Clausing Drill Press 460V question

[rust buster]

Hi all,
I'm looking to purchase a Clausing 2277 drill press, but it is 460V 3PH. I know it's easy to get a VFD or Phase converter when going from 1 Ph 230 to 3 Ph 230, but what are my options to make the 460V drill work in my shop? Could I just replace the motor with a 1PH 230 or will that mess up any of the other electronic controls on the machine? I'm guessing it's from the 50s or 60s.
Thanks!

 

[cvairwerks]

The 2277 uses a 2 speed 3P motor, with 110 VAC for controls. You could replace it with the motor from a 2276 as it's a 2 speed 3P, 240 VAC motor. If you switch to a single speed motor, you loose half the speed range for the machine.

To go with a VFD, you would probably have to boost the hp rating and add on an external transformer to get the 460VAC.

 

[rust buster]

The 2277 uses a 2 speed 3P motor, with 110 VAC for controls. You could replace it with the motor from a 2276 as it's a 2 speed 3P, 240 VAC motor. If you switch to a single speed motor, you loose half the speed range for the machine.

To go with a VFD, you would probably have to boost the hp rating and add on an external transformer to get the 460VAC.

Thanks for the quick reply. So it sounds like it being a 460V motor is not a reason to shy away. Just need a motor swap out, and a converter for that to 1PH?

 

[CallumRD1]

Also check out the motor data plate and wiring diagrams. Most every 3 phase motor I've worked with has been 230V/460V dual voltage. You configure the 9 (I think?) wires coming out of the motor body differently to switch voltages.

 

[GeoBruin]

Also check out the motor data plate and wiring diagrams. Most every 3 phase motor I've worked with has been 230V/460V dual voltage. You configure the 9 (I think?) wires coming out of the motor body differently to switch voltages.

It sounds like OP only has 230 single phase in his shop. If they have 230 3 phase, yes, first thing first, find an original manual or wiring diagram and make sure it can't just be wired for 230v.

 

[rust buster]

He's a picture of the motor

 

[rust buster]

It sounds like OP only has 230 single phase in his shop. If they have 230 3 phase, yes, first thing first, find an original manual or wiring diagram and make sure it can't just be wired for 230v.

You are correct, sorry if I wasn't clear on that. I have 400A coming to my shop, but only 1 Phase, (2) 200A panels. I have a DoAll bandsaw that has 3 PH 230, so that was easy with a Cedarberg phase converter.

 

[CallumRD1]

It sounds like OP only has 230 single phase in his shop. If they have 230 3 phase, yes, first thing first, find an original manual or wiring diagram and make sure it can't just be wired for 230v.

Yes, I should have elaborated. I was coming at it from the perspective that if the motor can be wired up to take 230V 3 phase power then it can be hooked up to widely available VFDs and phase converters that run on 230V single phase without replacing the motor.

 

[CallumRD1]

He's a picture of the motor

Is there a wiring diagram on the side of the motor somewhere? It may be on the inside of the junction box.

 

[GeoBruin]

Is there a wiring diagram on the side of the motor somewhere? It may be on the inside of the junction box.

By no means take this as gospel, but typically when I see a motor that can be wired for 230/460 volts, it's represented that way on the plate... "230/460".

 

[cvairwerks]

Clausing's sales sheet for the 2277 shows it to be a 460 only motor, while the 2276 shows as a 240 only motor.

 

[rust buster]

The lack of "230/460" is the only reason why I haven't pulled the trigger yet. Trying to gauge how big a deal that is....

 

[CallumRD1]

It's a 184 frame motor. Those are extremely common in the 2-10 horsepower range. You can probably find a used 230V motor that would be a drop in replacement very cheaply, either three phase so you can use a VFD for speed control or single phase (less common) so you can just use wall power.

 

[rust buster]

It's a 184 frame motor. Those are extremely common in the 2-10 horsepower range. You can probably find a used 230V motor that would be a drop in replacement very cheaply, either three phase so you can use a VFD for speed control or single phase (less common) so you can just use wall power.

Great, that's exactly what I needed! Thank you

 

[rust buster]

She's crusty, but they are built to last

 

[shawhite]

That will clean up nice. No arc of shame on the table. I’m sure you can find a clausing motor on eBay. If you don’t want to go that route 3ph 1.5hp motors are relatively cheap you could also go with an inverter duty single phase motor and matching vfd (yes they make vfd for some single phase motors). If I remember correctly the clausing 2 speed is rated at 1.5hp at 1800rpms and .75hp at 900rpms.

 

[PoorUB]

It's a 184 frame motor. Those are extremely common in the 2-10 horsepower range. You can probably find a used 230V motor that would be a drop in replacement very cheaply, either three phase so you can use a VFD for speed control or single phase (less common) so you can just use wall power.

That would be the direction I would head. I would get the 3 phase motor and a VFD. More variable speed and reverse with the push of a button.

 

[rust buster]

Can anyone recommend a decent VFD for just that?

 

[American Locomotive]

The Teco L510-202-H1-U is a 2HP 230v 1ph > 3ph drive, and would do what you want. I also like the Automation Direct GS20 series drives because they have the best manuals that I've seen so far.

If you wanted to keep the original motor, you could just get a 230v > 460v single phase step-up transformer, and get a 3ph 460v drive (which will usually work just fine on 1 ph if you overrate it)

 

[rust buster]

The Teco L510-202-H1-U is a 2HP 230v 1ph > 3ph drive, and would do what you want. I also like the Automation Direct GS20 series drives because they have the best manuals that I've seen so far.

If you wanted to keep the original motor, you could just get a 230v > 460v single phase step-up transformer, and get a 3ph 460v drive (which will usually work just fine on 1 ph if you overrate it)

Thank you Sir! So with either of those, then I just need a 230V 3PH motor around 1.5HP that is single speed? Making sure it's the same frame size. Do I need to look for any specific RPM spec given I'll be going with a VFD?

 

[shawhite]

1800 rpm should give you from 300-2000 with just turning the wheel on the drill press. Then you could cut the vfd to 30hz to get down to 150rpm.

 

[rust buster]

Would this be a good motor candidate?
NEW BALDOR 1-1/2 HP ELECTRIC MOTOR 184 FRAME

208-230/460 VAC 1725 RPM 3PH M3606
Asking $270 for it

 

[rust buster]

Would this be a good motor candidate?
NEW BALDOR 1-1/2 HP ELECTRIC MOTOR 184 FRAME

208-230/460 VAC 1725 RPM 3PH M3606
Asking $270 for it

or is this one a better bet?
(BM3609) 2 Hp, 208-230/460 Vac, 3 Phase, 184 Frame,1800 Rpm, TEFC

 

[shawhite]

I would go with the m3606 I don’t see the need to step up to 2hp..

 

[PoorUB]

1-1/2 HP should be more than enough for a hobbist drill press.

I have a Powermatic 1200 with a 1 HP motor, variable speed and a VFD running it and I have yet to make it struggle drilling 1" holes in steel.

 

[Steve from Socal]

I just went through the same kind of issue with a 3HP grinder. I have 480 three phase and bought a grinder that I thought was 440/460/480 volt, turned out the motor is 550 volt. I use two .5 KVA single phase transformers wired in an open delta to get 600 volts. You would use 480/240 transformers to boost the voltage. Personally I would keep the two speed motor and functionality of the machine.

Steve

 

[Firebrick43]

I personally would shy away because of the reeves drive instead of the need for a vfd and motor. Reeves drives were the gold standard for drill presses, small lathes, and smaller mills for years because it was the only good solution for variable speed. Moving belts sucked and was slow. The problem with reeves drives is that they are noisy, and they have maintenance issues. Bushings wear, springs break, pulley halves wear unevenly where the belt sits, idiots try to adjust them while not moving and break forks, and so on.

Now with a vfd and a vfd rated 1725 rated motor you can go from 20 rpm to 3600 rpms with no issues. A good v belt drill press can be ran in just one speed for most work. I leave mine on the second lowest speed and have never changed it although I don't run large silver demming bits. An AX belt helps tremendously with the power that can be transmitted.

I have switched a half a dozen bridgeports over to vfd's and new motors. Everyone we trashed the reeves drive and installed a set of polyvee belts/sheaves.

 

[shawhite]

I personally would shy away because of the reeves drive instead of the need for a vfd and motor. Reeves drives were the gold standard for drill presses, small lathes, and smaller mills for years because it was the only good solution for variable speed. Moving belts sucked and was slow. The problem with reeves drives is that they are noisy, and they have maintenance issues. Bushings wear, springs break, pulley halves wear unevenly where the belt sits, idiots try to adjust them while not moving and break forks, and so on.

Now with a vfd and a vfd rated 1725 rated motor you can go from 20 rpm to 3600 rpms with no issues. A good v belt drill press can be ran in just one speed for most work. I leave mine on the second lowest speed and have never changed it although I don't run large silver demming bits. An AX belt helps tremendously with the power that can be transmitted.

I have switched a half a dozen bridgeports over to vfd's and new motors. Everyone we trashed the reeves drive and installed a set of polyvee belts/sheaves.

Yes please don’t buy arguably one of the best drill press out there because it has an evil reeves drive that has lasted 60 years and probably still operates fine. If not clausing is still in business and has parts available. Vfds are nice but they do have limitations as well.

 

[rust buster]

I pulled the trigger on the drill along with a Doall 16-3 bandsaw (1957). I got both of them for $1500. Then bought a new (open box) Baldor motor that I referenced in a response up above, and a new Teco VFD. I have my work cut out for me on both machines, but with some work and I am sure some bearings a parts, these should be lifetime machines and I am super excited. I was TDY to North Dakota two weeks ago and was able to visit an Acme Tools for the first time. Looking at their "Heavy Duty" drill presses, I was not that impressed with them, especially for the price. I know I'm taking a gamble, but as you all have said, both companies are still in business and parts are supposedly readily available...I guess I will find out!

 

[Firebrick43]

Yes please don’t buy arguably one of the best drill press out there because it has an evil reeves drive that has lasted 60 years and probably still operates fine. If not clausing is still in business and has parts available. Vfds are nice but they do have limitations as well.

I guess the phrase "shy away from" and even listing the positives of reeves drives("gold standard") was not sufficient. I would guess you have a drill press with a reeves drive and are insulted? Sorry for offending you on the altar of reeves.

 

[shawhite]

I guess the phrase "shy away from" and even listing the positives of reeves drives("gold standard") was not sufficient. I would guess you have a drill press with a reeves drive and are insulted? Sorry for offending you on the altar of reeves.

I actually have an arboga. But that’s neither here nor there. You just made it seem like all reeves drives should be avoided. I would agree if we were talking about the delta reeves drive but the clausing is proven reliable.

 

[Davefr]

The problem with reeves drives is that they are noisy, and they have maintenance issues. Bushings wear, springs break, pulley halves wear unevenly where the belt sits, idiots try to adjust them while not moving and break forks, and so on.

Agree. I also hate Reeves drives for the same reasons (especially the noise). In addition parts can range from unobtainium to incredibly expensive.

However Clausings are very nice machines and if I found one with a Reeves drive at a "you ****" price, it would be in my garage pretty quick.

 

[Firebrick43]

I actually have an arboga. But that’s neither here nor there. You just made it seem like all reeves drives should be avoided. I would agree if we were talking about the delta reeves drive but the clausing is proven reliable.

The ones in the Clausing lathes were not, the Bridgeport's were not, the Powermatic's were not. The ones in Hardinge lathes, well they were more reliable than the drives in a 10ee but still needed maintenance. I will have to take your word about the Clausing drill press. I would be surprised if they were better than their lathes however

 

[shawhite]

The ones in the Clausing lathes were not, the Bridgeport's were not, the Powermatic's were not. The ones in Hardinge lathes, well they were more reliable than the drives in a 10ee but still needed maintenance. I will have to take your word about the Clausing drill press. I would be surprised if they were better than their lathes however

We can agree to disagree. All the models you listed have proven themselves in industrial setting for years.

 

[Firebrick43]

We can agree to disagree. All the models you listed have proven themselves in industrial setting for years.

And I have repaired them in industrial setting for years. Thats my day job

The reeves drive is generally the least reliable part of the machines they are installed in.

and now it has 60 years on it.

Say it needs the motor sheave assembly , part number 2271-25, 1120 dollars.

driven sheave halves, lever and bushings for the middle shaft is going to be at least that much as well. There is 5 bearings in the middle shaft as well, at least 120 plus dollars at a bearing house. I would need to call them Monday morning to find out exactly.

On the other hand a new step pulley rarely cost more than a hundred dollars. And with a VFD there you still have the variable speed.

 

[calandrod]

How’s it running these days? Did you get it all setup?

 

[rust buster]

Lol....I have it in the shop, I bought a new motor for it, but that's about it. It was supposed to be a winter project, along with my 1959 Doall 16-3 band saw, but life got in the way. High on the list though and when I do, I am sure I will have lots of questions and pictures to post.

 

[rust buster]

Well I just had some time and went down to the shop to play with this. I got the new motor mounted and wired to a Teco L510 I have that’s currently running my pedestal grinder. Wired the motor to that and it fired right up. Couple of questions…

The motor has a high pitch squeal that is due to the VFD. Is there a setting to reduce that? I want to say I saw I video of a guy who had the same issue and one setting made it go way completely.

Also, when I dial the VFD up between 45-60 Hz, and then dial the drill press up to a higher speed, it often causes the VFD to blow a “OU-C” error, which could be caused by many things, but I get the impression it’s too much load/resistance on the motor. Is that fixable via a setting?

Is the L510 a good application for this or would a KBAC be better?

Finally, anyone know of a good replacement chuck for these 2277 drill presses? Seems like Clausing has a firm grip on their parts and there’s not many suppliers. I’m reading it’s an M3T chuck with some proprietary adapter. The existing chuck has some runout .

 

[American Locomotive]

Well, what Teco L510 drive did you get? That series covers 1/4 - 3 HP. If you have a 0.25 HP drive, it's not going to like your 1.5HP motor.

 

[rust buster]

I’ve got the 2hp one