Compressor after cooler

[e-tek]

Haha, what you don't see in that picture is the three feet of scrap sitting on the ground after I screwed up the piece from the pump to dripleg the first time . After wasting that ~$10 of soft copper tube I made damn sure the rest were spot on.

Sounds like my plumbing adventures! Very nice end result though.

 

[ls1jay]

Im considering building an aftercooler for mine after seeing how effective they are. Do you think an Auto AC condenser would flow enough air, or would it be a restriction. Most I see have an inlet of 8an and outlet of 6an, which i think equates to 3/8 and 1/2" inside diameter. I need to keep the cost down on this, as I have been putting more money into tools and compressor lately than the wife would like, But after using my brand new IR DA sander last night and watching water shoot out of my brand new tools I realized something has to be done.

 

[cj8lvr]

Guys, I've been doing some serious digging around the internet and think I may have come up with a pretty good solution for a air cooler. Using some of the links (mostly ebay) in this thread and some of the other important criteria folks have suggested, I think I've found a good solution.

What do y'all think of this model?

Best I've been able to tell it's been tested to 200psi and has 1/2" npt fittings.
Price beats the pants off of the AKG 4UJG5 from Grainger.

 

[cj8lvr]

Also ordered a 3404-00 water separator from TP tools.

I have some questions Alan.

Is this the model you have from TP tools?

I have a discount from Fastenal and am considering one of these instead of that model. (A little cheaper) However, the one from Fastenal is only rated up to 145 psi. I'm worried that may be too low. Do you know what kind of pressure our pumps are putting out before the tank?

 

[alan camby]

I have some questions Alan.

Is this the model you have from TP tools?

I have a discount from Fastenal and am considering one of these instead of that model. (A little cheaper) However, the one from Fastenal is only rated up to 145 psi. I'm worried that may be too low. Do you know what kind of pressure our pumps are putting out before the tank?

145psi Does not seem like much of a safety margin. What if the filter clogs up?
To be honest, my setup and most modified comps with coolers are not done the way the factory does. I should have put a relief valve for over pressure before the cooler. This way if the cooler or filter clogs the relief will blow.
How much pressure does the pump put out before the tank? That will be determined by how much resistance is in the piping, cooler, filter, and check valve between the pump and tank.

I also wonder how these clear bowls age over time and how do they stand up to UV light. My House water filter has a clear spin on bowl for the filter. The directions indicated to change the clear part after so many years. Can't remember the exact interval. Mine is approaching 10 years though

My air filter is the the 1/2" TP model though you can get the same filter with 3/4" NPT if you like for more money. The link you provided is not the one TP shipped me as you can see in the picture. The one you linked does not appear to be available in 3/4" either.

One thing I thought was junk on the TP is the drain on the bottom. It is all plastic and the small airway will clog quickly with the slimy stuff that accumulates in the condensate. Luckily it is tapped to 1/4" NPT on the bottom so a Ball Valve was a easy mod.

Hope all that rambling helps

 

[cj8lvr]

"...all that rambling..."
Helped a lot! I'm going to go with the one you have from TP. A safer option.
I have a pressure gauge I may throw inline in my setup just to have an idea of what kind of pressure builds up before the filter but after the cooler. Would be interesting to watch. I ordered my cooler yesterday as well as the same fan (1976K99 from McMaster) and guard as yours, Alan. Fittings and copper is all I'll lack to cobble mine together. Maybe do a little on it this weekend. Thanks for all of your help.

 

[HAP]

Alaln,

thanks so much for posting the pic of that water sep. I have the 3/4" version and hated that crappy "auto drain" feature. I did not know that 1/4" NPT was hidden under it. I went to the shop an removed it as soon as I read your reply. Suggest the same mod for anyone else using this type.

Thanks again.
HAP

 

[Dragster Racer]

All the talk about removing moisture is all well and good, but between the tank removing some as it cools and a water seperator, most should be out before the air lines anyhow. My big question with the aftercooler is whether it shortens run times. Actually, it may be more important to measure off times. My reasoning is thist: When hot air enters the tank, it is less dense....there is less air there than if it were cool. When the compressor goes off, the tank pressure can drop some as the air in the tank cools. Put dense air into the tank, and it ought to last longer. Just my thought. The idea of these aftercoolers is to increase efficiency.

 

[Skep18]

Watched a guy on YouTube by the screen name of chevahaulic thanks to reading a guy on here reference him and put this together. Sorry for the crappy pics. I used compression fittings, a old junk yard A/C condenser, a couple of filters from HF, a regulator/coalescing filter and a bunch of 1/2" copper tubing. Not as sophisticated as some of them on here, but was kinda trying to stay somewhat budget minded.

Compressor > check valve > AC condenser > water catch can (HF Filter) > main 60 gallon tank > dessicant filled HF filter > regulator/coalescing filter > hose.

Went through all this as I didn't want to run hard lines in my garage. Haven't used it much since I installed it like last week, but I'm hopeful! The condenser gets hella hot!

 

[brianpgriset]

Just as an update, although Alan's cooler failed mine is still going strong with 4 hours runtime since installed. I think it helps that I have a two stage machine which keeps discharge temps lower. Still would probably choose a different cooler if doing it all over again, but so far so good.

 

[nine4gmc]

Alan's cooler failed?

 

[alan camby]

Alan's cooler failed?

My first cooler did. It was a CX racing oil cooler.
My current Grainger sourced cooler is going strong. I have been doing a lot of blasting lately with some sessions around 45min.

 

[Dragster Racer]

So, other than lower tank temps, what have you noticed as far as performance gains from your compressor? That's really where the rubber meets the road. Has it made a noticable difference?

 

[OccupantRJ]

I use one of these on a compressor at work. Water is piped through it via an electric solenoid that energizes when the compressor runs. Water is drained to waste while compressor is running. This is located inside a building that is heated at all times. Link shows the aftercooler.
It would be fairly easy to fabrite one from copper pipe and fittings.

http://www.bidonequipment.info/pdf ... Aftercoolers Models 2Z926, 2Z927 & 4Z427.pdf

 

[pipsters]

So, other than lower tank temps, what have you noticed as far as performance gains from your compressor? That's really where the rubber meets the road. Has it made a noticable difference?

The purpose of an aftercooler isn't to increase compressor performance - it can't physically do that. The idea behind it is you cool the air enough to condense the majority of the water out before it even hits the tank.

Check out this PDF, it shows the amount of water removed from just one cycle on a 120v compressor from just a coil of copper:

El Cheapo After Cooler

 

[dsmnickk90]

Is their a reason why you guys are using these after coolers instead of a refrigerant type dryer?

 

[PT Doc]

Is their a reason why you guys are using these after coolers instead of a refrigerant type dryer?

These coolers are being installed prior to the tank. Refrigerated coolers go after the tank. Intake temps on the refrigerated unit are not that high and have fairly low psi that makes them not really specd to be installed prior to the tank. Although someone on this forum has one installed this way and has not reported problems.

 

[dsmnickk90]

These coolers are being installed prior to the tank. Refrigerated coolers go after the tank. Intake temps on the refrigerated unit are not that high and have fairly low psi that makes them not really specd to be installed prior to the tank. Although someone on this forum has one installed this way and has not reported problems.

Witch unit will provide dryest air out the end of the hose?

 

[CNGsaves]

Great thread. Work you've done is great budget solution to take out moisture and heat earlier.

Can't help but wonder if there ever was a "solution" worked up that had extra pulley slots on motor itself drive the fan for aftercooler, rather than another electric motor (ie fan) that could fail??

Could be 3-V-pulley on main motor:
1) main pulley drive compressor by flywheel with some fan features,
2) the 2nd v-belt drive fan for aftercooler, and
3) the 3rd v-belt drive a fan mounted down near floor pushing cool air up a tube blowing on top of compressor head. Thus, all mechanical . . . . would it work??

 

[W-Cummins]

Great thread. Work you've done is great budget solution to take out moisture and heat earlier.

Can't help but wonder if there ever was a "solution" worked up that had extra pulley slots on motor itself drive the fan for aftercooler, rather than another electric motor (ie fan) that could fail??

Could be 3-V-pulley on main motor:
1) main pulley drive compressor by flywheel with some fan features,
2) the 2nd v-belt drive fan for aftercooler, and
3) the 3rd v-belt drive a fan mounted down near floor pushing cool air up a tube blowing on top of compressor head. Thus, all mechanical . . . . would it work??

You don't need to do any of this, most compressor pumps have a fan built in to their pulley ( like in post #56 way back when. Just mount the after cooler on or by the belt guard and move on!

William....

 

[alabamatoy]

deletia

Pipsters, I really dont appreciate you cutting those images out of the PDF tech article I wrote several years ago and using them like that. The *least* you could do is source them, but the proper thing to do is to link back to the document. Those two pictures were taken by me, and they come from a PDF tech article I wrote and posted to my 4X4 club website several years ago. In another post here on this site (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2915843&postcount=175) you linked back to the actual article, which is fine, and is the correct way to reference something that is intellectual property of someone else. But copying my photos out of my article and posting it separately without any citation or clarification that the picture is not yours is misleading and wrong. This site could actually get in legal trouble for copyright violation for sponsoring that sort of activity.

Cite the article, criticize it all you want, improve upon it for your own project writeup etc, but dont copy part of mine and repost it as though it were your own, without citing where you got it from. That's stealing.

 

[Dragster Racer]

The purpose of an aftercooler isn't to increase compressor performance - it can't physically do that. The idea behind it is you cool the air enough to condense the majority of the water out before it even hits the tank.

Check out this PDF, it shows the amount of water removed from just one cycle on a 120v compressor from just a coil of copper:

El Cheapo After Cooler

http://www.ecompressedair.com/library-pages/aftercoolers.aspx
Actually, there are several purposes. Moisture isn't a big deal in my system currently. It doesn't seem as thought the capacity advantages are significant.

 

[pipsters]

Pipsters, I really dont appreciate you cutting those images out of the PDF tech article I wrote several years ago and using them like that. The *least* you could do is source them, but the proper thing to do is to link back to the document. Those two pictures were taken by me, and they come from a PDF tech article I wrote and posted to my 4X4 club website several years ago. In another post here on this site (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2915843&postcount=175) you linked back to the actual article, which is fine, and is the correct way to reference something that is intellectual property of someone else. But copying my photos out of my article and posting it separately without any citation or clarification that the picture is not yours is misleading and wrong. This site could actually get in legal trouble for copyright violation for sponsoring that sort of activity.

Cite the article, criticize it all you want, improve upon it for your own project writeup etc, but dont copy part of mine and repost it as though it were your own, without citing where you got it from. That's stealing.

Do you really feel my post was meant to steal your intellectual property? Really? Website owners are not responsible for content FYI. You can, at your leisure, feel free to email the site owner and ask for the pictures to be removed at your wish. If you feel that is wihat you need to do and that you are harmed by those images, go for it. I lose nothing, the folks on here and those searching are the ones who will lose (my guess is that is how you found that post).

Edit: Just looked at the "tech article" again. Not a single mention of a name, address, phone number, etc. on it what so ever. I'm sorry you feel cheated. The only way I was able to now know who the author was, was by going to the main web site and finding where it was posted. A simple google search of whatever string I used to find the PDF doesn't have any mention of "Doc Elliott" on it.

 

[alabamatoy]

Website owners are not responsible for content FYI.

Really? Might want to ask the folks who created Napster and other music/video sharing sites about their experiences in that area. They might have a different perspective. Course I dont have the bottomless pockets of the attorneys of the MPAA or RIAA to pursue the issue. Copyright is just that, a RIGHT. Its not called a copyPRIVILEGE for a reason.

You can, at your leisure, feel free to email the site owner and ask for the pictures to be removed at your wish. If you feel that is wihat you need to do and that you are harmed by those images, go for it. I lose nothing, the folks on here and those searching are the ones who will lose (my guess is that is how you found that post).

Nah, Im fine with it the way it is. Your public persona has been damaged by your lack of ethics, and that's sufficient to my needs. Its pretty obvious from your attitude that you havent learned a doggone thing, so I'll stop trying to enlighten you.

 

[phy6]

Really? Might want to ask the folks who created Napster and other music/video sharing sites about their experiences in that area. They might have a different perspective. Course I dont have the bottomless pockets of the attorneys of the MPAA or RIAA to pursue the issue. Copyright is just that, a RIGHT. Its not called a copyPRIVILEGE for a reason.



Nah, Im fine with it the way it is. Your public persona has been damaged by your lack of ethics, and that's sufficient to my needs. Its pretty obvious from your attitude that you havent learned a doggone thing, so I'll stop trying to enlighten you.

Thank you for your contributions Pipster, although I can't say that those two pictures changed my life in any way, until now. The owner wanted attention for his pixels, and now we know the kind of person attached to that hand. Your reply did not warrant the belligerence of his insolence.
Perhaps if the owner cared to exert the control over his work he's entitled to, he could have put his name, a link to his site, a watermark or simply the (now optional) copyright symbol. As a person in IT you would think he understood that people claiming mine-mine-mine-glory-to-ME-from-all-instantiations! to 1's and 0's will go the way of other failed ideologies (like prohibition), rather than claim it is some kind of enlightenment. Especially when the original document was freely available on the web with no apparent attribution (how do we know HE really owns it at all? Does it say so on the document? Or is it just on his site?).

And Pipster, you are completely correct in stating that TGJ is not legally responsible for the postings of it's members (the same goes for all social networking sites operating under US law). If it was, any number of trolls could have forums and social networks shut down by posting illegal materials.

I'd like to ask the new member and owner of that glorious man hand to be open minded and open hearted about fair use on the interwebs, especially in light of

• The purpose of the use (for inspiration, no one took credit for your work)
• The nature of the pictures (used in a positive light and not offensive)
• The amount and portion of the work used
• The affect on the potential market value for the work
• The fact that the link to the original document's location, providing credit, was already supplied to the same g*ddamn thread.
• Life being too short to care about this triviality. Have a beer on me, it's Friday.

 

[nine4gmc]

Werd^

 

[rust buster]

Thank you for your contributions Pipster, although I can't say that those two pictures changed my life in any way, until now. The owner wanted attention for his pixels, and now we know the kind of person attached to that hand. Your reply did not warrant the belligerence of his insolence.
Perhaps if the owner cared to exert the control over his work he's entitled to, he could have put his name, a link to his site, a watermark or simply the (now optional) copyright symbol. As a person in IT you would think he understood that people claiming mine-mine-mine-glory-to-ME-from-all-instantiations! to 1's and 0's will go the way of other failed ideologies (like prohibition), rather than claim it is some kind of enlightenment. Especially when the original document was freely available on the web with no apparent attribution (how do we know HE really owns it at all? Does it say so on the document? Or is it just on his site?).

And Pipster, you are completely correct in stating that TGJ is not legally responsible for the postings of it's members (the same goes for all social networking sites operating under US law). If it was, any number of trolls could have forums and social networks shut down by posting illegal materials.

I'd like to ask the new member and owner of that glorious man hand to be open minded and open hearted about fair use on the interwebs, especially in light of

• The purpose of the use (for inspiration, no one took credit for your work)
• The nature of the pictures (used in a positive light and not offensive)
• The amount and portion of the work used
• The affect on the potential market value for the work
• The fact that the link to the original document's location, providing credit, was already supplied to the same g*ddamn thread.
• Life being too short to care about this triviality. Have a beer on me, it's Friday.

Perfectly stated!

 

[gapfast]

Pipster.....you should be ashamed of yourself

 

[alan camby]

Post 181 and 184 needs to be in the WTF thread for everyone to enjoy.

Seems this guy joined the forum to derail this thread. Is he serious? A few days late for April fools day.

 

[brianpgriset]

To make this thread helpful again, my ebay cx racing oil cooler is still running with no leaks, now 8 running hours since install.

Thought I would mention for those curious since one of the other ones failed.

 

[All]

Could success or failure depend on temperature and vibration?

Alan's CXR cooler failed on a siamesed cylinder IR TS7 style pump.

What kind of pump do you have, brianpgriset?

I was wondering if perhaps a V cylinder pump has less heat soak in the head, since the first and second stages are separate and air cooled between them, versus a siamiesed cylinder style where the first and second stages pumping friction and air compression soak the same head into the outlet copper, creating higher inlet temps into the aftermarket aftercooler?

I was also wondering if smoother operating pumps with less vibration could be a contributing factor of an aftermarket aftercooler's survivability?

Vehicles jiggle and vibrate too, but in vehicles, the oil cooler is usually not coupled with the engine, since the engine is separated from the vehicle by motor mounts. And car engines are generally smoother running than compressor pumps. Also, could the cyclical frequency of a compressor pump's vibration fall outside the range contemplated by what a vehicle designer considers a suspended car to impart through the radiator support in sporadic spurts jiggling down the road?

I've been looking at various aftercooler possibilities for the compressor, and these are some of the questions that came to mind about the use of automotive oil coolers in this application.

 

[brianpgriset]

So I got my setup all done. I ran it just enough to fill up the tank last night but it is definatly effective. I got a good bit of water out of the drip leg. Once i get a chance to run it in more I'll post up the results. Hopefully it doesnt break.

Could success or failure depend on temperature and vibration?

Alan's CXR cooler failed on a siamesed cylinder IR TS7 style pump.

What kind of pump do you have, brianpgriset?

I was wondering if perhaps a V cylinder pump has less heat soak in the head, since the first and second stages are separate and air cooled between them, versus a siamiesed cylinder style where the first and second stages pumping friction and air compression soak the same head into the outlet copper, creating higher inlet temps into the aftermarket aftercooler?

I was also wondering if smoother operating pumps with less vibration could be a contributing factor of an aftermarket aftercooler's survivability?

Vehicles jiggle and vibrate too, but in vehicles, the oil cooler is usually not coupled with the engine, since the engine is separated from the vehicle by motor mounts. And car engines are generally smoother running than compressor pumps. Also, could the cyclical frequency of a compressor pump's vibration fall outside the range contemplated by what a vehicle designer considers a suspended car to impart through the radiator support in sporadic spurts jiggling down the road?

I've been looking at various aftercooler possibilities for the compressor, and these are some of the questions that came to mind about the use of automotive oil coolers in this application.

I think the difference may lie in two stage discharge temps (250) vs single stage discharge temps (350)

 

[All]

Droooooooool

I don't think posting the pic twice was really necessary brianpgriset. Just once hurts enough. But no, you posted two angles... that's like a forward hand, and back hand slap before bringing your arm to rest!

Wow, what an incredible set up... not just the Quincy 325 pump and Baldor motor... but all the additions you've made, including the hour meter and the large face dial gauge, and of course, the plumbing to the aftercooler.

I've seen these pics before, but somehow, their coolness factor never really sunk in until just now. Thanks for posting.

I hadn't realized the TS7 was a single stage pump. I always assumed it was two stage, because it was rated for 24-25 cfm. The TS7 pump is discontinued at Grainger, even as a replacement/repair, so I wonder how these pumps fair for longevity.

On the other hand, the single stage twin cylinder 2HP cast iron Campbell Hausfeld pumps sold under a dozen brand names such as Speedaire, CH Extreme, Sears (circa 1960's and '70's) Montgomery Wards (60's, 70's, early 80's), etc are STILL available today after all these decades of the same basic design. The cooling flutes on the cylinder block casting have changed from diagonal to straight, and the cooling flutes on the aluminum head cap have changed correspondingly, but the rebuild kit for these pumps is all the same. They only put out about between 6 to 8 cfm, but their design endures.

So I wonder what happened to the TS7 design? I wonder if it is uniquely hotter than most, and if that is why Alan (the creator of yet another work of art in compressor installations) had trouble with his first aftercooler?

I've noticed something about the discharge lines of the ABAC pumps (BelAire, US General) and some other HF pumps not made by ABAC... they have fluted RADIATOR discharge assemblies. The hot output line is not a bare copper tube... it is actually a formed casting, in some pumps aluminum, in other pumps cast iron, that extends between 5 to 8 inches downward off the pump head discharge port, and then the copper discharge tube is connected to the bottom of this radiator. I thought this was interesting, and while I have seen these finned appurtenances hanging off of various compressor pumps for many years, their purpose never really sunk in until the inspiration of this thread led me to think about aftercoolers.

 

[pipsters]

Especially when the original document was freely available on the web with no apparent attribution (how do we know HE really owns it at all? Does it say so on the document? Or is it just on his site?).

You're absolutely right. He (assuming he is the "Doc Elliot" referenced on this page) also claims authorship of a copyrighted Ford document that has been scanned in.

If I saw someone post something of mine and use it to learn something I'd actually be pretty happy...

 

[All]

Looks like a cast iron tea pot took umbrage with the kettle on the same stove.

 

[brianpgriset]

Another update. 15 running hours since install and no issues.

 

[DR Garage]

I know this is an old thread but it provided me some good info.
After reviewing what was available for free/ cheap to me I came up w/ a concept for an aftercooler that I'd like some feedback on.
I just bought a 3.7 HP, 155 psi, 60 Gal Kobalt compressor to mostly do sanding and painting with.
On first run I saw that the tank temps were way high and water separators/ filters would likely be challenged.
I'm planning to change the pump outlet from 3/8" to 1/2" and run that to two parallel 3/4" x 4' runs of fin pipe with a long water capture run and drain. I can put a fan on it if I must.
What do folks think? It seems that it will A. Slow the air down and B. Give it a means to dump much of the heat.
Worthwhile? I'm still looking at $30 in fittings even though I have the fin pipe and straight 3/4" tubing. I'm planning to run a 1/2" IR filter/ water separator at the tank outlet and for painting, add 2 stages of Balston coalescing filters (which I have but are too good to use as primary filters). I may also have a large Balston desiccant filter but it is old and need to call Balston to see if it can be used and what is needed to recharge it.


Thanks,

D

 

[brianpgriset]

I know this is an old thread but it provided me some good info.
After reviewing what was available for free/ cheap to me I came up w/ a concept for an aftercooler that I'd like some feedback on.
I just bought a 3.7 HP, 155 psi, 60 Gal Kobalt compressor to mostly do sanding and painting with.
On first run I saw that the tank temps were way high and water separators/ filters would likely be challenged.
I'm planning to change the pump outlet from 3/8" to 1/2" and run that to two parallel 3/4" x 4' runs of fin pipe with a long water capture run and drain. I can put a fan on it if I must.
What do folks think? It seems that it will A. Slow the air down and B. Give it a means to dump much of the heat.
Worthwhile? I'm still looking at $30 in fittings even though I have the fin pipe and straight 3/4" tubing. I'm planning to run a 1/2" IR filter/ water separator at the tank outlet and for painting, add 2 stages of Balston coalescing filters (which I have but are too good to use as primary filters). I may also have a large Balston desiccant filter but it is old and need to call Balston to see if it can be used and what is needed to recharge it.


Thanks,

D

I think you'll get much better results moving air over the finned tubes.

 

[AP514]

Well, this is a great Thread....(except for the guy who thinks he is the Franzonator-same type of person thinking they own everything they say or do)

a few questions

1) Well Im wondering if anyone ever used the BM oil cooler ?
2) any update on the run time for your CX cooler ?

 

[brianpgriset]

2) any update on the run time for your CX cooler ?

Over 50 hours now, no leaks.