Coats balancer difficulty

[TractorTherapy]

I bought a refurbished Coats 1400 balancer off the internet. I've only played with it a couple of days now, but I'm having a hard time getting consistent results. I suspect it is my fault, not the machines. It came with 4 cones and a plastic quick hub nut.

1.) I have 4 new steel 16" 5 lug trailer tires and wheels that I thought would be a good place to start to play around/learn how to use the machine. I'm having the hardest time getting those mounted on the machine! They fit 2 of the cones, but I can't find the "technique" to mount them so that they are on there without wobble. My best/straightest mounts were by getting the tire on, spinning it towards me and then bumping the hub nut several times...1 of 5 attempts got the tire on "mostly" straight.
These cones aren't the ones that Coats sells with this machine...new, it would have come with a set of cones that are beveled in both directions vs mine which are beveled in one direction. The cones/plastic hub that came with my machine look like a set I could order from Amazon for about $100. I assume that the dual beveled cones have a shallower angle to them and perhaps this would help center and seat the wheel. But, is that my problem? Is it the tool, or operator technique?

2.) I tried with a factory mounted/balanced 18" AL wheel/tire off my car, which I have no reason to believe to be unbalanced, but it is approaching the tire wear marker. One of the 4 cones, fit a bevel on the inside of that wheel and it mounted up fairly easy. It indicated to add .5/.5. I mounted and unmounted this tire many times and it didn't always say .5/.5, but that was the median reading of about 15 attempts. I'm assuming that this is again operator technique, not machine error?

3.) Calibration: I have not calibrated the machine since it arrived by freight from across the country. I was initially hoping to use one of my new trailer tire/wheels as a calibration wheel by having it balanced at the shop up the street, but I'm hesitant to do so since I can't even mount it straight. The manual doesn't indicate what size/type of tire to use for calibration...I was thinking of getting just a used AL wheel at the junk yard with a small hole and a new/cheap tire for it. Thoughts?
Thanks!

 

[mikedodge]

It shouldn't be that hard to get a wheel on it straight. Find a cone that fits the hole the best like maybe half way into it or so, stick it on the shaft then the nut. Is the wheel on all the way? The back of the rim has to come in contact with the flat surface of the machines hub. I always spin the nut on then hold the machine's hub to stop that from turning and give the nut another push to make sure it's tight. Some wheels like real wire ones with a deep center it can work better put the wheel on then the cone.

If could be the aftermarket cones. Are they the same diameter as the shaft or loose?

You do need to calibrate it to get proper results. Even moving it to a different spot might need recalibration. Usually you use a plain steel wheel for that, they used to say 14 or 15" but they might have changed that being less common size now.

Check youtube for your model there might be some videos for use and setting it up.

 

[djbmw]

Generally, steelies are mounted with the cone on the face side of the rim and your small plastic "washer" on the nut handle. Mag rims are the opposite, with the cone at the rear of the rim and your large cup-type attachment on the nut handle (careful not to mar up the rim).

The cone of choice should fit the bore well, not right at the edge of either size.

Ps... sometimes reversing the above is needed on odd-ball wheel assemblies.

Can you share a pic of how you're trying to mount it up?

 

[signcrafter]

It needs to be calibrated before you try to balance anything or you won't get good results.

Not sure about the cones but like posted above some pictures would help. I've had some wheels that I've had to try a few different ways before getting it to mount right. But you won't get accurate results until you calibrate it and figure out the mounting.

To calibrate mine I don't think you need an already balanced wheel. For mine you use a wheel and spin it and then put a 100 gram weight on where it tells you and spin it again and it's calibrated. Pretty sure the machine is just looking for the change the weight makes. But the wheel does have to be mounted on the machine correctly for it to work.

Do you have the manual for your machine?

 

[joecon]

Spring-cone-wheel-plastic cone-nut. The wheel rests against the flat part of the balancer.

 

[TractorTherapy]

It shouldn't be that hard to get a wheel on it straight. Find a cone that fits the hole the best like maybe half way into it or so, stick it on the shaft then the nut. Is the wheel on all the way? The back of the rim has to come in contact with the flat surface of the machines hub. I always spin the nut on then hold the machine's hub to stop that from turning and give the nut another push to make sure it's tight. Some wheels like real wire ones with a deep center it can work better put the wheel on then the cone.

If could be the aftermarket cones. Are they the same diameter as the shaft or loose?

You do need to calibrate it to get proper results. Even moving it to a different spot might need recalibration. Usually you use a plain steel wheel for that, they used to say 14 or 15" but they might have changed that being less common size now.

Check youtube for your model there might be some videos for use and setting it up.

Yeah, you were right, this was a "skill issue" as my kids would say...I changed the order to Hub, Spring, Wheel, Cone, Nut and it trued up correctly. I'm not getting consistent results from the machine, but the steel wheel is at least properly mounted.

Generally, steelies are mounted with the cone on the face side of the rim and your small plastic "washer" on the nut handle. Mag rims are the opposite, with the cone at the rear of the rim and your large cup-type attachment on the nut handle (careful not to mar up the rim).

The cone of choice should fit the bore well, not right at the edge of either size.

Ps... sometimes reversing the above is needed on odd-ball wheel assemblies.

Can you share a pic of how you're trying to mount it up?

That was the ticket for mounting. 2 of the cones fit this wheel...both were pretty close to the narrow end of the cone.

It needs to be calibrated before you try to balance anything or you won't get good results.

Not sure about the cones but like posted above some pictures would help. I've had some wheels that I've had to try a few different ways before getting it to mount right. But you won't get accurate results until you calibrate it and figure out the mounting.

To calibrate mine I don't think you need an already balanced wheel. For mine you use a wheel and spin it and then put a 100 gram weight on where it tells you and spin it again and it's calibrated. Pretty sure the machine is just looking for the change the weight makes. But the wheel does have to be mounted on the machine correctly for it to work.

Do you have the manual for your machine?

The calibration is the problem now. The manual doesn't specify whether it needs to be a balanced wheel or not, however, I tried the calibration with a new trailer wheel and tire (unbalanced) and it returned a message "out of balance by >1 oz. Balance wheel and recalibrate." I then balanced that wheel on the uncalibrated machine...if I re-spin it, it reads 0/0, but when I run the calibration procedure it wants the 4oz weight right where the weights are. I loosen and move the wheel on the shaft 90 degrees and try again. First off, it now says it is unbalanced by .5 to 1 oz...I tried to calibrate anyway and got "out of balance by >.5oz. Balance wheel for best results." I tried this over and over, removing all the weights, starting fresh, rotating the wheel 180 degrees. Once, I got it balanced, rotated on the shaft and 0/.25 after rotating. That calibration "worked", but the machine still doesn't provide repeatable balancing when the wheel is loosened and rotated on the shaft.

Spring-cone-wheel-plastic cone-nut. The wheel rests against the flat part of the balancer.

Yep, this was how I was setting it up, but I needed to go Spring, wheel, cone, nut for this steel wheel and that fixed the mounting issue I think.

I can't get repeatable results when I move the wheel on the hub/shaft. The results are so far off, that the calibration won't work. I think I need to get a wheel/tire and have it professionally balanced at the shop down the street, so I have a good baseline.
Also, the calibration weight is the MC type and the steel wheels I'm using us P type weights...I don't know how big a deal this is...it certainly doesn't fit as well as the P type weights do on the this steel wheel.

 

[djbmw]

Yeah, you were right, this was a "skill issue" as my kids would say...I changed the order to Hub, Spring, Wheel, Cone, Nut and it trued up correctly. I'm not getting consistent results from the machine, but the steel wheel is at least properly mounted.


That was the ticket for mounting. 2 of the cones fit this wheel...both were pretty close to the narrow end of the cone.


The calibration is the problem now. The manual doesn't specify whether it needs to be a balanced wheel or not, however, I tried the calibration with a new trailer wheel and tire (unbalanced) and it returned a message "out of balance by >1 oz. Balance wheel and recalibrate." I then balanced that wheel on the uncalibrated machine...if I re-spin it, it reads 0/0, but when I run the calibration procedure it wants the 4oz weight right where the weights are. I loosen and move the wheel on the shaft 90 degrees and try again. First off, it now says it is unbalanced by .5 to 1 oz...I tried to calibrate anyway and got "out of balance by >.5oz. Balance wheel for best results." I tried this over and over, removing all the weights, starting fresh, rotating the wheel 180 degrees. Once, I got it balanced, rotated on the shaft and 0/.25 after rotating. That calibration "worked", but the machine still doesn't provide repeatable balancing when the wheel is loosened and rotated on the shaft.


Yep, this was how I was setting it up, but I needed to go Spring, wheel, cone, nut for this steel wheel and that fixed the mounting issue I think.

I can't get repeatable results when I move the wheel on the hub/shaft. The results are so far off, that the calibration won't work. I think I need to get a wheel/tire and have it professionally balanced at the shop down the street, so I have a good baseline.
Also, the calibration weight is the MC type and the steel wheels I'm using us P type weights...I don't know how big a deal this is...it certainly doesn't fit as well as the P type weights do on the this steel wheel.

Usually there are 2 calibrations...
There's the "every week calibration" which is usually done by mounting a 15" to 16" steeling with a tire mounted and inflated (doesnt matter if its balanced or not), going into the standard calibration mode on the machine, spinning the tire, then add 100g weight and spin it again.

Then,... there's the Factory Calibration Reset... which is similar to above BUT it will ask for the weight to be applied on the rear of the rim,... then the face,... so that it gets even more accurate results.

 

[djbmw]

The user manual is here: https://coatscompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/1400_1500_1600-Wheel-Balancer-Manual.pdf

Your unit has "Machine Calibration" and "Arm Calibration" as different options. First, follow the steps for Machine Calibration. Once complete, then do Arm Calibration.

The wheel assembly that you use does NOT need to be balanced, but it DOES need a tire mounted that is correctly inflated.

 

[TractorTherapy]

The user manual is here: https://coatscompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/1400_1500_1600-Wheel-Balancer-Manual.pdf

Your unit has "Machine Calibration" and "Arm Calibration" as different options. First, follow the steps for Machine Calibration. Once complete, then do Arm Calibration.

The wheel assembly that you use does NOT need to be balanced, but it DOES need a tire mounted that is correctly inflated.

Yes. I have been following that manual's procedure although the menu prompts and key press labels don't exactly match up with the prompts on my machine...it could be because that manual covers several models.

I just tried a different new trailer wheel/tire and got much better results. I balanced it and then completed the calibration procedure. That wheel/tire took far less weight to initially balance. Now when I re-spin after loosening/turning it 90 degrees on the shaft, the most it shows for weight is .25/0. I'm not sure what tolerance is acceptable.
I wonder if I get a test wheel calibrated at a shop if it will tighten the calibration down to 0/0...not sure what my expectation should be.

 

[djbmw]

Yes. I have been following that manual's procedure although the menu prompts and key press labels don't exactly match up with the prompts on my machine...it could be because that manual covers several models.

I just tried a different new trailer wheel/tire and got much better results. I balanced it and then completed the calibration procedure. That wheel/tire took far less weight to initially balance. Now when I re-spin after loosening/turning it 90 degrees on the shaft, the most it shows for weight is .25/0. I'm not sure what tolerance is acceptable.
I wonder if I get a test wheel calibrated at a shop if it will tighten the calibration down to 0/0...not sure what my expectation should be.

Perfect! Thats properly calibrated.
1/4oz variance is more than acceptable - especially with an older machine/cones/rim hub bore that might not be true, etc.

 

[mikedodge]

I always do hub-spring-cone-wheel-nut no matter what type of wheel it is unless it has mounting problems then it's cone on the face side of the wheel. It makes things a lot easier if you don't have to take the cone off every time you put the next wheel on it.

Sounds like you got the calibration figured out. Coats usually only has one the calibration type you can do yourself with moving the weight from the outside across to the inside. If you miss a step or don't move the weight across to the same spot it can give some strange results or never balance if it's really off.

 

[djbmw]

I always do hub-spring-cone-wheel-nut no matter what type of wheel it is unless it has mounting problems then it's cone on the face side of the wheel. It makes things a lot easier if you don't have to take the cone off every time you put the next wheel on it.

Sounds like you got the calibration figured out. Coats usually only has one the calibration type you can do yourself with moving the weight from the outside across to the inside. If you miss a step or don't move the weight across to the same spot it can give some strange results or never balance if it's really off.

Do you have both types of nuts/cups though?
The pressure cup is intended for applying pressure to the rim face, when the cone is mounted from the back side.

The quick ring is meant to snug up on the cone when the cone is installed into the face of the rim.

They each have their place.

 

[mikedodge]

Do you have both types of nuts/cups though?
The pressure cup is intended for applying pressure to the rim face, when the cone is mounted from the back side.

The quick ring is meant to snug up on the cone when the cone is installed into the face of the rim.

They each have their place.

I only have the normal nut that you take the cup off to use the cone from the front.

Using the cone from the face side makes one extra step of having to install and remove it every time you put a wheel on, then you also have to lift the wheel to get the cone started into the center hole. It's meant to stay on the machine and used from the back side unless there's a mounting problem like the OP was going through.