Clausing 5400 Lathe Restoration

[Cahark]

Hey everyone. long time lurker, first time poster.



I love getting ideas from this forum, and I figured someone may be interested in my Clausing.



I've had this machine for a few years now. I picked it up from a local transmission shop where it wasn't even hooked up to use. I am a machinist by trade, so I haven't really needed a lathe at home, but I've finally knocked out a few projects around the house that have allowed me to move on to this one.



When I first got the machine I rewired the machine for 230v, verified that everything was operational, and changed both of the variable speed belts. The clutch seemed to always want to slip or stay constantly engaged no matter how you adjusted it so I knew that it would be a main part of my teardown. When cutting on this machine, I was able to get OK surface finishes, but not anywhere near what I expected from this machine.



That brings us today. So far I have started cleaning, stoning, rebuilding, and re painting, each individual part/screw on this machine. In the process I'm hoping I solve my operational problems, and to come up with a machine that I will be satisfied with.



This will be a long process but hopefully someone will get something out of my write up.

 

[matt_i]

Very nice machine! I had a 5914 some years back, and it had issues with the hydraulically-positioned vari-speed drive. But its a different machine than that one.

Any pics of the bottom cabinet/vari-drive guts?

 

[2oolhound]

[Bob Dylan Rainy Day Women]
They'll stone you when you're at the breakfast table
They'll stone you when you are young and able
They'll stone you when you're tryin' to make a buck
Then they'll stone you and then they'll say "good luck"[/QUOTE]

So you say you're going to stone these parts? This I gotta see.
The term "stoning" invokes images of honing ways or chuck jaws etc. Things I've never even thought of. As a non machinist (green horn) who's had an old atlas for 3 years or so and slowly learning things on it I'm looking forward to following this thread!

 

[Cahark]

Very nice machine! I had a 5914 some years back, and it had issues with the hydraulically-positioned vari-speed drive. But its a different machine than that one.

Any pics of the bottom cabinet/vari-drive guts?

Yes I sure do have some pics! Luckily/unluckily there are no hydraulics on this machine. I haven't ever messed with a clutch mechanism like this one. I'm hoping all goes well.


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[Cahark]

[Bob Dylan Rainy Day Women]

They'll stone you when you're at the breakfast table

They'll stone you when you are young and able

They'll stone you when you're tryin' to make a buck

Then they'll stone you and then they'll say "good luck"

So you say you're going to stone these parts? This I gotta see.

The term "stoning" invokes images of honing ways or chuck jaws etc. Things I've never even thought of. As a non machinist (green horn) who's had an old atlas for 3 years or so and slowly learning things on it I'm looking forward to following this thread![/QUOTE]



It sounds as if you are "Stone Free" as Mr. Hendrix would say haha!

My definition/description of stoning would be to lightly run a GOOD QUALITY, FINE, FLAT stone LIGHTLY across any surface that may have high spots that have been raised by dropped tools, misuse, or accidents. (Not that junky sharpening stone rolling around your bench that has a 1/2" deep groove worn through the center of it lol) Specifically on precision surfaces. I tend to use a Norton orange (India stone??? Not sure) slip stone with a dab of oil. No need to go crazy, just remove the high spots so the mating surfaces will run together as they were intended. Afterwards clean and oil the surfaces for reassembly. I use this method daily in the machine shop and at home.


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[Cahark]

So you say you're going to stone these parts? This I gotta see.

The term "stoning" invokes images of honing ways or chuck jaws etc. Things I've never even thought of. As a non machinist (green horn) who's had an old atlas for 3 years or so and slowly learning things on it I'm looking forward to following this thread!

It sounds as if you are "Stone Free" as Mr. Hendrix would say haha!

My definition/description of stoning would be to lightly run a GOOD QUALITY, FINE, FLAT stone LIGHTLY across any surface that may have high spots that have been raised by dropped tools, misuse, or accidents. (Not that junky sharpening stone rolling around your bench that has a 1/2" deep groove worn through the center of it lol) Specifically on precision surfaces. I tend to use a Norton orange (India stone??? Not sure) slip stone with a dab of oil. No need to go crazy, just remove the high spots so the mating surfaces will run together as they were intended. Afterwards clean and oil the surfaces for reassembly. I use this method daily in the machine shop and at home.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]



And yes I do lightly stone the ways on machines that I have acquired. Not so hard that you alter their shapes and dimensions, but enough that you even out the bad spots. Once I have them cleaned up, I usually don't touch them again unless i do something reckless like drop a tool or part on them hard enough to cause a swedge.
As far as chuck jaws go, I always stone the mating surfaces every single time I take them off or flip them around. You never know if the Bozo that ran the machine before you tightened the mating surfaces together with chips and junk between them. Any impurities can cause the chuck to run out.


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[Cahark]

Made a bit of progress over the last few days. As I went through the parts that I had cleaned in the days prior, I realized they had started to rust even though I had lightly oiled them. This prompted an afternoon of painting. The weather has been cold so it has slowed my drying process, but things are looking good so far.

The good side of this is that it will allow me to reassemble some of the sub assemblies such as the compound and the tailstock. (That way it's still fresh in my mind as to how they are reassembled) I'm hoping to have the taper attachment and the carriage cleaned and painted in the next few days.




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[Monkey Milk]

looking good, Im in the middle of repairing and restoring a 13in southbend gearhead. Good times.

 

[Cahark]

looking good, Im in the middle of repairing and restoring a 13in southbend gearhead. Good times.

My father in law has owned 2 south bends. I really like them a lot. Hope to see some pics of your 13.


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[2oolhound]

Thanks for the info on stoning.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Looking forward to this!

 

[Cahark]

Got the apron cleaned out today. I decided against taking each gear out and cleaning them individually. I understand that it's the proper way to clean the apron, but everything is functioning as it should in that part of the machine.

First, I stopped by the local harbor freight and picked up a needle scaler. I had never used one before, but a friend of mine raved about how helpful they are for removing layers of nasty paint. At 24ish dollars with a 20% coupon, I decided to give it a shot. I'm very glad I did. It pulled of decades of grime and funk in a few short minutes.



After that, I lightly hit the surface with a wire wheel on a die grinder. This smoothed out any irregularities, and flaked off any paint left behind the needle scaler



Last, I proceeded to flush the apron gearbox with kerosine about 10 times. Everything came out beautiful. The gears look to be in fine shape, and everything seems to mesh as it should.


I am hoping to get some paint on the carriage before the weekend. This will allow me to start on the headstock or the underdrive. Not sure which I will do first.


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[Cahark]

Today's progress included cleaning up the saddle, and looking into the apron a bit more.

I thought I was done with the apron yesterday, but I had a change of heart and decided to swap out the gasket where the lead screw meets the worm gear. I'm glad I did. I found plenty of grit and chips beheind the access panel. Honestly it probably would have been fine due to sitting at the bottom of the casting, but I feel better knowing that it's clean and ready for duty.

After that, I moved on to the saddle. Much to my surprise it seems that the saddle has a bit more wear than I realized. The bed of the lathe is hardened, but the saddle is not. It looks like the lack of oil during the last 50 years or so has taken its toll. At first I called around to a local grind shop that has grinders large enough to do lathe beds, but at 500 bucks just for the bed I decided to opt out. Besides, the lathe only cost 400! Afterwards I called my father and asked his opinion. (Machinist also) after a few disscussions we decided to just leave it be. The wear is even along the saddle. And everything seems to seat as it should even with the wear. One thing that he said that made me smile is "the bed and the saddle are just lapped together now." He's a bit on the sarcastic side haha.

I decided that for now I'm just going to hold off. I'm going to clean and stone the saddle ways, paint, and reassemble. If I change my mind in the future, I can remove the saddle and grind the ways on the 6x18 surface grinder, but truthfully I think I'm making more of a deal about this than I should especially for a home shop lathe.




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[Cahark]

I made a decent amount of progress today. I was able to strip and clean most of the small parts other than the under Drive unit, The headstock, and the base of the machine.

Unfortunately/fortunately, I also came across a few surprises. I removed the banjo assembly from the Side of the machine. Previously I had realized that the gear that connects to the "sliding out gear" had been cracked and repaired. However I did not realize that the banjo itself had been cracked and repaired. It's an ugly repair, but it seems to be holding up so far. I will most likely let it be for now.

Another surprise was the headstock. I had always had problems getting a decent surface finish on this machine when I was operating it. In fact I would sometimes steer clear of running it just because it frustrated me so badly. I have access to other lathes so I held off on looking into the matter until I got a chance to tear down the machine. After I remove the banjo the T-nut that was holding the headstock onto the bed stuck out like a sore thumb. The bolts were completely loose. Almost like somebody forgot to tighten them down on the machine. I couldn't believe it, my problem was staring me in the face. The front T-nut was nice and tight so the head wouldn't shift around, however if you were to pry up on the rear of the headstock it was in plain sight that it was not fully attached. I'm pretty upset with myself that I never realized it, but I had never taken the banjo off. With it on there there was no way of telling.

Afterwards I got a chance to look at the precision surfaces between the headstock and the bed. It has become obvious to me that someone removed the headstock prior to me getting to it and did not clean the ways when they reattached it. If they had done this, there would not be such heavy rust and dirt between the two surfaces.

I am hoping that this solves most of my problems, but surely I am not finished and there has to be more to it.
Tomorrow will be a day of painting, and disassembling the headstock/spindle assembly.





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[EPA7]

Nice progress. Looking forward to following this!

 

[DougWil]

My Logan 14 originally had a sliding sheave arraignment (Reeves drive) to vari the spindle speed.
Somewhere along it's life it was tossed and some past owner chopped a hole in the side of the cabinet, jammed a motor in and made it a single speed..... and then never used it.

I picked it up cheap, and found a 4 speed machinery transmission which I installed,,, worked OK for 10 years until VFD's became available and cheap.

Ripped out all that and installed a 5hp Baldor industrial 3 phase motor with a 2 step pulley on the motor and a VFD about 10 years ago.
With the original back gear intact I have never had to shift the belt to the 2nd pulley.
Anything from about 20 rpm to 2000 are now just a twist of the VFD knob.

I think all those problem prone, sliding sheave contraptions have been made obsolete with cheap VFDs.

 

[Cahark]

Thanks for the info dougwil. I'm hoping that I'm able to preserve the under drive unit, but we will see how the following days go. Everything except for the clutch operates as it should. Hopefully I can save it.

Do you have any pics of what you did to your Logan? I haven't had any experience with VFDs yet but they look interesting. I assume you are able to get full power with them?


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[justanengineer]

Looks good so far! Your 5400 is basically identical to my 6300 aside from the headstock and gearbox, tho mine doesnt have the optional clutch. I cant imagine the clutch is too difficult to unstick and is likely virtually bulletproof as the reeves drive, would be a big step backwards to be rid of either IMHO. I suspect you'll like that lathe once back together, mine is an ex-school machine and very capable for a small machine.

 

[DougWil]

Thanks for the info dougwil. I'm hoping that I'm able to preserve the under drive unit, but we will see how the following days go. Everything except for the clutch operates as it should. Hopefully I can save it.

Do you have any pics of what you did to your Logan? I haven't had any experience with VFDs yet but they look interesting. I assume you are able to get full power with them?

Unfortunately I am working 10 hrs from my home and the shop, so I won't be able to provide any pics for a couple of weeks.

The Logan originally came with a 2-3 hp motor.
Because a VFD doesn't increase or decrease torque with rpm like a mechanical drive you have to go oversize on the motor.
That is why I stepped up to a 5hp.
You have to also be aware that running the motor at low rpms for extended periods can make it overheat. So an external fan may be necessary.

At 60 hz you get the motor rated speed, torque and hp. All that said, I run mine from 10hz to 120hz and it has plenty of torque for even big hogging and big slow drilling with a 1.25" bit in steel (in backgear and running about 30hz). The biggest bit I have.

Being a smaller lathe you probably could get by with a 3hp motor and 3hp VFD. The VFDs are much more costly when you get over 3hp.

A big side benefit is buying 3 phase equipment and being able to run it off the same VFD.
I power my BP clone, table saw and lots of homemade hydraulics, made with dirt cheap used 3 phase motors with the same VFD.
My BP clone is a varihead, but generally I just use the VFD to set the rpm.

 

[Cahark]

Looks good so far! Your 5400 is basically identical to my 6300 aside from the headstock and gearbox, tho mine doesnt have the optional clutch. I cant imagine the clutch is too difficult to unstick and is likely virtually bulletproof as the reeves drive, would be a big step backwards to be rid of either IMHO. I suspect you'll like that lathe once back together, mine is an ex-school machine and very capable for a small machine.

Yes, I have high hopes for the machine. My father in law seems to think that the clutch will function as soon as I disassemble and clean it, plus knock the glaze off the plates. I'm hoping to hit that next after the headstock.


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[Cahark]

Unfortunately I am working 10 hrs from my home and the shop, so I won't be able to provide any pics for a couple of weeks.



The Logan originally came with a 2-3 hp motor.

Because a VFD doesn't increase or decrease torque with rpm like a mechanical drive you have to go oversize on the motor.

That is why I stepped up to a 5hp.

You have to also be aware that running the motor at low rpms for extended periods can make it overheat. So an external fan may be necessary.



At 60 hz you get the motor rated speed, torque and hp. All that said, I run mine from 10hz to 120hz and it has plenty of torque for even big hogging and big slow drilling with a 1.25" bit in steel (in backgear and running about 30hz). The biggest bit I have.



Being a smaller lathe you probably could get by with a 3hp motor and 3hp VFD. The VFDs are much more costly when you get over 3hp.



A big side benefit is buying 3 phase equipment and being able to run it off the same VFD.

I power my BP clone, table saw and lots of homemade hydraulics, made with dirt cheap used 3 phase motors with the same VFD.

My BP clone is a varihead, but generally I just use the VFD to set the rpm.

I may need to look into it. Currently I'm running a 5 hp rotary phase converter for my Bridgeport,lathe, and table saw. I guess the vfd never really crossed my mind. Definitely looks like something to look into if I can't get this to work.


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[Cahark]

The weekend turned out to go pretty well for my lathe. It was nearly 60 degrees here in Ohio, which allowed me to lay down a few coats of paint after a few days of preparation.

Unfortunatly, I was not ready to paint the bed/cabinet yet. It would have been the perfect day for it.

I took out the quick change gear box and cleaned it thoroughly. It has become obvious that someone with an air hose carelessly blew chips up inside.

Next up is disassembling and cleaning the headstock/spindle.


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[Firebrand]

Great machine find at a super price point! Keep the progress updates coming, please. Subscribed.

 

[Cahark]

Great machine find at a super price point! Keep the progress updates coming, please. Subscribed.

Thanks for the encouragement, sometimes it's hard to get out to the garage after working my day job. But I do love seeing the results after I'm done. Hopefully I will have some progress this evening.


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[Cahark]

Another evening of progress! Started the day on the light side, assembling the tailstock and the compound. I had painted them and cleaned/repaired any major nicks a bout a week or so ago. I wanted to get them together before I wrapped my head around tearing down another assembly. Everything went together and adjusted/operated as it should. I'm still debating if I'm going to re grind where the toolpost mounts. I don't like all of the ugly depressions. Of course I stoned it flat and there are no high spots, I just don't like the look of it. Haha

Next up was the headstock. It was a mess. I needed to get the spindle out so I could clean and paint, but also to check on the condition of the bearings, replace the drive belts, and remove the back gear. Unfortunately this became more of a bear than I expected. Thanks to vintage machinery.com I was able to use the manual with great directions on how to remove the spindle.

Even though I followed all of the directions, the spindle did not want to budge with the "taps" of my soft hammer. I only have an arbor press at home, and it isn't large enough to handle the spindle. I ended up using a milling machine stud set to come up with a "spindle puller". it was cumbersome to use, but it allowed me to remove the spindle properly with out slamming on the back with a hammer. All things considered, it worked great.

After everything was out I was able to check out the bearings. Much to my surprise, they are in really good shape. Depending on the cost of new, I will probably clean them up, oil them, and re install.


Forgive the mess. Things got a bit crazy during the spindle pulling. Haha


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[bp460]

Thanks for sharing your project! That is a very creative use of a clamp set and I am glad to see the head stock bearings are in such great shape.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[jmarkwolf]

The guys over at homeshopmachinist and hobby-machinist would love to follow your restoration also.

 

[Cahark]

Thanks for sharing your project! That is a very creative use of a clamp set and I am glad to see the head stock bearings are in such great shape.

Cheers,
Brad

I was very happy with the results of the puller. Crude, but it worked. I was able to find some bearings. They look to cost around 50 each. I need two. What do you guys think of the bearings I posted up? Decent condition? Need replaced? Just fine?
They sounded and felt fine before removal. But I'm not an expert on tapered roller bearings. I will add that they look slightly better in person than in the pics. Let me know.


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[Cahark]

The guys over at homeshopmachinist and hobby-machinist would love to follow your restoration also.

I'm not on those forums, but maybe I should be. I'm new to this. Any rules on posting the same project on two different sites? Haha


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[Cahark]

Today was a pain in the ****. I needed to remove the back gear assembly. I was able to break loose all of the set screws. According to the manual there was supposed to be a roll pin holding the inner shaft to the eccentrics. Unfortunatly someone who owned the lathe prior seems to have had a bad wreck. When they went to replace the roll pin, they installed a solid pin instead. I've removed hundreds of pins in the machine shop, but I've never had this many issues. I tried to use my arbor press, air hammer, and regular pin punches. After about 30 mins of fighting it. I decided to drill out the pin. Surprisingly, it was much softer than expected and it drilled right out......should have just tried that from the beginning.

I also got a chance to start cleaning the spindle parts. They aren't finished yet but the major funk has been removed.

After most of the dirt was off, I found out that the gear on the spindle had a major repair. Someone had built up some broken teeth with weld and re machined them. It looks like a decent repair. I'm really just glad that I'm not the one who had to fix it.


Hopefully I can get a coat of paint on the headstock by the weekend


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[cgrutt]

Nice project! I just started working on one today (think you may have replied to a question I posted, thanks!). What paint are you using and how are you applying it? Picks up top look like its coming out really nice. Good luck.

 

[Cahark]

I'm using rust-oleum industrial enamel with a clear coat. I wanted to use a good quality sherwin Williams product, but I had some trouble with drying issues. After 8 days it still could be easily removed with a fingernail. I've used the industrial enamel for a tool grinder, arbor press and a Rockwell Unisaw. It's held up pretty well so far. We will see how it does on a machine tool. I am currently spraying the coating. Haven't tried rolling it, but I'm sure it would do well. I like it because it dries to the touch in less than an hour in even cold conditions. It helps me to fight the rust from condensation after stripping the part.


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[cgrutt]

Thanks. Out of a rattle can? Looks great.

I sprayed a drill press with Tractor Supply (Majik) tractor paint with hardner and reducer and it came out pretty good. Was thinking about using same on my lathe but will look into the Rustoleum. Thanks.

 

[Cahark]

Thanks. Out of a rattle can? Looks great.

I sprayed a drill press with Tractor Supply (Majik) tractor paint with hardner and reducer and it came out pretty good. Was thinking about using same on my lathe but will look into the Rustoleum. Thanks.

Yea. I used the can. I initially sprayed the sherwin Williams out of my HVLP but I didn't have any luck with drying. I heard mixed reviews on Majic. I would really like to try it. I assume most of the reviews were due to bad application.


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[cgrutt]

I seemed to have good luck with it but I sprayed it in the Spring when weather was fairly warm. No problem curing.

before



after

 

[Cahark]

That's a great looking machine. Feel free to drop it off at my place, I have plenty of uses for a nice machine like that haha


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[Cahark]

I seemed to have good luck with it but I sprayed it in the Spring when weather was fairly warm. No problem curing.

before



after

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170126/06bd24fe476f8e05d3c65ffe2d48fb06.jpg[/
Here are a few items that I used the rust oleum on in the past. I'm hoping for just as good results.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[ATTACH=full]1267828[/ATTACH]

 

[Dr Stan]

Glad to see someone else who does a complete tear down and proper repairs. At some point I'll post pics of my rebuild of my Fray vertical milling machine.

Actually my avatar is the Fray once finished.

 

[cgrutt]

They look great!

 

[Cahark]

Glad to see someone else who does a complete tear down and proper repairs. At some point I'll post pics of my rebuild of my Fray vertical milling machine.

Actually my avatar is the Fray once finished.

There really is no other way to do it. I just wish it would go a little faster!


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