“Cheater Bars” Discussion

[kaymccampbell]

Mostly I use an air wrench for recalcitrant fasteners. But, if a cheater is needed, I have a 2 footer under the bench. Longer, then it's a trip to the scrap pile. Mine are just old iron pipe or fence posts, depending on what's available. I just slide them over the breaker bar and go to town, no special precautions. Tools are meant to be used.

 

[Samuel D]

And?

And I noticed it didn’t give liliysdad a special exemption to swing on a long bar.

Generally cheater bars are a bad idea. Which is why that authority (among others) says not to use them.

Often people use long bars when a better idea would be the judicious application of heat or shock to break corrosion bonds. Even pouring a kettle of boiling water over a joint can have the desired effect. You don’t even need a torch.

 

[liliysdad]

Funny, I don’t recall ever asking some obscure textbook for permission to do anything.

 

[ThePostman]

Schedule 40 black pipe. I do keep the orange caps on the ends, and I did take a pneumatic file to the inside seam for a proper fit. I have a four foot piece that slips on the Wright 6425 extending it to almost 8ft, it's rare for that one to be used, but 2wd Toyota tundra wheel bearing locknuts can be insanely tight, and then put them back on... Then I have a three foot section, smaller diameter for the smaller stuff, if needed.

 

[RedneckWelder]

I have a 6 foot length of galvanized steel water pipe. Since we aren’t supposed to use cheater pipes I officialised it with a factory fabricated field tool number to it that translates to “Deez Nutz”

 

[RedneckWelder]

That’s from Rate Training Manual 10085-B by the US Bureau of Naval Personnel, original edition (1971), republished for a wider audience as Tools and Their Uses.

That book doesn’t care if you get a hernia from trying to do something with too little leverage.

All of these uses for cheater bars seem like manual labor to me which I've managed to avoid doing my entire life and at 71 I've got no intention of starting now. If I can't do it with my Aircat 1250K or my THOR impact I'll cut the sucker off with my plasma cutter. I hate sweating which I why I live in the desert with 15% humidity. The only thing I've ever needed to use a 24" breaker bar on was Subaru head bolts which are a foot long and are immune to impacts as they act like torque sticks.

I have to get the job done one way or another and an impact is far from the solution for everything. Sometimes I work on stuff that laughs at a 1” impact.

 

[seber]

For my short bar, I keep a DOM tube in the 1/2" drawer. If I need longer it is the handle from the handyman jack. Smooth tubes do less damage to the tool. Both have a layer of tape inside the end over a file rounded cut.

 

[MovingAlong]

Decades ago, used 6-8' pieces of 2" schedule 40 steel pipe over a 4' pipe wrench to tighten 3 & 4" pipe couplings. Still took two of us pushing on that thing to get them tight.

But most of the time I'm not using a cheater to increase torque on the tool per say, it's to reduce the amount of effort on me! Over the next 10-20 years I'll probably use them more and more too...

 

[Ike Carlson]

we used a length of square tube on my 24" crescent wrench and a good amount of heat to bend my truck bumper (1/2" steel) straight. It took heat and both of us on the end of the tube to get it to move. It got bent when I was removing a small pine stump. I chained up to it with the stump directly below the bumper, expecting the mechanical advantage to pop it loose. All I did was pick the front of the truck off the ground about 4 ft and snap a big root off the stump. That means the bumper/hitch took about 8,000 lbs of vertical force. It took about the same amount to get it straight again.

 

[HaiKarate]

I have had the same length of fence post in my garage for 30+ years. I don't know what it's made of, probably galvanized steel. I only use it as a cheater on my 3/4" drive stuff. It's a little baggy fit over the handle, but I slide it down about 15" or so, and it gives me 4-5ft of total leverage. I only need it about once a decade, lol. The last time I needed it was for a rusty hitch ball nut. I literally pushed the van sideways I was cranking so hard on it.

Hopefully I'll never need it again. I'm getting too old and fat to work that hard, lol.

This is my weapon of choice as well. I think mine is cut down to about 5 feet or so. Used many times for removing crank bolts and crushing pinion sleeves!

 

[WWheeler]

That’s from Rate Training Manual 10085-B by the US Bureau of Naval Personnel, original edition (1971), republished for a wider audience as Tools and Their Uses.

These US Navy Seabees apparently never got that memo.




TBH though, this is my most common form of cheater.

 

[garfunkle24]

Hard and fast rules like "never use a cheater bar" are mainly useful for those too inexperienced or dumb to know when it's a good idea and when it's a really bad idea.

When I'm working on the road I have what I have with me. If the breakaway torque of what I'm trying to undo exceeds the strength of whatever drive tool i'm using, I'd rather it not happen while i'm choked up pulling with all my strength.

 

[Schurkey]

My cheater-pipe is some random section of heavy-wall square tubing I grabbed from the shelf at work, cut to fit in my tool box drawer...so about 30 inches, more-or-less.

The last time I used it was on an O2 sensor on a Charger. My 24-inch long-handle 1/2" ratchet, the cheater pipe on the end of that, and TWO OF US pushing on the thing. Sounded like a .22 when it broke free. I about filled my pants. I thought we snapped the thing off. Nope. Screwed out nicely the rest of the way. (We used the long-handle ratchet and cheater pipe when a 3/4" AirCat impact wouldn't turn it.) He'd previously taken the car to professionals who couldn't get it out.

Gotta love leverage.

 

[Southern83]

Nothing can widthstand constant heat or pressure. That's a saying an old timer at work would say when we ran into something that wouldn't come loose. It's pretty accurate.

I don't like cheater bars. I prefer to call them leverage enhancement tools. I don't set out to use them but sometimes you just have to.

 

[dchawk81]

Mine is just leftover square tubing from building my welding table.

I bought it in like 8-10 foot lengths and had one leftover because I can't count.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

A short cheater pipe story. Back in the late 70's when I was just starting out I was working out in the woods on a portable crusher. It was late in a very long season and there was already a foot or two of snow on the ground. Everyone was wet and cold and we had to make some repair to one of the crushers. I think it was a set of rolls. Anyway This damn big *** nut would not come loose and was putting up one hell of a fight. It was at least two hours to town and we were working with what we had.

The old plant man came up with a plan to win this battle so we put the longest pipe we had on the wrench. It was probably around 12'-15' long. Then we had a long bar shoved in the end of the cheater pipe for extra leverage. We parked the shop truck along side the cheater so three of us could stand on it with the last guy out pulling down on the bar. The old plant man had the torch and heated the nut up to a dull red while we were getting ready.

With everything in place he snuffed the torch and stuck a 1" El-handle and socket on the ***** and we slid the pipe over the end of it. Three of us standing out as far as we could get on the pipe with a fourth on the bar and still nothing. He yells for us to bounce it while he hit what was left showing of the El-handle with a 12# sledge. Something had to give but unfortunately it was the socket.

We four on the end of the contraption all fell in a pile but out of the corner of my eye I saw the El-handle fly back and hit the plant man in the shin. We all watched amazement as he did the mad as all hell dance for several steps before focusing his anger on that damn nut. He charged it and grabbed it with both hands like he was going to choke it to death. We watched in amazement as his face changed from mere anger to a crazed rage. Nut was still near red hot so both hands were burned but at least there was a pile of snow handy.....I have seen a lot of pissed off crew over the years but his reaction set the bar pretty high for what is possible.

I still see one of the guys on from that crew on occasion and we both still break out in laughter whenever we talk about that day in the woods. A pic of that very 1" El-handle that I still have. It has won many more battles than it lost. Always with a cheater on it. Ed.

 

[Ike Carlson]

A short cheater pipe story. Back in the late 70's when I was just starting out I was working out in the woods on a portable crusher. It was late in a very long season and there was already a foot or two of snow on the ground. Everyone was wet and cold and we had to make some repair to one of the crushers. I think it was a set of rolls. Anyway This damn big *** nut would not come loose and was putting up one hell of a fight. It was at least two hours to town and we were working with what we had.

The old plant man came up with a plan to win this battle so we put the longest pipe we had on the wrench. It was probably around 12'-15' long. Then we had a long bar shoved in the end of the cheater pipe for extra leverage. We parked the shop truck along side the cheater so three of us could stand on it with the last guy out pulling down on the bar. The old plant man had the torch and heated the nut up to a dull red while we were getting ready.

With everything in place he snuffed the torch and stuck a 1" El-handle and socket on the ***** and we slid the pipe over the end of it. Three of us standing out as far as we could get on the pipe with a fourth on the bar and still nothing. He yells for us to bounce it while he hit what was left showing of the El-handle with a 12# sledge. Something had to give but unfortunately it was the socket.

We four on the end of the contraption all fell in a pile but out of the corner of my eye I saw the El-handle fly back and hit the plant man in the shin. We all watched amazement as he did the mad as all hell dance for several steps before focusing his anger on that damn nut. He charged it and grabbed it with both hands like he was going to choke it to death. We watched in amazement as his face changed from mere anger to a crazed rage. Nut was still near red hot so both hands were burned but at least there was a pile of snow handy.....I have seen a lot of pissed off crew over the years but his reaction set the bar pretty high for what is possible.

I still see one of the guys on from that crew on occasion and we both still break out in laughter whenever we talk about that day in the woods. A pic of that very 1" El-handle that I still have. It has won many more battles than it lost. Always with a cheater on it. Ed.

You can tell it gets used hard. The corners no longer line up, so jt started to shear at some point.

 

[ybnormal]

We had a 10’ cheater in the research lab that was actually calibrated. Insert the specific wrench to a specified depth. Two people, each weighing 200+lbs, place their hands in marked locations and then haul down and reset as required. When both people could hang from the cheater and there was no movement, the required torque was achieved.

We had borrowed a Sweeney to proof out the cheater, as we didn’t have 20k$ in the budget for one with the adapters we would need.

Required torque on these nuts was 1200-1400 lb/ft.

how many ugga-duggas is that?

 

[Hannahranga]

For the use the right tool crowd yeah you're not wrong but when a cheater bar is $ and a hytorc is $$$ guess what I'm using. For the home user undoing an FT crank bolt what's the right tool? Getting a decent impact on it generally requires removing the radiator/intercooler/condenser, if you're unlucky lifting up a bit if there's a frame rail in the way. Or you can just slip a pipe over a breaker bar and bob's your ankle.

There's also a lot said for not needing to strain both for not killing your body and because of the unpleasantness that can happen when something lets go while you're pulling as hard as you can.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

For those of you who dislike cheater bars, what’s the longest length breaker bar you think makes sense for:

1/2-drive
3/4-drive
1”-drive

i have a 2-foot 1/2-drive breaker bar. I assume someone might make a 3 or even 4 foot breaker. But at some point it’s too much for 1/2 drive. What are the cut offs for each drive?

 

[RedneckWelder]

For the use the right tool crowd yeah you're not wrong but when a cheater bar is $ and a hytorc is $$$ guess what I'm using. For the home user undoing an FT crank bolt what's the right tool? Getting a decent impact on it generally requires removing the radiator/intercooler/condenser, if you're unlucky lifting up a bit if there's a frame rail in the way. Or you can just slip a pipe over a breaker bar and bob's your ankle.

There's also a lot said for not needing to strain both for not killing your body and because of the unpleasantness that can happen when something lets go while you're pulling as hard as you can.

I have two hytorc tools at work…a hydraulic wrench and a pneumatic J gun. They are both wonderful, labor saving tools BUT just like a manual torque multiplier many times you aren't able to use them for lack of suitable reaction surface.

 

[AEAdam]

For those of you who dislike cheater bars, what’s the longest length breaker bar you think makes sense for:

1/2-drive
3/4-drive
1”-drive

1/2” drive is good up-to 750ftlbs. So if you could apply 200lbs, a 4’ bar sounds about right. You could use a longer bar, but you’d run the risk of breaking the drive.

3/4” drive is good to about 1500ftlbs. 1” is good to 3500ftlbs. So no practical limit to bar length, which should explain users’ experiences. A 10’ bar would work. Cheater bar bending will come into play, and cause it’s own practical limit.

 

[wkndwarrior29]

I use a laser wrench extender (6745). It predated the VIM wrench extender and does not have the soft grip - which allows a cheater pipe to slide over it. For a pipe I use a leftover piece of galvanized chain link fence rail - It's cheap, lightweight and strong enough.

 

[RedneckWelder]

For those of you who dislike cheater bars, what’s the longest length breaker bar you think makes sense for:

1/2-drive
3/4-drive
1”-drive

i have a 2-foot 1/2-drive breaker bar. I assume someone might make a 3 or even 4 foot breaker. But at some point it’s too much for 1/2 drive. What are the cut offs for each drive?

My 1/2” drive breaker bar is a 36” Snap On which is the longest length I’ve seen so far.

My 1” drive breaker bar is a 40” one. I haven’t seen anything significantly longer.

Longest cheater pipe setup I used was a 1” ratchet with my 6 foot pipe and then a track bar through that to make about a 12 foot total length to break loose front axle bolts on a skidder.

 

[redwrench60]

I love listening to the musings of people living the sheltered life under the hood of a Camry. How the hell do you get an Astro impact on a 3” pipe Union tightened by the hand of God? What about a fist sized JIC fitting? I’m not going to explode a testicle pulling on a 2 foot adjustable when I can apply extra leverage in a controlled manner to loosen or tighten something as needed.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

1/2” drive is good up-to 750ftlbs. So if you could apply 200lbs, a 4’ bar sounds about right. You could use a longer bar, but you’d run the risk of breaking the drive.

How do you know how much weight you can apply? Does it mean you weigh 200 pounds and somehow stand on the end? Is there some gym equivalent that gives us a rough estimate? Like bench press or deadlift or bicep curl where if you can do a certain exercise using a certain weight, that’s how much force you can apply?

 

[dchawk81]

How do you know how much weight you can apply? Does it mean you weigh 200 pounds and somehow stand on the end? Is there some gym equivalent that gives us a rough estimate? Like bench press or deadlift or bicep curl where if you can do a certain exercise using a certain weight, that’s how much force you can apply?

If you stand on the end of a 3 foot bar and weigh 200lbs you're applying approximately 600 ft-lbs.

Aside from body weight, the ability to apply force depends on an individual's strength.

 

[Johnny chaos]

that's what your floor jack handle is for

 

[dchawk81]

that's what your floor jack handle is for

Mines a harbor freight. I doubt it would hold up.

 

[Wakefield]

How do you know how much weight you can apply? Does it mean you weigh 200 pounds and somehow stand on the end? Is there some gym equivalent that gives us a rough estimate? Like bench press or deadlift or bicep curl where if you can do a certain exercise using a certain weight, that’s how much force you can apply?

I think someone who can deadlift 500 lbs. could probably pull the bar with similar force (both hands) but would not be all of the way at the very end of the bar handle or "cheater"
such individuals can probably get all of the capability out of a 24" bar without any cheater pipe
however there are individuals who have good mechanical skills and expertise who are not especially physically strong and extra long bars and ratchets allow them to practice the trades,also the extra long bars allow for less strain on the job and perhaps less chance of injury particularly when not so young anymore

Probably should also mention the existence of the new generation of battery powered impact tools

 

[ItsNemo]

I love listening to the musings of people living the sheltered life under the hood of a Camry. How the hell do you get an Astro impact on a 3” pipe Union tightened by the hand of God? What about a fist sized JIC fitting? I’m not going to explode a testicle pulling on a 2 foot adjustable when I can apply extra leverage in a controlled manner to loosen or tighten something as needed.

Industry is different than the vast majority of users here who will never need anything bigger than 1/2" drive. Sheltered life? No, just not dealing with trains and oil/gas industry.

 

[bigfunwmu]

How do you know how much weight you can apply? Does it mean you weigh 200 pounds and somehow stand on the end? Is there some gym equivalent that gives us a rough estimate? Like bench press or deadlift or bicep curl where if you can do a certain exercise using a certain weight, that’s how much force you can apply?

A bathroom scale and a tape measure can give you all kinds of info about the torque you are applying with your cheater pipe.

Stand on the bathroom scale, and tape measure from your hand to the center of rotation. Use the scale to see how much weight you're leaning on the pipe with and shazam, inch pounds. 48" from center of rotation, 200 lbs on the scale before leaning -> 100 lbs on the scale after leaning: boom 4800 inch pounds.

I have done this before, it's so very much easier to just buy the torque wrench.

Or... most of us are using the cheater pipe to take something apart. I don't care how much torque I need to take old rusty **** apart as long as it comes apart.

 

[cvairwerks]

I've seen a backhoe forcing a cheater on trying to break loose a gland nut on an hydraulic cylinder. Even at minimal extension, it couldn't break the nut loose. With lots of heat applied and the force of the hoe, it broke loose. When it was time to reinstall the nut, it went on like butter...

 

[threewood]

I use whatever slips over the breaker bar. Jack handle is a pretty good one. My favorite is a steel fence post about 6 foot long. I still remember bouncing on it to break loose a hub nut on a Mazda. Like a gunshot when it popped loose.

 

[Jim greengo]

Always reminds me of the time me and my dad couldn't bust the lugs loose on a late 60s dodge 2t truck with his craftsman 3/4" drive back in the early 80s with both of us pulling on it.
Put a 10' long piece of pipe on there,and both of us hung on it!
Still wouldn't budge.
Till somebody stuck his head out the shop door and yelled: hey stupid,they're left handed threads! Hahaha

 

[Firebrick43]

My 1/2” drive breaker bar is a 36” Snap On which is the longest length I’ve seen so far.

My 1” drive breaker bar is a 40” one. I haven’t seen anything significantly longer.

Longest cheater pipe setup I used was a 1” ratchet with my 6 foot pipe and then a track bar through that to make about a 12 foot total length to break loose front axle bolts on a skidder.

Snap on 1" ratchets/breaker heads have 29" handles then a 36" extension that slides on and locks with a spring pin for 65"

 

[dchawk81]

Always reminds me of the time me and my dad couldn't bust the lugs loose on a late 60s dodge 2t truck with his craftsman 3/4" drive back in the early 80s with both of us pulling on it.
Put a 10' long piece of pipe on there,and both of us hung on it!
Still wouldn't budge.
Till somebody stuck his head out the shop door and yelled: hey stupid,they're left handed threads! Hahaha

Torque multipliers are stupid silly cheap and magical for (actual) stubborn lug nuts.

 

[AEAdam]

How do you know how much weight you can apply? Does it mean you weigh 200 pounds and somehow stand on the end? Is there some gym equivalent that gives us a rough estimate? Like bench press or deadlift or bicep curl where if you can do a certain exercise using a certain weight, that’s how much force you can apply?

I just guessed. When you use a torque wrench, you kinda get a feel. 200lbs applied load is a lot. 100lbs causes most people to grunt if they can do that at all. when you are torquing lug nuts to 100ftlbs, chances are you are applying roughly half that.

No, not standing on the tool. I think I’ve never done that. There’s no control.

Torque wrench is the right measure. If you set your 1/2” wrench to 200 and pull hard, that’s probably a 100lb pull.

If you want a better answer, see MIL STD 1472.

 

[PhantomEB]

don’t know where mine is, probably on the steel rack somewhere. Is just a 36” piece of pipe my brother hogged a little bit to fit my 1/2” breaker bar And he knurled the last 6-8”.

 

[DGersic]

I live in Arizona. What's a cheater pipe and why would you ever need one? What does it do that a THOR impact can't?

The longest I’ve made was around 6’ of 2x4 bolted to the handle of a 3’ pipe wrench. That broke loose the 1 1/2” rust seized drain cleanout plug in my basement. I had 190 lbs. of me hanging from it to break it loose.

I have a broken 1/2” breaker bar from trying to remove a hub nut from my Dakota by adding a 6’ pipe to it. Sheared off the anvil, and bent the bar. I now have a better breaker bar, and a bigger impact gun, which is what eventually broke the nut loose.