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Checking Compressor tank

N_Jay

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I just picked up a 60 gallon compressor.
The tank is ASME rated at 200 PSI WP and 450 Deg F.
Manufacture date of 1989.
The outside looks good rust and dent wise. (Very little surface rust on feet and such, no dents, no significant scratches)
The pump is a Rol-Air K25 from about the same time.
Looks like these were good to 200 PSI but usually run at 175 PSI.

I plan to use it to 150 or 175 PSI if all is good.

The drain valve looks to work well, and the air filer and oil look good, so I am assuming it was well maintained. Story I was given was it was from a body shop (looks like it, lots of paint on the outside), and they needed a bigger compressor. The body guy (who I bought it from) bought it, brought it home, but never hooked it up.

So, other than pulling a plug to look inside, is there an easy way to check for signs of rust?

I have taped the tank all over including on the bottom and it sounds solid.

I was thinking of using some small amount of liquid (Maybe water or light oil) in the tank and then drain into a clean rag to get an idea of what might be in the tank.

I was also going to try to see if I could thread a bore-scope into the tank, but not sure what to look for. I am assuming that light surface rust/discoloration is "OK" and scale and pitting are scrap time?

If the scope does not work, then are there are suggestions to get the plugs out of the tank?

Assuming it looks good, is there really any reason not to run it at 175 PSI.

Yes, I will be replacing the old 200 PSI blow-off safety valve and probably adding a second at a lower pressure.

Anything else I should be looking for or thinking about?

(Other than "Go get it hydro tested", or "Go buy a new one")
 
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Cyberbear

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Other than the usual tapping and visual interior inspection, I know of no other way to be certain of the tank integrity.
 

safetyman665

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I acquired a 1930s vintage air compressor from what used to be a gas station. I rebuilt the Devilbiss pump and before I put it into service I pressure tested the tank. Filled it 100% with water and used my pressure washer to build pressure to a bit above max alllowable working presssure. I left it for about 20 mins to make sure there were no pinhole leaks. The reason for using water is it cannot rapidly expand (like air can) and cause harm or damage in the event of a tank rupture.

I like your borescope idea for checking the interior of the tank. That's something that wasn't available to me when I acquired my compressor hence the reason I pressure tested mine. I would look for major pitting where corrosion cells have formed. I would assume them to be near the bottom of the tank where moisture accumulates.
 
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1redTA

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I think you will be fine with what you have done so far. The tapping should have revealed any thin spots.
 
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N_Jay

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Hopefully the scope looks clean.
I assume the inside is not coated and will probably have a nice even coating of flash rust.
Any scaling (with pitting underneath should look quite different (I think).
I should also be able to see any signs of a "water line" if it had a lot of water for any length of time.
I will post what I find.
 
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N_Jay

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The scope idea was a dud.

The focal distance of the camera is too short. When it is close enough to a surface to see clearly, you can't tell what you are looking at and the unsecured swinging camera does not help.
When you pull back to get a wider view, all is out of focus and there is not enough light.

Did some more banging and I am quite sure it is solid, so I am going to start by filling it 10 PSI at a time and checking for leaks.
 

lakeroadster

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I used to do usable life studies on pressure vessels at my day job.

We used an Ultrasonic Thickness Tester to record the steel thickness of the vessel.

Ultrasonic Thickness Testing (UTT) would be the best testing method. You might be able to rent a UTT meter locally for a very reasonable price. They are super simple to use.
 

strutaeng

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I used to do usable life studies on pressure vessels at my day job.

We used an Ultrasonic Thickness Tester to record the steel thickness of the vessel.

Ultrasonic Thickness Testing (UTT) would be the best testing method. You might be able to rent a UTT meter locally for a very reasonable price. They are super simple to use.

I tested my 30 gallon ASME tank from 1990 a few years ago also with UT. We had 2 instruments were I used to worked. Check as many spots as feasible, especially the bottom part.

In my neck of the woods there's a place called Pine Environmental that rents these for like $65/day. I have used them for work, and they even deliver to our office. Just tell them what you are testing, as they have several models.

Otherwise the hydro testing is very reliable.

Good Luck
 

theoldwizard1

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I've heard of guys filling the tank with water and then pump grease in with a grease gun to increase the pressure. home brew hydro testing .

Yes and it works well ! Check YouTube. There are a couple of videos out there.

The trick is to fill the tank 99.999% full leaving as small amount of air as possible. Make sure you put a pressure gauge capable of your test pressure (typically twice the working pressure). Grease guns are capable of generating >>1000 PSI !

If there is a leak, it will just be a small stream of water.
 

lakeroadster

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Yes and it works well ! Check YouTube. There are a couple of videos out there.

The trick is to fill the tank 99.999% full leaving as small amount of air as possible. Make sure you put a pressure gauge capable of your test pressure (typically twice the working pressure). Grease guns are capable of generating >>1000 PSI !

If there is a leak, it will just be a small stream of water.

Most will generate 6,000 to 7,000 psi... be careful out there.
https://www.grainger.com/category/ecatalog/N-1z0do6g
 
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N_Jay

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Well, the people here and on other forum have scared me enough to test the tank.
I will be using the grease gun method, although I will try ATF or other cheapo non-flammable oil first because I don't want blobs of grease in my tank.)

Since the tank is a 200 PSI WP, and from what I have read normal test is 1.5X (therefore 300PSI) I was thinking of doing 265 (1.5X of my 175 PSI planned use) also taking into account that my tank will never be at 450 deg F (Unless the house is on fire, and in that case a little extra destruction only helps the insurance claim ;) )

So what are peoples thoughts?

ATF in a grease gun?
265PSI?

Chime in!!!

I will be watching the gauge (might even have more than one piped in).
 

The Cobbler

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any liquid that can be pumped would be suitable IMO. ( liquid doesn't compress where air does)
I would test to the 1.5x of the max tank pressure just to be sure. ie 300 psi ... if it blows at 300 but not at 265, how confident do you really feel down the road?
 
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N_Jay

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Anyone want to chime in with experience from a tank that fail the test? (What pressure did it leak at?)

I was thinking of if the grease gun would pump the ATF, or if it needed to be thicker?
 

lakeroadster

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Check Youtube... seems those guys simply put water in the grease gun....

Use 2 pressure gauges, rated for water, not air.... redundancy is "guuder".

Don't pressurize above the rating stamped on the tank.
 
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N_Jay

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Tank stamped at 200 PSI working pressure at 450 deg F.

Am I correct that test pressure is typically 1.5X working?

Arte you saying don't test over 200 or over 300?
 

lakeroadster

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If the tag on the tank specifies the MAWP (Maximum Allowable Working Pressure) is 200 psi don't pressurize it above 200 psi.

You'll never operate it higher than that pressure... or even at that pressure, the relief valve is set well below that, right?

You're not an ASME code qualified repair shop, nor do you have experience or qualifications that are needed to test a tank above it's MAWP.

As long as you don't go over 200 PSI... no harm, no fowl.

Free advice... from a guy who made a living designing, building, testing and evaluating vessels.

Be careful and be safe.

A similar thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314774&highlight=ultrasonic
 
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N_Jay

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I appreciate the input.

Being a dumb electrical engineer, I still wonder what the standard test margin is for a 450 deg steel tank.
 

lakeroadster

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I appreciate the input.

Being a dumb electrical engineer, I still wonder what the standard test margin is for a 450 deg steel tank.

The only reason it is rated at 450 F is the allowable stress for the steel doesn't change until about that temp..... used to be 650 F. for regular mild steel...
 
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N_Jay

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There has to be some margin?

They can't just test at WP.
 

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nehog

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I've heard of guys filling the tank with water and then pump grease in with a grease gun to increase the pressure. home brew hydro testing .

I've done this, but with a dedicated grease gun filled with water. The grease gun was used so well lubricated. Worked well, had no problems pumping up to 350 lb pressure (and the tank held.) The hardest part is just getting the water back out of the tank... :lol:
 

lakeroadster

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There has to be some margin?

They can't just test at WP.

You mean when the tank is new? Yeah sure there is. The test pressure is based on an equation that takes into account the ambient test temperature vs. rated design temperature x 1.3 or 1.5.. depending on which code, etc, etc, yadda, yadda. It's technical...

After the new ASME vessel is stamped the only time it should ever be tested above it's rated MAWP is if it is being altered, and then the test should only be done by an ASME certified shop.

That's a day after it was built, or 10 years.
 
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fireguy

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An Amerex Dry Chemical fire extinguisher has a charged pressure of 195 PSI. The tank is to be pressure tested at 390 PSI. The interior is to be visually inspected for excessive rust ( whatever that is) and external dents of a certain size and depth. Welding marks and burnt areas are cause for destruction of the extinguisher. Low pressure fire extinguishers are to be tested at 12 year intervals. I have not seen any of the 6 air compressors in my shop with any information as to working pressure or testing intervals.

After you HT your compressor tank, how are you going to dry the tank? I sent tanks to my tester to day. I expect to get a new extinguisher to replace the one that has internal rust. They did not properly dry the shell when it was tested earlier this year.

How many here Have propane tanks? They are to be tested at 5 year intervals. I do not remember ever having anyone look at the dates or look for rust or damage on my propane tanks.
 

fireguy

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An Amerex Dry Chemical fire extinguisher has a charged pressure of 195 PSI. The tank is to be pressure tested at 390 PSI. The interior is to be visually inspected for excessive rust ( whatever that is) and external dents of a certain size and depth. Welding marks and burnt areas are cause for destruction of the extinguisher. Low pressure fire extinguishers are to be tested at 12 year intervals. I have not seen any of the 6 air compressors in my shop with any information as to working pressure or testing intervals.

After you HT your compressor tank, how are you going to dry the tank? I sent tanks to my tester to day. I expect to get a new extinguisher to replace the one that has internal rust. They did not properly dry the shell when it was tested earlier this year.

How many here Have propane tanks? They are to be tested at 5 year intervals. I do not remember ever having anyone look at the dates or look for rust or damage on my propane tanks.
 

adamm

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After you HT your compressor tank, how are you going to dry the tank? I sent tanks to my tester to day. I expect to get a new extinguisher to replace the one that has internal rust. They did not properly dry the shell when it was tested earlier this year.

On an air compressor, if it is going into use, it will get wet anyway. Water will condense out of the high pressure air, which is why you are supposed to regularly drain air compressor tanks. It shouldn't be a big deal to get the water out. It may take awhile if it only has small ports.
 

Showkey

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How many here Have propane tanks? They are to be tested at 5 year intervals. I do not remember ever having anyone look at the dates or look for rust or damage on my propane tanks.


Propane tanks are 12 years on new tank and every 5 years on every recertification there after.

http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/staticfile...les/Files/Hazmat/requal_propane_cylinders.pdf

Anyone filling a tank should check the date, my local Ace hardware checks every time. Easy way to get a newer tank , use the vending machine propane stations and turn in your older rank.
 
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N_Jay

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You mean when the tank is new? Yeah sure there is. The test pressure is based on an equation that takes into account the ambient test temperature vs. rated design temperature x 1.3 or 1.5.. depending on which code, etc, etc, yadda, yadda. It's technical...

After the new ASME vessel is stamped the only time it should ever be tested above it's rated MAWP is if it is being altered, and then the test should only be done by an ASME certified shop.

That's a day after it was built, or 10 years.

Interesting.
Yes, I realize the margin would be different for different standards, but figured that "pressure vessels for compressed air in non-DOT environments" would narrow it down enough to not be too wide a range.
And given recertifying a receiver is a kind of a standard activity there would be a standard calculated margin over WP.

I only use the word "standard" so much because in my day job I deal with standards al the time and even sit on a few standard development organizations standards working groups. (yadda, yadda. It's technical... ) ;)
 

LS6 Tommy

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Age of an air receiver has no bearing at all on the usable life.... here is one from 1949. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314774&highlight=ultrasonic


Age itself has no bearing, but condition does. The one in your referenced post was "tested", although not properly. The OP's receiver could have been sitting 3/4 of water since it was new in 1989. If I got a compressor from 1989 with an unknown background, I'd want a hydro test on it if it was going into one of my buildings. Old compressors without info tags or some non-ASME compressors are "failed" and taken out of service when they undergo regular interval State inspections. Receivers without info tags are never hydro'd and some testers won't test anything with an info tag that is not an ASME stamped tag.

All that being said, I have the safety of students and faculty in 16 schools to think of, so I have to go overkill and be 100% "by the book" all the time. I sometimes forget we don't need to be that crazy for our private use. I would say that if the OP is relatively confident the receiver is in pretty good shape, he's probably good with replacing the relief valve, do an oil change on the pump and go...

Tommy
 
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N_Jay

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Not something I would recommend. It's not even close to the way a true hydro is done.

Tommy

Not to argue, but it seems that some fairly authoritative groups (FDNY for example) disagree. (Although they use 167% of labeled WP.)

Remember, there are large pressure vessels that are build into system that can not be moved for testing and need to be tested in place.
 

LS6 Tommy

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N Jay, I'm not arguing either, but I think the FDNY test is a vehicle cargo vessel test, not a stationary compressed gas vessel test, so it is almost impossible to place the tested vessel in a testing vessel. In ASME stationary hydro testing, the vessel being tested is immersed in a water filled test vessel and sealed shut.

I suppose if the FDNY hydro test works OK for propane tank trucks and the like, using something similar to home test an air compressor receiver is OK by me. I just prefer not to think I know as much as the firms that do it professionally, nor do I have the specialized equipment necessary to do it properly or maybe even safely, that's all.

Tommy
 
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N_Jay

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The FDNY test refers to an OSHA section that specifically excludes vehicle tanks.

Think about the are receiver installed in a manufacturing plant. It is NOT getting removed and taken anywhere for testing. They need a process to use "in-place".

Yes, it does not test material stretch, to or beyond elasticity.

Some have mentioned not going over the labeled WP.
But OSHA allows relief valves to be 110% of WP.
I have seem mentions of safety margins of 1.3, 1.5, 1.67, and 200 (As well as other higher) These high ones seem to be designs margins between working and burst, which is different than between working and test.

Also found out my pump is bigger than I thought it was, so I don't need as high a pressure for reserve capacity. Therefore I am taking my goal down from 175 to 150.

So the plan is to test at 220 PSI (110% of labeled WP) and establish my safe WP at 150 PSI with high confidence.
 

LS6 Tommy

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The FDNY test refers to an OSHA section that specifically excludes vehicle tanks.

Think about the are receiver installed in a manufacturing plant. It is NOT getting removed and taken anywhere for testing. They need a process to use "in-place".

Yes, it does not test material stretch, to or beyond elasticity.

Some have mentioned not going over the labeled WP.
But OSHA allows relief valves to be 110% of WP.
I have seem mentions of safety margins of 1.3, 1.5, 1.67, and 200 (As well as other higher) These high ones seem to be designs margins between working and burst, which is different than between working and test.

Also found out my pump is bigger than I thought it was, so I don't need as high a pressure for reserve capacity. Therefore I am taking my goal down from 175 to 150.

So the plan is to test at 220 PSI (110% of labeled WP) and establish my safe WP at 150 PSI with high confidence.


I looked up the FDNY code listed in that post. It may exclude "vehicle tanks", but it listed the testing method as OSHA 180.407, which specifically states: "Requirements for test and inspection of specification cargo tanks". :dunno: :lol_hitti

I'm aware of the lack of stretch/elasticity/deformation that testing method allows, which is one reason I don't like it. I also have never been able to fathom the OSHA 110% WP rating for relief valves, either. Again, I'm not an engineer so I can't claim to understand all the factors they take into consideration.


Tommy
 
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N_Jay

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Working pressure is the normal in use pressure.

Just think of the tolerances required if a safety tripped every time you hit your normal peak pressure.

Electrical fuses are the same. a 20A breaker does not trip at 20A. It will carry 20A continuously, and trip at different levels above 20A at different times depending on type.

Typically they will trip when current is over 125% for a period of time and instantly at about 2000% (with a curve between)

As for the FDNY test, here is a company that does it on-site.
http://www.kgpowersystems.com/news/hydrostatic-tank-testing-of-compressed-air-tanks-nyc.html
Not sure where you read mobile tanks, as DOT requirements are more strict.
 
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