Clean Slate Garage
- Thread starter LSVLance
- Start date
As with most plans...things change! 
After looking at a bunch of "welding tables" here and on YouTube...and lusting over them. I've decided that while I want a cool welding table, I really NEED a big strong heavy work BENCH.
So my plans have ventured back toward the work bench design. I've also decided to just modify the welding cart my Miller is on now to make it more user friendly and not try to incorporate it into my work bench.
So here's where I'm at now. The open design in the front will not only let me get under it on a stool and but not having a shelf under there to collect grinding dust and slag...along with anything else I can fit on it will also be a nice feature.
I learned a bunch of other nice little tips and tricks from this video which I hope to add onto the bench as I get it up and working. The ends that slide out to expand the overall length of the bench really interest me.
A friend also offered to loan a cut off saw which means I can buy long lengths of tube and cut it as I need it instead of trying to figure out all of the lengths ahead of time for the metal shop to cut. Hope to start buying steel soon...maybe by next weekend I'll be making sparks.
After looking at a bunch of "welding tables" here and on YouTube...and lusting over them. I've decided that while I want a cool welding table, I really NEED a big strong heavy work BENCH.
So my plans have ventured back toward the work bench design. I've also decided to just modify the welding cart my Miller is on now to make it more user friendly and not try to incorporate it into my work bench.
So here's where I'm at now. The open design in the front will not only let me get under it on a stool and but not having a shelf under there to collect grinding dust and slag...along with anything else I can fit on it will also be a nice feature.
I learned a bunch of other nice little tips and tricks from this video which I hope to add onto the bench as I get it up and working. The ends that slide out to expand the overall length of the bench really interest me.
A friend also offered to loan a cut off saw which means I can buy long lengths of tube and cut it as I need it instead of trying to figure out all of the lengths ahead of time for the metal shop to cut. Hope to start buying steel soon...maybe by next weekend I'll be making sparks.
rattle_snake
Well-known member
Consider building both a heavy duty workbench AND a welding table at some point. I think you have the room for both. That way you can keep bench clean-ish and do dirty work on table. Down side is 2x the cost & effort and steel isn't cheap! Perhaps your wood top toolbox bench setup already is the clean side.
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I'm starting to get pretty good at this Sketchup stuff...
Here is where I'm at now. 1/4" steel bench top 30x48 with a 24" slide extension out each end and two bar mounts out the front for vices, grinders etc. The top is 33" high. The outer blocks on the bottom bar are 4" floor locks and the inner blocks are 4" locking casters (2 swivel, 2 rigid).
I'll add diagonal gussets in later where needed for strength.
Now, I just need to figure out what material to get...
A trip to IMS yesterday led me to two choices.
Smaller choice is 2 x 2 x 3/16" square tube for majority and 1.5 x 1.5 x 11 ga for the pieces that slide into them.
Larger choice is 2.5 x 2.5 x 1/4" square tube for the majority and 2 x 2 x 1/4" for the pieces that slide into them.
I want it to be heavy enough that it won't be moving around when cranking on something in the vice and was leaning toward the big stuff because of this...until I got the quote!! The bigger material bill is more than double the little bit smaller material.
So I'm leaning toward the 2 x 2 and 1.5 x 1.5 sq tube option. Any thoughts on this?
Here is where I'm at now. 1/4" steel bench top 30x48 with a 24" slide extension out each end and two bar mounts out the front for vices, grinders etc. The top is 33" high. The outer blocks on the bottom bar are 4" floor locks and the inner blocks are 4" locking casters (2 swivel, 2 rigid).
I'll add diagonal gussets in later where needed for strength.
Now, I just need to figure out what material to get...
A trip to IMS yesterday led me to two choices.
Smaller choice is 2 x 2 x 3/16" square tube for majority and 1.5 x 1.5 x 11 ga for the pieces that slide into them.
Larger choice is 2.5 x 2.5 x 1/4" square tube for the majority and 2 x 2 x 1/4" for the pieces that slide into them.
I want it to be heavy enough that it won't be moving around when cranking on something in the vice and was leaning toward the big stuff because of this...until I got the quote!! The bigger material bill is more than double the little bit smaller material.
So I'm leaning toward the 2 x 2 and 1.5 x 1.5 sq tube option. Any thoughts on this?
jalbrecht55
Active member
One thought is to make sure that you get the correct seamless receiver style tubing, not standard box tubing, as the welded joint on the interior will interfere. Btw it’s not cheap!
That is why I made a trip to IMS on Friday, to hand slip tubing inside one another to be sure they fit.
The smaller choice there is 2 x 2 x 3/16" square tube for majority and 1.5 x 1.5 x 11 ga for the pieces that slide into them.
The larger choice is 2.5 x 2.5 x 1/4" square tube for the majority and 2 x 2 x 1/4" for the pieces that slide into them.
I have found a few wholesale type steel places that should have better pricing and have my list of materials ready to shop them in the morning.
Using the weight lists on the supply house websites puts the bench right at around 500# if I use the 2.5" sq tube. I'm leaning that direction and hoping I can find it a bit cheaper than IMS rates.
rattle_snake
Well-known member
I would go with the larger dimension tube but thinner wall thickness. 1/8 (11ga) is plenty for any of the pieces.
As or the the prices, good thing you are getting quotes before hand. I've about soiled myself with recent prices and wouldn't want that to happen at will call!
Other than secretly selling some of the wife's jewelry, think about the amount of time you will spend building the bench and how much use it will get. A few hundred buck more might not seem like a big deal after you do a few high dollar projects on it. Take your time, do it right.
Made some progress on the bench Sunday.
Started out by clamping the 4 pieces that make up one side leg together and down to the top sitting on a couple other pieces of tube.
Then took it all apart so I could drill a couple holes in the top piece with the drill press to put bolts in to hold vice mounts in place once finished...then clamped it back down again.
Started running beads and tweaking the welder settings but I couldn't get it to make enough heat just plugged into the 120v outlet near the hoist.
So I moved everything to the back of the shop where my 240v plug is and started over tweaking the settings.
It went MUCH easier with the 240v feeding the Miller.
Got one side done and ground down the crappy welds before calling it a day.
Here's what the floor locks and casters will look like once attached to the legs...
Things should go much faster the next time I get the welder out, hopefully later this week.
Started out by clamping the 4 pieces that make up one side leg together and down to the top sitting on a couple other pieces of tube.
Then took it all apart so I could drill a couple holes in the top piece with the drill press to put bolts in to hold vice mounts in place once finished...then clamped it back down again.
Started running beads and tweaking the welder settings but I couldn't get it to make enough heat just plugged into the 120v outlet near the hoist.
So I moved everything to the back of the shop where my 240v plug is and started over tweaking the settings.
It went MUCH easier with the 240v feeding the Miller.
Got one side done and ground down the crappy welds before calling it a day.
Here's what the floor locks and casters will look like once attached to the legs...
Things should go much faster the next time I get the welder out, hopefully later this week.
Put a bit more time in on the welder this morning. I ran out of 0.24 wire so I put my roll of 0.30 wire in and put the Miller 211 on "autoset" just to see how it would be different.
This was the first weld on autoset...
After a few welds I liked the higher heat but it was feeding wire too fast for me so I slowed the wire speed down...then started practicing with different positions.
Overall I'm pretty pleased with how my welding is progressing. I'm still having to grind quite a bit but I'm able to leave some un-ground without being too embarrassed to have them show...
Got both side legs ready, next I'll be working on the cross pieces putting them all together as one.
This was the first weld on autoset...
After a few welds I liked the higher heat but it was feeding wire too fast for me so I slowed the wire speed down...then started practicing with different positions.
Overall I'm pretty pleased with how my welding is progressing. I'm still having to grind quite a bit but I'm able to leave some un-ground without being too embarrassed to have them show...
Got both side legs ready, next I'll be working on the cross pieces putting them all together as one.
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Lance, I think you'll like that .030" wire for most general purpose stuff although I have my MM211 setup with .024" for lighter materials.
Looking forward to seeing the bench come together, looks good so far.
Looking forward to seeing the bench come together, looks good so far.
If I could ever get more than an hour or two at a time to work on this, I'd be making much more progress on it. That said...it became much more "bench looking" today.
Got the 3 cross pieces welded in today, everything is square, true, and solid as a rock. I don't think there is any need for any diagonal braces on this...plenty stout as is.
The top isn't attached yet, just sitting there for now.
I'm weighing options now about how to attach the top, whether a front to back cross brace is needed to secure center of top, whether to strip the scale off the top side or leave it...etc etc.
Next time in the shop I'll drill the holes in the bottom of the pieces that will go left to right that the side extensions will slide into then get them welded in. I'll weld nuts over the holes that will let me run a bolt in to clamp the extensions in place. Easier to drill them on drill press before attaching the tubes to the frame.
Got the 3 cross pieces welded in today, everything is square, true, and solid as a rock. I don't think there is any need for any diagonal braces on this...plenty stout as is.
The top isn't attached yet, just sitting there for now.
I'm weighing options now about how to attach the top, whether a front to back cross brace is needed to secure center of top, whether to strip the scale off the top side or leave it...etc etc.
Next time in the shop I'll drill the holes in the bottom of the pieces that will go left to right that the side extensions will slide into then get them welded in. I'll weld nuts over the holes that will let me run a bolt in to clamp the extensions in place. Easier to drill them on drill press before attaching the tubes to the frame.
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So I'm back working on the bench once again. I struggled with what to do with the top of the bench long enough...it's time to decide whether to remove the mill scale or not.
I decided that I'd prefer a raw steel top...so the mill scale had to go. For those not familiar with the process...it does NOT come off easily. So I broke out the big guns...a half gallon of muratic acid. You can see the marks in this first picture where I unsuccessfully tried to remove it with a brand new flap disc.
This was after the first round of acid was neutralized...
Decided I needed to get it out of the sun and leave the acid on longer. Getting there...
4th times a charm... Cleaned up pretty good with a flap disc...now ready to weld to the base.
I decided that I'd prefer a raw steel top...so the mill scale had to go. For those not familiar with the process...it does NOT come off easily. So I broke out the big guns...a half gallon of muratic acid.
You can see the marks in this first picture where I unsuccessfully tried to remove it with a brand new flap disc.
This was after the first round of acid was neutralized...
Decided I needed to get it out of the sun and leave the acid on longer. Getting there...
4th times a charm... Cleaned up pretty good with a flap disc...now ready to weld to the base.
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Looks good Lance. I keep waffling on mine. I've had the mill scale on mine since I built it about 10 years ago and keep going back and forth on whether or not to remove it but never seem to find the time to actually try it. I may have to give it a go something this year using muriatic acid as I've seen a few people recommend that now.
More and more of the little pieces of steel are joining the one big piece of steel...
Today I drilled the holes and welded the nuts on for the bolts to hold the slide outs in place...
Then it was time to weld the top on.
With a creative use of alignment shims and clamps, I was able to tweak the top to dern near completely flat across the whole thing. There are a couple small less than 1/16" dips in a couple spots but other than that is is flat and secure.
After that it was time to hang the tubes that will hold the side extension slide outs. Only set myself on fire a handful of times but I will say I am getting better at welding on the bottom of things...which is a nice side effect of doing a project like this.
Quick coat of Eastwood Rust Encapsulator and it's ready for me to start building the extensions and device holders.
I have to say it rolls around pretty good on the casters and is pretty steady on the floor locks as well. Can't wait to start doing work on the bench instead of working ON the bench itself...
Today I drilled the holes and welded the nuts on for the bolts to hold the slide outs in place...
Then it was time to weld the top on.
With a creative use of alignment shims and clamps, I was able to tweak the top to dern near completely flat across the whole thing. There are a couple small less than 1/16" dips in a couple spots but other than that is is flat and secure.
After that it was time to hang the tubes that will hold the side extension slide outs. Only set myself on fire a handful of times but I will say I am getting better at welding on the bottom of things...which is a nice side effect of doing a project like this.
Quick coat of Eastwood Rust Encapsulator and it's ready for me to start building the extensions and device holders.
I have to say it rolls around pretty good on the casters and is pretty steady on the floor locks as well. Can't wait to start doing work on the bench instead of working ON the bench itself...
rattle_snake
Well-known member
Seems like a better ground (lower impedance current return path) can be had when welding, with scale removed.
If not a welding bench,
then the scale is kind of a protectant I guess.
Given the thread title, the acid wash makes it a 'clean slate'.
When I bought my bench top the pickled and oiled was same price as hot roll (aka way too much!).
If not a welding bench,
then the scale is kind of a protectant I guess.
Given the thread title, the acid wash makes it a 'clean slate'.
When I bought my bench top the pickled and oiled was same price as hot roll (aka way too much!).
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Seems like a better ground (lower impedance current return path) can be had when welding, with scale removed.
If not a welding bench,
then the scale is kind of a protectant I guess.
Given the thread title, the acid wash makes it a 'clean slate'.
When I bought my bench top the pickled and oiled was same price as hot roll (aka way too much!).
Nice.
I see what ya did there Justin.
I have to say it was pretty nice working today on the table building the extensions. I think I'm going to like this once complete.
Ran out of gas while welding up the second extension otherwise it would be pretty close to finished.
Now I just need to find a vice or two, some grinders and who knows what else so I can build extensions to mount them on.
Ran out of gas while welding up the second extension otherwise it would be pretty close to finished.
Now I just need to find a vice or two, some grinders and who knows what else so I can build extensions to mount them on.
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jalbrecht55
Active member
Nice job! Good to see you got everything aligned well enough that the extensions slide in and out. A friend of mine tried to make a “dual” receiver hitch once for a carrying a rack and had the hardest time with that. It slid in and out fine...as long as you had a sledgehammer handy.
Thanks! That is precisely why I used long tubes running side to side and made sure I had them exactly square before welding them in place. I also clamped the extension pieces in place and tacked them before removing to final weld them. These are actually square enough that each one will slide right into to other side if needed.
rattle_snake
Well-known member
Nicely done. Not having the vice always on the table top is beneficial.
Overall the table is executed very well. nice job.
Overall the table is executed very well. nice job.
rixtrix1
Well-known member
Looks like the table turned out very well, Lance. I haven't had to buy any steel since the big increase, but IMS prices always have made me choke. I used to get DOM from Tube Service Co, but I had a connection thru a chassis shop. Now I get most of mine from Davis Salvage(~34th St and Washington) because they buy all my scrap metal back, too, but I'm sure there are closer places to you on the west/north side. They let me go out in the yard and choose my own pieces, which is how I found 260' of DOM they sold me for ERW price as they don't stock it. Anyhow, go make something!
See ya Sunday at the track?
See ya Sunday at the track?
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Table turned out great Lance, especially with the addition of your vise mount.
Thanks... All we did was grind the new concrete smooth with 60 grit, fill all cracks and voids with epoxy caulk, grind again with 80 grit and cover with a clear Polyaspartic coating.
It's been almost a year now and I've been pretty rough on parts of it. The polyaspartic doesn't protect from a hard hit like a metal edge hitting the floor hard nearly as well as some epoxys will but overall I really like how easy it is to keep clean and how it is holding up.
If you look closely at the seam under the table you can see burn marks where welding slag and sparks have burnt the epoxy but the floor itself held up well. There are spots with some wear especially from dirt and traffic...like under the wheels of my office chair that have lost their gloss. I haven't tried yet, but I bet with some buffing and polishing the gloss would come back.
I'd do it again for sure, it gets a lot of compliments because it's different.
I was tired of my hoses just being piled up on the ground and fighting with rolling them up or pulling them out...so this hose reel was the answer.
The houses here use Styrofoam covered with a thin layer of stucco for siding so attaching just about anything to the house itself is impossible.
I had some tube steel leftover from the bench and had a deep desire for a stout water hose reel mount...and a plan was hatched.
The 2.5 x 2.5 tube was painted and set firmly into the ground surrounded by a bag's worth of Quikcrete.
The piece that the hose reel attaches to is just set into the top of the tube. This allows the reel to be removed easily if needed.
The hose can now be easily rolled in or pulled out from either direction and stored neatly when not in use.
My next fabrication project is going to be furniture related...I'm going to extend the legs on a dining room table 6" to make it work with stools instead of chairs. Wish me luck!!
Love love LOVE having a nice work bench with a nice vise attached to use to get things done in the shop once again.
The houses here use Styrofoam covered with a thin layer of stucco for siding so attaching just about anything to the house itself is impossible.
I had some tube steel leftover from the bench and had a deep desire for a stout water hose reel mount...and a plan was hatched.
The 2.5 x 2.5 tube was painted and set firmly into the ground surrounded by a bag's worth of Quikcrete.
The piece that the hose reel attaches to is just set into the top of the tube. This allows the reel to be removed easily if needed.
The hose can now be easily rolled in or pulled out from either direction and stored neatly when not in use.
My next fabrication project is going to be furniture related...I'm going to extend the legs on a dining room table 6" to make it work with stools instead of chairs. Wish me luck!!
Love love LOVE having a nice work bench with a nice vise attached to use to get things done in the shop once again.
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Stout is right Lance, that thing isn't going anywhere. Great job.
rattle_snake
Well-known member
Did your shop get fully sheathed under stucco, or just the corners for sheer? I have 1/2" OSB everywhere and it's enough to hang lighter duty things. Anyhow nice reel hanger.
I recently add an air hose outside next to my water spigots, it is really handy for lots of things. Wish I would have done it decades ago.
I recently add an air hose outside next to my water spigots, it is really handy for lots of things. Wish I would have done it decades ago.
rixtrix1
Well-known member
You must have some big snakes there, Lance. My DIL in the hills of north San Diego had to put 1/4" screen to keep the snakes out. Great hose reel; where'd you source it?
Stout is right Lance, that thing isn't going anywhere. Great job.
Thanks!!
Thanks!! It is not fully sheathed.
Even where there is plywood under the stucco, I'm still afraid to try to attach anything because it'll destroy the foam and stucco. This is all new to me, I came from the land of wood sided houses...
I'm (read "the wife) is only afraid of the big ones!!
Hose reel came from Lowes...about $100 but it's a nice one that should last a while.
rixtrix1
Well-known member
Looks like a "burnout " pad to me, or a place to practice auto/X starts, LOL. Sure can't beat a solid surface for any kind of mechanical work, especially outdoors!
tc-cad
Well-known member
Can you share what the square foot cost to build Home Only is in AZ? I live in Wisconsin we have basements so that does ad to the cost. I was told I could build simple not fancy home for around $220/square foot. To me that just seems like a lot?
That is a hard question for me to answer, mainly because of the lot cost involved and what options you choose to add on. The majority of the builders that I see around here are national\production type builders like Pulte, Shea, Taylor Morrison, Toll Brothers and such and typically they do a subdivision start to finish.
They develop the land, design the homes for the land, sell and build them all in house. The lots can be anywhere from 15,000 sq ft to 40,000 sq ft and be anywhere from next door to a landfill to having fantastic mountain views in gated subdivisions. All of those variables greatly affect the price of the homes.
If you back out the cost of our lot completely and the options (RV garage, pool, landscaping)...it was about $130/ft to build our nice 3091 sq ft, single level, 3 bedroom home on a slab. Including all options and finish costs, it was close to $275/ft.
Overall the cost of living here is very similar to what it was in Kansas City, gas prices, groceries, insurance, taxes, etc all are pretty much a wash. The cost of housing is a bit higher initially going in...but the hope is the value of your home increases and you you get it all back and some if and when you sell (as long as you make wise choices in how you spend your money on your home).
So I haven't updated the thread in a while...mainly because I've been too busy working IN the shop instead of ON the shop.
I gave our breakfast nook table a 6" lift kit... It started life as table height, is now counter height.
The new workbench helped tremendously for this project as did all the experience with the welder gained while building it.
I then moved on to the Monte Carlo. The carb on it worked great for years but had been giving me issues the last couple of races...so with it being off season I finally decided to EFI swap it. This was not a simple job by any means...I basically changed everything engine related except the long block itself. Built a custom fuel tank integrating a Gen 5 Camaro SS fuel module, all new fuel lines, new intake manifold, new distributor, new throttle body, all new engine harness with supporting ECU, new relay box to control all the new electronic parts and lastly new V-band clamps on the headers and head tubes of the exhaust. Plan was for it to take 3 weeks, it took 7.5 weeks. Here is the first fire of the new setup though.
I was stoked to say the least... I've had it running a bit over a week now, been tuning on the Holley EFI software and have it dialed in pretty good I think.
With that project wrapped up I started in on project "Quiet RV". Our Class B+ has always had a horrible wind noise in the cab at highway speeds. After a trip to California couple weeks ago, I decided that I've had enough. Hour or so of taking out plastic trim revealed this...
I now have ALL of the trim including the seats and rubber floor liner out of the cab and am awaiting a box of sound and heat insulation supplies from Raamat to show up today to begin quieting things up a ton. I imagine that I can help with the noise tremendously considering what I'm starting with.
Anyway, you are now up to date with the projects taking place in the clean slate garage. I'm loving everything about the shop so far, especially the AC. The workbench has done so much to help out and has performed as I had hoped. The 4 post lift has been great, probably my only dislike regarding it is it is so slow going up. If I was doing projects for money I'd look seriously at upgrading the pump motor. I do kind of still wish for a big air compressor at times. I may still put that in motion but it'll be a while before it happens. Electrical upgrades would have to happen first.
Hope you all are enjoying your summer so far...
I gave our breakfast nook table a 6" lift kit... It started life as table height, is now counter height.
The new workbench helped tremendously for this project as did all the experience with the welder gained while building it.
I then moved on to the Monte Carlo. The carb on it worked great for years but had been giving me issues the last couple of races...so with it being off season I finally decided to EFI swap it. This was not a simple job by any means...I basically changed everything engine related except the long block itself. Built a custom fuel tank integrating a Gen 5 Camaro SS fuel module, all new fuel lines, new intake manifold, new distributor, new throttle body, all new engine harness with supporting ECU, new relay box to control all the new electronic parts and lastly new V-band clamps on the headers and head tubes of the exhaust. Plan was for it to take 3 weeks, it took 7.5 weeks. Here is the first fire of the new setup though.
I was stoked to say the least... I've had it running a bit over a week now, been tuning on the Holley EFI software and have it dialed in pretty good I think.
With that project wrapped up I started in on project "Quiet RV". Our Class B+ has always had a horrible wind noise in the cab at highway speeds. After a trip to California couple weeks ago, I decided that I've had enough. Hour or so of taking out plastic trim revealed this...
I now have ALL of the trim including the seats and rubber floor liner out of the cab and am awaiting a box of sound and heat insulation supplies from Raamat to show up today to begin quieting things up a ton. I imagine that I can help with the noise tremendously considering what I'm starting with.
Anyway, you are now up to date with the projects taking place in the clean slate garage. I'm loving everything about the shop so far, especially the AC. The workbench has done so much to help out and has performed as I had hoped. The 4 post lift has been great, probably my only dislike regarding it is it is so slow going up. If I was doing projects for money I'd look seriously at upgrading the pump motor. I do kind of still wish for a big air compressor at times. I may still put that in motion but it'll be a while before it happens. Electrical upgrades would have to happen first.
Hope you all are enjoying your summer so far...
rattle_snake
Well-known member
Why the Holley terminator over the other similar efi kits? Looking at the Holley sniper system myself.