Compressor after cooler

[mark52621]

After I get my corn picked I'll figure out how to post pics. Then I'll do a rebuild thread for my qr 350. It started as a clean up job then went quickly downhill. I got to know that dam compressor, and my local quincy dealer, very well.

As for the temps close to ambient you can get, below you can't. Think of it like a refrigerator. If its set at 40 degrees, no matter how long you wait your beer won't cool down to 35.

It will eventually hit 40.

And would still be good at 45.

I might even drink it at 50.

If thirsty maybe 55.



mmmmm beer

 

[calpyro]

Unless you are dropping the temps below ambient, you really aren't gaining much by having a cooler in the system beside moisture being removed earlier in the system. Aftercoolers with a good fan has the potential to drop temps below ambient depending on your tank size and CFM being used.



Hello all,

You don't necessary need to lower the temperature of the air out of the after cooler to ambient temperature. The after cooler works well because the dew point of compressed air is raised under pressure.
As an example: If at your location, the source air has a dew point at 50 degrees F, the same air compressed to 100 PSI has a dew point of 100 degrees F.

Here is a good article that explains the relationship of dew point and pressure. see the Appendix 3 Dew Point Conversion Chart. http://www.cagi.org/pdfs/cagiairdryingselectionguide.pdf

 

[thebeekeeper1]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I was surprised to learn how much cooler a compressor runs just by having a fan blow over it. Quick, cheap, easy, and it makes a huge difference in run temp.

 

[AP514]

I totally Agree....this intercooler pulls alot of water out Before it hits my tank....

My Fan turning at 2600RPM and over 1100CFM @ zero back pressure ( I figured my FANs CFM at around 700CFM blowing thru my cooler)

 

[Lu-Max]

Planning to add an after cooler to my new compressor, then a tsunami water separator at the low point in the tank return line. This should keep the majority of the water from ever making it into the tank in the first place. Maybe add a pneumatic auto-drain to the tank bottom, should keep everything very dry and corrosion free.

 

[Ferrino]

I'm looking to put a B&M cooler on my single-stage compressor and was thinking of mounting it separately from the air compressor (both because of space restrictions and to isolate it from vibration of the compressor). I would therefore need flexible lines to connect it to the pump/tank.

What type of flexible hose would I need to cope with the temps coming out of the compressor? Would something like this braided hose be OK? The manufacturer told me it's rated to 250F. That is probably too low, right?

http://autoplicity.com/2092612-viair-24in-by-38in-ss-leader-hose-38in-f-to-38-m-np?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_content=2092612NOFITMENT&utm_campaign=GSNOFITMENT&gclid=CJ-vyMnLwcQCFReTfgod5IYAew

 

[tonycastec]

Some of those braided hoses are very stiff.If you get an extra long one and 'loop' it -that many be an unintentional condensation trap.

 

[Ferrino]

Yeah, I'm going to stick with soft copper pipe. Something I'm not clear on is powering a 230v fan via the pressure switch on the compressor. Some suggested the additional load might be a problem? What's the best way to hook up the fan so it is in synch with the compressor? Thanks.

 

[Mr.GrinchSD]

Central Pneumatic 2 stage 5HP with aftercooler

[/IMG]

 

[Chadwilliam1]

I am going to have to start working on my condenser.

Looks like A B&M cooler and this fan http://www.onlinecomponents.com/ebm-papst-w2e250hj3201.html?p=12104374 are my best options. My dad told me he has a few 240V fans in his shed I need to check out. I have one of the IR 18 CFM single stage compressors the heads faces extreme heat. I want to mount it in a way to cool the head to.

Are you guys putting check valves in if so where at?

 

[Mr.GrinchSD]

I am going to have to start working on my condenser.

Looks like A B&M cooler and this fan http://www.onlinecomponents.com/ebm-papst-w2e250hj3201.html?p=12104374 are my best options. My dad told me he has a few 240V fans in his shed I need to check out. I have one of the IR 18 CFM single stage compressors the heads faces extreme heat. I want to mount it in a way to cool the head to.

Are you guys putting check valves in if so where at?

I did not add any more check valves I just use the stock one on the tank. If I would have mounted a fan onto mine it would of been a bit over kill. I have ran my Comp for an hour straight and the bottom of the B&M cooler never even gets warm the top does get hot but that cooler does a very good job dispersing heat (in my opinion a fan is not necessary) NOTE maybe one of the reason I don't have a heat problem is because I have a 2 stage and it also has that finned cooler but I am positive you will still be fine with a single stage just mounting the cooler on the pump/motor guard. Also I have since changed my moisture trap I am no longer using the Harbor Freight filter and it catches a very good amount of water. When I drain my tank I get VERY little if any water coming out. These little DIY after coolers do a very good job.

Thanks Roman
UG-Studio's

 

[AP514]

I am going to have to start working on my condenser.

Looks like A B&M cooler and this fan http://www.onlinecomponents.com/ebm-papst-w2e250hj3201.html?p=12104374 are my best options. My dad told me he has a few 240V fans in his shed I need to check out. I have one of the IR 18 CFM single stage compressors the heads faces extreme heat. I want to mount it in a way to cool the head to.

Are you guys putting check valves in if so where at?

I just used the regular check valve that came with the Tank......the only thing you will note is the LONGER HISS after the compressor shuts off/unloads
(this is due to larger volume of air from Cooler and longer lines as unloader valve bleeds air off for next compressor start up)

 

[InterpreDemon]

Agree on no fans required, just the pump flywheel/fan. On my rig the two turns of copper alone take the temp from "blistering" to "touchable" at the heat exchanger input, absolutely cold at the H/E output with the fans running and not noticeably warmer with them off, so IMO the flywheel fan will be plenty.

 

[Lu-Max]

I just finished installing my QT-54 today.

Also, the Tsunami drain for the aftercooler. Not pictured is the fan shroud that I built for the EBM-Papst fan to AKG cooler:

 

[pcmeiners]

"An intercooler is between stages of compression in the compressor. These are the finned pipes between pistons on two stage compressors. They drop air temperature some but not enough to remove moisture.

An aftercooler can be before or after the tank, but is always after and separate from the compressor."

Not true, my INTERCOOLER (not aftercooler) drops out a lot of water, all depends on design. A primary function of an intercooler is to lower air temp, making air more dense before it hits the next stage in a compressor, which lowers operating cost.

DIY compressor Intercooler…
Intercooler between the first and second stage, consisting of an Allison DB-1290 (24.0 x 19.0 x 1.5 Overall size), with two coalescent filters (all 1” piping); cooler is mounted in front of the belt guard. The intercooler cools the air from the first stage (approx 275° F ) to ambient room temperature, resulting in roughly 15-20% more efficiency as the air is denser entering the second stage, and roughly a 50% moisture drop out. Two coalescent filters where installed just below the Allison cooler, the second small filter was installed in case the main water filter’s automatic drain fails, as water entering the second stage could cause severe damage; on a low humidity day (37% for summer in NYC is low), 10 minutes running (timed), approx. 1/2 cup of water/oil drops out; on a high humidity day over 1 cup will drop out in that time. Allison cooler picked up on Ebay for $40.00 delivered (I was lucky); most of the filters/valve/gauges ect. purchased on Ebay.

Shows DB1290 intercooler and auto drains...

http://s852.photobucket.com/user/pcmeiners/media/DSC_00640001.jpg.html

Used as an aftercooler off the second stage, this unit would drop the temperature of the air entering the receiver to ambeint temperature, dropping most of the moisture out. Again, some sort of automatic water removal would be needed, as extended compressor use with a cooler such as this would produce far more water than normal. Approx water drop out on a humid summer day with extended use (NYC in July), such as car painting about 1 gallon.
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/DB-1290.html

 

[Lu-Max]

The intercooler on my QT-54 above is the finned tubing between stage 1 and 2, it has no provision for moisture removal. The temperature drop across my aftercooler is huge (>150 degrees F), and the Tsunami drain removes the majority of the water from the compressor line prior to it ever entering the tank. There is also an automatic (pneumatic) tank drain on the bottom of the tank to remove any condensate that the upper Tsunami separator misses.

 

[AP514]

nice

 

[motoguy]

Thread revival. I have the same 5hp 2 stage HF compressor as MrGrinchSD. I also have the HF refrigerated air dryer. Nothing is hooked up yet, no plumbing done. Looking for ideas now. Will be powering a CNC plasma table, CNC mill, blast cabinet, powder coater, and hose reel (not at the same time, obviously). Will one of these after coolers (ala MrGrinchSD) be a good value (worth the time and effort), or should I just let the refrigerated dryer do the work?

My compressor, at 15cfm, is already borderline. I read above that an after cooler will reduce cfm. If true, I am hesitant to do it.

 

[HAP]

"An intercooler is between stages of compression in the compressor. These are the finned pipes between pistons on two stage compressors. They drop air temperature some but not enough to remove moisture.

An aftercooler can be before or after the tank, but is always after and separate from the compressor."

Not true, my INTERCOOLER (not aftercooler) drops out a lot of water, all depends on design. A primary function of an intercooler is to lower air temp, making air more dense before it hits the next stage in a compressor, which lowers operating cost.

DIY compressor Intercooler…
Intercooler between the first and second stage, consisting of an Allison DB-1290 (24.0 x 19.0 x 1.5 Overall size), with two coalescent filters (all 1” piping); cooler is mounted in front of the belt guard. The intercooler cools the air from the first stage (approx 275° F ) to ambient room temperature, resulting in roughly 15-20% more efficiency as the air is denser entering the second stage, and roughly a 50% moisture drop out. Two coalescent filters where installed just below the Allison cooler, the second small filter was installed in case the main water filter’s automatic drain fails, as water entering the second stage could cause severe damage; on a low humidity day (37% for summer in NYC is low), 10 minutes running (timed), approx. 1/2 cup of water/oil drops out; on a high humidity day over 1 cup will drop out in that time. Allison cooler picked up on Ebay for $40.00 delivered (I was lucky); most of the filters/valve/gauges ect. purchased on Ebay.

Shows DB1290 intercooler and auto drains...

http://s852.photobucket.com/user/pcmeiners/media/DSC_00640001.jpg.html

Used as an aftercooler off the second stage, this unit would drop the temperature of the air entering the receiver to ambeint temperature, dropping most of the moisture out. Again, some sort of automatic water removal would be needed, as extended compressor use with a cooler such as this would produce far more water than normal. Approx water drop out on a humid summer day with extended use (NYC in July), such as car painting about 1 gallon.
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/DB-1290.html

PC, from my experience, you may encounter a joint failure here and there if that is regular soft solder. The temp and vibrations are hard on regular solder. If silver solder, then you are probably fine.

Cool set-up!
R,
HAP

 

[pcmeiners]

"My compressor, at 15cfm, is already borderline. I read above that an after cooler will reduce cfm. If true, I am hesitant to do it."

If your using a heat exchanger with 1/4"-1/2" tubing you get reduced cfm. Works just like a garden hose, get the cheap hose 3/8-1/2", you get far less output then 1" hose. The DB1290 I used provides basically no restriction, all piping is 1".

"If silver solder, then you are probably fine."...that is what I use.

 

[HAP]

Word!

 

[VonMoldy]

How do I test the amount of moisture in my air lines?
I live in Utah and the air is very dry here would an aftercooler be worth it on my husky 60 gallon 3.5hp compressor?

 

[pcmeiners]

"I live in Utah and the air is very dry here would an aftercooler be worth it on my husky 60 gallon 3.5hp compressor? "
Good question, as you stated moisture would not be an issue, cooler air is denser, more efficient, so less horse power would be needed if you have an aftercooler, but how much you would save is the question. I have an INTERcooler on my compressor which saves around >12%, not sure how much an aftercooler saves, but it has to be less.

 

[VonMoldy]

"I live in Utah and the air is very dry here would an aftercooler be worth it on my husky 60 gallon 3.5hp compressor? "
Good question, as you stated moisture would not be an issue, cooler air is denser, more efficient, so less horse power would be needed if you have an aftercooler, but how much you would save is the question. I have an INTERcooler on my compressor which saves around >12%, not sure how much an aftercooler saves, but it has to be less.

What led me to look this up is seeing the plain copper pipe from the compressor to the tank and noticing how hot it got and figured it must be better to have some cooling on it. I guess I assumed that having the air into the tank cooler would be better for the pump and possibly more efficient so I can run my DA longer.

 

[pcmeiners]

I am sure you would get at least 5% savings. Does not sound like much but if you use a lot of air, it would add up.

 

[Ken Sungela]

Has anyone used a setup like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/151287413307?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Using a 12 v power supply and a 220V/12V relay so it starts when the compressor motor starts. One question would be if it could hold the pressure.

 

[motofool33]

Has anyone used a setup like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/151287413307?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Using a 12 v power supply and a 220V/12V relay so it starts when the compressor motor starts. One question would be if it could hold the pressure.

i would say its not beefy enough for me, i thought about using a 12v radiator rad i had from an import car laying around but i didn't wanna mess with wiring in power supplies and converters

i went with a hayden 1260 cooler, and a 1500cfm 230volt fan off ebay.

 

[motoguy]

Ordered my Hayden 1290 the other day. It should be here tomorrow. I need to get a fan on the way for it. Looking forward to getting it installed!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[Teter09]

I wasn't sure if I should add to this thread or start my own, but here is the end result,

EBMpabst Axial fan turning at 2200CFM, AKG Aftercooler in a cheap Steel Electrical enclosure I found (and Painted).

View media item 53349
View media item 53350
I'm still getting the fittings to connect it in, but I'm having issues with one.

Sorry that it is sideways!
View media item 53351
The silver nut is connecting the copper pipe to my tank. I was thinking that it was a 5/8 flanged copper pipe fitting, but the thread is off and I'm not sure what type of connector to use. The copper pipe is 5/8 OD, and that nut matches up to an 18 inch thread gauge I have. OD of the threads is .870...roughly. Can anyone provide some insight?

 

[motofool33]

My hayden 1260 mount progress, waiting for fan to show up before I finish it off.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[LG63]

The copper pipe is 5/8 OD, and that nut matches up to an 18 inch thread gauge I have. OD of the threads is .870...roughly. Can anyone provide some insight?

Looks like inverted flare

 

[AP514]

UPDATE..My cooler cracked.. the crack is about 3 fins in from the lower NPT fitting(See picks of install above #237)....not sure if it was due to my over torque'n the pipe on install(thats what the B&M guys said). They said I did not hold the NPT nut good enough and the pipe install stressed the weilds...give'n me the failure....not sure if that is or is not the case...So Im getting another (same) cooler from them and we will see if this one fails too...

 

[nine4gmc]

Make sure it didn't fail from vibration too.

 

[dataman1100]

Let me know how the Hayden 1260 works for you. I am thinking of using the same or maybe the 1290.

 

[Finky198]

I was also looking at the Hayden 1290 for an IR 2475n but after hearing all of the troubles Im wondering if it's even worth the headache as I don't have water issue with our existing setup

 

[dschmit]

Do these fans you guys are using work beter as a pusher or puller?

 

[motofool33]

Do these fans you guys are using work beter as a pusher or puller?

i think all fans work better pushing, but you'd have to spec each model number out for that. i went for high cfm, 220v and size large enough to cover most of the cooler.

 

[Finky198]

I have this 1/2"copper in a double spiraled loop with fins

which would probably work great, but I really don't know If I need to even bother. It's a IR2475 80gal with a 40gal surge tank. We get very little water in our system as it sit now. Maybe a 8oz of water a day during hard use out of the main tank, and less then 1oz at the sharpe filter which is mount down stream off 18' of 1" black iron pipe

The big question is should I even bother with the headache of plumbing all of this in? The compressor came with a factory intercooler which works but is probably lacking.

Options or ideas....

 

[InterpreDemon]

Looks like inverted flare

Ditto

 

[72Anthony]

I have this 1/2"copper in a double spiraled loop with fins

which would probably work great, but I really don't know If I need to even bother. It's a IR2475 80gal with a 40gal surge tank. We get very little water in our system as it sit now. Maybe a 8oz of water a day during hard use out of the main tank, and less then 1oz at the sharpe filter which is mount down stream off 18' of 1" black iron pipe

The big question is should I even bother with the headache of plumbing all of this in? The compressor came with a factory intercooler which works but is probably lacking.

Options or ideas....

Just curious...where did that come from?