Combination screws need to die.

[hautpot]

Why are these types of machine screws so relevant? It is used on so many different types of common machines, and in some cases critical torque fastening applications. The primary drive is always slotted, then followed by a headache inducing combination of Phillips, Pozidriv, square, or hex. I believe the convenience factor of being able to use two different drivers is far surpassed by the inconvenience of removing these screws when stripped.

Is there anyone on the forum that prefers these to the normal screws?

Common screw

Klein C115

PB Swiss Pozidriv/slotted

Wiha Inkra

 

[wvrailroader]

I absolutely despise those things. They generally seem to be made from cardboard, paste and just enough metal to give them a silver coloration. Every one I have ever dealt with seemed to strip out instantly.

 

[ovrrdrive]

Just never try to use the phillips and you'll be fine...

And yes, I hate them too.

 

[WhiskeyRanger]

They're about as terrible as slotted.

 

[Jawn]

They're about as terrible as slotted.

No, a proper slotted screw is great... those combination turds might as well be made of warm butter.

 

[DSLTRK]

Why are these types of machine screws so relevant? It is used on so many different types of common machines, and in some cases critical torque fastening applications. The primary drive is always slotted, then followed by a headache inducing combination of Phillips, Pozidriv, square, or hex. I believe the convenience factor of being able to use two different drivers is far surpassed by the inconvenience of removing these screws when stripped.

Is there anyone on the forum that prefers these to the normal screws?

If you use a Robertson screwdriver, it grips those screws hard, and usually without fail. These screws are extremely common with electrical (building) work.

The screws that I hate are slotted screws.

 

[wiens80]

Agreed terrible. My least favorite place to find them is on circuit breakers, 1) I need to get this connection tight 2) I really really don't want to strip it out, especially when it's bolt in breakers.

 

[DSLTRK]

Agreed terrible. My least favorite place to find them is on circuit breakers, 1) I need to get this connection tight 2) I really really don't want to strip it out, especially when it's bolt in breakers.

Breakers, especially SquareD Homeline, are usually slotted/robertson only. I lost count how many people used a phillips and stripped out the lug..

 

[Professur]

If you use a Robertson screwdriver, it grips those screws hard, and usually without fail. These screws are extremely common with electrical (building) work.

The screws that I hate are slotted screws.

Biggest problem most people have is using a Square screwdriver bit in a Robertson. Robertson's have a taper that the squares don't.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

A lot of different screw heads over the years have been developed primarily to make the assembly process, where they use dedicated power heads attached to robots, go faster and more reliably. That "combo" design is going to tend to locate the driver exactly where it needs to go...AND give an edge for the "flat" part of the driver to bite into for easier torque application.

They aren't really as worried about the guy who has to take it apart later. Also...I'd point out that cheap screws come in all flavors. I've had MANY phillips screws packaged with household goods over the years that I had to replace in order to put up the shelf or vinyl shutter or whatever, because they were Grade 2 or worse.

On the pro vs con on slotted screws...If you think about taking out a slotted screw with a standard flat bladed screw driver...there is no problem whatsoever. If you think about taking one out with a drill/driver with a flat bladed tip...they are a complete PIA because it's hard to keep the bit centered in the slot. That's the perfect example of what I'm talking about with automated assembly. A robot would **** at driving a slotted screw...or at least it would be much harder to design and build one to drive them reliably.

Phil

 

[Zeke]

My experience is that the screw pictured in post #1 is not how a breaker lug works. I use a square drive on newer breakers and pretty much a phillips on the other. the thing is, the phillips must be the right size and new, not worn. For torquing I use a flat screw driver.

Recently I went looking for the bits pictured for screws that you will find on devices like switches, etc. HD didn't seem to have any but I should have looked more closely in the elec tool cabinet.

 

[mjoekingz28]

I like the screws that have the screwdriver ability (flat or phillips) then have a spot for a socket (8mm maybe) . I take it to mean you either get it as tight as you can with a screwdriver and use the socket to remove OR snug it down with a screwdriver then barely snug it with a socket.

 

[stevenhs]

I will take square screw over torx anyday now

 

[rlitman]

The screws that I hate are slotted screws.

I think that if you had quality hollow ground slotted screwdrivers, you would not hate them so much.

Breakers, especially SquareD Homeline, are usually slotted/robertson only. I lost count how many people used a phillips and stripped out the lug..

I've been dealing with equipment that uses Pozi-slotted (made in Europe), and had to buy a Pozi screwdriver for the job, because the Philips was making a mess of things.

I will take square screw over torx anyday now

And I feel the exact opposite. Square is so much more likely to cam out.

 

[Provincial]

I discovered that Ikea uses Posi screws and bought a set of bits. It made the installation of several cabinet sets much easier. I had been trying to use Phillips bits, and stripping out the heads.

By reading posts here on GJ, I found out that Japanese "Phillips" bits don't come to a sharp point like real Phillips bits. Now I grind the tip off my Phillips bits and they work on both American and Oriental screws. I don't believe that I am sacrificing any torque capacity, as the part removed is at the center of the screw, and can't contribute much torque. Another advantage is a little dirt in the bottom of the recess no longer keeps the driver from fully engaging the driving slots.

 

[rlitman]

Yes, IKEA is pozi.

A blunted Philips fits in a JIS screw better than a regular Philips, but a real JIS is much better.

 

[kv501]

If you use a Robertson screwdriver, it grips those screws hard, and usually without fail. These screws are extremely common with electrical (building) work.

The screws that I hate are slotted screws.

Biggest problem most people have is using a Square screwdriver bit in a Robertson. Robertson's have a taper that the squares don't.

I'll take Black Velvet and the Trailer Park Boys, but you can keep Justin Bieber, hockey, and those goofy screws, eh?

 

[carbon]

Funny, I just posted http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314019 on all types of screws.

 

[Wamsutta]

The funny thing is, when they came out with a special bit to fit the combination screw, the combination screw was no longer a combination screw. It became a new special breed unto itself.

 

[bandaidmd]

If you use a Robertson screwdriver, it grips those screws hard, and usually without fail. These screws are extremely common with electrical (building) work.

The screws that I hate are slotted screws.

robertson is a new term to me ,is this the original name for a square drive type or something different? When you google it it shows what looks to be a normal square drive.
Thinking this may just be a case of a generic term such as formica is for all laminate countertops and lexan is for all polycarbonates

 

[kv501]

robertson is a new term to me ,is this the original name for a square drive type or something different? When you google it it shows what looks to be a normal square drive.
Thinking this may just be a case of a generic term such as formica is for all laminate countertops and lexan is for all polycarbonates

It is, but watch out for **** hurt Canucks when you use the terms square and Robertson interchangeably. They get super offended because some of the drivers have a slight taper.

The reason it was never adopted anywhere outside of Canada is because it *****. If they didn't ****, they would have caught on.

I sheet rocked a garage with a guy who insisted on using "Robertson" sheet rock screws and it was horrible. He even paid an arm and a leg for them by the box instead of by the pound.

 

[Sine Swept]

As a Canadian, I stand before you to let you know the real reason Roberston never caught on. Robertson wasn't willing to license his great product to anyone. Phillips (an American) would sell to anyone and even though his cam out garbage screw was garbage, it became the mainstay in most modern products.

Try using a Roberston while doing some woodworking. Phillips is ****!

 

[Gmonkee]

Why not just use a good fitting driver to whatever screws you are working with?

All this whining would end pretty quick.

 

[redwrench60]

I hate combination screws much less since I bought a pair of Klein combination screwdrivers at Home Depot. They really work very well on receptical, panel, conduit and lug screws. They fit tighter than a new girlfriend and flat out work.

 

[dirtydogintex]

iirc the working end of a genuine Robertson driver consists of a tapered square tip joined to a separate shaft.... not a one piece affair

 

[Lassen Forge]

The one I can't stand is whatever those Chinese wood screw makers put in place of about 1/3 of the screws in a box... you're going along, and here comes this semi-phillips, semi-robertson, semi square screw head that is not only GUARANTEED to wallow out, it ruins the #2 bit you're using.

I went through a box of deck screws (long, boring process!) and pulled out these manufactured defects (probably closer to half the box)... and didn't ruin another #2 bit from that box. Now I check them before I use them (another f***ing waste of time) and throw out the ones that are fubar. Again, it's like I get 2/3 of a box, but my driver bits went from being POS's to relatively durable.

THAT'S what I miss about made in the USA. NEVER used to have issues like this. People think the "Oriental imported" stuff is cheaper, but when you only use the usable stuff (which is usually barely that) it's more expensive.

 

[tremek]

The Robertson Screwdriver: Where did it come from?
After he was injured using a conventional flathead screwdriver, frustrated tool salesman Peter Robertson took matters in his own hands. Learn more about his Stuff of Genius in this episode.

 

[justanengineer]

I dont see what the big deal is. Combination screws exist for mass assembly, when assembled horizontally they help the driver bit grip the screw a bit better. Most folks otherwise would never get the real benefit of that extra 10% of screw-bit retension, but the guy trying to poke 10k of them in the appropriate holes sure does, it prevents him from dropping ** screws/shift. Realistically, for most folks theres no need for special drivers, I use a standard Robertson bit when working on electrical enclosures where these are popular. As mentioned, just be sure you dont use a Phillips bc that will NOT work too well.

 

[Ign]

Robertson does not ****, it's a million times better than Phillips. I use Robertson only, won't touch Phillips in my shop.

I buy the combination Robertson (square) and Phillips at any local hardware store ONLY because they're easier to find than dedicated square. I ONLY use the square and the screws seem fine. IOW square does not seem to suffer from adding Phillips, but I imagine the Phillips suffers from the big square hole in the center.

The only thing that makes Phillips tolerable is the advent of impact drivers. With the constant twisting force of drills they were doomed to click, click, WHIRRR!!!! (Stripped!)