Comparing 3" vises

[Outlawmws]

I have a decent selection of different levels of 3" vises, and thought this would be a good way to show the differences between the homeowner/mechanic level vise and higher end machinist's vises. (The question comes up often enough)

The candidates for this were:

Columbian No. 63 Red Arrow - 10 lbs (Swivel base)

Columbian No C43 - 13.5 lbs (Swivel base)

Woden (England) 186-b/1 - 14 lbs (Fixed base)

Rock Island No, 571 - 29 Lbs (Swivel base), 23 lbs (W/O the Swivel base)


The real noticeable differences are in weight, but the visible differences are also very noticeable when placed side by side.

The small difference in weight is very noticeable from the No. 63 and the C43 Columbians, only 3.5 lbs, but that is also 35% more steel available:

I would rate these as light duty and med/light duty, suitable for mounting on a roller tool box or work station but should only be used for light stuff on a bench. (The No 63 is the "Zombie Vise" I documented the repair of in the Vises thread. It had been broken, brazed, then broken again, before being left to rust in a shed...)

The Machinist vises I would rate as medium and medium heavy duty vises; to get into the heavy duty class I think you need a minimum of a 4" machinist, and better if it is even bigger for real heavy work. (If you want to be pounding on it to say, bend metal, get a blacksmith post vise...) But I think either of these would do the average Joe life long bench service if not abused past their considerable capacity.

I would have liked to have done this at 4" or even 4-1/2" jaw widths, but I don't have that wide a selection of that size of vises, but I think this 3" selection is still very illustrative.

 

[demographic]

We don't see that many Woden vices over here in England where they were made so I imagine its quite a rarity over your side of the pond.
Here's some information about their vice range from the 1964 Buck & Hickman catalogue.

I have a Woden quick release woodwork vice and a Woden number 4 smoothing plane. Nice enough kit.

 

[Outlawmws]

thanks for posting the catalog page! I added the model No. to the OP (186-b/1)

 

[EOC_Jason]

Haha.. "unbreakable"... I think people today would take that as a challenge!

 

[BHH]

Where the Wilton's at!

 

[demographic]

Haha.. "unbreakable"... I think people today would take that as a challenge!

English vices with the "Unbreakable" tag are usually made from cast steel instead of cast iron.
I have a couple, a Fortis and an Ajax cast steel vices with the quick release mechanisms.
I should get to it and get them cleaned up and restored really.

 

[Outlawmws]

Haha.. "unbreakable"... I think people today would take that as a challenge!

I noticed that also, but if you look they START as a 4-1/2" jaw and go up from there...

 

[Outlawmws]

Where the Wilton's at!

You know, it's funny, I had a cheapie Wilton (looked like the import type) that had a hinge mount that let it flop over on its side, or be "locked" (Not very well) at an angle. I had it on a potable pedestal, as a welding vise for many years, after I assembled the welding bench out of a craftsman 3 drawer roller, I gave it to a friend for his son who was in school to become a welder.

So not a single Wilton in the shop; Parkers, a Paramo, a Morgan, Reeds, the Rock Island and the Woden, and while not a machinist vise, a medium sized Blacksmith's Post vise.

Maybe someday I'll come across a decent Wilton. I'd really like to find a Baby bullet, I have plenty of big vises... (Pun intended )

 

[Freeborn John]

Haha.. "unbreakable"... I think people today would take that as a challenge!

Hmm. Study the sliding jaw on the Woden. Breaking that thing just doesn't seem practical this side of a hernia...

 

[Catalyze]

Columbian had a similar motto in their older catalogs. Theirs stated that you could hit it with a sledge hammer all day and not break it. Their idea being that it would flex enough to keep it from shattering. Thanks for the posting Outlawmws!
Craig

 

[EOC_Jason]

I've got to find me a good OLD vise... I guess I should add Woden to the list of searches!

 

[Outlawmws]

I've got to find me a good OLD vise... I guess I should add Woden to the list of searches!

Woden & Paramo are basically clones of the Record vises, all made in England, but they do surface here also so any of those...

 

[demographic]

Woden & Paramo are basically clones or the Record vises, all made in England, but they do surface here also so any of those...

Woden and Record were made different by members of the same family but eventually Record bought Woden out then continued to use the name for a while.

If I remember right from what I read the company that produced Woden vices (think the family were called Hampton) came first then some members of the family went off and "borrowed" some designs and started Record.

Not totally sure but from that I suspect its more that Record is more of a Woden copy.
A little like Wilton getting "artistic inspiration" from York vices

Woden was the toolworks where the Hamptons made their stuff and also the brand name.

Edit, just had a quick Google and found THIS which explains how they split up but Woden came before Record and was making vices. Admittedly it doesn't show what those vices were like.

 

[Outlawmws]

Wasn't there also a "diversification" of manufacturing during WWII and the battle of Britain? Maybe that was when Paramo was started so the lose of one plant didn't' kill off the vise manufacturing for England. Seems I recall reading where the British Gov had a hand in at least encouraging that.

You know it's funny, I have the Woden and a larger Paramo, but most guys seem to find the Record vises over here, and I don't have one of those...

 

[demographic]

Wasn't there also a "diversification" of manufacturing during WWII and the battle of Britain? Maybe that was when Paramo was started so the lose of one plant didn't' kill off the vise manufacturing for England. Seems I recall reading where the British Gov had a hand in at least encouraging that.

You know it's funny, I have the Woden and a larger Paramo, but most guys seem to find the Record vises over here, and I don't have one of those...

Yeah I think that when the war was on they allowed a few other foundries to make copies, I don't know much about Paramo yet and weirdly enough I don't see them very often over here either.

 

[ajchien]

You know, there are a few different things that never get talked about when considering vises.

One thing is the beefiness and size of the jaws themselves. Of jaw widths the same, some jaws are twice or more as thick as others. I presume that this could be accounted for if you took weight into the "desirability" of a vise.

Another thing is the profile height of a vise. The 3.5" Wilton bullet I have sits with a low working height. I can get over the top of the vise a easier than a few other I have. It simply takes up less real estate and can be worked around easier.

The shape of the top of the jaws also mades a difference in how it's used. Ive got a Craftsman columbian clone, and when the jaws are together, it's pretty flat on top, making it amenable to some hammering - while the Parker vise is angled.

Lastly, I do prefer rectangular slide vises with covered screws the most. Sometimes, its just nice to have a flat surface to rest things on.

 

[Outlawmws]

You know, there are a few different things that never get talked about when considering vises.

One thing is the beefiness and size of the jaws themselves. Of jaw widths the same, some jaws are twice or more as thick as others. I presume that this could be accounted for if you took weight into the "desirability" of a vise.

Another thing is the profile height of a vise. The 3.5" Wilton bullet I have sits with a low working height. I can get over the top of the vise a easier than a few other I have. It simply takes up less real estate and can be worked around easier.

The shape of the top of the jaws also mades a difference in how it's used. Ive got a Craftsman columbian clone, and when the jaws are together, it's pretty flat on top, making it amenable to some hammering - while the Parker vise is angled.

Lastly, I do prefer rectangular slide vises with covered screws the most. Sometimes, its just nice to have a flat surface to rest things on.

All true and worthy of consideration; a look at some of the patternmaker/sheetmetal vises, and gunsmith vises just to name two, shows how use affects vise design/construction.

I noticed the Wodem has a Wilton bullet-like profile for height, if not shape. even if you added a swivel base, unless you got crazy with it, it would be very low profile.

Also, as was noted, the design of the jaw to slide interface gives the Woden vise great strength in that area. To stress risers in the design, and a lot of beef up to near where the slide enter the static base.

Compare that to the tow smaller vises and the pressed interface between the slide and the Jaw proper. which is exactly where the smallest Columbian I repaired failed, twice!


I got a chuckle out your last comment; I have a bad habit of setting aerosol cans on the back of the slide on my primary Parker vise, and then forgetting about them when I'm flipping the jaw open wide, until the can goes clattering...