Compressor acting funny. First day using it. Is this normal?

[GoodEnough]

Low voltage making compressor act weird?

This was my first day using my CAT-6310. Seemed to work ok to get a few bolts removed. I was initially very happy.

1) When I returned after dinner and tried to remove another bolt, the gun did not have enough power. Bolt would not turn. So, I was waiting for it to refill itself once the impact wrench used up the air. I walked over to it and noticed a faint wisp of electrical smoke coming from the air filter vents. The motor was also pretty hot, considering it had not refilled the tank in some time.

The PSI was under 60 at this point, yet it was not pumping. So, I then drained all the air from the tank, and flipped the power to on, and it did nothing. Shouldn't it immediately start pumping? I think I flipped it on and off a few times. Eventually, it started pumping. Is this normal?

2) I have a bright DeWalt work lamp plugged into the same socket. 2 hot bulbs. I notice the light will sporadically go dim. Then it will suddenly become very bright. During this time, the CAT has not begun refilling. Does it vary its power draw even when just sitting there, not pumping? Is the CAT causing this?

3) Also, the CAT will sometimes “sneeze” or “cough” It sounds like it’s starting back up, but just does a “hiccup” instead. It’s like a false start when its about to refill?? Is that normal?

 

[Farmall450]

It sounds like it definetly needs more power...we run compressors off their own outlet, with unique plugs. 230...

 

[GoodEnough]

I think the CAT says 110V, but is this relevant?

CAT is plugged into an extension cord with a splitter at the end.
In 1 plug is the CAT. In the other is the 2 bulb work lamp.
The extension cord goes into 1 wall socket.
In the other wall socket is a fluorescent overhead light.

 

[GoodEnough]

Will having too little power damage the compressor?
I'm worried about that electrical smoke I saw.

 

[The Cobbler]

too small a cord = too little power (or voltage drop) voltage drop causes less than required voltage at the motor resulting in overheating and burnout.( causes the motor to work harder)

 

[MFolks]

You'll need a 12 gauge extension cord, and 10 gauge would be better, for the electrical load of the compressors motor.

 

[GoodEnough]

I probably have a cheapo extension cord from Home Depot.
I think the wire seems thin. Iv'e seen thicker.

Ok, I will look for 10 gauge.
Any good place to buy that?

 

[jakemac]

You should never run a compressor on an extension cord. The resistance in the cord drops the voltage down below the compressor's needs. Running the compressor that way can burn out the motor. The start-up AMPs can exceed the 15 or 20 amp rating of the power line. If at all possible, run the compressor on it's own 20amp circuit. Run you're lights off a different circuit. Keep in mind that, just because an outlet is on another wall, it may still be (and likely is) on the same circuit.

Let it cool all the way down, get it off the X-cord, and try running it on it's own circuit to see if it's damaged. You may get away with it once or twice, but not for long. Always plug the compressor in as close to the power source as possible. Buy extra hoses to get you to the work area, that's what hoses are for.

 

[The Cobbler]

fisrt an extension cord is a no no, but,,,,ideally you need the full load amps, the length of cable & search the web for voltage drop tables to calculate what you need. as mentioned previous, you should use at least a 12 g cable ( 14 g if it's not very long) even a 12 g shouldn't be very long

 

[jakemac]

You'll need a 12 gauge extension cord, and 10 gauge would be better, for the electrical load of the compressors motor.

This might work for up to 25', but you have to remember that the wire in the wall may only be 14ga. Which means that you'll still run into the same voltage drop issues.

 

[GoodEnough]

Can someone clarify why the extension cord voltage drop is actually bad for the motor?

Is it because the motor can't work as hard, so it has to run longer on lower power? I don't think this was my issue, b/c the compressor was almost never running, and was pretty quick to refill. It only refilled itself maybe 5 times all day (6 gallon tank), so it barely ran.

Or is it b/c the motor simply can't run properly on reduced power, so the internals are being burnt out, but it has nothing to do with how long the compressor was running (like adding bad gasoline or something) ie: It can run very briefly, and still get burnt out from the low power? In light of #3 in my original post, was it hesitating on the refill and is this the "start up amps" problem mentioned above.

I will try to minimize the length of the cord. In fact, I had it plugged into 2 extension cords daisy chained together. I will also think about moving the compressor into the garage that has the actual wall socket, and using a longer extension hose.

I am wondering why the dual bulb (250W each) bright Dewalt work lights (plugged into same circuit) were toggling between dim and bright when the compressor wasn't even running. Does the compressor draw any power while just sitting there, mostly full? Or are the lights simply just not getting enough power either? Just like the compressor. They were also plugged into 2 long extension cords, and the lights are bright. Would it be smart to turn off the lights while the compressor is running?

 

[Outlawmws]

I think some pictures of the setup are in order about now. Hard to diagnose with words alone, and no reference.

 

[The Cobbler]

Can someone clarify why the voltage drop is actually bad for the motor? .....

here

......... voltage drop causes less than required voltage at the motor resulting in overheating and burnout.( causes the motor to work harder)

 

[jakemac]

The lights may have been dimming because the motor was trying to start up (big AMP draw) and couldn't due to insufficient power in the line, so it froze but still kept trying. This may also be why the motor overheated even though it wasn't running. At some point a thermal safety switch on the motor should have gone off, which is why it may not have started up when you flicked the switch. Or the motor was still seized from low amperage.

 

[Outlawmws]

Can someone clarify why the voltage drop is actually bad for the motor? Is it because the motor can't work as hard, so it has to run longer on lower power? I don't think this was my issue, b/c the compressor was not even close to always running, and was pretty quick to refill. Or is it b/c the motor can't run right, and the internals are being ruined (Like adding bad gasoline or something)

I am wondering why the lights were toggling between dim and bright when the compressor wasn't even running. Would it be smart to turn off the lights while the compressor is running? Does the compressor draw any power while just sitting there, mostly full?

I will try to minimize the length of the cord. In fact, I had it plugged into 2 extension cords daisy chained together. I will also think about moving the compressor into the garage that has the actual wall socket, and using a longer extension hose.

THIS is the proper way. even with a direct connection, as mentioned, with 14 ga. in wall, as a possibility, you may be overloading the line and dropping the line voltage especially on start-up.

 

[GoodEnough]

The lights may have been dimming because the motor was trying to start up (big AMP draw) and couldn't due to insufficient power in the line, so it froze but still kept trying. This may also be why the motor overheated even though it wasn't running. At some point a thermal safety switch on the motor should have gone off, which is why it may not have started up when you flicked the switch. Or the motor was still seized from low amperage.

Wow. This is probably why it was low on air, yet it wasn't refilling. Just hiccuping.

So, it was technically running when it was trying to start up, but unable. This may have caused the smoke. This could mean the motor was trying to start all afternoon. I think that telltale "hiccup" might have been just that, and it was doing that a lot. Damn.

I think I can plug the lights into another circuit. That should help.
And I will try to address the extension cord issue, as well.

 

[J.harris]

voltage*amperage=wattage

Your compressor has a rating of 7.6 amps at 110v, so that's 836watts.

110v*7.6a=836watts

But when you have voltage drop down to for example 80 volts the compressor is still going to pull 836 watts but this time at 10.45 amps.

80v*10.45a=836watts

It's not a fact of low voltage burning your motor out, it's the increased amperage that comes along with lower voltage which generates more heat. Look up what "brown outs" can do to electronics.

Pulled from wiki

"An induction motor will draw more current to compensate for the decreased voltage, which may lead to overheating and burnout."

 

[GoodEnough]

I hope I didn't burn out the motor.
I didn't use the air tools much today, so the CAT was mostly just sitting.
It only needed to refill a couple of times.
So, I think most of the time, it was just sitting there.

 

[JimmyBallew]

2) I have a bright DeWalt work lamp plugged into the same socket. 2 hot bulbs. I notice the light will sporadically go dim. Then it will suddenly become very bright. During this time, the CAT has not begun refilling. Does it vary its power draw even when just sitting there, not pumping? Is the CAT causing this?

Does your light go brighter than normal when it dims or just back to normal brightness? If it goes very bright, check from neutral to ground and see if there is any voltage present. If there is you have a loose neutral on your electrical panel. I've ran into that several times over the years at work and it will cause all kinds of strange symptoms.

 

[LWW]

Keep your receipt handy. The constant startup attempts cycling the motor causing it to overheat and trip the thermal protection switch could have damaged the motor. I would get it ready for a return. I don't know about the build date or location of your house but back in the 80's when I was in the electrical apprenticeship proogram 12x3 was the residential building code in Oklahoma. 12Ga x 3 conductor - hot, neutral and ground. If you've got 14Ga wire its likely going to be from the 70's or earlier. Get yourself a good 10Ga extension cord for the replacement if you have to replace it...

Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk

 

[Jswain]

Yeah you always want to use air hose to make the distance not extension cords. Air hose is probably cheaper anyways. Just get a half *** decent 3/8 50ft rubber air hose you can get them at costco for 19.99.

 

[Davefr]

Can you jumper it to run on 220VAC?? (if so it'll run more efficiently)

 

[xj31]

Not trying to be a smartass, but that compressor seems a little weak. Less than 3cfm @ 90psi? 6.3 gallon? If you're running an impact you would probably be happier with a much bigger unit once you get the electrical sorted out

 

[scw1991]

I'm with xj31. That compressor way too small and underpowered. An impact gun uses a lot of air and must have a constant 90 psi or greater going to the gun at all times. I had a true 1-1/2 HP motor coupled to a pump mounted on a 12 gallon tank pressurized to 125 psi. The tank simply was not large enough in volume to use an impact gun. The gun would struggle and fail to bust lug nuts loose on my truck. Eventually, the nut built up so much heat that it stripped itself onto the stud.

 

[Outlawmws]

Can you jumper it to run on 220VAC?? (if so it'll run more efficiently)

Assuming he has 220 available. From the sounds of his garage description in other threads, he's probably renting and has minimal power available in the garage.

 

[Farmall450]

You'll need a 12 gauge extension cord, and 10 gauge would be better, for the electrical load of the compressors motor.

And NO "SPLITTER" on the end.

Are you crazy OP??

 

[CNGsaves]

PICTURES or it didn't happen. Show ACTUAL PICTURES of the compressor, electric motor tag, plug-in, garage wiring, electrical panel breaker, halogen light, etc.

What country is this ??

 

[Farmall450]

PICTURES or it didn't happen. Show ACTUAL PICTURES of the compressor, electric motor tag, plug-in, garage wiring, electrical panel breaker, halogen light, etc.

What country is this ??

He's right, that would make it a lot easier for all of us...
It's hard to just picture some of this from a description...

 

[GoodEnough]

Keep your receipt handy. The constant startup attempts cycling the motor causing it to overheat and trip the thermal protection switch could have damaged the motor. I would get it ready for a return. Get yourself a good 10Ga extension cord for the replacement if you have to replace it...

If I broke the compressor on the first day, it's my fault. If it's fried, I will just buy a new one. It's not the sellers fault. This is operator error. I had no idea extension cords matter (I actually had it daisy chained using 2 different extension cords, the $5 kind. And I had no idea it matters if other things like a 500W light are also plugged in at the same time.

I will get a 10G extension cord.

And NO "SPLITTER" on the end.
Are you crazy OP??

I have zero experience with things electrical. I see a electrical plug, and plug the thing in. That's it. That's about the extent of most people's electrical knowledge, unless they make a living using tools. I have never owned a tool until I was in middle age.

I'm learning a lot on this forum. Thanks!

Not trying to be a smartass, but that compressor seems a little weak. Less than 3cfm @ 90psi? 6.3 gallon? If you're running an impact you would probably be happier with a much bigger unit once you get the electrical sorted out

I have a sound restriction.
This is my only option for a quiet compressor.
A weak compressor still beats a wrench.
6 gallon was fine. I only do a few bolts per project.
It can refill after each bolt, and I have no issue with that.
I work slowly. Refilling is not slowing me down one bit.

For $200, if it just works once in a while on smaller bolts, it's totally worth it.
When fully powered, it helped me remove a 19mm nut yesterday.
Even if it just loosens it up, and I need to do the rest by hand, it's a step up.

I'm with xj31. That compressor way too small and underpowered. An impact gun uses a lot of air and must have a constant 90 psi or greater going to the gun at all times. I had a true 1-1/2 HP motor coupled to a pump mounted on a 12 gallon tank pressurized to 125 psi. The tank simply was not large enough in volume to use an impact gun. The gun would struggle and fail to bust lug nuts loose on my truck. Eventually, the nut built up so much heat that it stripped itself onto the stud.

This things is fine for my needs. I just need it to work a few bolts each weekend. Anything louder is not an option.

 

[GoodEnough]

I spoke to Larry @ customer service at California Air Tools. Man, what a nice guy. He took the time to explain what I've already learned in this thread.

He said there's a thermal shutdown mechanism inside, and it eventually fries if persistent. If the motor was burnt, it would not restart, and mine did once it cooled down. He also said to use the biggest gauge ext. cord, ideally none at all, use a longer hose, etc.

I am a big fan of this niche quiet light-duty compressor, and California Air Tools customer service called ME back this morning from my email I sent last night. What a great outfit.

 

[Sureshot]

You may be expecting too much from your impact. Their are different impacts and the more power the more air consumption in general. Tight bolts need to be broken with a strong arm and the impact speeds thing up.

 

[GoodEnough]

This is the $12 extension cord I was using
50 ft of 16 gauge / 13 amp / 125V (!!)

Oh, and this cord was plugged into another extension cord!
AND I had a 500W lamp going at the same time.

The power cord even has a tag that says "Don't use with extension cord" but I totally ignored that. Usually stupid useless tags usually say stuff like "Don't use this compressor in the swimming pool or while playing golf...Do not throw off the roof of a tall office building"

I plugged the compressor directly into the wall, and it powered up until 120PSI. Whew, it looks like I didn't burn out the motor, and learned something along the way.

 

[GoodEnough]

Is there any way to know the compressor is not getting enough power?
Like a little thing I can plug into the wall outlet chain?
That way if it’s reading under a certain amount, I will know there is a problem.

 

[Outlawmws]

Not really, you need to read the specs of what you want to plug in, and know what the outlet is capable of. The average home outlet is 15A tops. a very few will be 20A. knowing if it is GFIC is a good thing (Bathrooms and kitchens are required under current codes, to have GFIC protection. Older homes may not be up to code...).

One thing you CAN do is buy a simple plug in tester that will tell you if the plug is properly wired. Getting the black and white wires bas-akward when replacing is not uncommon. Those testers are a couple of bucks and IMO, EVERYONE should one one...

 

[GoodEnough]

Pardon my electrical ignorance, but won't I know if it's properly wired simply by virtue of my appliance getting power in the first place?

 

[GoodEnough]

voltage*amperage=wattage

Your compressor has a rating of 7.6 amps at 110v, so that's 836watts.

110v*7.6a=836watts

But when you have voltage drop down to for example 80 volts the compressor is still going to pull 836 watts but this time at 10.45 amps.

80v*10.45a=836watts

It's not a fact of low voltage burning your motor out, it's the increased amperage that comes along with lower voltage which generates more heat. Look up what "brown outs" can do to electronics.

Pulled from wiki

"An induction motor will draw more current to compensate for the decreased voltage, which may lead to overheating and burnout."

I would like to understand this post.

How is an appliance rated by amps? I thought amps is like the amount of water flow in a pipe (current) Isn't the cable rated by amps, in terms of how much current it can deliver?
I thought appliances are rated by watts. Does that 7.6 amp rating mean that's how much current is needed to power this compressor?

How does voltage drop? I thought voltage was fixed at 110V. Voltage is the amount of "pressure" pushing the electricity through the wire. What would cause the voltage drop? I would think the amps is what would drop here, b/c of the thin extension cord.

 

[Outlawmws]

No, most AC electrical devices will work plugged in either way, however modern plugs are polarized with a wider prong on one side to insure the thing gets plugged in so the hot is on one side and the return is on the other. For simple things like light bulbs it generally does not matter, for more complex devices, (home theaters, TVS computers etc) it can mater from a safety perspective as if the thing shorts out some way, it could potentially put hot power in places that could shock a user.

I got tagged by a drill press that was mis-wired, and was back feeding power into the common circuit and I was getting shocked when I was trying to cut a steel fence post.(ground)

There is an electrical code for a reason, and having been zapped to many times from others laziness and inability to follow instructions, I NEVER trust someone else's work.

Heck my next door neighbor had a plug wired in SERIES instead of in parallel, and unless a light was plugged into that particular socket, AND turned on, another outlet with a light would not work...

 

[WVBrady]

...I have a sound restriction.
This is my only option for a quiet compressor...Anything louder is not an option.

It is possible to have a larger compressor that is relatively quiet, but they are usually more expensive, because they run at a slower rpm. Whatever you do, do not get an oiless one, they are NOISY.

 

[Davefr]

How does voltage drop? I thought voltage was fixed at 110V. Voltage is the amount of "pressure" pushing the electricity through the wire. Why would the voltage drop? I would think the amps is what would drop here, b/c of the thin extension cord.

The voltage at the outlet is 110V but the extension cord and the compressor are both sharing that 110VAC. (ie they are both loads)

Ohms law tells us that the extension cord will drop voltage = amps X resistance. That may leave the compressor nearly starved for the voltage necessary to start if the cord has high resistance. (ie long and thin gauge)

When an induction motor stalls from lack of voltage to start it then it's current consumption increases a lot and burnout may occur.

When practical, it's always better to connect motors to high voltage so amps are low.

 

[GoodEnough]

Ok, so resistance of the cord is what drops the voltage (or "pressure") The cord is absorbing some of the power, and therefore there is less "pressure". Is that the right idea?

Now, with the lower voltage, and b/c W=VxA that means either the amps have to increase, or the watts have to decrease. It sounds like the watts of the appliance always stays the same? Harris said above that the amps will rise. What does this mean? How does the current or flow increase? By heat dissipation out of the wires in the motor or does the extension cord heat up?