Compressor after cooler

[EOC_Jason]

Transmission cooler and 240V fan (and an auto-drain):

It looks like you just wired the fan in the motor housing? Do you recall where you found the fan and how much it cost?

 

[alan camby]

Transmission cooler and 240V fan (and an auto-drain):

Are your copper lines connected with compression fittings or Inverted Flare like most of the OEM's do. I have 5/8" lines and my flare kit goes to 5/8", but it will only double flare to 1/2".

Think i might just use NPT brass pipe and a flex pipe.

 

[W-Cummins]

One note, the after cooler is normally followed up with a centrifugal water separator to remove the condensed water from the air. You could probably get away with a filter seperator to remove the water, but with reduced effectiveness. The automatic drain will remove the water if it's dripping out of the condenser, but will do nothing to remove the entrained water droplets in the air as it whizzes by the fitting to the drain. The main idea is to keep the bulk of the water OUT of the air tank.

William....

 

[alan camby]

One note, the after cooler is normally followed up with a centrifugal water separator to remove the condensed water from the air. You could probably get away with a filter seperator to remove the water, but with reduced effectiveness. The automatic drain will remove the water if it's dripping out of the condenser, but will do nothing to remove the entrained water droplets in the air as it whizzes by the fitting to the drain. The main idea is to keep the bulk of the water OUT of the air tank.

William....

I agree with most of what you are saying, but i think that the main idea is to keep the water out of the shop air lines, that is my main goal. Right now my air coming out of the tank is well over 100 degrees F. The air is saturated with moisture. All I have right now is a regulator and a 5 micron air filter/water separator. When I sandblast for over 30min the entire tank is very warm to the touch and the air lines are full of moisture. I want the tank to stay cool. I don't really want the tank to be the water trap, but i would rather have water there than in the air lines. I worked on large water cooled Atlas Copco's for over 10 years. After the after cooler they just had a simple trap catch the water. Obviously the air entered a dryer after that, but this trap collected an amazing amount of water.

I do agree that a better water separator after the cooler would be nice.

 

[brianpgriset]

It looks like you just wired the fan in the motor housing? Do you recall where you found the fan and how much it cost?

His looks identical to mine. I got mine on eBay. It's a cooling fan for electrical components and some other things I think. Just search ebm papst. They come in a variety of sizes and voltages. I got just the one I wanted used for
$30 .

 

[W-Cummins]

I agree with most of what you are saying, but i think that the main idea is to keep the water out of the shop air lines, that is my main goal. Right now my air coming out of the tank is well over 100 degrees F. The air is saturated with moisture. All I have right now is a regulator and a 5 micron air filter/water separator. When I sandblast for over 30min the entire tank is very warm to the touch and the air lines are full of moisture. I want the tank to stay cool. I don't really want the tank to be the water trap, but i would rather have water there than in the air lines. I worked on large water cooled Atlas Copco's for over 10 years. After the after cooler they just had a simple trap catch the water. Obviously the air entered a dryer after that, but this trap collected an amazing amount of water.

I do agree that a better water separator after the cooler would be nice.

I think we are on the same page, The main goal of the total system is to remove the water from the air.
The point I was trying to make is that the separator is (normally) there to remove the bulk of the water before the tank.
If you put a filter regulator after the after cooler instead of the separator you will still get some of the water out, but not as much. The drain that a lot of people are running has no "Flow through" and is just a drain. When it fills up the storage container the float drain opens and dumps the contents. So the drain only collects the water that is "Dripping" out of the after cooler. It seems that in that case you might as well just let it drip into the tank and remove it there.
You can see that I'm running the WSO separator and attached to the bottom of it is the X00 drain, in this case the drain is only used to drain the WSO. That setup dumps a lot of water out when the system is running.

Your concern about the tank temp is valid. A good setup will remove a lot of the temp from the air, But over time your system is going to heat up and the tank is going to get way above ambient temp if your running it hard. Also remember even at ambient temperature the air can contain a lot of water vapor.

At some point you need to determine how much moisture you can live with in your system. Over time I have come to the conclusion that I don't want any... So I have gone to the over kill route of using all the common removal methods, an after cooler, separator, particulate filter, coalescing filter/s, refrigerated drier, and a regenerative desiccant drier.... Of course all this hardware comes a cost, if purchased new my water removal setup would be well north of $7000.

William....

 

[pipsters]

I wonder what the efficiency difference in a centrifugal separator vs say a 5 micron filter would be after using an aftercooler.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000CBINA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

vs

http://www.ecompressedair.com/filtration/centrifugal-separators/aircel-centrifugal-separator.aspx

I would think you could achieve the same thing using a 5 micron filter or something, difference is for the very large compressors a centrifugal separator will flow much more air. Probably not an issue with a 120v or smaller 220v compressor, more an issue (I'm thinking) with the larger 3 phase compressors used in industry.

This is the water collected using the $25 CH/Kobalt/Husky/Craftsman (all seem rebranded made by CH) 5 micron filter from an aftercooler made from coiled copper and a fan after ONE pumping cycle (0 to 120 psi):

 

[pipsters]

Transmission cooler and 240V fan (and an auto-drain):

That looks like a great way to cool the air but why didn't you run the output through the filter then into the tank? Seems like a waste. You probably get some larger droplets out from the way you have run it but certainly not nearly as much as you could be getting.

 

[lametec]

looking good, whats the diff in temps at the tank fitting?

See post 67.

 

[buening]

His looks identical to mine. I got mine on eBay. It's a cooling fan for electrical components and some other things I think. Just search ebm papst. They come in a variety of sizes and voltages. I got just the one I wanted used for
$30 .

Mind I ask what model number EBM Papst you bought? Seems all I can find are small server case fans (6" dia and small CFM)

 

[lametec]

In my case, it's a W2E250-HL06-01.

 

[lametec]

It looks like you just wired the fan in the motor housing? Do you recall where you found the fan and how much it cost?

Yep, wired in parallel with the motor. So when the motor runs, the fan runs. Got the fan off ebay for $15 + $12 shipping.

Are your copper lines connected with compression fittings or Inverted Flare like most of the OEM's do.

Compression fittings. It's what was already used from the factory.

That looks like a great way to cool the air but why didn't you run the output through the filter then into the tank? Seems like a waste. You probably get some larger droplets out from the way you have run it but certainly not nearly as much as you could be getting.

Because I don't have a filter/separator, except a MotorGuard filter for the plasma cutter/sand blaster. The rest of the air tools get unfiltered/undried air. With that said, I don't get any water out of the blow guns anymore, but did before the aftercooler install.

 

[brianpgriset]

I got a w2e200-hk86. It's 200mm diameter (the second number in the model is the fan diameter). 115v. About 600scfm. Here is a link to their entire axial fan product line (PDF).

http://www.ebmpapst.us/Documents/axial.pdf

 

[buening]

In my case, it's a W2E250-HL06-01.

Thanks! I did the conversion from that link on the output and it puts out 710cfm, FYI

 

[brianpgriset]

I got the dripleg put together and the brackets for the after cooler setup. Just need to fab the dripleg bracket then plumbing and electrical.

 

[alan camby]

I am starting to get all the parts for my After cooler Project.
So far I have
-10' roll of 5/8" copper.
-Assortment of compression fittings for the cooler connections.

Also have a few parts on order that should be here by the end of the week.
-CX racing 15 row cooler from Ebay that others have posted.
-Double flaring tool for the connections on the compressor outlet and the check valve (tank inlet)

Was unable to find a great deal on ebay for the muffin / cooling fan. Ended up buying new from Mcmaster Carr, part #1976K99, and fan guard 19155k99

Also ordered a 3404-00 water separator from TP tools.

Right now I am working on moving the compressor. The left side, looking from the front, is to close to some metal racking. I need some space on this side for the new cooler. I am going to mount it on the same side as Lametec and Brianpgriset.

 

[buening]

Alan, double check the fitting type on that CX racing cooler. If it is AN, you will need an AN to NPT adapter (not commonly found at your local hardware store!)

 

[alan camby]

Alan, double check the fitting type on that CX racing cooler. If it is AN, you will need an AN to NPT adapter (not commonly found at your local hardware store!)

It was advertised as 3/4" NPT female. UPS tracking shows it will be here tomorrow.

Maybe if Brian see's this he can comment if it is NPT. I ordered from the same link.

Thanks for posting

 

[buening]

Guess I should have opened up the ebay auction first! LOL

 

[brianpgriset]

It was advertised as 3/4" NPT female. UPS tracking shows it will be here tomorrow.

Maybe if Brian see's this he can comment if it is NPT. I ordered from the same link.

Thanks for posting

I can confirm it is 3/4" fnpt.

 

[alan camby]

my cooler came in today and my fan came in 2 days ago. Started mocking up my mounts. everything is tacked and in the location I want. Tommorrow I will take it back apart and finish all of the welds and get it ready for paint.

 

[alan camby]

This post is a little off subject but here is the rest of the project.

When i first started this cooler I had some space problems with a rack next to the left side of the compressor which would not let me fit a cooler. Decided i wanted to make the compressor a little easier to move, so i built a metal skid for the compressor to live on. Now i can move it with my homemade Kubota forklift attachment. The idea is to no longer anchor the compressor to the floor. Hope this works ot ok. The new base is 31" x 31".

Note: The picture shows some scrap c-channel under the legs which will not be used, they are for lifting the skid for paint.

Now while the paint is drying on the cooler mount I will work on putting the compressor on the skid.

My next step will be to assemble the cooler to the mount and run the new copper lines.

Finally I will have to wire the fan from the pressure switch and hook the main compressor power up to the disconnect.

 

[phy6]

This post is a little off subject but here is the rest of the project.

When i first started this cooler I had some space problems with a rack next to the left side of the compressor which would not let me fit a cooler. Decided i wanted to make the compressor a little easier to move, so i built a metal skid for the compressor to live on. Now i can move it with my homemade Kubota forklift attachment. The idea is to no longer anchor the compressor to the floor. Hope this works ot ok. The new base is 31" x 31".

Note: The picture shows some scrap c-channel under the legs which will not be used, they are for lifting the skid for paint.

Now while the paint is drying on the cooler mount I will work on putting the compressor on the skid.

My next step will be to assemble the cooler to the mount and run the new copper lines.

Finally I will have to wire the fan from the pressure switch and hook the main compressor power up to the disconnect.

You'll still want some industrial hard rubber blocks underneath the mounts. It will keep things a little quieter and also save your tank from cracking near the motor mount.

 

[alan camby]

You'll still want some industrial hard rubber blocks underneath the mounts. It will keep things a little quieter and also save your tank from cracking near the motor mount.

Were are you recommending the rubber mounts? The reason I built the skid out of c- channel was to help absorb the vibrations. It is amazing the amount of flex you can get with it.

My compressor was solidly anchored to the floor for the last 10 years with no problems.

I do plan to put some rubber under the 4 skid feet, mostly to protect the concrete.

 

[mayday0017]

The new aftercooler setup looks sweet!

 

[phy6]

Were are you recommending the rubber mounts? The reason I built the skid out of c- channel was to help absorb the vibrations. It is amazing the amount of flex you can get with it.

My compressor was solidly anchored to the floor for the last 10 years with no problems.

I do plan to put some rubber under the 4 skid feet, mostly to protect the concrete.

I had a compressor once that was mounted on a hefty pallet it came on, developed a crack at the top near the huge C channel that the compressor is mounted on. The tank was irreparable. The shop that swapped the tank for me said it's common to develop cracks at the top when the vibrations aren't absorbed. Just trying to be helpful and hope that others avoid the pain of taking your compressor in for a tank replacement! (CH/Husky would only ship the 80Gal tank to a CH repair shop)

You could probably have a piece of rubber floor mat between the compressor feet and the nice rack you made, and maybe some 1/4" rubber pieces between the rack and the floor, just to keep it from rattling or sliding around. I'm thinking something like trucker's mud flaps cut up into strips, so it doesn't add too much height. Just an idea.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Or if you could find some isolator mounts that would go between the compressor and the skid... They kind of look like donuts... You would bolt from the compressor, through the isolators, down to the skid.

The only negative to that is there is a lot of weight so you would definitely need to make sure the pads can hold the weight, and also make sure you are using proper bolts (grade 8?)...

I know for sure you could find isolator "feet" that could replace the four bolt you have on the bottom of the skid. McMaster Carr has them cheap.

 

[PT Doc]

I got the dripleg put together and the brackets for the after cooler setup. Just need to fab the dripleg bracket then plumbing and electrical.

Any details on your setup? How much water is still in the tank after it runs? Thanks

 

[alan camby]

Finished up my after cooler

Seems to be working well.

yesterday, before the cooler was on ,I ran the compressor to take some temperature readings.
From o psi to 132 psi (one complete cycle) the copper surface temperature reached 163 degrees F at the inlet of the 80 gal tank.
Next, I ran the compressor for about 10 min while i sandblasted the mount i made for the cooler. Inlet of the tank reached 211 degrees F. The center of the tank was at 125 degrees F.


Today, after the cooler was installed, I ran one complete pressure cycle from 0 psi to 132 psi. The inlet of the cooler reached 133 degrees F and the outlet of the cooler was at 99.5 degrees F.

Have not had a chance to run the compressor for a extended amount of time to really find out what it will do. I Will report back later.

 

[pipsters]

Are you getting any moisture out of the filter? That is the key question here IMO.

 

[alan camby]

Here is the new compressor base. Ended up putting rubber under the tank mounts and the base feet. Thanks for the recommendations.
Now I can drain the tank without getting water all over the place. Still need to find a small bucket though.

 

[pipsters]

Here is the new compressor base. Ended up putting rubber under the tank mounts and the base feet. Thanks for the recommendations.
Now I can drain the tank without getting water all over the place. Still need to find a small bucket though.

So still getting a lot of water in the tank. The aftercooler certainly reduced the temp (but not by much). This is good info. Either the aftercooler needs to be made much bigger or there really is no water being condensed out after going through it.

 

[alan camby]

Are you getting any moisture out of the filter? That is the key question here IMO.

I open the trap after that one pressure cycle and it had droplets of water around the sides and the bottom of the bowl, no pooling. Like I said, still have not had a chance to really run it hard and long.

If the trap does not catch it all that is fine by me. i am just hoping that the center of the 80 gal tank does not get anywhere near the 125 degrees after 10 min. Hopefully the tank will be able to catch more water and the filter after the tank can catch some more. My goal is to keep the water out of the air lines. Before the cooler install my sandblaster blew a mist of water after the pump ran for just 10 min.

One neat thing about the cooler is feeling the cooler as the pump was running. The top of the cooler was very hot, could not touch it for long, while the center going down to the base progressively got cooler.

i am thinking that this has to help. My compressor might make more heat than some due to it being single stage with no small intercooler.

Just noticed that intercooler is one word while after cooler is two. That is strange

 

[alan camby]

So still getting a lot of water in the tank. The aftercooler certainly reduced the temp (but not by much). This is good info. Either the aftercooler needs to be made much bigger or there really is no water being condensed out after going through it.

i agree that the bigger the better for the cooler. Trick is finding one that is affordable. I am running this comp in a 23' x 23' garage, and cost is a concern, If money was not a issue I would have stated out with a large $3000 compressor that had a factory aftercooler, pressure lube, and two stage. Though most of the factory coolers i have seen don't even have a drip leg after the cooler. The tank is the trap.

 

[EOC_Jason]

I think a more long-term test is needed like you did before mounting the cooler to make a judgement call if the radiator needs to be bigger. Air is not the best at thermal transfer, so you can't really use the same size as you would for a liquid and expect the same results. In this case larger is most certainly better.

Better the water ends up in the bottom of the tank and not in your air lines...

 

[alan camby]

Alright I ran the compressor for 100% of 11 min. The Weather Channel shows 89 degrees in my area and my garage thermostats both show 87 degrees.
At the end of the time, compressor still running, these are the max temps my infrared thermometer shows.
-Inlet of cooler 148.2 F
-outlet of cooler 108.6 F
-top of tank inlet check valve. 96.3 F
-center of tank 91.7 F

I think i can improve these numbers a bit by patching up some of the gaps between the cooler and the fan. Should be able to get a little more air over the cooler.

My after cooler trap had about 1 ounce of water in the bottom. The tank had a few drops in the bottom. I did not measure my steel lines after the tank but i think there is a huge difference. lines feel like room temp. I am not seeing any water mist out of my blow gun.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Which way is your fan blowing? Towards the cooler?

Let's see, before it was 211F going into the tank. Now it is 96F at the same spot? That's tremendous! You can't complain about a 100 degree drop for what that radiator is doing... You're only a few degrees above ambient!

Relative humidity is also important. If there's little moisture in the air, then your compressor isn't going to make water magically... Now down here in Houston where it's always crazy high humidity levels... drain tank daily, if not several times a day!

 

[alan camby]

Which way is your fan blowing? Towards the cooler?

Let's see, before it was 211F going into the tank. Now it is 96F at the same spot? That's tremendous! You can't complain about a 100 degree drop for what that radiator is doing... You're only a few degrees above ambient!

Relative humidity is also important. If there's little moisture in the air, then your compressor isn't going to make water magically... Now down here in Houston where it's always crazy high humidity levels... drain tank daily, if not several times a day!

fan is blowing torwards the cooler. As you and most people know, a fan pushes better then it pulls.

 

[cj8lvr]

Mr. Camby,

I have the exact same compressor. I love the way you set yours up.

Would you mind doing us a favor here by listing your parts with part numbers and where you got them from (maybe even price as well). Diameter of lines and fittings etc.
Extremely clean setup and I think everybody would benefit from it if you'd just post it all in one post outlining materials etc.

Well done!

 

[PT Doc]

Seems like the temp drop was quite good. For me the important part is keeping water out of the tank and it seems like yours is doing that. Maybe a better quality water separator would help or another one inline with yours.