. I think I got one from the Tractor store about the same price, havnt opened it yet but I like the HF so well that I havnt done anything else. Like any hood make sure they don't leak. The auto off/on works super good on the HF, I had a Miller I over paid for that was kind of wonky.

 

[Stooge]

The 70$ Miller isn't going to be any better than the 50$ HF. I think I got one from the Tractor store about the same price, havnt opened it yet but I like the HF so well that I havnt done anything else. Like any hood make sure they don't leak.

probably, but as I said, I don't have any experience with the tractor supply helmet, but my experience with cheap helmets has been less than positive, so im not going to make anecdotal claims that someone's eyes will probably be fine with the cheap no name hood because its probably the same as something else.

 

[sberry]

They make these by the millions. If there was a problem there would be lawyers standing in line.

 

[sberry]

I don't have any experience with the tractor supply helmet

With the Miller either. I have 100's of hours on HF,,, more on a Miller, its not anecdotal. I got none pother than a few beads on 300$ hoods. They are ok, just don't have the experience with all those models and not enough time on them to really have a reliable solid opinion.
Maybe I would find one I liked better than either the Miller or the HF but I like the HF better than the Miller despite the bit smaller window. It was easier to fit a cheater in for one thing.

 

[sberry]

There are a lot of things on this forum I don't comment on, one on this page is reversible ratcheting wrenches, wouldn't know one from another but I am always curious when someones experience is different than mine with the same tool.
Adjustable wrenches,,, thousands and thousands, supervised thousands more across most brands. Even notice the subtle difference in 7R Vise Grip a few years apart, not exactly the same.
Another think about the HF, headgear outlasted several Jacksons of old. Not sure why, it just has. Maybe I have became more careful.

 

[sberry]

Expense is equated with quality by those with no experience.

This is not aimed at a fine member like Stooge but its more true than ever to some extent. The salesman at the LWS sold me a Miller hood in a hurry, good job for him and they needed to make a little money but it was a cheap hood with a label on it. Was my first spin around the auto hoods and I wanted it now, didn't negotiate. It earned its keep, it wasn't a bad thing just the same as the others I have since compared, this happened over about 15 years maybe.
This is the whole thing that interests me about the forum and these tools,,, what is the belief and what is accurate. When I hear, every MIT wrench I ever used has rounded off the nuts and busted a knuckle I got to wonder,,, what is the guy doing different than I am,,, is it speculative, lots of this comes from experienced men, some more expert than I am. When I beat it with a 20oz nail hammer, use them abusively for decades, examine the fit, never break one I got to wonder how valid the opinion is.
I remember early on this forum some socket discussion about an early HF set, it very closely mirrored my own, I had to figure it was valid. A couple guys had the same experience, same time frame, same set. Scared me off for a while, at the time might have said they were all that way, when I tried again they had discontinued it and replaced it with better, others had the same experience,,, guys that used them in the same manor.
I am about a step or class up from the hobby crowd. I got a few things many dont, use is a bit higher, if they got 3/4 I might need an inch. But if my 1/2 air line works I suspect it will work for them too, same for most utilities and general tools. We had a guy come here,,, great he wants to buy snaps but the reasoning was he had delicate hands and didn't want to hurt himself. He got a lot of,,,, you go girl,,, type cheering on and I can say from experience have never had a Sears wrench hurt me and have used them in ag and oilfield, got absolutely thousands of cycles on them and if the guy hurts himself it wont have much to do with the wrench,,,, this isn't just an opinion but a fact if we believe actual statistics. But he read and "researched" and figured all that led to some informed expertise.

 

[scubadoober]

120V mig welder can't do much over body work and LIGHT fab. However, your budget is only for the machine. Do you have a way to cut metal? A grinder and cutoff wheel gets old quick if you have even a little structural to cut. Do you have a table to weld on? What is your steel budget? It all adds up and is more than just a welder. Ask any high school welding teacher.

 

[sberry]

I will have to say I have seen a fair number of cheap migs with 1 use on the shelf and used to get requests for help with them which I just dont fuss with. I have worked a little in sales, sell a guy a Hobart, sell him a hood, gas bottle, spare tips, extra roll of wire. Sell him a solar type, 1 2# roll of flux core to go with it a 10$ hood and never see them again or he is back the next day wondering wtf and trying to return it,,, 5% of the sales and 95% of the problems but the store loves it, huge margin, they pay 59$ for it, sells for 169, looks great on the books when the margin is 100 on a 500$ Hobart but the accountant doesn't read the rest of the sales slip or realize that the guy comes back for another roll of wire next week.

 

[sberry]

120V mig welder can't do much over body work and LIGHT fab.

This is certainly somewhat true but the farther I go the more I have come to respect it may be adequate. I am a fan of the 240V machines also, it certainly has substantially more punch and allows the use of a larger wire, way better circuit for welding. Not only is it a more powerful machine but there is some value math in its favor. Its not as good as it was due to the fact that they have used all these new features to drive the price up but when we get back to some of the basic models it shows back up. 500$ for a 140 and a 180 is 2x the machine for 300 more,,, and as was mentioned just above it can be a rather small part of the equation when we consider the accys.
Little more money,,, lots more power and capacity.

 

[Kenstone1]

I’m a decent mechanic and good with my hands but never cared to learn to weld, well the time has come, tired of asking friends to run a bead for me.

Buying the HF Titanium flux core setup to try my hand, also looking for an auto darkening hood. I can get a metal man from TSC for about $50, is the hood sufficient for me learning and occasionally using it for small jobs? Any other suggestions? Like yo keep the budget small Incase I don’t enjoy it or stick with it.

I have and use that HF welder that was a step-up from the HF AC flux core that I had converted to DC negative.
The Titanium has more controls (heat as well as wire speed) and is much more user friendly imo.
An auto darkening hood is also a must have.

There are a lot of how-to vids on Youtube, many are professionally done by Miller/Lincoln/Hobart/etc.

I like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=iD7Y57gK3yU

or these:https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+flux+weld+metal+for+beginners

You'll get many who will poopoo anything HF but I have had good luck with both of their welders to date and I have used other high dollar welders in the past, welders my employer bought.
There's a recent thread about "helmets too:https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443152

 

[scubadoober]

This is certainly somewhat true but the farther I go the more I have come to respect it may be adequate. I am a fan of the 240V machines also, it certainly has substantially more punch and allows the use of a larger wire, way better circuit for welding. Not only is it a more powerful machine but there is some value math in its favor. Its not as good as it was due to the fact that they have used all these new features to drive the price up but when we get back to some of the basic models it shows back up. 500$ for a 140 and a 180 is 2x the machine for 300 more,,, and as was mentioned just above it can be a rather small part of the equation when we consider the accys.
Little more money,,, lots more power and capacity.

100% agree, I am just trying to illustrate what it takes. The OP needs to be honest and ask himself what his goals are. Welders should not be an impulse buy. Everyone thinks they NEED a welder, and would have all these fun projects. A 120V would probably suit him just fine. It's like buying a project car that doesn't run because "it only cost $500". Odds are it is going to sit unused just like your new welder unless you have a game plan.

 

[lis2323]

100% agree, I am just trying to illustrate what it takes. The OP needs to be honest and ask himself what his goals are. Welders should not be an impulse buy. Everyone thinks they NEED a welder, and would have all these fun projects. A 120V would probably suit him just fine. It's like buying a project car that doesn't run because "it only cost $500". Odds are it is going to sit unused just like your new welder unless you have a game plan.

Agreed. But also some times a game plan becomes apparent when the individual discovers newfound confidence with his new (quality) tool.

 

[Stooge]

Who would have thought recommending a good mid range machine that i've had 2 of and still currently have one, a hobart 140, and suggesting to maybe not buy the cheapest welding helmet, while volunteering that i am ignorant on the specific helmet in the original post, but citing my personal experience with a low end welding helmet that i would be a newb whos just thinking that expense equals quality. All the time in my project threads, i am talking about being on a budget, doing things lowbuck and getting by with what i can afford. Theres nothing fancy about anything i have, but i try to spend where i think it counts. For what its worth, ive had several miller helmets, even got a free digital elite when they came out because i work for an ITW company, though i eventually sold because i didnt need it, and my every day helmet for the last 6+ yrs has been a Hobart that probably sells for $80, if they havent discontinued it already.

 

[sberry]

There are so many good guys on this forum its hard to keep it all straight. Its easy to jump on one part of a thread without getting it in context, guilty here. Certainly not meant to be personal but living proof if a thread goes on long enough it can turn to ****,,, guilty again on my behalf.
Ok,,, btw,,, what itw co?

 

[lis2323]

There are so many good guys on this forum its hard to keep it all straight. Its easy to jump on one part of a thread without getting it in context, guilty here. Certainly not meant to be personal but living proof if a thread goes on long enough it can turn to ****,,, guilty again on my behalf.
Ok,,, btw,,, what itw co?

I wouldn’t worry. Happens to all of us at some point. It’s whether or not we acknowledge our indiscretions that matters more.

JMHO of course.

 

[Stooge]

There are so many good guys on this forum its hard to keep it all straight. Its easy to jump on one part of a thread without getting it in context, guilty here. Certainly not meant to be personal but living proof if a thread goes on long enough it can turn to ****,,, guilty again on my behalf.
Ok,,, btw,,, what itw co?

No problems here, happens to all of us i would imagine, and thanks for inferring im one of the good guys!
And to clarify, when i said anecdotal, i meant that if i said something about the tractor supply helmet, it would be anecdotal for me, as i dont have any experience with that, and i try not to comment on things im unfamiliar with, not something that you said would be anecdotal.

I work for Instron owned by ITW, its primarily a materials testing manufacturer, been around since the '40s, and i currently work in one of the laboratories there, though ive worked for several other groups here.

 

[nichocha33]

What exactly kind of beads do you want to do?



Bill

Well seein as I’ve never welded beads might be a stretch. I’ll probably never weld over 1/4” and mostly sheet metal or thin steel for brackets and such


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[lis2323]

. I think you can get by with almost any helmet out there, just need to pick the luxury level you are willing to pay for.

AGREED! This is the best summation on helmets I have read so far. I welded on the farm with a passive lens helmet for over 30 years and it is my opinion any PROPERLY FUNCTIONING auto dark helmet will do.

I recently picked up these TWO used AD helmets for $10 Cdn. ( $7 USD) just because....






even though I have others

 

[nichocha33]

AGREED! This is the best summation on helmets I have read so far. I welded on the farm with a passive lens helmet for over 30 years and it is my opinion any PROPERLY FUNCTIONING auto dark helmet will do.

I recently picked up these TWO used AD helmets for $10 Cdn. ( $7 USD) just because....






even though I have others

Good to know, thank you guys



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[Coach James]

I'm not going to give advice on what welder to get as I don't have the experience or knowledge to give advice that is credible. I own one welder, a Miller 135, and it has been great for what I want to do up to this point.

I went the "take a class" route before getting mine. It ended up being just me and the instructor for a week at his fabrication shop, several hours a day for a week. The benefits to me were;
1. The instructor taught me gas welding first before MIG. I still have the first two pieces of steel I welded together. I can still see the hammer marks where he put it in a vise and beat it with a sledge trying to break the weld.
2. I got to use a 130, 175 and 200 amp machine. He was a Miller guy.
3. I got to spend time trouble shooting when things went wrong, and he would make sure they did.
4. Talked to me a lot about what I wanted to do and what machine would be best suited for it.
5. The instructor encouraged me to work with a welding supply store and not a big box because of the difference in the level of support.
6. Local welding supply gave a nice discount on a first welder to his students.

And that is all the people need to know.

Coach

 

[katit]

Seems like you Ot in a rush. Just start monitoring online ads and you will find something good. I was on a fence for long time. Wanted TIG but guys here all said MIG is a way to go. Another thing for me was capability. I have 220 so here it is.

Couple weeks ago I scored new in box Lincoln 180 for $350. Added tank, cord, etc and it’s $700 now. I had decent hood already.

Don’t know if this welder considered good or not but I am getting hang of it and would recommend

 

[PugetDude]

I started out with a Lincoln Buzz Box 225 stick welder, then bought a Lincoln Flux/Mig unit and welded mostly FCAW for ten years until I upgraded to a Miller 211.

Stick taught me about penetration and beads, FCAW taught me how to run a grinder, and the Miller made me a decent hobby welder.

I have a Miller Insight Autodarkening helmet. Very comfortable, no eye fatigue.

My 2 Cents on your $500 budget - buy a Lincoln 135 Easy Mig or Hobart 140 Handler, rent a bottle until you're sure you want to continue. Amazon Warehouse for a decent helmet.
Get a HF or B&D 4.5" Grinder and an assortment of grinding/cutoff and sanding wheels. You'll figure out pretty quick whether it's something you want to pursue further.

Good Luck.