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Chisel & Punch Tutorial

woody 73

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Disclaimer and Special Notes:

Every now and then a new member will ask what chisel & Punch set should I look for? Of course we will get as many different answers for every GJ member that post a reply.

So a few things are in order that we need to clear up.

(1) You will find a wide array from the very cheap to the super expensive in punch & chisel sets in the market place.

(2) Which brings me up to point #2 and this is an area of special concern so listen up (always wear safety glasses);If you are working under anything and you are wailing away with a hammer the last thing you want to happen is for flying metal chunks from a mushrooming tool hitting you in the face. Also note the cheaper the set (pot metal) you will have to stop and dress up that tool or sharpen it all the time even before your job gets done.

(3) Buy the best that you can afford and don't skimp on price to save a few dollars.

(4)Look for tools that are made with a high grade of tool steel like S-2 something with superior tensile strength, full shank heat treating and if possible look for ones with a parabolic head to reduce mushrooming. A good example is the Mayhew 150 Line of tools, (which is different from their regular line of tools). Look for Proto, snap-on, Mac, Matco etc.

(5) Now some of you are thinking Woody they are out of my budget, now what? Ok plan B for members that do not work 24/7 but rather are shade tree or home hobbyist type people etc. Then look for sets in the mid price range like craftsman, mayhew, Sk, wilde,Western Forge, Enderes, etc.

(6) The price is still out of your range but you have time to look and pocket change waiting to be spent so plan C, Every time you visit a garage sale, flea market, yard sale, estate sale, public auction etc., look for used punches & chisels using the AA website as your guide. Examples would include Armstrong,bonney,Herbrand Vlcheck etc.

(7) Dress up that used tool on a grinder and either put them in your tool box or make a wooden block holder to keep them from hitting each other.

(8) If you just do not have the funds then you are left with places like Harbor freight or northern Tools remember that some of their Punch & chisel sets are made in India or china keep in mind cheap comes with an expensive price tag in the end so save up your money and see rule #3; happy hunting!
 

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OutsideMachinist

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Good Post Woody
http://www.maritime.org/doc/tools/index.htm
fig037.jpg


fig012.jpg


fig033.jpg


fig038.jpg


http://www.listoftools.com/grinding_operations/chisel_head_grinding.html

grinding_a_chisel_head.png



http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/machinist/part1.htm#pg38

fig038.jpg
 
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woody 73

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A few more pictures.
 

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T45

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This is awesome !

Is there a consensus on quailty sets are? :dunno:

Tier one:

Snap On - $20 per piece
Mayhew $10-12 per (special order only)
Proto $7-8 per (vintage/best lines)
PB Swiss $8-10 per
Geodore $8-10 per
Starrett - Vintage (see thread discussion)
Old Forge - USA

USA Truck Brands - (Mac/Matco/Cornwall)
USA Industrial Brands - (Williams/Armstrong)
USA Vintage Brands (Bonney, Diamond, Herbrand,Vlcheck, Stanley)
Euro Majors (Stahlwille, Facom...etc)

Second Tier (But Still Good to Very Good)


Rennsteig - $ 4-6 per via Amazon (european)
Wilde - various quality by date
SK - various quality by date
Enderes - various quality by date
Crafstman - various quality by date
Mayhew - various quality by date
Starrett - various quality by date (see thread discussion)
Dasco Pro - various quality by date -- (see thread discussion)

:confused:

The reason I'm posting is that the proliferation of sub-brands and opaque OEM relationships (some low, some high end) seems to have compounded the general issues in this particular line of tools.

Thanks.:beer:

(Edit: updated & added some names based on thread feedback)
 
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d.mcfarland

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For punches, the right one is better than the absolute best in my opinion. Too small and it will fail sooner or later. The fit has to be correct. This in no way means junk is better than quality.

Add to second tier. Dasco pro $11 for a set and will get the job done.
 

pault28

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This probably seems like a dumb question, but what makes a rip or claw hammer a bad idea when hitting a punch or chisel and a ball peen or drilling hammer the right tool? Aren't the face of a ball peen and a claw or rip hammer similar?
 

pendragon1998

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Nail hammer faces are harder than ball peen hammer faces. Nail hammers can chip (potentially injuring the user) if used to strike a chisel or other tool, whereas a ball peen hammer should have less chance of doing so.
 

rapid robert

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+1 on garage sale finds...plenty of proto, bonney, and blue point out there if you take the time to dig through the junk. Best part is most folks will sell them cheaper than craftsman!
 

Ruger_556

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This is awesome !

Is there a consensus on quailty sets are? :dunno:

Tier one:

Snap On - $20 per piece
Mayhew $10-12 per (special order only)
Proto $7-8 per (vintage/best lines)
PB Swiss $8-10 per
Geodore $8-10 per
Starrett - Vintage

Second Tier (But Still Good)

Rennsteig - $ 4-6 per via Amazon
Wilde - various quality by date
SK - various quality by date
enderes - various quality by date
Crafstman - various quality by date
Mayhew - various quality by date
Starrett - recent stuff -- various quality by date
Dasco - wideley available - [d.mcfarland]

I don't think I would put Starrett in 2nd tier for being recent manufacture... Their pin and center punches are the absolute best I've ever used :beer:
 

pault28

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Nail hammer faces are harder than ball peen hammer faces. Nail hammers can chip (potentially injuring the user) if used to strike a chisel or other tool, whereas a ball peen hammer should have less chance of doing so.

I was not aware of that. That's good info to know. Thanks!
 
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woody 73

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Special note I left out Dasco (American made) because I have never had any luck with that brand; maybe I just got a bad batch but the steel seemed to be very soft in nature.
 

Ruger_556

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Special note I left out Dasco (American made) because I have never had any luck with that brand; maybe I just got a bad batch but the steel seemed to be very soft in nature.

Yeah, those are not very good at all, I made the mistake of buying them and I've been slowly replacing everything with better. All I have left to replace is the oh so ****** chisels...
 
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herfalerf

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Hey woody, what is this AA website you mention as a guide when shopping for used punches and chisels?
 

Outlawmws

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Woody, Nice thread!

T45, you left off some Woody had in post one:

Armstrong,bonney,Herbrand Vlcheck
Which I would place in Tier one

My additions (Tier 1 unless noted):

Cornwall
P&C (possibly made by Plvmb/Proto? :dunno:)
Williams
Old Forge
Stanley (Quality varies w/age and probably supplier, I have a GREAT 1" Stanley cold chisel...)
Diamond
HP Tools (Probabyl T2)
Westcraft - (probably re-branded?)
Cornwall

Vermont American and Millers Falls (mostly nail sets and wood chisels? Quality varies, older T1 generally, newer, maybe not...)

Wood working punches and chisels may need their own thread? :dunno: Woody your thread, your call.
 
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T45

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Outlawmws

Thanks for the updates !

MODERN INDUSTRIAL BRANDS (Additions)

Armstrong [Modern]
Cornwall [Modern]
Williams [Modern]
Old Forge [modern]

VINTAGE UPDATES (Additions)
bonney [NOS/Vintage]
Diamond [NOS/Vintage]
Stanley (Quality varies w/age and probably supplier)
Herbrand [????-current]
Vlcheck [????-current]

Not familiar with these, are they still in production?

P&C (possibly made by Plvmb/Proto? )
Westcraft - (probably re-branded?)
HP Tools (Probabyl T2)

-------

Any further info on what is current production (vs not) would be great!

Thanks for the input and will update the earlier post.
 
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lbgradwell

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Not familiar with these, are they still in production?

P&C (possibly made by Plvmb/Proto? )
Westcraft - (probably re-branded?)
HP Tools (Probabyl T2)

-------

Any further info on what is current production (vs not) would be great!

None of those three still exist and neither do Herbrand or Vlchek.


Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 

Outlawmws

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Outlawmws

Thanks for the updates !

MODERN INDUSTRIAL BRANDS (Additions)

Armstrong [Modern]
Cornwall [Modern]
Williams [Modern]
Old Forge [modern]

VINTAGE UPDATES (Additions)
bonney [NOS/Vintage]
Diamond [NOS/Vintage]
Stanley (Quality varies w/age and probably supplier)
Herbrand [????-current]
Vlcheck [????-current]

Not familiar with these, are they still in production?

P&C (possibly made by Plvmb/Proto? )
Westcraft - (probably re-branded?)
HP Tools (Probabyl T2)

-------

Any further info on what is current production (vs not) would be great!

Thanks for the input and will update the earlier post.

None of those three still exist and neither do Herbrand or Vlchek.


Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

I wouldn't class Old Forge as industrial, and agree with what LBG said, but list them still as used is a cheap way to get good punches and chisels...

Also, everyone on your Modern List also has been around long enough to be vintage (at least) as well
 

T45

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Quality vintage brands, Other USA

P&C (possibly made by Plvmb/Proto? )
Westcraft - (probably re-branded?)
HP Tools (Probably Tier 2)

[This will be a work in progress -- adding as a separate post for now]
 
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woody 73

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For those of you liking pictures a few more to add to the mix.
 

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woody 73

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Still a few more not sure how to make them all appear in the same post?
 

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woody 73

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Ok some more pictures (Kraeuter chisel,Vlchek chisel, bruce chisel,herbrand oldforge,blue line & vanadium Tool are punches. Special note the Vanadium tool is made here in Ohio. Hope you enjoy the pictures I also hope you will also enjoy my next post later this week with more pictures.:rocker:
 

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justme-

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I only seen punches being used for nails into wood, or brakes.
Can someone explain when to use a drift pin?

Setting nails into wood is the job of a nail set. Finnish nails have a divot in the heat to seat the nail set and the nail set point is concave to bite into the softer nail. Point of it it to set the nail head flush or just under flush with the surface of the wood and keep from marking the surface with the hammer face. Punches can be used but the results are often severely lacking.

Essentially punches are for moving and removing pins or aligning holes. proper use would be using a starter punch to get the pin freed and moving then continue with the pin punch (long or short as needed) to remove the pin.

Aligning punches (the long tapered ones) are for putting into holes to align pieces and shift them into alignment... as in bolting a sheet metal cover onto a frame (snowblower bottom cover for example). Getting the cover holes to line up with the threaded holes in the frame one would use the alignment punch. These punches are not designed or intended to be struck or used to drive pins or anything, even tho they are often used that way incorrectly. One of my coworkers has a couple he regularly uses as drifts.

Drifts are used for moving larger objects - collars, races, gears, pulleys, etc. Want to drive out the bearing race? Use a drift. Reseat the gear on a shaft? Drift. Drifts are often just regular hot or cold roll steel rod. Some manufacturers will taper one end like a punch head to resist mushrooming and knurl the center to give grip, but the steel is usually softish and not tool steel like a punch. For delicate items (bearings, bearing races, babbot) brass drifts should be used to prevent damage to the item being driven as the brass would be softer.
I have a set of brass drifts by SK and they are knurled in the center. Bought them because of the cost of brass rod vs the set of drifts. Mayhew makes them also. I also have a handle from an old 3/8 sliding t bar that I use as a drift. (came to me that way and works reasonably) When I need one I head to the scrap bucket or stock shelf first, then to the stock rack in the store. I have several lengths of different diameter rod I regularly use as drifts, and when I need the rod for a project it get's used.

There are also roll pin punches now in manufacture which have a convex portion in the center of the tip to help center in the roll/tension pin.
I can try to scan the pages of my Ford engineer shop theory textbook for the use and some more pictures if you need.
 

Karl_B

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Killeen, TX
A roll pin punch was the first thing I bought off of the Matco truck. It was much easier to drive the pin the accelerator pump arm pivots on in Quadrajets with that punch.

I have cheaped out in the past and bought the Harbor Freight set, but now I pick up good quality punches and chisels when I see them in the pawn shops. So far, I've mostly found center punches. Eventually I'll have to replace the pin punches I bent thinking I could use them like starter punches.
 

Mgnu

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Dressed my first mushroomed punch head yesterday (on the right side of the pic). I'll be doing the one on the left today. I always just ground them even with the sides of the hex shaft. But thanks to this thread, I put a bevel on them now.

IMG_0431.jpg
 

oldtools

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Cool thread. I like these kind of informative thread. I think it is best buying used high quality punch and chisel for dirt cheap. I did buy a brand new CM set awhile go, but now I only buy used at flea market. I usually get Proto for 25 cents to $1 depending on size and condition. Snap on for $1 to $5 depending on size and condition (regular and drift punch).
 
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