Clausing 5400 Lathe Restoration

[Cahark]

I’ll look for those. On yours, how true of a cut could you get?

On mine, even after leveling the bed, still get about a 5 tenths bulge near the chuck. The bed seems to have about a 6 thousands wear right about that area.

The other weird thing is the bed flats and V are not co-planar. So if I level using just the flats, it’s different than if I put the level on the cross slide. I’m using a Starrett 199, so 0.0005 per foot.


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On this caliber of Lathe, .0005 is pretty good. Over what length and diameter are you getting that result?

I’ve seen some folks who have machines that are pretty worn, use their level on the carriage. That way the readings are relative to how the carriage is riding on the bed and taking the wear into account. Essentially, these guys are intentionally putting twist into the bed to combat wear.

While taking Richard King’s class, he demoed a method of twisting a lathe bed intentionally by turning a piece of material, measuring the taper, placing a magnetic base indicator on the toolpost,and the indicator on the workpiece, then adjusting the bed so the taper is worked out of the part. After that he would take a test cut, and make another adjustment with mag base on the toolpost and the indicator on the workpiece. There’s a little trial and error with this method, but he was able to fix a lathe that was cutting a .002” taper over 6” and got it down to around .0001” during this quick demo. (He could have gotten it perfect with a little more time)


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[ClappedOutBport]

Andy,

I replaced the bearings with what was existing in this machine, and the previous machine. I believe these to be “Industrial” grade. Not sure where that lands on the ABEC scale. Personally, given the grade of these machines, and the existing wear, I believe that this is more than adequate.

I was able to find new old stock timken bearings on eBay for about $15 each, shipping included.


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Did they seem to work fine? I've been talking to guys one PM since I may possibly have to replace spindle bearings on a '43 Sidney, and they're telling me how not only will the $100 industrial bearings not do, but the $500 class 3 bearings will not do, and that I need $1000+ class 0 bearings for an old worn out lathe. I'm sure it started with something that good, but I feel that these cheaper lathes probably just use the industrial grade bearings and do fine. I need to replace the spindle bearings in a 10" Rockwell soon as well, and I don't really think they are any thing special.

 

[Cahark]

Did they seem to work fine? I've been talking to guys one PM since I may possibly have to replace spindle bearings on a '43 Sidney, and they're telling me how not only will the $100 industrial bearings not do, but the $500 class 3 bearings will not do, and that I need $1000+ class 0 bearings for an old worn out lathe. I'm sure it started with something that good, but I feel that these cheaper lathes probably just use the industrial grade bearings and do fine. I need to replace the spindle bearings in a 10" Rockwell soon as well, and I don't really think they are any thing special.

I would like to start this conversation out by saying that I am not a spindle expert by any means. This is only my personal opinion and I have zero formal education on the subject.

It is my personal belief that industrial bearings were more than adequate for the 5400. In fact, this is what where in both machines when I acquired them. These machines were relatively light duty and I would guess that they were mostly used in Motor repair shops, trade schools, maintenance shops,automotive shops etc. (places that wouldn’t require the same level of rigidity or accuracy as a tool maker) These machines were a little bit better than Atlas craftsman, and I believe sometimes made by Atlas. Many of these caliber machines still used Babbitt bearings.

When it comes to the next level up from these machines, precision bearings should almost always be used. I would never in a million years put “industrial grade”bearings in my Monarch 10EE, or for that matter any other high Quality engine lathe.

On a parallel subject, I feel that there’s room for argument When it comes to the need for new spindle bearings on a machine that’s nearly worn out. Unless you’re going to address the list of other problems including regrinding and re-scraping the bed and other components, you need to weigh out if it’s really worth the expense when there’s going to be other problems fighting you.

Just my 2 cents. Doesn’t make it right.





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[AndySomogyi]

I did get a set if new spindle bearings for mine. The original ones were run without oil, and races are galled up.

I’ve been thinking if it’s possible to measure and identify the runout if the bearings and orient them such that the runout is on the same sides so you don’t get a spindle wobble. Spindle running out of round is easy to fix, just turn the chuck back plate, but wobble is hard to deal with.

I just ordered industrial bearings. Even the class 3 bearings would have cost about $1000, which is insane for a lathe that’s not even worth that.

I measured the runout if the new races and one is about 50 millionths and other is not measurable.




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[Cahark]

Happy to hear that you are making progress. These are nice machines once you do a little tuneup.

Did your back gear bushings fit well?

You may be surprised with how much your machine is worth. Probably in the 2-3000 range depending on your area. There are a lot of folks who just want to buy a machine that’s ready to go, and not have to fix anything.


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[AndySomogyi]

Happy to hear that you are making progress. These are nice machines once you do a little tuneup.

Did your back gear bushings fit well?

You may be surprised with how much your machine is worth. Probably in the 2-3000 range depending on your area. There are a lot of folks who just want to buy a machine that’s ready to go, and not have to fix anything.


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Yup, managed to get the bushes to fit perfectly. Took quite a few tries on scrap before I came up with some techniques of dealing with the backlash and worn top slide gibs. But at least when I get to scraping those, it won’t be too bad.

The rear bearing race is definitely bad, but the front bearing seems nice. I don’t know, I measure runout under preload, and get about 1-2 tenths in the front. I’m tempted to leave the front one in, as there’s a possibility the new one is lower spec.




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[wfournier]

Just wanted to say thanks for documenting this so well. I just picked up a close cousin of your first 5448 (also a 5448), serial number 001940 so only six off from you first one.

 

[bgoss]

This is my first complete restore the clausing-5400. This post was an inspiration to me thanks for your hard work it helped me a lot.