Concrete bid seems high

[ManCave]

Hi Guys,

I have a concrete project with a 5,304 square foot (65.48 sq yards of concrete) main slab that will be poured across 2 days with half being poured the first day and the remainder the second day.

Then there is a patio which is 26.75 square yards that would be poured later after the main slab cures some and after the forms are removed.

The street price for concrete here is $146 per square yard. We will need 65.48 square yards for the main slab. That is $9,560.00 for the concrete. Since it will be colored, that adds another $3,797.00 to the cost or $13,357 in material cost for the main slab. The patio at 26.75 square yards is $3,905 in materials.

So total materials is about $17,263.00 Keep in mind he doesn't pay that as he get's the contractor price on materials.

The bid for labor and materials came in at $31,460.00. That means he has about $14,197.00 in labor built into the bid. There is also the cost of (I presume, wire mesh) and poly that I have't factored in so materials would be slightly higher than my calculation.

I suspect his cost on the concrete is about $1,000 less than street price so really he has labor at about $15,200.00. That seems high. What do you guys think?

 

[The Cobbler]

is there excavation, forming , how far does it have to be wheeled , etc in this quote ?

 

[readhead]

What would you consider reasonable and why?

 

[Stuart in MN]

Hard to say without more details on how much labor (and people) will be required to do the work.

Funny, but no one ever comes here and posts "does this bid seem too low?"

 

[Bottlecapdigger]

You mean cubic yard right? bcd

 

[matt_i]

There are a lot of unknowns. Does he set and strip the forms, is the stone base already there and fully compacted, is there a finishing sealer, what kind of decorative finish (stamped, etc) is applied or is it straight broom finish and tooled joints like a driveway. Can a concrete truck broadcast it all right there out of the back or is a pump truck going to be required. Is he working around a pool or this is in the center of a flat 2 acre field.

Posting some pics would be quite helpful.

 

[ManCave]

Sorry, it's been a long stressful day. Yes, cubic yards.

Excavating will cost $2,500 - $3,000 and it's a different contractor. They will be bringing in a dozer, roller and skid and using laser levels. The area will be within a 1/2 inch of level before the concrete guy gets here to set up his forms.

The concrete truck can back right up to the job. It's in a farm field.

readhead - I didn't know what was reasonable. I was just curious if anyone thought the labor seemed high.

 

[brownbagg]

here, not counting material, its usually $1.50 sq ft to finish.

why not pour everything in one day. 75 yards is just couple hours work

 

[ManCave]

Matt,

Yes he will set and strip the forms. We are not using any stone base. In our area it's not required. We have 20 feet of sand and then a layer of clay and we can do slab on grade without any rock. The base will be fully compacted after the grading. No sealer, no stamping. I will need to find someone else to do the sealer. Its in a large field with full easy access.

There are a lot of unknowns. Does he set and strip the forms, is the stone base already there and fully compacted, is there a finishing sealer, what kind of decorative finish (stamped, etc) is applied or is it straight broom finish and tooled joints like a driveway. Can a concrete truck broadcast it all right there out of the back or is a pump truck going to be required. Is he working around a pool or this is in the center of a flat 2 acre field.

Posting some pics would be quite helpful.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

How much of a discount do contractors get? Strange but when I had concrete work bid and compared it to mine their charge for material was either the same as I got or 5% over. (Some contractars add 5% to materials).
I usually guestimate labor will be 50% (for jobs over 10 yds) to 100% (smaller jobs) of the materials. On the few jobs I hired out (or thought about hiring out) it came out pretty close. Ive never had a job as big as yours though.

 

[Retroman]

The two pours doubles your labor does it have to be done in two pours? I assume this is all truck poured with no line pumps? Colored concrete costs depends on the color there are 3%, 2% and 1% color saturation's any of the 3% colors are the most expensive, less saturation the cheaper the color. Concrete pricing is regional as well on our big bid jobs we can lock in concrete between$82.00 and $86.00 a cubic yard plus tax. On plain gray concrete were between $3.50 to $5.00 bucks per square foot for 4" slabs.

So your getting 7,465 sf poured of colored concrete in two mobilizations for $4.21 PSF that's what we out here would call a smoking deal. plus the wire mesh the forming and the stripping of forms. I think that is a very fair price.

 

[Retroman]

You must also realize if your grade is off a 1/2" over the 7,465 sf it will cost him another 11 yards of concrete. Which he may or may not come back on you since he did not do the grading.

 

[ManCave]

One place is $135 per cubic yard to the public and $116 at the contractor rate.

How much of a discount do contractors get? Strange but when I had concrete work bid and compared it to mine their charge for material was either the same as I got or 5% over. (Some contractars add 5% to materials).
I usually guestimate labor will be 50% (for jobs over 10 yds) to 100% (smaller jobs) of the materials. On the few jobs I hired out (or thought about hiring out) it came out pretty close. Ive never had a job as big as yours though.

 

[ManCave]

He wants to do two pours because he is afraid of it getting away from him if he tries to do it all in one day. I would prefer it all in one day to minimize the chance of color variations in the concrete. Apparently if day 1 is cool and day 2 is really hot it can make the color variance more noticeable than if all poured in the same day. We are going with 2% color. We are hoping we may get a little marbling affect when they power trowel it.

I asked if he could do it all in one day and he wasn't too keen on it. He has been doing this for 40 years and I prefer to go with his recommendation and not push him too hard. He is a nice guy and he is doing the job on short notice which I really appreciate, too.

As for pricing, one plant is at $135 to the public and one is at $146. The more expensive place that we are going with has the coloring in barrels. I believe the color may be computer measured when added to the concrete. I believe contractor price may be about $10 a yard less.

Thanks for letting me know the price is reasonable. I don't begrudge anyone making a fair wage. On the face of it, me not knowing anything different, it seemed high but good to know it's in line with what it should be.

The two pours doubles your labor does it have to be done in two pours? I assume this is all truck poured with no line pumps? Colored concrete costs depends on the color there are 3%, 2% and 1% color saturation's any of the 3% colors are the most expensive, less saturation the cheaper the color. Concrete pricing is regional as well on our big bid jobs we can lock in concrete between$82.00 and $86.00 a cubic yard plus tax. On plain gray concrete were between $3.50 to $5.00 bucks per square foot for 4" slabs.

So your getting 7,465 sf poured of colored concrete in two mobilizations for $4.21 PSF that's what we out here would call a smoking deal. plus the wire mesh the forming and the stripping of forms. I think that is a very fair price.

 

[Daedalus]

I just replaced my old cracked driveway. About 1700 square feet, maybe 23 or 24 yards. Demo was just over $4k. New driveway was about $10k. No special colors or shapes, just sloped it toward the drain or the street. I think it was an OK price for this area, but I can say they screwed up a couple things that I'm really not happy with. Hint: Make sure they put in control joints on any sharp inside corners.

 

[akcooper9]

So your getting 7,465 sf poured of colored concrete in two mobilizations for $4.21 PSF that's what we out here would call a smoking deal. plus the wire mesh the forming and the stripping of forms. I think that is a very fair price.

I agree. 4.21 a square is a great price.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

To the OP....if your thinking you should be able to get a better price, my suggestion would be:

1. Ask the contractor if that's the best price he can offer. Particularly ask him if he can do it in one pour to save you money.

2. Get another quote from a different contractor.

Phil

 

[Milton Shaw]

The reason he gives for two pours is a very good reason. I had more than one concrete job get away from me and if he thinks that's a problem, it is. I ended up with a very rough section of driveway and set of steps that needed to be ground after it dried one I fixed (stairs) one I lived with. I tried to do it myself with friends and learned my lesson the second time to use people with stamina and used to the work to get a driveway done later. It's a lot of money but it's a one time expense and if done wrong a big disaster. Bite the bullet would be my suggestion..

 

[ConCretin]

There is also the cost of (I presume, wire mesh) and poly that I have't factored in so materials would be slightly higher than my calculation.

Please confirm the details such as reinforcing and vapor barrier and make sure they are included in the proposal/contract. Not only are the details vital to a quality slab, they obviously impact cost.

If we were doing three placements totaling 7,500 sf (I guessed on the apron), the cost to place and finish alone would be over $7,500. Add forming, vapor barrier, reinforcing (hopefully), pumps, etc and that could easily double.

I applaud the contractors realistic assessment of his abilities in doing the 5000 sf in two placements but it does add to the cost especially if pumped.

 

[sleek98]

They did my driveway/patio/front walk over 3 days, total sq ft was around 4500, I think it came on 7 or 8 different trucks. It was in the mid 90s when they did it last year. You cannot tell the difference where they did one section to the other. I was worried about the color difference but it turned out to not be an issue.

I was also charged 5 a sq foot installed. I would say the 4.21 is not bad install if they are taking it from bare dirt to finished concrete.

 

[LXCam]

It's certainly not the best price. But if he does you an excellent job you got your monies worth. Since he has his reasons for doing it in two pours, I wouldn't argue it he obviously knows how much detail work he's capable of finishing.

 

[Falcon67]

Iif I figure right, that's $5.67 sq/ft. Neighbor just poured for a shop, $7 sq/ft for flat work is the going rate here.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If the cost is too high, take the coloring out of the equation and save yourself $4K.

 

[n20junkie]

Concrete here goes for $135 a yard. I paid 300 ish a yard to get the material and it into the form with an burnished finish.

I did all the prep work and set/tied all the rebar. Thats not included in the 300.

If your going by sq/ft 6” thick 5k mix, I also paid about $7 sq/ft.

Iif I figure right, that's $5.67 sq/ft. Neighbor just poured for a shop, $7 sq/ft for flat work is the going rate here.

 

[TurnipTruck]

I have a quote for $9/sqft in Alaska. All I have to do is bury the conduit and drains.
40x60, thick spots for hoist, one trench drain, J bolts, rebar, mesh, poly, and edge foam.

 

[cullen]

I paid $9/sq. ft here. I did no prep though, the contractors did it all. It was the best price I could find.

 

[nmk_61802]

General rule of thumb for farmed out work that has high material cost, is materials x2 covers labor & materials. As a broad stroke, this usually gets you in the ball park. So for your instance he does not seem that far off.

FYI, I paid $11.5/ sq. ft here for a full depth spread foundation and slab, green site to frame ready. Also the best price I could find.

 

[ManCave]

Thanks guys. All of the opinions and info really helped. I just called him and gave him the go ahead. I did ask that he provide all the details in an updated quote as the original quote didn't mention any mesh. I assumed wire mesh but his original quote didn't include reinforcing. He is adding the fiber mesh at no extra charge. So it will be the colored concrete, 6 mil poly under the slab, fiber mesh reinforcing mixed in the concrete, power troweled and then saw cut to prevent cracks traveling.

 

[TractorJeff]

Oh Heaven forbid!
When the rest of the GJ'ers see you are only getting fiber for re-enforcement they will have a SPAZ! They will say You need Rebar and NOT Wire Mesh as no one in their Right Mind (let alone their Left) will accept Wire Mesh!

 

[readhead]

Be absolutely sure the mesh is installed right side up and not backwards.

 

[finn]

How do you guys get prices per square foot without all the input data as to what was done? Concrete is priced by the cubic yard, and I assume finishing is priced by the square foot. The anecdotal references here, in large, omit pad thickness and other details, ie vapor barrier, rebar, mesh, tensile strength, etc to make comparisons relevant.

A 12” thick slab is going to take a heck of a lot more concrete than a 4” slab (3x), but I assume finishing the two slabs will cost roughly the same, unless wheel barrows or pump trucks are involved.

For reference, I had a 4” ~4K psi floor poured last fall in my 960 sf lean to, no vb, wire mesh, wheelbarrow (16’x60’ with one door). Price was $5k, including removal of 4” of gravel to establish proper pad height.

I have no idea if that was a good price, but i’m glad it’s done.

 

[Falcon67]

>How do you guys get prices per square foot without all the input data as to what was done?

Doesn't matter. My foundation was $4800 turn key. 960 sq/ft = $5/sq ft. Minimum specs for foundation per code (count and size of bar, grid spacing, footers, etc) and my spec for grade beams. We don't typically do insulation, vapor barrier and such on "flat work" - driveways and garage type slabs. House is a whole different deal. Lots of garage work here is slab on grade without even any kind of footer. Somewhere else you might need 24" of footer.

Next year neighbor built a house and had a lot of driveway pour. Forms, bar, work, etc was priced to him at $5 sq/ft. New neighbor is putting up a metal building, so I'd assume he gave the contractor the building requirements and was quoted a finished product.

Also, concrete might be $150/yard delivered here and $300 where you are. It's like OSB, price varies depending on local demand and other factors.

 

[finn]

>How do you guys get prices per square foot without all the input data as to what was done?

Doesn't matter. My foundation was $4800 turn key. 960 sq/ft = $5/sq ft. Minimum specs for foundation per code (count and size of bar, grid spacing, footers, etc) and my spec for grade beams. We don't typically do insulation, vapor barrier and such on "flat work" - driveways and garage type slabs. House is a whole different deal. Lots of garage work here is slab on grade without even any kind of footer. Somewhere else you might need 24" of footer.

Next year neighbor built a house and had a lot of driveway pour. Forms, bar, work, etc was priced to him at $5 sq/ft. New neighbor is putting up a metal building, so I'd assume he gave the contractor the building requirements and was quoted a finished product.

Also, concrete might be $150/yard delivered here and $300 where you are. It's like OSB, price varies depending on local demand and other factors.

I guess that’s the point. A six inch slab with a foundation is different than a 4 inch thickened slab, which is more than a patio slab on grade, and rebar is more than mesh, which is more than no reinforcement.

Is labor a constant based on square foot coverage?

I doubt it. There has to be some adjustment for technical specs of the pour.

Guys are throwing out numbers without qualification.

Sort of like the old algebra joke: A man drove to Chicago. How long did it take him?