Click or Dial wrench for low torque applications

[hotsho111]

Hey, I have some torque wrenches covering 10 ft/lbs to 250 ft/lbs and I keep running across bolts requiring less than 10 ft/lbs (engine work) and I was curious if you prefer micrometer click type torque wrenches or dial torque wrenches?

The two I have are PI split beam wrenches (and I love them) and I was looking at either getting the PREM1R200HX which is a 30-200in/lb click wrench or the PRED2F150HM which is a 0-150in/lb dial type.

One benefit of the dial wrench is that it does all the way down to 0 but it looks kinda big and I can already see it not fitting in a couple spots for bolts on my car.

 

[2oolhound]

Dial and beam are nice because you can watch the resistance build up. Great for setting preload on bearings etc. that are in it's range.

 

[T45]

The lowest torque ones are seemingly hardest to et right.

Interested to hear what peoples thoughts are on this.

 

[nicksnothereman]

Hey, I have some torque wrenches covering 10 ft/lbs to 250 ft/lbs and I keep running across bolts requiring less than 10 ft/lbs (engine work) and I was curious if you prefer micrometer click type torque wrenches or dial torque wrenches?

The two I have are PI split beam wrenches (and I love them) and I was looking at either getting the PREM1R200HX which is a 30-200in/lb click wrench or the PRED2F150HM which is a 0-150in/lb dial type.

One benefit of the dial wrench is that it does all the way down to 0 but it looks kinda big and I can already see it not fitting in a couple spots for bolts on my car.

Beam. I guess dial would be comparable (I mean better). Beams are decently accurate in my opinion and MUCH cheaper than the fancy stuff...but clearance is always an issue with them. If you can afford a dial get one.

 

[wild cowboy]

The main thing is to try and find the range you use the most in the small stuff - a lot of transmission pan bolts, for example, are in the 5 to 8 ft/lb range.

You want the small torque wrench to have that common range you use fall around 50-80% of the total range for greatest accuracy, so for those pan bolts, a 2 to 10 lb range wrench would be ideal.

Precision Instruments (the old maker of Snap-On) is probably the very best these days, and as far as dial vs. split beam clicker, dial is much more accurate, but clicker is easier to use and more durable in rough environments (no dial torque wrenches need to be in a roughneck oil drilling area)

 

[bob15]

Dial and beam are nice because you can watch the resistance build up. Great for setting preload on bearings etc. that are in it's range.

2oolhound hit the nail on the head. Low torque and clicker torque wrenches scare me because I never know how close I am to the torque number needed. With a dial, I can see it.

Personally I like the Snap On and Seekonk dial torque wrenches.

 

[Formula]

For times when torque specs are very low, I prefer a beam type wrench. I also have a very nice 1/4" drive snap on click type that works well.

 

[franzdom]

Split beam are CW drive only and sometimes you need a CCW in this range...vanos comes to mind. I like the digital ones because they tell you how far over you went. Dial ones do that too I guess but I have only used digital, beam and clicker ones.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Look for a 1/4 drive torque wrench. The ones I have seen, have a scewdriver handle you twist.

CDI Torque Screwdriver (handle)

 

[wild cowboy]

One benefit of the dial wrench is that it does all the way down to 0 but it looks kinda big and I can already see it not fitting in a couple spots for bolts on my car.

no torque wrench is accurate in the first 20% of its range, so going down to zero is not really a benefit

I use a clicker from PI that ranges from 20-100 in/lb (1.7 - 8.3 ft/lbs.) - unfortunately, it was custom built for Discount Tire and they are not available on the market.

 

[Tronyadorable]

Torque wrenches are for mission critical applications where clearance may vary with temp.
Rod and mains, HEADS....Maybe an exhaust manifold..If you can't tighten a pan gasket without a measuring devise try "Would you like an apple pie with that"

 

[T45]

^^^Na there is loads more stuff than that.

Not everybody is using carbon steel fasteners into cast iron engine blocks.

 

[T45]

Alloys and composites don't give the same tactile feedback (to bolt stretch)

And their failure modes **** worse

 

[Art From De Leon]

I have an S-K beam torque wrench that I would use to set axle bearing pre-loads, and a MAC dial type that I used to set the torque value on JD Perma-Clutches.

 

[hotsho111]

no torque wrench is accurate in the first 20% of its range, so going down to zero is not really a benefit

Ya, I know this rule of thumb. I did email PI about this a while back and they said the ratings on their torque wrenches are from 20%-100% (so in theory, a 20-100 foot pound torque wrench should be good to go from 20 pounds

Found it. Here is the actual quote I got from Todd at PI:
Question: 20% to 80%
Our tools are calibrated to their stated accuracy from 20% to 100% of range. Some critical industries (aerospace) made the 20% to 80% rule for their applications, which does not always apply to standard industry or DIY. You need to ask yourself where you will be doing the "MOST" clicking and if it's in the top 80% of that wrenches range, it is good to pick a wrench where that is more the middle of the range. That is only recommended because when you put a wrench to work at top 80% of the range with greater frequency you will shorten the parts life before it needs repaired again. Consider a car at 6,000 RPMs at all times, this car will need to come in for service more frequently.

 

[VoodooCLD]

I bought a dial type torque wrench after snapping off my 50th valve cover bolt. It is great for smaller torque values. Only problem is that they don't ratchet. I'm going to look into getting a high quality ratcheting adapter to use with it.

 

[wild cowboy]

Beam types are the most accurate, the cheapest, and last forever.

BEAM types are NOT the most accurate, that would be DIAL type torque wrenches.
a good explanation is here

 

[wild cowboy]

Torque wrenches are for mission critical applications where clearance may vary with temp.
Rod and mains, HEADS....Maybe an exhaust manifold..If you can't tighten a pan gasket without a measuring devise try "Would you like an apple pie with that"

Actually pan gaskets are probably the most frequently screwed up torquing job in all of auto mechanics, most everyone over-torques it, and the pan warps and that's why so many pans leak, especially auto-magic transmissions!

another very commonly screwed up one is the seal plate on the fuel tank where the sock and the fuel sender, pump etc. go in. - it often has little 5 or 6 ft/lb bolts.

I would say that after head bolts, pan gaskets are one of the most critical places to use a torque wrench! - and valve covers would be another critical one that is commonly overlooked.

 

[hotsho111]

Quick question for those with dial types, since they aren't exactly tiny do you ever run into clearance issues, especially since you need to actually see the dial to get the right reading?

I can specifically see running into clearance issues since I'm generally working on a boxer engine

 

[wild cowboy]

Quick question for those with dial types, since they aren't exactly tiny do you ever run into clearance issues, especially since you need to actually see the dial to get the right reading?

I can specifically see running into clearance issues since I'm generally working on a boxer engine

yes, that is the reason many people use clickers, however the best dial type brands (like Precision Instruments) have optional beeping warnings and/or a light that blinks to make up for the lack of the click!

 

[hotsho111]

Checking out PI's website it looks like the tooltopia description of the PRED2F150HM is wrong. The PI site lists it as 30 in/lb to 150 in/lb.

Is there any need to worry about torque values less than 3ft/lbs...that is ridiculously loose

 

[hotsho111]

however the best dial type brands (like Precision Instruments) have optional beeping warnings and/or a light that blinks to make up for the lack of the click!

Really? I didn't see anything mentioning (I'm looking at getting a Precision Instruments torque wrench cause the other ones I have are PI and they are awesome)

Edit: I do see in the descriptions there is a "with light signal option"

 

[Shadowdog500]

I like a beam type for really low torques. A dial torque screwdriver is also good for low torques.

+1 on checking pinion bearing preload with my 0-20 inch lb beam style torque wrench. Can't accurately check that with a clicker.

Chris

 

[tdkkart]

We have torque wrenches, and screwdrivers, at work that go down to inch-ounces, almost all of them are clicker types.

 

[nicksnothereman]

Most instances it is more important that you torque evenly than accurately. That's why even the best wrenches (except NASA) have a small percentage of error allowed. With micrometer, and most click type, you get a set even torque for all fasteners. With dial and beam types, the inaccuracy is in the reader. Most clicks are accurate for about 50,000 clicks. Beam types are the most accurate, the cheapest, and last forever. I have several of each. Usually depends on what I am working on and where I am working on it.

Not if it's "wet" (holding oil or coolant). Nuh uh.

 

[wild cowboy]

Really? I didn't see anything mentioning (I'm looking at getting a Precision Instruments torque wrench cause the other ones I have are PI and they are awesome)

Edit: I do see in the descriptions there is a "with light signal option"

any wrench with a light signal option can always be converted over to a beep if one is electronically inclined

 

[Shadowdog500]

Torque wrenches are for mission critical applications where clearance may vary with temp.
Rod and mains, HEADS....Maybe an exhaust manifold..If you can't tighten a pan gasket without a measuring devise try "Would you like an apple pie with that"

I used to think this years ago, but today's cars have aluminum parts with low torque values, I've seen a lot of stuff get stripped on newer cars. If there is a torque value shown in the factory manual, I torque it.

Chris

 

[hotsho111]

So, summing this up so far
it looks like the click types have the advantage of not needing to actually see it. You can get this with a dial, but it's pricey.

Click types can fit into tighter spaces

Dial types are more accurate

How often should dial torque wrenches be calibrated (do they even need it)? What about click types.

These get used at most a couple times a month but nothing too crazy (unless something crazy is going on)

 

[Adam.C]

no torque wrench is accurate in the first 20% of its range, so going down to zero is not really a benefit

I use a clicker from PI that ranges from 20-100 in/lb (1.7 - 8.3 ft/lbs.) - unfortunately, it was custom built for Discount Tire and they are not available on the market.

I don't believe this is true of electronic torque wrenches. They use strain Gages not springs to determine torque. I think user error accounts for the lion share of inaccuracy. Snap On has some interesting reading about the tech wrench and the problems it was designed to address. One is the early warning system, alerting the user to slow down. In testing, SnapOn determined that many of us pull too hard and too fast into the click. This results in over torque.

My next torque wrench will be electronic.

 

[bob15]

So, summing this up so far
it looks like the click types have the advantage of not needing to actually see it. You can get this with a dial, but it's pricey.

Click types can fit into tighter spaces

Dial types are more accurate

How often should dial torque wrenches be calibrated (do they even need it)? What about click types.

These get used at most a couple times a month but nothing too crazy (unless something crazy is going on)

You can put dial wrenches in the same spots as a clicker.

Dial can be more accurate to read for accuracy over a beam. Clicker tend to be more repeatable for a given torque over a 100 bolts due to the nature of the design of the clicker wrench. That being said, I still believe the low torque applications are best served by a dial, followed by a screwdriver type clicker.

Calibration: what are you working on? Some of my torque wrenches at home will go years without calibration. At work, they are calibrated every 3 months with a history record to go with them.

 

[wild cowboy]

Calibration frequency required has a lot to do with environment - do your torque wrenches get stored or used outside in bitter cold or scorching heat or both at various times of the year? - How often is the tool dropped? Frequently? Never?

Some torque wrenches live a really cushy life with no weather extremes, climate controlled storage (no high humidity) and are never dropped and tend to stay calibrated for a long time (years)

 

[bob15]

Calibration frequency required has a lot to do with environment - do your torque wrenches get stored or used outside in bitter cold or scorching heat or both at various times of the year? - How often is the tool dropped? Frequently? Never?

Some torque wrenches live a really cushy life with no weather extremes, climate controlled storage (no high humidity) and are never dropped and tend to stay calibrated for a long time (years)

It has nothing to do with weather or if it is hot or cold where they are stored (in a weather controlled room or a garage with weather/temp fluctuations) for the frequency of calibration. It has to do with how critical the parts are that are being assembled & torqued. It has to do with torquing components that if incorrectly torqued, will do irreparable damage to parts that have clearances of a millionth on an inch.

My torque wrenches, along with hundreds of other torque wrenches at work are in climate controlled rooms, but because of the tightness of the tolerances and how critical torques are, plus throw in the US government for some models and you have the need for constant checking of torque wrenches, mics, calipers, thermocouples, pressure transducers, proximity probes and even stop watches.

 

[dnschmidt]

Theoretically, strain gauge based torque wrenches (typically electronic digital torque wrenches) should be the best with respect to keeping their calibration as there are no springs or moving parts. I use Eclatorq, who frankly I think make the best electronic torque wrenches on earth, Snap-On freaks start throwing stones now, and they have been amazing at being dead on calibration for years. They also have a unique feature in that if you have a torque standard you can use that in conjunction with the Internet and a special cable to recalibrate the wrench over the Internet from Eclatorq's Website. You measure the 10%, 50%and 100% values using the calibrator and enter them along with what the values read on the torque wrench were on the site and the wrench is recalibrated to meet the correct values.

By the way Mac's digital torque wrenches are made by Eclatorq. What I like most about them is that they have an array of LED's that go off as the torque approaches the set value. Wrenches that have one, two or three lights sort of **** because by the time they light you've already exceeded target torque. Also, Eclatorq's LED's can be seen from any angle. Eliminating another pet ***** I have with most digital torque wrenches.

 

[abk241]

Each TW type (click & dial) has it's own set of pros and cons.
I've used both and prefer the dial type overall.

 

[Tronyadorable]

Baby beam
http://www.homedepot.com/p/GearWrench-1-4-in-Drive-Beam-Torque-Wrench-2955D/204622153?N=5yc1vZc6ev

 

[T45]

So what is the best dial torque wrench range (for 2-20NM)?

Precision Instruments?

 

[Jason280]

this is the one I'm currently using, and have a small 1/4" clicker in inch-pounds for scope rings, but still want a beam style...

 

[T45]

Baby beam
http://www.homedepot.com/p/GearWrench-1-4-in-Drive-Beam-Torque-Wrench-2955D/204622153?N=5yc1vZc6ev

This goes up to 7NM, and Is nice for smaller bolts...BUT

The standard size 3/8 beam goes up to 68NM, thus is only reliable from 68/5=14 to 68nm

Leaving a gap from 7 to 13NM

which is basically all of m6

So what model fits the gap?

 

[ttpete]

I bought a dial type torque wrench after snapping off my 50th valve cover bolt. It is great for smaller torque values. Only problem is that they don't ratchet. I'm going to look into getting a high quality ratcheting adapter to use with it.

Why? Proper usage is to snug everything up with conventional tools and then use the dial wrench to finish the job.

If you're twisting off valve cover bolts, you are either inexperienced or have no torque sense. I'm going to assume that you are not doing this for a living, because you wouldn't have a job very long in a commercial shop.

 

[hotsho111]

Jason, what do you think about that dial torque wrench? That looks pretty much identical to the dial I was considering.

Anyone consider using a digital torque wrench for low range applications?

I need something to cover 0 (in theory) to ~12 foot pounds.

There are a handul that do 30in/lb to 150 (or 2.5-12.5 foot pounds).

Has anyone encountered bolts that need to be torqued to less than 3 foot pounds? That's less than finger tight...