Combination pliers (or …?) for pulling jobs

[Samuel D]

Although I live in Europe, I somehow don’t own combination pliers.

Every time I have to pull something with my Facom or Channellock water pump type pliers, I ask myself, “Why do you torture yourself like this? Get a pair of beefy pliers with jaws aligned with the handles so you don’t twist your wrist off trying not to bend the work while yanking!”

But then the job is done, and I forget about the problem until the next time I have to pull a cable or nail or sheet of metal or whatever.

Enough already.

I need a pair of fairly large pliers with straight jaws, not rotated 45° from the handles like my Facom 180.CPE:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/1746/4D0jtk.jpg

You see the problem? To pull in line with the jaws (e.g. to pull a cable without kinking it), I have to pull in the top-right direction of this picture. But since the handles aren’t in line with that, the pliers are trying to twist anticlockwise as I pull. So while I’m pulling, I also have to resist rotation of the handles. It’s all needlessly hard work (and limits my max pulling power).

I am surprised I don’t hear more people complain about this, especially in America with all those Channellocks. Have you all got wrists like pint glasses?

But never mind you. What should I get?

I’m looking at three options:

1. Regular combination pliers like the Knipex 03 01 250 (though the smaller 200 mm model might be more useful, because the handles are more curved and that might help the hand(s) not slip off the ends of the handles when pulling hard?)
2. High-leverage combination pliers like the Knipex 02 01 225 (obviously the leverage comes at the expense of jaw opening, so maybe these would ultimately be less useful – open to your opinions on that)
3. American-style lineman’s pliers like the Knipex 09 01 240 (although I’m guessing the combination pliers might be useful for more jobs, and not just pipes and bolts – but you tell me!)

Open to other brands, but Knipex prices are hard to beat, as discussed in a recent thread here.

 

[sparky 1971]

I have the Knipex high leverage combination as well as several pair of linesman pliers and will choose the linesman every time. Other than to maybe move them out of the way when looking for something else I don't know that I've touched the combo's in the last five years. I tried to like them, I just can't.

 

[RTM]

Linesman, Bernard parallel jaw, or a big @$$ pair of slip joints 10” long, depending on what I’m pulling. Most linesman pliers have a gap in the jaws the width of a fish tape, they don’t go to zero. The Bernard’s go to zero, won’t get the major grunt work. My 10” slip joint pliers have a large grip, better tug than linesman pliers. Note the handle flare

Shown here Pexto 17N Heavy Combination Slip Joint pliers compared to Diamond regular slip joint pliers

 

[oldschoolcraft]

9.5" 20oz linesman pliers are my favorite tool. Of all of the tools. Pull stuff, cut stuff, crimp stuff, hammer stuff.

 

[rlitman]

I do everything I can to avoid pulling with pliers. What happens when you're pulling a staple and it let's loose? You end up with a staple in your face and pliers going through your teeth. I have wide headed pliers that allow me to grab and roll, to lever the staple out.

 

[dscheidt]

I try not to pull with pliers, if it's going to require force. Something like a nail is better grabbed with dykes, and pried out. If I have to pull straight in line, my first choice is the snap 612aep pliers (which have a pistol grip shape). then whatever is handy, which often ends up being a pair linesman pliers. or a vice grips of some flavor. they have the advantage of not requiring constant squeezing while pulling, and reduce the risk of getting a face full of pliers.

Also, for some pulling jobs, you can turn around relative to the work, and make it a pushing job, which is easier to use pump pliers on .

 

[Junkdrawer Dog]

No one seems to care much for them these days but I'll vote for the 10" slip joints (from a quality manufacturer such as Wilde). I carried a pair at work for years as my personal no touch tool, hammer, and grabber of random things.

 

[sparky 1971]

I do everything I can to avoid pulling with pliers. What happens when you're pulling a staple and it let's loose? You end up with a staple in your face and pliers going through your teeth. I have wide headed pliers that allow me to grab and roll, to lever the staple out.

I use angle head dykes on the rare occasion that I am pretending to be a romex jockey for the sole purpose of pulling staples.

 

[nh_yota]

Some models of lineman pliers have a notch for clamping and pulling fish tape.

 

[PBCampbell]

You may want to do searches for "Rebar pliers", "Fencing pliers", and " Nail pulling pliers" as well before making a final choice.

 

[RTM]

What happens when you're pulling a staple and it let's loose

Wait, when did we switch to staples, I only saw cable in the original post.

For staples and nails, completely different tool set than cable type things. Diagonal cutters, end cutters, both preferentially dull, backed up with a cats paw when you can’t regrip the staple.

 

[sparky 1971]

Wait, when did we switch to staples, I only saw cable in the original post.

The end of the third paragraph states "cable or nail or sheet of metal or whatever". I'd put staples under the whatever category.

 

[neophyte]

The difference between “regular” combination pliers, and “high leverage” combination pliers, is usually just were the rivet joint is located, and maybe the size of the rivet.
The regular version might offer a bit if a wider jaw opening than the high leverage version, but otherwise the pliers are usually the same basic design.
Maun parallel jaw pliers are great for pulling stuff, but the pliers are expensive compared to other options, and usually not suited to fine cutting.

Fencing Pliers: High-Leverage Tool for Fence Repairs - Maun

Discover Maun's high-leverage fencing pliers for gripping, bending and cutting tough fencing wires. British made. Upgrade your fence pliers today.

www.maunindustries.com

Also, I’m not sure that there are really other European made versions of the Maun design.
The pliers, at least in the 6-1/2 inch size are a Nato standard, but I’ve only ever actually come across French surplus versions, and maybe seen a pic of some German ones.
The Knipex Twingrip would be good for straight pulling, as long as whatever is being pilled is large enough to fit in the screw jaw grooves at the end.
Rebar pliers might be another option, since the pliers are made for pulling and twisting the wire used for tying rebar.

 

[woody 73]

I like these op.

350S 9-inch Ironworker's Pliers - Channellock, Inc.

CHANNELLOCK® Ironworkers Linemen's Pliers make light work of twisting wire by adding more leverage with a dog leg handle design and heavy duty coiled spring.

channellock.com

 

[Dave455]

You could do a lot worse than go for the regular Knipex.

Although the "02" Knipex combination pliers are sometimes designated "high leverage" they are actually very similar in proportion to the "03".


Where you notice a difference is that the "02" series have harder cutting jaws so are rated for harder wire. I have the "02" in my "property maintenance" box and notice no downside. The teeth may be harder too.

What does affect the jaw opening, given the same size hand, is the length of the pliers. The tools you are considering are very long for combination pliers. I commonly use 180mm as they fit my hand about right. You could go up a size for a dedicated cable tool, but I wouldn't go longer without trying them.

If you are choosing a tool specifically for electrical cable, then the Linemans Pliers are that tool. However I know pro electricians who don't own a pair, and use regular combination.

Whatever you choose, get a pair of combinations anyway. They're too useful not to own.

 

[Dave455]

By the way, I have a fair number of Maun tools, both pliers and cutters, and find them incredibly useful. If you want gripping strength, these are the tools.

The gripping strength arises, not just from the compound leverage, but slso because any wire etc is gripped evenly along it's full length.

I predominately use mine for mechanical rather than electrical work though.

 

[RTM]

The end of the third paragraph states "cable or nail or sheet of metal or whatever". I'd put staples under the whatever category.

Damn, I hate it when I skim over important details, then make a fool of myself asking what I missed.

 

[rlitman]

Although the "02" Knipex combination pliers are sometimes designated "high leverage" they are actually very similar in proportion to the "03".

Look closely at the distance from the bottom of the cutter to the center of rotation. The 02 could be nearly half the 03, and that's a HUGE difference, because now one unit of squeeze on the handles produces twice as much crush.

Assuming the 180 is the length, at 100% zoom, these pliers show up as 180mm wide on my monitor. Lucky coincidence...
I measure 7mm from bottom of the cutter to the pivot on the 02, and 12mm on the 03. That's 171% more cutting power for the 02.
Jaw tip to pivot, I get 38mm and 48mm respectively, so you've got 126% the bite on things with the 02.

The pliers I own with the most pinch power at the tips of the jaws (and my go-to pliers for pulling things I can't get with a cat's paw) are Kraeuter barbed wire cutters based on the M1910 pattern. They've got really short and chunky jaws that are rounded just right at the tips for grab and roll. But I don't know anyone making this currently. The best I'm aware of today are these from Crescent:

 

[Samuel D]

My 10” slip joint pliers have a large grip, better tug than linesman pliers. Note the handle flare

Now we’re talking. That kind of flare would allow a tug of war.

 

[Samuel D]

9.5" 20oz linesman pliers are my favorite tool. Of all of the tools. Pull stuff, cut stuff, crimp stuff, hammer stuff.

“20 oz” pliers, ha ha! I try not to hammer much, but it’s human nature to tap things with the pliers you have in your hand occasionally.

 

[Samuel D]

I do everything I can to avoid pulling with pliers. What happens when you're pulling a staple and it let's loose? You end up with a staple in your face and pliers going through your teeth. I have wide headed pliers that allow me to grab and roll, to lever the staple out.

I try not to pull with pliers, if it's going to require force. Something like a nail is better grabbed with dykes, and pried out. If I have to pull straight in line, my first choice is the snap 612aep pliers (which have a pistol grip shape). then whatever is handy, which often ends up being a pair linesman pliers. or a vice grips of some flavor. they have the advantage of not requiring constant squeezing while pulling, and reduce the risk of getting a face full of pliers.

Also, for some pulling jobs, you can turn around relative to the work, and make it a pushing job, which is easier to use pump pliers on .

Thanks for the safety warning, gents. I still find there are times I need to pull with pliers. Combination pliers would allow me to do this more safely than struggling not to kink the work with the rotated jaws on my Channellock 420 pliers, say.

 

[Samuel D]

The Knipex Twingrip would be good for straight pulling, as long as whatever is being pilled is large enough to fit in the screw jaw grooves at the end.

… which it often isn’t. I actually have the TwinGrip pliers. I do sometimes find them useful, but there’s something about them that feels fussy and fiddly more often than not.

Part of it is that the gripping surfaces of the flat part of the jaws (near the tips) are actually very small, what with the deep and wide lengthwise groove, the smaller crosswise groove, and the teeth everywhere else. Things that don’t fit the slightly gimmicky design features tend to require great care in positioning or they slip out.

Then there’s the slip-joint design with button adjustment, and I just don’t find I tend to grab them for quick use. Could be me, though. You use what you’re used to, and I’m not very used to the TwinGrip.

 

[Samuel D]

Although the "02" Knipex combination pliers are sometimes designated "high leverage" they are actually very similar in proportion to the "03".

They’re clearly similar in overall proportions, but the pivot-to-cutting-jaws distance is different, as rlitman noted. Less of a difference to the jaw tips (still a bit different).

Where you notice a difference is that the "02" series have harder cutting jaws so are rated for harder wire. I have the "02" in my "property maintenance" box and notice no downside. The teeth may be harder too.

Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out.

What does affect the jaw opening, given the same size hand, is the length of the pliers. The tools you are considering are very long for combination pliers. I commonly use 180mm as they fit my hand about right. You could go up a size for a dedicated cable tool, but I wouldn't go longer without trying them.

I see. Maybe I could combine the regular (non-high-leverage) version with a slightly longer size, the regular leverage allowing greater jaw opening width for a given hand grip size.

I think I want something fairly hefty. Even though I don’t work on especially heavy stuff, I more often wish my pliers were bigger than smaller (except when carrying them around, of course).

Whatever you choose, get a pair of combinations anyway. They're too useful not to own.

You’re not the first person to sell them like that. A friend of mine could hardly believe I didn’t have combination pliers when he was around to work on something.

 

[KnurledNut]

@Samuel D
Snap-on HL138ACP

 

[Hohn]

Although I live in Europe, I somehow don’t own combination pliers.

Every time I have to pull something with my Facom or Channellock water pump type pliers, I ask myself, “Why do you torture yourself like this? Get a pair of beefy pliers with jaws aligned with the handles so you don’t twist your wrist off trying not to bend the work while yanking!”

But then the job is done, and I forget about the problem until the next time I have to pull a cable or nail or sheet of metal or whatever.

Enough already.

I need a pair of fairly large pliers with straight jaws, not rotated 45° from the handles like my Facom 180.CPE:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/1746/4D0jtk.jpg

You see the problem? To pull in line with the jaws (e.g. to pull a cable without kinking it), I have to pull in the top-right direction of this picture. But since the handles aren’t in line with that, the pliers are trying to twist anticlockwise as I pull. So while I’m pulling, I also have to resist rotation of the handles. It’s all needlessly hard work (and limits my max pulling power).

I am surprised I don’t hear more people complain about this, especially in America with all those Channellocks. Have you all got wrists like pint glasses?

But never mind you. What should I get?

I’m looking at three options:

1. Regular combination pliers like the Knipex 03 01 250 (though the smaller 200 mm model might be more useful, because the handles are more curved and that might help the hand(s) not slip off the ends of the handles when pulling hard?)
2. High-leverage combination pliers like the Knipex 02 01 225 (obviously the leverage comes at the expense of jaw opening, so maybe these would ultimately be less useful – open to your opinions on that)
3. American-style lineman’s pliers like the Knipex 09 01 240 (although I’m guessing the combination pliers might be useful for more jobs, and not just pipes and bolts – but you tell me!)

Open to other brands, but Knipex prices are hard to beat, as discussed in a recent thread here.

I'm really enjoying these Doyles from the Hazard Fraught:

Similar jaws to a Linesman but slimmer and they close all the way. Surely this design is copied by HF from a more reputable brand?

 

[oldschoolcraft]

“20 oz” pliers, ha ha! I try not to hammer much, but it’s human nature to tap things with the pliers you have in your hand occasionally.

When you have 20oz Linesman's pliers in your hand, you'll go around looking for things to hammer.

 

[Dave455]

Look closely at the distance from the bottom of the cutter to the center of rotation. The 02 could be nearly half the 03, and that's a HUGE difference, because now one unit of squeeze on the handles produces twice as much crush.

Assuming the 180 is the length, at 100% zoom, these pliers show up as 180mm wide on my monitor. Lucky coincidence...
I measure 7mm from bottom of the cutter to the pivot on the 02, and 12mm on the 03. That's 171% more cutting power for the 02.
Jaw tip to pivot, I get 38mm and 48mm respectively, so you've got 126% the bite on things with the 02.

The pliers I own with the most pinch power at the tips of the jaws (and my go-to pliers for pulling things I can't get with a cat's paw) are Kraeuter barbed wire cutters based on the M1910 pattern. They've got really short and chunky jaws that are rounded just right at the tips for grab and roll. But I don't know anyone making this currently. The best I'm aware of today are these from Crescent:

Oh yes, I totally get that. If anybody wants the details, on the 180mm pliers, the bottom of the cutting edge to the pivot measures 12mm on the regular pliers, 8mm on the high leverage.

It's just that in practical terms, it doesn't seem to make a huge difference.

Maybe if you were cutting something like piano wire you'd notice it, but most of the time I'm using these on copper wire or locking wire, and it doesn't seem to. I have cutters around anyway.

They’re clearly similar in overall proportions, but the pivot-to-cutting-jaws distance is different, as rlitman noted. Less of a difference to the jaw tips (still a bit different).


Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out.


I see. Maybe I could combine the regular (non-high-leverage) version with a slightly longer size, the regular leverage allowing greater jaw opening width for a given hand grip size.

I think I want something fairly hefty. Even though I don’t work on especially heavy stuff, I more often wish my pliers were bigger than smaller (except when carrying them around, of course).


You’re not the first person to sell them like that. A friend of mine could hardly believe I didn’t have combination pliers when he was around to work on something.

Generally speaking, the high leverage are the better tool. And the price difference isn't that great. For a given size though, the high leverage do feel slightly smaller, due to the very slightly different proportions

I use combination pliers all the time. Usually one of the first few tools I reach for on any job, and if I'm grabbing a couple of tools for "contingencies" they are usually my bit driver and a pair of combination pliers.

The only thing I find is that I'm totally conditioned to using them. If I pick up a pair of lineman's pliers, I always seem to end up trying to grab something round with the cutter!

If you are going to use Knipex Combination pliers for cable pulling, it might be worth considering the comfort grips. I don't normally like these, but they are better for pulling on.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

If you are going to use Knipex Combination pliers for cable pulling, it might be worth considering the comfort grips. I don't normally like these, but they are better for pulling on.

And if you're going to get comfort grips, and that particular models offers VDE electrical insulated, then I suggest going VDE. It's about the same size, weight, cushion as comfort grip but it's electrically insulated. More so than the comfort grips, which also are insulated to some extent, just not rated. Also I like the VDE colors better than Comfort grip

 

[Dave455]

A couple more comparison pics, if they help. Sadly, I don't have both with the same finish and similar grips.

The regular ones ride around in one of my vehicles, and don't see much use.

The high leverage I use for property maintenance so see a variety of tasks. Some cable work, pulling small nails and staples etc. They have worn well.


Here are both at max opening.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Some models of lineman pliers have a notch for clamping and pulling fish tape.

This is the answer. Everyone is talking about staples, but if the OP wants to pull cable, these are the ones to do it. Generally I push cable, with fiberglass rods, but Klein J2000-9NECRTP pliers are perfect for grabbing metal fish-tape, and cutting/bending ceiling grid suspension wire, which can slash your arms.

​

For removing staples, you could use a pair of curved diagonal cutters. Work them (closed) under the staple and push down on the handles, which will pull the staple. The Crescent pliers with the round rolling feature posted above may also work, but I haven't tried them.

 

[Wamsutta]

Knipex 02 02 200