Child Labor Laws & Power Tools

[EricP]

My 16 year old son is being considered for a summer job at a custom millwork shop. They make and install custom trim and also do cabinetry. The owner is researching what machinery he can operate before hiring him to make sure he can legally do the work needed. Anybody have any knowledge of whether a 16 year old can operate a planer, chop saw, nail gun, etc.?

 

[Ernie pepsi]

I do not believe there is a " law " , but I do believe that the workers comp insurance states that any operator of in " industrial equipment " must be over 18. Now I think this is for large operations. Not sure though. Thought this might help.

 

[DekeT]

There are dozens of hits from Google on Alabama child labor laws. Here's one. And phone numbers to boot.

http://labor.alabama.gov/docs/posters/childlaborlawposter_english.pdf

 

[EricP]

Deke

I've been googling state and federal sites concerning child labor laws. Thanks for the link. Alabama code 25-8-43 states no person under 18 can "(7) Operating any power-driven woodworking, bakery, or paper-products machinery".

The owner is looking into whether he can use a nailgun, sander, drill, and other hand tools. I found some info on the US Dept of Labor site that says nailguns are prohibited.

Doesn't look good for him to work there unless they need someone to stack lumber and sweep floors, unless of course push broom injuries caused laws against that too. The owner has contacted the authorities to find out for sure. If he were a student apprentice it would be no problem.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Sounds like a job I would of loved to have. I would even sweep the floors and be a shop helper at that age to work in a cabinet shop

 

[gtae07]

The laws can get a little silly. When I was in high school I worked at a grocery store, and since I wasn't yet 18 I wasn't allowed to put cardboard boxes into the box crusher. Yep, not just "you can't operate it" but "you can't feed the box through the opening". Had to leave them in a pile in front of the machine.

At the same time, though, I was working in the pharmacy and handled patient records, Class II narcotics, and all the rest. I was also taking flying lessons and was an experienced riveter. Go figure.

 

[Lassen Forge]

If they're considering him for the job, they'll probably bring him up to speed, having him do "shop rat" jobs, maybe running a forklift (as it's not "power woodworking equipment"), or using hand tools... and that would be an EXCELLENT opportunity for him to get his feet wet and get familiar with the work, the shop, the equipment, etc... and if they can start him on an "apprenticeship" some of the restrictions may be lifted. I wish him luck, as that would be both an excellent job and an excellent future career path!!!!

 

[Lx460]

The forklift thing is a big NO for underage persons. Everybody else must be properly trained to run a forklift or face OSHA fines if found to be running a "powered industrial truck" without training.

A person 16 years of age, in today's world will likely be eligible to sweep floors and empty trash bins.

 

[Caman]

I was working in a custom cabinet shop when I was 16. Granted it was 16 years ago but I was running all the power tools except for the larger shapers only because they had a guy that had that specific job. I found it a great experience and still use many things I learned, even make some of my own cabinets when I have time.

 

[DekeT]

Child labor laws are probably a combination of federal and state laws which would make it an entire SNAFU for finding a straight answer to the problem.

 

[EricP]

Son just got the call from the millwork shop owner. He can't offer him a job due to prohibited work activities. Son kind of bummed and wanted to make some money. I wanted him to get the experience. We will figure out something for him to do besides play baseball and cut the grass.

 

[mrodgers]

I was working in a custom cabinet shop when I was 16. Granted it was 16 years ago but I was running all the power tools except for the larger shapers only because they had a guy that had that specific job. I found it a great experience and still use many things I learned, even make some of my own cabinets when I have time.

You most likely were working illegally, or actually your employer was giving you illegal tasks.

I too was not allowed to place the cardboard in the cardboard bailer working at a grocery store. That was 1988-1989. I doubt the NLRB or OSHA or whatever organization makes the rules laxed in them from 1989 to 2001.

 

[mrodgers]

Son just got the call from the millwork shop owner. He can't offer him a job due to prohibited work activities. Son kind of bummed and wanted to make some money. I wanted him to get the experience. We will figure out something for him to do besides play baseball and cut the grass.

Ha, there's a funny one. He can't operate a saw, but he's probably been cutting the grass since he was 12. Could mow the neighborhood for money as well, but don't put a drill in his hand, LOL.

 

[EricP]

Ha, there's a funny one. He can't operate a saw, but he's probably been cutting the grass since he was 12. Could mow the neighborhood for money as well, but don't put a drill in his hand, LOL.

He has had several broken bones playing baseball. I'd say the risks a catcher is exposed to are greater than those of a nailgun.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Make sure he thanks the shop owner for considering him, and to please keep him in mind when he turns 18. Will go a long way in keeping a job possibility open for him... since he would have had the job were it not for the laws, if he keeps in the owners good graces he may have a very cool career waiting for him in a year and change.

 

[Gerald O]

I worked for the Alaska Railroad when I was 17. Drove forklifts all day long with no training other than a quick "this lever goes up and down, this one tilts..."
That was a government job too. Have the labor laws changed that much since the mid '70s?

 

[Lx460]

I worked for the Alaska Railroad when I was 17. Drove forklifts all day long with no training other than a quick "this lever goes up and down, this one tilts..."
That was a government job too. Have the labor laws changed that much since the mid '70s?

I would say yes they have, or they had you illegally operating it.

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/poweredindustrialtrucks/

 

[reader2580]

Is it illegal for someone under 18 to run a power mower too? In 1988 and 1989 I was operating power mowers when I was 16 and 17. I was also operating a steam pressure washer when I was 16.

The Boy Scouts now limit anyone under 18 from using power tools on a work weekend. It kinda limits what the Scouts can do although most of the volunteers were over 18.

 

[buddyboy]

oh well, next year he'll be able to get a job shooting guns with the military, but at 17 he'll need a note from his parents.

most of the laws that say they are to 'protect' children are really 'protecting' 40 year old men from loosing their job to a 16 year old

lol

bakery, i wonder if that includes subway?

paper products machinery? stapler? copy machine? lol

I remember in the last 5 years someone (large scale farming operations) was trying to pass a law to remove the exemption of the child labor laws from family farms.

almost any law that gets passed is done in order to protect established companies and businesses, but is sold to the people as a law to protect the public

 

[Rock knocker]

Anybody have any knowledge of whether a 16 year old can operate a planer, chop saw, nail gun, etc.?

They can not


http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs55.htm

 

[kbs2244]

I doubt it will a legal issue as much as an insurance issue.
Be sure he checks that side out.

 

[Rock knocker]

I doubt it will a legal issue as much as an insurance issue

Unless OSHA walks in

 

[RedRabbit]

I'm 16 and work as a part time mechanic...

 

[MitchL]

Sounds like no. How does this work for High School shop classes? Could his work be considered a learning program?

 

[404]

oh well, next year he'll be able to get a job shooting guns with the military, but at 17 he'll need a note from his parents.

most of the laws that say they are to 'protect' children are really 'protecting' 40 year old men from loosing their job to a 16 year old

lol

bakery, i wonder if that includes subway?

paper products machinery? stapler? copy machine? lol

I remember in the last 5 years someone (large scale farming operations) was trying to pass a law to remove the exemption of the child labor laws from family farms.

almost any law that gets passed is done in order to protect established companies and businesses, but is sold to the people as a law to protect the public

In a bakery get caught in the huge hobart mixer.

Paper plant get sucked into the rollers of the paper making machine.

Farm work, get involved in a tractor roll over.

 

[Rock knocker]

How does this work for High School shop classes?

Students are not covered by the Department of Labor, these rules only apply to employees

 

[Rock knocker]

Could his work be considered a learning program?

Probably not realistically

 

[Toxictom]

I once saw a video of a kid maybe 12-14 in some foreign country operating a metal lathe. My first thought was this guy is going to be one hell of a machinist by the time he's 18. I'm sure the child labor laws have prevented kids from injury or death but they've prevented them from learning valuable skills if they were trained safely and properly.

 

[jeffmoss26]

I think I was 17 or 18 when I started working at the hardware store, running the pipe threader, key machine, glass cutter (not electric but still)...

 

[Lx460]

How about this??

 

[Rock knocker]

I think I was 17 or 18 when I started working at the hardware store, running the pipe threader, key machine, glass cutter (not electric but still)...

That doesn't make it legal, and a hardware store is less likely to be inspected by OSHA than a cabinet shop

 

[buddyboy]

In a bakery get caught in the huge hobart mixer.

Paper plant get sucked into the rollers of the paper making machine.

Farm work, get involved in a tractor roll over.

new driving age 21

to 'protect' the children

it's not 1910 where children have to work to eat, the government feeds all the kids now, at least during the school year, and on top of that their parents get debit cards to buy them food.

kids that want to work in "dangerous" environments are not allowed to unless their family owns a farm. the grill top or fryer at a fast food joint is just as dangerous as a surface planer, the only difference is one job pays min wage the other a living wage.

 

[Whitworth]

Why would you want you're son in a potentially dangerous work environment? I'm sure the owner is a straight up guy, (he did his due diligence) but in many cases young people are put in dangerous work conditions-situations with little or no training or supervision. I recall some of the dumb-*** stuff contractors have had kids do, and in retrospect realize how dangerous (life threatening or life changing injuries) some stuff is. And the kids often are dumb enough to go along with it, cause they don't know better. Go up a 40 foot ladder, - no fall protection but he's 17 and invincible. Operate a table saw with no training, use a jack hammer with no ear protection, demo work no protection, etc, seen it all.


Gary

 

[Lassen Forge]

I'm 16 and work as a part time mechanic...

S-h-h-h-h...

Actually, you could be fine, as long as your work hours etc are all OK. (Or, like some people I know, you ran double time cards - wait, I didn't say that!) All depends on the laws of your state and your employers insurance. The shop rat that replaced me when I went to apprentice was 16; he was busting tires and doing all sorts of "above and beyond" stuff.

In a bakery get caught in the huge hobart mixer..

Exactly - those paddles at best would break your hand, at worst, take it off. Production line ovens and/or fryers can burn you, and people still get asphyxiated unloading large batch raised dough from a proofing container by the CO2 it releases.

There was a "summer work" program when I was in high school; they had kids as young as 14 working as "house renovators" for supposed "low income housing". Had us doing all kinds of illegal stuff as a "youth training program", we got paid far less than minimum wage (and didn't even get that), ended up being a scam. But it was fun for those of us "selected", tho I still wonder if life has been as fun for the 16 year old guy who was cutting asbestos backer board with a radial arm saw, using a wet bandanna for a facemask...

 

[nickm1024cobra]

Back in 95 when i was in high school I got on with a crew trimming houses. I was 16 and learning how to run base, hang doors, etc. It was an awesome experience at 16. Next year the laws changed and they couldn't have me using the power tools. I went back the following summer at 18. I trimmed all thru college. It was the best life experience I ever got. Hopefully your son will find something similar in a couple years.

 

[Rock knocker]

Back in 95 when i was in high school I got on with a crew trimming houses. I was 16 and learning how to run base, hang doors, etc. It was an awesome experience at 16. Next year the laws changed and they couldn't have me using the power tools. I went back the following summer at 18. I trimmed all thru college. It was the best life experience I ever got. Hopefully your son will find something similar in a couple years.

I was a shop manager in the eighties, and those laws were in effect well before 1995

 

[Caman]

You most likely were working illegally, or actually your employer was giving you illegal tasks.

I too was not allowed to place the cardboard in the cardboard bailer working at a grocery store. That was 1988-1989. I doubt the NLRB or OSHA or whatever organization makes the rules laxed in them from 1989 to 2001.

Probably, but nobody questioned it, and I wouldn't trade that experience for the world. I learned more doing that than I would have working in my Grandmas store moving around rugs and other **** and unloading trucks, and I made a hell of a lot more money. "F" these laws, let a kid learn respect for a machine if they choose to rather than wrapping their bodies in bubble wrap thinking the world is a big padded playground.

It's more dangerous driving to that minimum wage job of flipping burgers that it is running a table saw.

 

[kaymccampbell]

Back when I was 14, and dinosaurs roamed the earth, and labor laws had something to do with limiting our workday to 24 hours, I had a evening weekend job at a local marina servicing and creosoting docks. Launched and cleaned and stored boats, too. Worked nights keypunching. I learned to respect the tools I used and those lessons have stood me in good stead to this day. It was the greatest time of my life.

 

[bczygan]

Deke

I've been googling state and federal sites concerning child labor laws. Thanks for the link. Alabama code 25-8-43 states no person under 18 can "(7) Operating any power-driven woodworking, bakery, or paper-products machinery".

The owner is looking into whether he can use a nailgun, sander, drill, and other hand tools. I found some info on the US Dept of Labor site that says nailguns are prohibited.

Doesn't look good for him to work there unless they need someone to stack lumber and sweep floors, unless of course push broom injuries caused laws against that too. The owner has contacted the authorities to find out for sure. If he were a student apprentice it would be no problem.

So set up a paid "work/study student apprentice" program!

 

[Rock knocker]

All this reminiscing by us senile old folks has nothing to do with the OP question. I'm sure several of us worked shoeing horses in Dodge City, and cow-punched on the Ponderosa when Pa finished up being a seaman who met John Lafayette in New Orleans.

Remember when onions on the belt were all the rage?

We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell 'em stories that don't go anywhere - like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Give me five bees for a quarter, you'd say.

Now where were we? Oh yeah: the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...